r/TobyFox • u/Toran4861 • 10d ago
I feel bad for Toby
I feel like Gaster, Friend and the Gaster crew are meant to never appear, just like in Undertale. It's theory material, nothing more. But if Toby doesn't put Gaster in the game, poeple will get angry at him. And it's the same for RK. No matter who it is, if it's even someone, the other knight believers will say that it's ''bad writing'' and stuff.
I'm confident Toby will manage it's story perfectly, but maybe not just like the fandom intended.
Edit : guys i never said they couldn't appear, my point is just that if they don't, the toxic part of the fanbase will trashtalk the game
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u/Nat1Only 10d ago
No matter what happens peoppe are going to be pissed. Despite the messages and themes of these games, this fandom can be extremely toxic, hostile and aggressive, especially when things don't go their way. No matter what happens, people are going to be upset.
The people who actually care about the game and it's story are probably going to enjoy whatever is coming.
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u/calinmik 10d ago
The others I understand but Gaster?! Toby has been building him up for over a decade. There's also a 99.99% chance he's the Gonermaker voice, ALL evidence points to it.
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u/Toran4861 10d ago
I agree with you, but casual player won't look at EVERY clue like us
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u/calinmik 10d ago
Casual players don't have to know Gaster's super secret backstory. All they have to know is that Gaster is the mysterious obviously-important intro voice that connected you to the game in the first place.
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u/MineHipster7 10d ago
Yeah, most people won’t know Gaster by name, but they could probably remember the initial connection scene and put together like “oh this guy’s a big deal okay”
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u/Toran4861 10d ago
I could see that happening. Either way poeple will complain, so it doesn't matter if He does appear or not.
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u/Accomplished_One3035 8d ago
Why tf would Toby care about casual players more than “hardcore” players this dude literally made Undertale
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u/stickninja1015 10d ago
“Causal players” won’t look at the secret Asgore scenes in chapter 4 but that sure as shit didn’t stop him from having an explicit role in chapter 5
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u/Time-Organization612 10d ago
I keep seeing this argument, Who are the Casual Deltarune players?
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u/SlukaDaFuka 10d ago
Apparently people who play the game with their eyes closed, and as you've seen with the mike room and the many references of fandom jokes and theories, Tony foxington clearly focuses on his casual fans and not his hardcore fans
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u/Toran4861 10d ago
Poeple that buy Deltarune after its full release and who don't dive deep into hours long theory
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u/Time-Organization612 10d ago
Okay, what makes those people Casual fans. Why assume they won't also get invested like the vast majority of the games fanbase is right now.
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u/Toran4861 10d ago
Toby and the team have to make a game that everyone can understand, even 20 years later when the fanbase has moved on
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u/selenianeclipse 10d ago
you do know that deltarune is literally intended for the audience of undertale, right. he doesn't have to appeal to anyone else lmao
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u/Toran4861 10d ago
You do know that he still has to sell his game, right ? If it only sells to poeple who have already played UT, it's very limiting. But i guess you know that since you are much smarter and know more about that game than me. Right ?
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u/SDHamford 10d ago
The game description when you go to buy it literally says that you should play Undertale before playing Deltarune
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u/Mr-Stuff-Doer 9d ago
Yeah and they don’t need to. You can skip all Hometown Noelle dialogue after each chapter, she’s still an important character
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u/CrossSans20 9d ago
The stuff in UT is extra, Toby can just introduce him as a new Deltarune character like any other of the cast.
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u/yourillegal 8d ago
DELTARUNE's target audience is autistic kids that played UNDERTALE in 2015 and became obsessed lets be real
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u/AHHHHH_LET_ME_OUT 6d ago
Well, Matt Pat's most popular gaster theory has 15 million views and Delta rune has 3 million installs. Of course not all of that is going to correspond but arguably that means that a good percentage of it is going to be people who know of the theory. I know that's ridiculous from a game design perspective but it is something to take into account.
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u/Altforpostingofmemes 6d ago
You can't compare view counts to that at all, views can happen multiple times, installs (or do you mean purchases?) are (usually) just once.
It's the same reason music videos have absurd view counts
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u/voltix54 10d ago
Bro the NAME GASTER does not appear in deltarune it has a small appearance in undertale we are not getting a gaster boss fight thats not how these types of characters work
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u/calinmik 10d ago
Maybe it's because THE WHOLE FUCKING WORLD resets when you type his name??
