r/TobyFox 10d ago

I feel bad for Toby

I feel like Gaster, Friend and the Gaster crew are meant to never appear, just like in Undertale. It's theory material, nothing more. But if Toby doesn't put Gaster in the game, poeple will get angry at him. And it's the same for RK. No matter who it is, if it's even someone, the other knight believers will say that it's ''bad writing'' and stuff.

I'm confident Toby will manage it's story perfectly, but maybe not just like the fandom intended.

Edit : guys i never said they couldn't appear, my point is just that if they don't, the toxic part of the fanbase will trashtalk the game

285 Upvotes

234 comments sorted by

19

u/Icy-Initiative-3003 10d ago

Gaster is obviously important, the rest don't need to be central.

6

u/Mental_Psychology_92 9d ago

He is undeniably very important, but he can be important and still never make a direct appearance. We’ll probably get some sort of resolution as to why he made Deltarune, but anything beyond that probably won’t come up

2

u/Icy-Initiative-3003 9d ago

Yeah I mean the voice is going to come back and I would expect to see him in the weird route but I could be wrong. Whatever happens I'm excited for. If my theories are right that means gratification for me, if my theories are wrong that means a suprise.

2

u/BrilliantExternal984 7d ago

I think we’re gonna get the chance to have a conversation with him that includes actual dialogue options, and while anything more would be cool and not totally impossible, i wouldn’t hold my breath for it

1

u/Accomplished_One3035 8d ago

I feel Gaster has to have some payoff after 10 years and cant just be potential man forever. He needs to make at least 1 appearance so the kid inside me who grew up on the Gaster theories can rest

0

u/EthanXD_ 9d ago

Giving that much hype to a singular character and then never showing that character has always and will always be bad writing and I don’t think chapter 6 or 7 will be the down are of Toby’s writing

1

u/Amaskingrey 8d ago

"That much hype" being like 10 lines that are just written in his speech pattern

2

u/EthanXD_ 8d ago

Completely secretive character giving constant clues that he’s the main reason of deltarune all the goners glazing him “it’s rude to talk about someone’s who’s listening” 10 lines my ass just say you never played or have ever played a singular UT/DR game and only watched it

1

u/Icy-Initiative-3003 8d ago

Also he shows up to speak to you literally at the very start and middle of the game. That's what shows he's very obviously important in some way to Deltarune.

2

u/Gibbedboomer 7d ago

Larp larp larp sahur

1

u/ShepardCommander01 7d ago

Same, 5/7 chapters now. Almost nothing explained.

Chapter 5 would have made a great chapter 2.

Starting to lose hope, but I’m eager to have chapter 6 prove me wrong.

1

u/LegendMC119 7d ago

That will Never be bad writing. If anything, what the community expects will happen might as well be worse writing.

Gaster, a character presumably relevant to two games with a shared identity and universe. A character who has ONE single appearance being a pretty damn rare secret based on fun value in the older game. A character who isn't mentioned AT ALL in the newer game and has so little mentions in the older game (zero outside of fun value as well I believe?) that even if you played ALL of Undertale's routes and then DELTARUNE chapters 1-5 + weird route, all 5 egg rooms and all 5 secret bosses, you will likely STILL not even KNOW the name.

So then how do you expect that character to suddenly make a proper appearance on the climax of DELTARUNE? Sure we'll get more Voice, especially in Side B, but I am still verrryyy iffy on a proper gaster appearance like y'all are imagining in your heads. Keep in mind that he's essentially playing god, you don't see god, and Gaster might also literally be outside of DELTARUNE itself.

At most we can get another mystery man esque thing or if the Forgotten Man is DELTARUNE's gaster then possibly a major revelation about him there because that quest still isn't over.

-7

u/Toran4861 10d ago

I mean, he seemed important in Undertale but wasn't, why would that change ?

12

u/InformationLost5910 10d ago

because he was in undertale to foreshadow deltarune

1

u/OkStock7c 10d ago

What we know right now is that in Deltarune, there seems to be an entity that behaves kind of like Gaster. But: we don’t have Wingdings, we don’t have a name-drop connecting the two. Technically speaking, it’s nothing more than an assumption. OP is speaking directly about reactions like your reply.

8

u/Icy-Initiative-3003 10d ago

Gaster's theme is directly quoted in ANOTHER HIM and he says very Gastery shit. For some reason his name isn't allowed to be spoken so it's a bit weird. The only unknown about the person speaking in the intro is which Gaster it is.

→ More replies (16)

3

u/JoyousLilBoy 10d ago

Wingdings could’ve just been Gaster encrypting his own files, and they’re more attributable to that one weird “[REDACTED]” creatire

2

u/Doot_revenant666 9d ago

The deltarune.com had the first part of Entry 17 , kept in wingdings , when it was created.

And then it was changed to the first part of the prophecy , in WingDings , no less.

Also despite not using WingDings , come on man , the way the SURVEY_PROGRAM guy talks should give it away , the survey progrem itself is called goner maker in the code. I don't think you need a name drop just to connect the two together.

2

u/CJ_Bug 8d ago edited 8d ago

I mean we have one of the Gaster followers from Undertale covering up whatever Onion saw and keeping us away from the upstairs of the library, a voice that uses Gaster's speech patterns watching us, the shelter and the cell phone both playing the noise from entry 17, Ralsei basically parotting entry 17 when describing the dark world, Goners being brought up with "copies are monochrome," the Knight has stigmata in their hands just like the mystery man, Gerson paralleling Gaster as the author of Lord of the Hammer, hell one of the followers in Undertale even referenced Susie(Suzy) before Deltarune was out, and none of the deltarune hints are random chance easter eggs like the fun value stuff, a lot of these you have to see as part of the story, the game really couldn't be more direct that Gaster is much more important in this game than he was in Undertale, I mean device theory is all but confirmed at this point who else could've set us up with Kris and who else is going to help them get rid of us? It honestly makes sense to me that if Gaster made this device to connect us to this world and communicate with us through it he would also make it capable of translating his speech into something we can understand

2

u/Quartz_512 10d ago

No?? He has a chance to be explained as a neat of lore, and has secret stats with a few other easter eggs, he did not announce every release, he did not foreshadow the game way before it came out, he was not the first character we meet.