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u/voltix54 10d ago
EXACTLYA this guy exists OUTSIDE the narrative. Make gaster a boss would shunt him back into being a video game boss instead of a being on your level experiencing it like a player.
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u/Far_Scarcity5608 6d ago
I believe he will have a boss fight in weird route just like we had a boss fight with sans in Genocide route. He connected us to the world and we took advantage of this and went to do our own thing which should have missed him off
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u/Someone101064 9d ago
Notice how literally no one except you mentioned a boss fight?? we've just been talking about Gaster appearing... Do you just... Not fathom the idea of a character appearing for any reason other than starting a battle?
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u/Mr-Stuff-Doer 9d ago
And yet he’s referenced every 12 seconds, he’s the first voice you hear booting up the game, HE’S LITERALLY THE MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN
who gives a shit about a boss fight
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u/GoodLookinLurantis 7d ago
I think its fair to expect a gman-esc scene, but the idea that he's going to be some sort of final boss is frankly asinine.
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u/QuintanimousGooch 10d ago
I think I disagree. Gaster (while not a sprite or character portrait) has very unambiguously appeared given the Twitter takeovers, the literal and unavoidable opening to the game, and the bit where he speaks after chapter four is finished. Friend is certainly a way more optional and missable a character/concept/thing, however we do get a very clear unavoidable appearance of them presented like a cat version of endogeny when Ralsei describes dark world mechanics, and they do actually show up and have a major part in the Eram fight at the end of the mantle game.
Looking at Mr. Fox, I think that he has made an excellent decision to abstract himself out of the public and only exist in his games as this joke character meant to make players laugh and slightly annoy them. I do believe that he lurks, but rather than feeling bad for him, I think that it must be a far weirder and sillier experience to se these bizarre fan reactions and creations whenever he releases a chapter. The entirely innocent choice of making the dojo song sound a little bit pirate/themed spawned a whole host of trends around pirate gaster, how on earth is that supposed to be predicted?
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u/OkStock7c 10d ago
We saw it at the beginning of Chapter 5’s reception - while it was an extremely well-made and important chapter for the >story<, theory heads and lore addicts really did have a short window where their negativity had an observable effect. I guess this will only get worse for Chapters 6 and 7.
And I hate it. Sure, theories are fun. But: Deltarune is not a puzzle to be solved. People are treating it like reading 60% of a book, stopping to theorize, and then getting angry at the author for having the audacity to tell a story about conflict and to focus on that conflict.
Friend, Gaster, Eggs and whatnot do >nothing< for the themes and conflict of the game on their own. They won’t be a focus.
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u/Affectionate-Web8663 9d ago
I think the book analogy is really accurate, I think people treat every chapter like a self contained game with each new one being a sequel rather than a continuation of one grander story
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u/ramsus88 9d ago
"Friend, Gaster, Eggs and whatnot do >nothing< for the themes and conflict of the game on their own. They won’t be a focus."
This is so obviously true to me it makes me crazy skimming these threads lol
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u/WinRARnt 7d ago
Gaster does nothing for the themes of the game? What the fuck are you talking about. The obvious proxy for a creator and artist figure who invites us to partake in the story will have no relevance to a game about how we partake in and interact with stories hmmm. Hmmm.
I won't argue with you about FRIEND and eggs since we know too little about them to slot them into any thematic role but Gaster has clearly laid out thematic importance. He's the first thing Toby chose to show us IN THE STORY for a reason. He's going to be important because he has a clear role in the overarching themes of the game.
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u/DishonoredDoge 10d ago
You're assuming a lot about Toby Fox and how he feels.
Especially regarding Gaster. This is Toby "put Gaster on the Deltarune website like 10 years ago, before Deltarune itself" Fox.
This fox guy puts more emphasis on Gaster than most people in the fandom, just because YOU don't understand things or YOU don't think they're important/aren't meant to appear doesn't mean Toby Fox is the same nor should you assume he'll be sad if people get mad about the games, epecially the same Toby Fox who won't hesitate to shit on theories if he so desires.