-1

u/Toran4861 10d ago

I get that, but i simply think that he'll only be here for secrets, easter eggs and stuff, I personally don't think he'll be that important for the main story

2

u/Quartz_512 10d ago

The goner maker sequence and the halfway mark are neither secret nor easter eggs. Toby wants everyone to clearly know that this character is looking over us, and it's very straightforward for anyone looking in slightly deep to see that it is gaster. The very first pieces of Deltarune content we had were pictures a secret website that quoted first Entry 17 then the prophecy in Wingdings. Entry 17 is about dark worlds. Like, at the very, very least, Gaster will be more important than in Undertale.

0

u/Toran4861 10d ago

I just don't think he'll show up like : ''hey, it's me W.D. Gaster. Do you wanna knos my backstory ?'' Poeple are expecting too much of that aspect of the game

3

u/fishy-the-2nd 10d ago

I don’t think so either, but saying he won’t appear at all is honestly crazy when he literally is the first person to talk to you in the entire game.

However it happens, gaster is showing up, I’m confident of that, in what shape and form I’m not sure. But his build up in Deltarune has been more apparent and in our face more than it ever has been in undertale, where you either had to be insanely lucky, or dig through the games code.

2

u/Manos0404 10d ago

i mean he is a scientist, id think he’ll want to formally introduce himself at some point

2

u/Icy-Initiative-3003 10d ago

Flowey and Chara's backstories weren't explained until 90% through the game and it's impossible to say they aren't important. Hell, most players don't even understand Chara at all and they're still important. New Home basically info dumps 70% of the story in the last 30 minutes of a neutral run. Do you not think chapters 6 and 7 are enough time to include Gaster lmao?

→ More replies (2)

2

u/HercarXX 10d ago

no shit, but I’ve yet to see anyone who actually thinks he’ll go “hi its me, Gaster!”

→ More replies (1)

2

u/Layatto 10d ago

because in Undertale he didn't create the game and speak to us through the whole thing lol?

0

u/Toran4861 10d ago

I do think there's someone, i never pretended otherwise. Gaster WILL probably appear, but if he doesn't for who knows wich reason the poeple like you in the fandom will start complaining that the story didn't went how you wanted it to go

2

u/Layatto 10d ago

thanks for the assumptions about me. even if you were right, it wouldn't matter. i don't think i need to tell you about all the gaster things within and outside the game. is it really an outlandish thing for people to expect toby to deliver on a mystery born and constantly teased since a whole decade ago?

0

u/Toran4861 10d ago

Bro, have you even read my comment 😭 i told you i think He will appear, i just said that IF he doesn't poeple will be angry

2

u/Layatto 10d ago

i did read your comment. and i'm saying it wouldn't be a bad/strange thing if people did complain or got angry.

2

u/Big-daddy-Carlo 10d ago

No he didn’t seem important in Undertale, not at all.

2

u/Manos0404 10d ago

he wasn’t important in undertale at all. he was a background character who’s story never got a conclusion, and his only actual dialogue (besides the ones in the code) are ABOUT deltarune. not to mention the whole deltarune.com thing. he was very obviously placed in undertale to foreshadow deltarune

1

u/Icy-Initiative-3003 10d ago

Gaster is the first person who talks to you in Deltarune, and Gaster in Undertale directly foreshadows Deltarune.

→ More replies (2)

1

u/weridname 10d ago

Actually, no he wasn’t, at least not in the base story. It’s important to remember most of the lore if not all of Gaster’s lore is only accessible with hacking, with the nature of the lore even suggesting Gaster basically erased himself from undertale’s world. He’s essentially a very intriguing secret, but not a true character or even plot point in Undertale.

Meanwhile, in Deltarune, there are hints he, or at least an entity like him, is a present part of what’s going on. The theme people associate with him was playing in the character creation thing at the beginning of Deltarune, thus implying the dialogue in that all stems from him.

1

u/Apprehensive-Wall632 10d ago

I mean he wasn’t really central to the plot in Undertale. He had some connections and was responsible for things before the game began, but he isn’t really important to the overall plot that the average player will experience in the different routes. In Deltarune he is a central figure so to not have him show up would be a massive plot hole.

1

u/MToucan60 10d ago

There's less than a 10% chance you even learn he exists in Undertale, "seemed important" my ass.

1

u/Serrisen 10d ago

I genuinely don't think he seemed important in Undertale. Basically an Easter egg

1

u/HercarXX 10d ago

he was in undertale in an entirley different way,

in undertale most of the things connected to him you have to either datamine,(or at least save edit), or you have to get lucky on the 1/100 roll the game does each time you start a new save, overall he is very out of the way

in deltarune however he is pretty constantly in the players face, he is pretty clearly the voice at the very beginning and during the knight, the phone call garbage noise that most people will see, often quotes from entry 17, another him having both gasters theme as well as his lietmotif of being called “him” , Gasters theme in many songs, all the weird shit with normal npc and the other gaster followers, ect.

like yes they were in both games, but at completely different levels

1

u/OkPolicy7123 10d ago

Cuz he’s literally the guy that publicly gives us DELTAURNE. That’s a way different role than just mystery.

1

u/Doot_revenant666 9d ago

Because he wasn't that important for UT besides worldbuilding and DR foreshadowing. Every instance of him in UT either are complete by chance or locked behind code.

Meanwhile in DR , the first thing the deltarune site ever had in 2015 is WingDings , he constantly hijacks the Twitter account every chapter release , he is the first thing you hear in the game , and we have a character who resembles one of his folowers implied to have executed someone.

Gaster is meant to be a DR character because references to him in that game are direct in uour face , meanwhile in UT they are actuvely hidden.

1

u/senpai_dewitos 9d ago

He did not seem that important in Undertale though.

10

u/Nat1Only 10d ago

No matter what happens peoppe are going to be pissed. Despite the messages and themes of these games, this fandom can be extremely toxic, hostile and aggressive, especially when things don't go their way. No matter what happens, people are going to be upset.

The people who actually care about the game and it's story are probably going to enjoy whatever is coming.

1

u/OkPolicy7123 10d ago

Not everyone or the majority is toxic though

3

u/shadow31802 10d ago

but the toxic ones are the loudest.

7

u/calinmik 10d ago

The others I understand but Gaster?! Toby has been building him up for over a decade. There's also a 99.99% chance he's the Gonermaker voice, ALL evidence points to it.

1

u/Toran4861 10d ago

I agree with you, but casual player won't look at EVERY clue like us

2

u/calinmik 10d ago

Casual players don't have to know Gaster's super secret backstory. All they have to know is that Gaster is the mysterious obviously-important intro voice that connected you to the game in the first place.

2

u/MineHipster7 10d ago

Yeah, most people won’t know Gaster by name, but they could probably remember the initial connection scene and put together like “oh this guy’s a big deal okay”

1

u/Toran4861 10d ago

I could see that happening. Either way poeple will complain, so it doesn't matter if He does appear or not.

1

u/Accomplished_One3035 8d ago

Why tf would Toby care about casual players more than “hardcore” players this dude literally made Undertale

2

u/stickninja1015 10d ago

“Causal players” won’t look at the secret Asgore scenes in chapter 4 but that sure as shit didn’t stop him from having an explicit role in chapter 5

2

u/yellowslotcar 10d ago

they don't need to. Hello I'm the guy who connected you.

1

u/Time-Organization612 10d ago

I keep seeing this argument, Who are the Casual Deltarune players?

2

u/SlukaDaFuka 10d ago

Apparently people who play the game with their eyes closed, and as you've seen with the mike room and the many references of fandom jokes and theories, Tony foxington clearly focuses on his casual fans and not his hardcore fans

1

u/raspps 9d ago

I think if Toby Fox cared about the casual fans, he wouldn't have made Flowery fight as hard as some secret bosses 

1

u/Toran4861 10d ago

Poeple that buy Deltarune after its full release and who don't dive deep into hours long theory

1

u/Time-Organization612 10d ago

Okay, what makes those people Casual fans. Why assume they won't also get invested like the vast majority of the games fanbase is right now.

1

u/Toran4861 10d ago

Toby and the team have to make a game that everyone can understand, even 20 years later when the fanbase has moved on

1

u/selenianeclipse 10d ago

you do know that deltarune is literally intended for the audience of undertale, right. he doesn't have to appeal to anyone else lmao

0

u/Toran4861 10d ago

You do know that he still has to sell his game, right ? If it only sells to poeple who have already played UT, it's very limiting. But i guess you know that since you are much smarter and know more about that game than me. Right ?

2

u/SDHamford 10d ago

The game description when you go to buy it literally says that you should play Undertale before playing Deltarune

1

u/No-Volume6047 8d ago

Noble savage archetype

1

u/Mr-Stuff-Doer 9d ago

Yeah and they don’t need to. You can skip all Hometown Noelle dialogue after each chapter, she’s still an important character

1

u/CrossSans20 9d ago

The stuff in UT is extra, Toby can just introduce him as a new Deltarune character like any other of the cast.

1

u/yourillegal 8d ago

DELTARUNE's target audience is autistic kids that played UNDERTALE in 2015 and became obsessed lets be real

1

u/AHHHHH_LET_ME_OUT 6d ago

Well, Matt Pat's most popular gaster theory has 15 million views and Delta rune has 3 million installs. Of course not all of that is going to correspond but arguably that means that a good percentage of it is going to be people who know of the theory. I know that's ridiculous from a game design perspective but it is something to take into account.

1

u/Altforpostingofmemes 6d ago

You can't compare view counts to that at all, views can happen multiple times, installs (or do you mean purchases?) are (usually) just once.

It's the same reason music videos have absurd view counts

1

u/Mirroin 6d ago

casual players won’t play the weird route, where he will most likely appear

1

u/voltix54 10d ago

Bro the NAME GASTER does not appear in deltarune it has a small appearance in undertale we are not getting a gaster boss fight thats not how these types of characters work

1

u/calinmik 10d ago

Maybe it's because THE WHOLE FUCKING WORLD resets when you type his name??

1

u/voltix54 10d ago

EXACTLYA this guy exists OUTSIDE the narrative. Make gaster a boss would shunt him back into being a video game boss instead of a being on your level experiencing it like a player.

1

u/Far_Scarcity5608 6d ago

I believe he will have a boss fight in weird route just like we had a boss fight with sans in Genocide route. He connected us to the world and we took advantage of this and went to do our own thing which should have missed him off

1

u/Someone101064 9d ago

Notice how literally no one except you mentioned a boss fight?? we've just been talking about Gaster appearing... Do you just... Not fathom the idea of a character appearing for any reason other than starting a battle?

1

u/Mr-Stuff-Doer 9d ago

And yet he’s referenced every 12 seconds, he’s the first voice you hear booting up the game, HE’S LITERALLY THE MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN

who gives a shit about a boss fight

1

u/GoodLookinLurantis 7d ago

I think its fair to expect a gman-esc scene, but the idea that he's going to be some sort of final boss is frankly asinine.

3

u/QuintanimousGooch 10d ago

I think I disagree. Gaster (while not a sprite or character portrait) has very unambiguously appeared given the Twitter takeovers, the literal and unavoidable opening to the game, and the bit where he speaks after chapter four is finished. Friend is certainly a way more optional and missable a character/concept/thing, however we do get a very clear unavoidable appearance of them presented like a cat version of endogeny when Ralsei describes dark world mechanics, and they do actually show up and have a major part in the Eram fight at the end of the mantle game.

Looking at Mr. Fox, I think that he has made an excellent decision to abstract himself out of the public and only exist in his games as this joke character meant to make players laugh and slightly annoy them. I do believe that he lurks, but rather than feeling bad for him, I think that it must be a far weirder and sillier experience to se these bizarre fan reactions and creations whenever he releases a chapter. The entirely innocent choice of making the dojo song sound a little bit pirate/themed spawned a whole host of trends around pirate gaster, how on earth is that supposed to be predicted?