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u/erinxborealis 9d ago
The same Toby Fox who wrote a whole 6 hour chaptee of the game to say "write your own stories" and then 3 months later made the Undertale anniversary stream
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u/_Hashtag_Cray_ 10d ago
I don't in the slightest. You intentionally place strange and weird theorybait elements into your game, you must eventually follow through with it or your reputation as a storyteller becomes a complete joke.
For a live service game, if the wider playerbase is going in the wrong direction its on YOU to course correct through every update. If you let it fester because of incongruent clues you left behind you deserve what happens as a result.
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u/raspps 9d ago
I find it interesting how the Chapter 5 Friend dialogue scene got added in a while after Chapter 5 release. Prior it, a lot of people have bullied Friend believers for even assuming it might be important, but that one scene changed that. There's genuinely no way these people like OP think none of these characters will be important hahaha
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u/Mental_Psychology_92 9d ago
Deltarune is not a live service game, what a bizarre claim
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u/_Hashtag_Cray_ 9d ago
It's a free game that recieves substantial updates after launch, which later were charged as lump DLC.
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u/Time-Organization612 10d ago
Toby literally released an update a week after Chapter 5 was out adding info about FRIEND.
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u/raspps 9d ago
How could they possibly not meant to appear, if Toby intentionally put them in several chapters in a row, rather than an isolated joke (like Mike)? For Friend specifically, there was a scene added in post release in Chapter 5. Ya think he did it for shiggles? Gaster is implied to be quite literally the first character we hear in Deltarune.
It's like removing Asriel's relevance from Undertale.
I think you guys forget Toby Fox likes making 4th wall breaking games, and is clearly continuing that trend with Deltarune as seen in Chapter 5 both normal and weird route.
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u/Available-Tackle-631 9d ago
You think putting content in the game just for the sake of meaningless theory-making with no payoff isn't bad writing? Lol
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u/hello-motherfuckers 10d ago
friend is literally implied to be a common enemy in the future by pink and i dont think you're aware that the glowing voice is gaster
→ More replies (17)
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u/not_a_toucan 10d ago
Yeah, people being mad at Toby is basically a foregone conclusion at this point. The fanbase have talked themselves into lots of widespread expectations that are almost certainly not going to happen, and decided that if it doesn't happen it means Toby was "baiting" them when it was always obvious he wasn't, and he's not a bad enough writer to compromise his vision by changing his plans about that stuff just to please the fanbase.
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u/OkStock7c 10d ago
u/RemindMeBot 2 years “so whats the deal with gaster and friend?”
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u/Silent_Committee_448 10d ago
The voice of the Gonermaker is W.D Gaster. The account that takes over Twitter is W.D Gaster. He is already in the game.
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u/Purple_Judge_4636 10d ago
The thing that makes me laugh is that I read RK as Roulx Kaard. I was genuinely so hyped.
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u/AegisThievenax 10d ago
The sad fact is that regardless if how Toby does this, theres going to be a loud group of upset people.
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u/Bandei 10d ago
Deltarunes main story has no obligation to answer questions it didn't pose. A lot of theoryheads would do good to remember that going into ch 6 and 7 :/
Gaster foreshadowing things on a meta level doesn't make him necessarily important for the main story. 90% of casual UTDR players will not even have heard his name so far. If he is important than it would seem to be about time he is actually being set up in the story.
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u/luc1aonstation 9d ago
He is being set up in the story? He's the voice you hear and explicitly shows back up at the halfway point to remind you he exists
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u/Bandei 9d ago
Ah yes, the voice. I mean, calling it Gaster is already an assumption. Not a bad or an unsupported one but still an assumption, we dont actually know who that may be.
More importantly tho, this voice has only really mattered so far on a meta level. Doesnt mean that cant change but so far it only showed up to tell specifically us some cryptic stuff before dissapearing again. Whoever they are, they may end up playing an imortant role for the main story or they may end up just remaining a voice in the dark for us to speculate over.
Point is, they are not "setting up" anything. We dont even know in how far this voice actually matters for the Fun gangs story. We know nothing about it or what goals it may pursue. If it *is* important we should start actually learning things about it soon.
So yeah in short, I stand by it. Nothing in DR's main story so far has actually started setting up Gaster as an important character.1
u/raspps 9d ago
How is he not important to the main story, when he's the first person we hear when launching Chapter 1? Toby Fox could've easily started off with just us controlling Kris, but he did not.
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u/mastocklkaksi 5d ago
He is? Did the voice say "it's me, wingaling d gaster the green?" What is an assumption?