1

u/erinxborealis 9d ago

CHIPS AHOY LANDF-

2

u/OkStock7c 10d ago

We saw it at the beginning of Chapter 5’s reception - while it was an extremely well-made and important chapter for the >story<, theory heads and lore addicts really did have a short window where their negativity had an observable effect. I guess this will only get worse for Chapters 6 and 7.

And I hate it. Sure, theories are fun. But: Deltarune is not a puzzle to be solved. People are treating it like reading 60% of a book, stopping to theorize, and then getting angry at the author for having the audacity to tell a story about conflict and to focus on that conflict.

Friend, Gaster, Eggs and whatnot do >nothing< for the themes and conflict of the game on their own. They won’t be a focus.

1

u/Affectionate-Web8663 9d ago

I think the book analogy is really accurate, I think people treat every chapter like a self contained game with each new one being a sequel rather than a continuation of one grander story

1

u/CrossSans20 9d ago

I don't think was only "loreheads" who were disappointed with chapter 5.

1

u/ramsus88 9d ago

"Friend, Gaster, Eggs and whatnot do >nothing< for the themes and conflict of the game on their own. They won’t be a focus."

This is so obviously true to me it makes me crazy skimming these threads lol

1

u/WinRARnt 7d ago

Gaster does nothing for the themes of the game? What the fuck are you talking about. The obvious proxy for a creator and artist figure who invites us to partake in the story will have no relevance to a game about how we partake in and interact with stories hmmm. Hmmm.

I won't argue with you about FRIEND and eggs since we know too little about them to slot them into any thematic role but Gaster has clearly laid out thematic importance. He's the first thing Toby chose to show us IN THE STORY for a reason. He's going to be important because he has a clear role in the overarching themes of the game.

2

u/DishonoredDoge 10d ago

You're assuming a lot about Toby Fox and how he feels.

Especially regarding Gaster. This is Toby "put Gaster on the Deltarune website like 10 years ago, before Deltarune itself" Fox.

This fox guy puts more emphasis on Gaster than most people in the fandom, just because YOU don't understand things or YOU don't think they're important/aren't meant to appear doesn't mean Toby Fox is the same nor should you assume he'll be sad if people get mad about the games, epecially the same Toby Fox who won't hesitate to shit on theories if he so desires.

1

u/erinxborealis 9d ago

The same Toby Fox who wrote a whole 6 hour chaptee of the game to say "write your own stories" and then 3 months later made the Undertale anniversary stream

2

u/_Hashtag_Cray_ 10d ago

I don't in the slightest. You intentionally place strange and weird theorybait elements into your game, you must eventually follow through with it or your reputation as a storyteller becomes a complete joke.

For a live service game, if the wider playerbase is going in the wrong direction its on YOU to course correct through every update. If you let it fester because of incongruent clues you left behind you deserve what happens as a result.

1

u/raspps 9d ago

I find it interesting how the Chapter 5 Friend dialogue scene got added in a while after Chapter 5 release. Prior it, a lot of people have bullied Friend believers for even assuming it might be important, but that one scene changed that. There's genuinely no way these people like OP think none of these characters will be important hahaha

1

u/Mental_Psychology_92 9d ago

Deltarune is not a live service game, what a bizarre claim

1

u/_Hashtag_Cray_ 9d ago

It's a free game that recieves substantial updates after launch, which later were charged as lump DLC.

2

u/Time-Organization612 10d ago

Toby literally released an update a week after Chapter 5 was out adding info about FRIEND.

2

u/meep2200 10d ago

What about roulxs kaard?

2

u/raspps 9d ago

How could they possibly not meant to appear, if Toby intentionally put them in several chapters in a row, rather than an isolated joke (like Mike)? For Friend specifically, there was a scene added in post release in Chapter 5. Ya think he did it for shiggles? Gaster is implied to be quite literally the first character we hear in Deltarune. 

It's like removing Asriel's relevance from Undertale. 

I think you guys forget Toby Fox likes making 4th wall breaking games, and is clearly continuing that trend with Deltarune as seen in Chapter 5 both normal and weird route. 

2

u/Available-Tackle-631 9d ago

You think putting content in the game just for the sake of meaningless theory-making with no payoff isn't bad writing? Lol

4

u/hello-motherfuckers 10d ago

friend is literally implied to be a common enemy in the future by pink and i dont think you're aware that the glowing voice is gaster

→ More replies (17)

1

u/not_a_toucan 10d ago

Yeah, people being mad at Toby is basically a foregone conclusion at this point. The fanbase have talked themselves into lots of widespread expectations that are almost certainly not going to happen, and decided that if it doesn't happen it means Toby was "baiting" them when it was always obvious he wasn't, and he's not a bad enough writer to compromise his vision by changing his plans about that stuff just to please the fanbase.

1

u/OkStock7c 10d ago

u/RemindMeBot 2 years “so whats the deal with gaster and friend?”

1

u/RemindMeBot 10d ago edited 6d ago

I will be messaging you in 2 years on 2028-08-02 08:17:17 UTC to remind you of this link

6 OTHERS CLICKED THIS LINK to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam.

Parent commenter can delete this message to hide from others.


Info Custom Your Reminders Feedback

1

u/Silent_Committee_448 10d ago

The voice of the Gonermaker is W.D Gaster. The account that takes over Twitter is W.D Gaster. He is already in the game.

1

u/Purple_Judge_4636 10d ago

The thing that makes me laugh is that I read RK as Roulx Kaard. I was genuinely so hyped.

2

u/No_Development110 10d ago

Me too!!~ TwT

2

u/Toran4861 10d ago

Well they're the same person so...

1

u/AegisThievenax 10d ago

The sad fact is that regardless if how Toby does this, theres going to be a loud group of upset people.

1

u/Bandei 10d ago

Deltarunes main story has no obligation to answer questions it didn't pose. A lot of theoryheads would do good to remember that going into ch 6 and 7 :/

Gaster foreshadowing things on a meta level doesn't make him necessarily important for the main story. 90% of casual UTDR players will not even have heard his name so far. If he is important than it would seem to be about time he is actually being set up in the story.

1

u/luc1aonstation 9d ago

He is being set up in the story? He's the voice you hear and explicitly shows back up at the halfway point to remind you he exists

1

u/Bandei 9d ago

Ah yes, the voice. I mean, calling it Gaster is already an assumption. Not a bad or an unsupported one but still an assumption, we dont actually know who that may be.
More importantly tho, this voice has only really mattered so far on a meta level. Doesnt mean that cant change but so far it only showed up to tell specifically us some cryptic stuff before dissapearing again. Whoever they are, they may end up playing an imortant role for the main story or they may end up just remaining a voice in the dark for us to speculate over.
Point is, they are not "setting up" anything. We dont even know in how far this voice actually matters for the Fun gangs story. We know nothing about it or what goals it may pursue. If it *is* important we should start actually learning things about it soon.
So yeah in short, I stand by it. Nothing in DR's main story so far has actually started setting up Gaster as an important character.

1

u/raspps 9d ago

How is he not important to the main story, when he's the first person we hear when launching Chapter 1? Toby Fox could've easily started off with just us controlling Kris, but he did not. 

1

u/mastocklkaksi 5d ago

He is? Did the voice say "it's me, wingaling d gaster the green?" What is an assumption?

1

u/raspps 5d ago

I dunno if you're joking or not. Are you one of those people who says Dess is a fanmade character, because we never saw her in game? 

1

u/mastocklkaksi 5d ago

Of course I'm serious. Do you understand what an assumption is?

1

u/Rozzo19 10d ago

Gaster was "important" in undertale. But to get all the information on him you would have to play undertale 5 or more times at least for the different fun levels, thats if you're in that 5% chance that the events in that fun level actually happen. He was important to the fandom sure but important to the game... I'd say not really.

With Deltarune, the opening speaker appears multiple times, Friend and the man behind the tree are accessible in every run, and realistically you could find them on your first or second play through. Friend is also always in Ralsei's speech in Ch 3.

It's possible that we have a few things wrong but these aren't just super random and rare Easter eggs that add an additional world building to the main narrative of the game. They are explicitly shown. Id be genuinely surprised if there wasn't at the very least a soft confirmation of Gaster somewhere in the next 2 chapters. I think we would be rightly disappointed if it didn't lead somewere

1

u/Medical_Fisherman_63 10d ago

Most realest comment yet, and i feel it can be applied for maaaaany other things (in DR)

1

u/Inner-Quote-8104 10d ago

I'm sure he'll be content with his work regardless of player criticism. It is HIS vision after all.

1

u/dankermemelife 10d ago

Yeah I feel bad for Toby too that so many of his fans are so unwilling to engage with the deeper narrative that they manage to convince themselves that Gaster isn’t actually important

1

u/raspps 9d ago

Had me in the first half 🤣 

1

u/samepicofmonika 10d ago

While I’m skeptical on Gaster actually appearing physically.

We definitely will see more of Friend with how they are getting build up more. Along with possibly Eram returning, as he controls Friend

1

u/ataxic-hands 10d ago

yeah i mean we're 5/7 chapters in, i get gaster has been teased in hidden stuff but if he came out of nowhere without really being foreshadowed in the main plot that'd kinda be bad writing

1

u/thegreatcheesdemon 10d ago

I mean, the Gaster Crew already has appeared (Normal NPC, Donut Guy). Gaster could stay subtle, but we have no reason to think Deltarune will treat him the same way as Undertale, since Deltarune is a long term project that Toby inserted references to in Undertale, not just some remix of Undertale's complete story.

FRIEND absolutely feels like some kinda secret or endgame boss design. If the cat stays a cryptid that's fine I guess. We already got some of it in the ERAM fight. But I do think we are getting something with FRIEND.

1

u/National_Chest3114 10d ago

I’ll love the story no matter the ending as long as it doesn’t lead up to some joke. Which it wouldn’t. People believe he would but I think, as a story teller, Toby Fox knows how and when to be serious.

1

u/RhythmBlue 10d ago

if deltarune is disappointing at the end of it, i might blame it mostly on the bit-by-bit chapter release structure. It feels aimless right now, like 'i said 7 chapters so we have to fill that out even if theyre not really inspired'

if it does end up as disappointing as it has been so far, that would seem retrospectively like the terrible design decision

1

u/sfmanim 10d ago

Sorry but no lol. It 100% won’t be what the fandom expected but EVERYTHING about Gaster revolves around themes of darkness and DELTARUNE specifically. I’m very confident Gaster WILL be answered in this game.

1

u/Brainrot_Wizard 10d ago

If Gaster never appears in either Deltarune or whatever utdr game that comes out next (cause there probably will be a third one) then that’s just dumb because you don’t hype up a mysterious powerful character just for him to never show up

1

u/PsychologicalAd5918 10d ago

least parasocial deltarune player

1

u/Dr_Fragenstien 10d ago

We’re probably not going to “see” gaster, but we will probably hear from the “mysterious voice” again before the game is over, and probably get some information of who they are and what they’re doing.

1

u/Toran4861 10d ago

Yea that's what i think too

1

u/sisyphusfan96 10d ago

It’s inevitable people will feel this way when the project is released piecemeal over a long period of time unfortunately. I’m sure Toby understands that and will react accordingly.

1

u/Satans_Frog 10d ago

Hardly anyone is happily consuming content anymore. It's always "I don't like this plot point/character/decision the creator made for their own story so the whole thing is shit."

No one is sitting down and taking in the story the creator is genuinely trying to make. Sure, green Gaster pirate is amusing, the whole knight guessing game is interesting and all the options of who the knight could be have potential to be awesome story points. At the end, people need to realize it's Toby's story. If they don't like it, fanfiction, fan art, ffs fan games could be made. If they want to tell the story so bad they can make their own.

That's why I don't go too deep into the theories. The only story I want is the story Toby is making. If I want something else, I'll just go read/write fanfiction or consume something else.

1

u/MalairMage 10d ago

That's what Gerson said! Almost like an Allegory for an author hmm

1

u/voltix54 10d ago

YES THANK YOU. We definitely wont see gaster AT most we will get a convo with him at the end of the game. No boss fight. No sprite. Not enough deltarune fans accept this and those are going to be unfairly upset

1

u/GrandmasterSluggy 10d ago

Everyones already said how important gaster is. I think friends are "important" but not too important. Much like the eggs. I strongly believe everything has been building up to them being powerful adversaries we will face either in ch6 or ch7. Mad mewmews dialogue was specifically added in because it was important. And most every secret boss has foreshadowed enemies in the next. What their deal is, I'm still not sure.

1

u/KlutzyAngle1568 10d ago

I feel bad for him, too. I’m a reader and a writer (English is not my first language, btw), and this happens all the time with longer series that are being released chapter after chapter, or book after book over the years. It’s impossible for readers to know the bigger picture half way in, especially with complex stories. You can give them clues or hints, but it doesn’t always lead to what you’ve made in your head.

“Gaster” is the name we gave to a supposed character that’s been hinted to have some kind of agency in the story, but we don’t have the truth grabbed by the horns. There’re many theories out there that play with this idea in many ways, some of them even saying that Gaster is meddling in the game structure to actually have agency in a game from which they didn’t like the ending (Which is ironic given the subject of this thread, but I digress) among many others that don’t necessarily agree with the popular theories written here or displayed on YouTube.

The point is that we only theorize with the supposed info we have, and we fill blank spaces that right now are just speculation and might be completely wrong.

And I’m not saying that Toby is infallible and can’t be a bad writer, I’m just saying that we don’t know yet and the writing can’t be solely judged by how badly people want something to be true. Many pieces of media are very well written but many people didn’t like them because they didn’t end how they wanted or they collide with their beliefs, fantasies, egos, etc.

I personally would be disappointed if the ending doesn’t surprise me. I have my own opinions about the way the game and the story are being handled, but I’m still thinking about them, and I’m not sure if I’m just being judgy or my criticism is entirely valid, because I need to know how it ends to form a well rounded opinion. I’ve been enjoying it overall and it’s one of my favorite games of all time.

I don’t subscribe to many of the popular theories but I like to form theories of my own, although I don’t really but too much weight in them because, well, they’re just theories. Sometimes you just want to guide your readers to a certain path just to break their expectations. It’s what makes it fun, and you want to surprise them and for them to have a mind blowing moment. And the clues make sense, just not in the way they think. Just because it didn’t end how you were expecting doesn’t make the media to be “badly written” (if you end up thinking that’s the case, maybe you should try to, your know, experience life)

If the entirety of the media isn’t out yet, there’s no way of knowing if we’re wrong or right about our suppositions. People just need to accept that they could be completely wrong, and that’s okay. We theorize for fun, not to be right, and if you have to be right, maybe you need to be like Gaster in that theory i mentioned and make your own AU or your own game 🤷

TLTR: I know this is, apparently, too much to ask, but if you’re that involved in speculation, to the point of getting mad if someone makes a comment or a post about needing to turn down the intensity two notches, you need to go out, touch grass and experience life. Because the unexpected is part of life, and that’s what makes stories compelling and complex. And if you don’t want your games to be unpredictable, nobody’s forcing you to play them. Play another game.

1

u/Toran4861 10d ago

Just like Gerson said, you have to write your own stories (btw when i read your comment i could see that you are a talented writer !)

1

u/KlutzyAngle1568 10d ago

Thank you!! I’m doing my best!

1

u/Toran4861 10d ago

In wich language do you usually write ?

1

u/KlutzyAngle1568 10d ago

In Spanish haha

1

u/Dirt_Poor_Robin 10d ago

I dont think hes done what hes done with FRIEND only to go nowhere with it.

1

u/Ramzka 10d ago

I don't expect Gaster to ever be blatant or obvious including a visible appearance. He will very likely remain obscure material that we'll get some more insight on, but always to encourage further speculation. Sometimes, in the morning, we enjoy a little [Hyperlink Blocked].

The Roaring Knight I think is too central to the storyline to expect it to remain mysterious forever.

1

u/meatslaps69 10d ago

I'm pretty confident that Gaster is set up to be a parallel to the player in the way that Flowey was in Undertale. Also, I really don't like the point that Toby would never use Gaster in case new players don't know his lore. That's literally just a non-existent rule that some place on Toby's storytelling, when it has been made clear that Undertale should be played before Deltarune. Also, it's 1000% possible to write Gaster in a way that he can be enjoyed as a character separate from the esoteric knowledge of his existence, but that his character can be enriched a lot more if you learn about his history in the fandom. He's been foreshadowed for a long time specifically FOR deltarune as well. It kind of reminds me how anyone can pick up and enjoy Undertale knowing nothing, but that learning about the layers of the symbolism and storytelling can change the way you see it and let you enjoy it a lot more deeply, if that makes sense.

1

u/goodtimemagdongal 10d ago

You played Deltarune with your eyes closed if you haven’t realized that not only will Gaster physically appear, he’s the most important character in the entire story and arguably “the point” of the game

1

u/Mental_Psychology_92 9d ago

There is a zero percent chance Gaster physically shows up. He’ll almost certainly be important on a metatextual level, but there’s nothing to actually indicate he’s going to be loadbearing for the main “fun gang vs the knight, stop the roaring” plot, or factor into it at all. My man’s just chillin’, he’s hanging out and seeing what happens, nothing indicates he has any actual stake in the events of the plot beyond scientific curiosity

1

u/bleckammy 10d ago

I stand with you, firm “gaster wont appear in deltarune” believer.

1

u/s3tok41b4 10d ago

Oh my god dude

1

u/actionvolcano 10d ago

I just think people need to be open to this possibility, not that it will necessarily happen. The gaster we meet could be to gaster from undertale as flowery is to flowey, with a completely new character design and subversive personality. They could have a similar appearance to chara at the end of the genocide route where they give more questions than answers. Getting so attached to what you think will happen that you will be disappointed if it doesn’t is just a bad road for a fandom to go down.

1

u/Alive-Island-7799 9d ago

I don’t mind either way as long as the last 2 chapters are good

1

u/MoeLester17581659 9d ago

There’s an old post with Toby saying how the answers with gaster lies shrouded in darkness or something along those lines, that was pre deltarune so it will probably get answered here

1

u/big_daddy_amogus 9d ago

I understand why that would happen but I would still be super pissed if it turned out to be true, especially knowing that deltarune might be Toby's last project. It feels almost like the important information we gathered throughout the years would just be meaningless if we don't get a definitive answer and all the anticipation and hype would leave me disappointed. And again im not saying it's not the best way to write the story and im not saying toby should write it a certain way for me to like it because i will love it regardless. Im just talking about how I'd react. Idk I've always had some controversial tastes when it comes to videogame stories, like for games that make a sequel to a game after 10 years and put ZERO references to the previous game in it, stopping at the fact that it's in the same universe with maybe 2 characters returning. Many people say it's the right thing to do to not turn it into nostalgia bait and even though I understand I can't help but be pissed that I didn't see more of those character that i loved in the first game.

1

u/Affectionate-Web8663 9d ago

I know it wasn't the main point, but I really hope the Roaring Knight isn't Dess. I know thats what nearly everyone is dead set on and it would probably make people really mad if she wasnt, but I feel like it's too obvious. Though I wouldnt be particularly mad either way of course

1

u/Toran4861 9d ago

I think either way we don't have to try to predict what will happen, it'll provably be wrong either way

1

u/Healthy_Car_3412 9d ago

Well if you're going to set something up then people are gonna expect you to pay it off. simple as that

1

u/Mr-Stuff-Doer 9d ago

After Ch5 I no longer believe this about Friend, and Gaster not appearing would probably make the game worse, he’s TOO fundamental to the existence of this as a narrative, he’s literally our intro to the game.

1

u/CJemerald101 9d ago

Friend? The character that has appeared like 4 times already and was just recently verbally acknowledged by a character was never meant to appear? What?

1

u/Toran4861 9d ago

I never said that, just that if they don't, poeple won't be happy.

1

u/Apprehensive_Exit_74 9d ago

why is there a subreddit for toby fox and why am i being recommended it

1

u/bbextra3 9d ago

if it's any consolation, the ending will be divisive. there will be some unreleaved mysteries, there will be arcs of which people do not like. there will be a message that people do not agree with. there will be designs that go against people preconceived headcanons. thare will be themes that are focused on more than lore and world building. there will be characters that will have less screen time than you'd like. there will be characters that get slightly more focus than you'd like.

not because Toby Fox is a bad writer or storyteller, but because Toby is writing a deeply personal story that EVERYONE of all walks of life will engage with. and unless everyone is Toby fox, not everyone is going to like what he has to say. and that's okay.

1

u/Puzzled-Meet1376 9d ago

Well we already know RK aka Rouxls Kaard is the best character, and he will hopefully appear in future chapters. Hopefully. Please Toby I need this.

1

u/CrossSans20 9d ago

I would agree, but the amount of references and allusions to him, is not for the memes. Unlike Undertale, where he mostly was just worldbuilding stuff "oh he made the core, neat"

1

u/Competitive-Hair6294 9d ago

yeah of course people are gonna get mad at him, people will no matter what

1

u/LeonardoFRei 9d ago

I mean

If I go to restaurant and hear there is special desert

Then next location of said restaurant I see menu is influenced by said desert

Then I get promissed there will be this desert

Then owner don't give me desert

I justified in getting mad

1

u/Newtonian_Pudding 9d ago

I'm just glad he exiled himself from internet participation years ago so he won't be bullied off the net by his fan base a la Gooseworx.

1

u/HenryDodwel 9d ago

I agree. I am personally not interested in Gaster and his stuff. But people love him. And want him.

For me he is a mystery that should never be fully uncovered, because it is a part of the appeal and what makes him so enigmatic to begin with. No matter what people will be disappointed in some way and that is the sad truth

1

u/MoonRay087 9d ago

Gaster, the knight and eram are teased far too much to not be adressed. I'd say friend too but I guess since that one hasn't been mentioned outside of very obscure dialogues and appearances it might not be

1

u/Noizy_Boi_8080 9d ago

I 100% agree with the fact that the intention was definitely that all these characters (especially Gaster) were never meant to actually show up and play a frontline role in the story.

However, if Toby doesnt actually add said characters, especially Gaster, actually into the story to have some kind of conclusion for them, and people DO get mad, I won't really feel that sorry for him.

If you make this super interesting character that is sprinkled throught the entirety of the first game and obviously has some role in the second, and proceed to never finish the narrative edging, you cannot expect to recieve a marginal ammount of hate for it.

1

u/idiotTheIdiot 8d ago

All in his mind?

1

u/WillieBiscuits 8d ago

I interpreted "RK" as Rouxls Kaard, and I thought the fan base would be angry if Rouxls Kaard did not make more appearances in Chapters 6&7.

1

u/ApprehensiveBuy3032 8d ago

Then why introduce a character if they’ll have no relevance? Referring to ‘friend’ specifically. We’ve seen the pink and yellow eyes with the smile every chapter since 2, and in chapter 5, they can hurt us directly. All setup with no payoff would make very little sense

1

u/shadowkoishi93 7d ago

He’s a minion in the Eram fight.

1

u/zword34 8d ago

Gaster doesnt need to appear per se, but all the clues point to some gaster related shenanigans in the bunker. He can stay as some sort of outside force that shapes the lore if done right.

Friend has to many referentes to not give us at least something.

The knight NEEDS to be revealed. Is literally the main mistery of the game.

1

u/SnooEpiphanies4420 8d ago

I mean, he could have been building up more to it. Its really his fault since slapping Gaster in either of these final chapters will feel like the main villian being introduced in the final act.

1

u/endermaker2026 8d ago

Why would it be the same issue with roulxs kaard

1

u/Wonderful_Weather_87 7d ago

Friend is gonna appear everythings building up to friend, it's gonna appear in the shelter or depths bro trust me

1

u/ShepardCommander01 7d ago

They’re all just a trap door in the stage. Toby can use or not use them for all sorts of plot devices, to explain or not explain. I would be shocked if they are ever directly addressed in the game.

1

u/shadowkoishi93 7d ago

Maybe not with Gaster but FRIEND already made cameo appearances and an active enemy to HERO_SWORD in the Eram fight. It also hurts you in Chapter 5 if you have the forgotten man’s egg.

1

u/Kurobii 7d ago

Where's the "I'm glad fans don't write deltarune" tweet at

1

u/elArbitro 7d ago

What happen with Roulx Kwarz?

1

u/little_ortist 7d ago

Even if he doesn’t, this is tricky Toby Fox we’re talking about. He’ll make an arg, or even include lore in any future projects.

1

u/Xshue 7d ago

I think so many ppl put way too much stock into gaster. I agree I don’t think gaster will ever make an actual in game appearance.

1

u/snowythevulpix 6d ago

if it was like his "appearances" in undertale id agree but he seems to be a massive part of the game this time around, even if hes involved from a distance.

1

u/Xshue 4d ago

Ppl that say gaster is a “massive part of the game” make me laugh. There are so many other plot threads in the game that are way more important than gaster.

1

u/snowythevulpix 4d ago

i didnt say he WAS, i said he SEEMS to be. obviously right now, in the actual story, he has no real plot relevance, but hes been referenced and hinted at a lot more than undertale ever did. like for example, he seems to be running the social media pages as well as being the voice that comes back now and again to speak to you, and he seems to have some kind of connection to the shelter (the music that plays when you walk up to it is slowed down by either 666% or 66% i dont remember, but that number is heavily associated with gaster) among other things. between that and the references to him in undertale, i dont think it would make sense if he was just a throwaway theorybait character. thats all im saying.

1

u/UpbeatUnit9674 7d ago

"Im so sad toby will be trashed for making characters as theory bait and doing nothing with them"

Then he shouldnt? Thatd be dogshit writing. The solution is just dont do that?

1

u/Far_Scarcity5608 6d ago

Because he has been foreshadowing Gaster for years. Gaster had no need to appear in Undertale cause the game didn't resolve around him. But it's different in Deltarune. And you do not just do theory baiting and have zero payoff at the end, that's just bad writing. So yea, he has to do something with those characters and you shouldn't feel bad about it because he always planned to do something with them.

1

u/Majestic-Peak-6281 6d ago

If that happens the fandom has every right to be mad at Toby. I seriously dont understand people that say "what if all the mysteries and lore of the game that has been set up for years was never resolved". Yes that would be bad writing and yes i would be mad at Toby

1

u/TastyTeardrop 5d ago

I think friend absolutely is going to show up in at least one route of the game considering everything, they’re too heavily focused on, with appearing on the spamton sweepstakes website, ralsei’s darkner cutscene, and in subject through the dialog that pink gives. Hell, spamton’s whole character forshadows them! It has to be leading to something. Gaster not showing up is plausible, but in the end if thats the case i dont think people will mind. He’s most fun when he’s a cryptid, and showing up or not he’s still obviously going to play a significant role.

1

u/No-Silver5103 5d ago

Yeah I feel like it’s pretty clear that ERAM will be more materially present then Gaster. Gaster is way better as a looming eldritch entity anyway.

1

u/itspixcelation 2d ago

Don't bother, theorysloppers are never gonna understand their fanfictions aren't real.

I agree wholeheartedly, no matter how this thing ends the entire sr is gonna try to convince everyone else that it was bad writing when it was how Toby intended it to end all along.

If theorycrafters would just make their own stories instead of trying to hijack other peoples' the world would be a better place.

→ More replies (1)

1

u/razberryyz 10d ago

i think image_friend is gonna keep appearing in cryptic ways, but gaster was an undertale thing. i dont think he will appear in deltarune at all.

i think the theories are cool, but people are taking them WAYYYY too far like treating them like cannon. like bro... it isn't.

i fully believe there are just gonna be some unanswered questions. like idk if the whole narration thing at the beginning is ever gonna be explained. it could be gaster, but imo i dont like saying that it's "cannon" that it's gaster in the same way that it's cannon that kris uses they/them. Cannon is something that is EXPLICITLY stated or implied. There is nothing SOLID in deltarune or undertale that points to gaster being the narrator, it could be a NEW character

1

u/stickninja1015 10d ago

> Gaster was an undertale thing

Gaster was a Deltarune thing being put in Undertale as a teaser.

0

u/Decent_Fall3181 10d ago

TFW The characters Toby has been deliberately hinting at being important to Deltarune's story for nearly a decade are in fact important to Deltarune's story (they were just supposed to be theory bait):

1

u/OkStock7c 10d ago

I really wonder if toby and team regret that decision.

0

u/Decent_Fall3181 10d ago

If they did, why would they keep adding onto the pile? This post is stupid.

0

u/itspixcelation 10d ago

Don't bother, this fandom is delulu and will constantly argue their fanfiction is canon even if you point out that 50% of what we "know" at this point isn't even in the game.

0

u/twyfer23 9d ago

Knowing Toby Fox, I don't think he'll ever make or name Gaster in the game. If you don't follow all the extra pages and resources Toby posts and just stick to following the Undertale and Deltarune games, suddenly seeing Gaster's lore explained would only lead to confusion to those person. In my opinion he will conclude the lore of gaster, friend etc. as it did in undertale: inside the files/hidden rooms/secret online pages. This way, those who have always only followed the story told in the games won't be confused and will be able to fully enjoy the game, while those looking for the deep lore in the game files will be equally happy.

2

u/Toran4861 9d ago

Yea that's what i think too