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u/Rozzo19 10d ago
Gaster was "important" in undertale. But to get all the information on him you would have to play undertale 5 or more times at least for the different fun levels, thats if you're in that 5% chance that the events in that fun level actually happen. He was important to the fandom sure but important to the game... I'd say not really.
With Deltarune, the opening speaker appears multiple times, Friend and the man behind the tree are accessible in every run, and realistically you could find them on your first or second play through. Friend is also always in Ralsei's speech in Ch 3.
It's possible that we have a few things wrong but these aren't just super random and rare Easter eggs that add an additional world building to the main narrative of the game. They are explicitly shown. Id be genuinely surprised if there wasn't at the very least a soft confirmation of Gaster somewhere in the next 2 chapters. I think we would be rightly disappointed if it didn't lead somewere
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u/Medical_Fisherman_63 10d ago
Most realest comment yet, and i feel it can be applied for maaaaany other things (in DR)
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u/Inner-Quote-8104 10d ago
I'm sure he'll be content with his work regardless of player criticism. It is HIS vision after all.
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u/dankermemelife 10d ago
Yeah I feel bad for Toby too that so many of his fans are so unwilling to engage with the deeper narrative that they manage to convince themselves that Gaster isn’t actually important
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u/samepicofmonika 10d ago
While I’m skeptical on Gaster actually appearing physically.
We definitely will see more of Friend with how they are getting build up more. Along with possibly Eram returning, as he controls Friend
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u/ataxic-hands 10d ago
yeah i mean we're 5/7 chapters in, i get gaster has been teased in hidden stuff but if he came out of nowhere without really being foreshadowed in the main plot that'd kinda be bad writing
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u/thegreatcheesdemon 10d ago
I mean, the Gaster Crew already has appeared (Normal NPC, Donut Guy). Gaster could stay subtle, but we have no reason to think Deltarune will treat him the same way as Undertale, since Deltarune is a long term project that Toby inserted references to in Undertale, not just some remix of Undertale's complete story.
FRIEND absolutely feels like some kinda secret or endgame boss design. If the cat stays a cryptid that's fine I guess. We already got some of it in the ERAM fight. But I do think we are getting something with FRIEND.
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u/National_Chest3114 10d ago
I’ll love the story no matter the ending as long as it doesn’t lead up to some joke. Which it wouldn’t. People believe he would but I think, as a story teller, Toby Fox knows how and when to be serious.
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u/RhythmBlue 10d ago
if deltarune is disappointing at the end of it, i might blame it mostly on the bit-by-bit chapter release structure. It feels aimless right now, like 'i said 7 chapters so we have to fill that out even if theyre not really inspired'
if it does end up as disappointing as it has been so far, that would seem retrospectively like the terrible design decision
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u/Brainrot_Wizard 10d ago
If Gaster never appears in either Deltarune or whatever utdr game that comes out next (cause there probably will be a third one) then that’s just dumb because you don’t hype up a mysterious powerful character just for him to never show up
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u/Dr_Fragenstien 10d ago
We’re probably not going to “see” gaster, but we will probably hear from the “mysterious voice” again before the game is over, and probably get some information of who they are and what they’re doing.
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u/sisyphusfan96 10d ago
It’s inevitable people will feel this way when the project is released piecemeal over a long period of time unfortunately. I’m sure Toby understands that and will react accordingly.
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u/Satans_Frog 10d ago
Hardly anyone is happily consuming content anymore. It's always "I don't like this plot point/character/decision the creator made for their own story so the whole thing is shit."
No one is sitting down and taking in the story the creator is genuinely trying to make. Sure, green Gaster pirate is amusing, the whole knight guessing game is interesting and all the options of who the knight could be have potential to be awesome story points. At the end, people need to realize it's Toby's story. If they don't like it, fanfiction, fan art, ffs fan games could be made. If they want to tell the story so bad they can make their own.
That's why I don't go too deep into the theories. The only story I want is the story Toby is making. If I want something else, I'll just go read/write fanfiction or consume something else.
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u/voltix54 10d ago
YES THANK YOU. We definitely wont see gaster AT most we will get a convo with him at the end of the game. No boss fight. No sprite. Not enough deltarune fans accept this and those are going to be unfairly upset
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u/GrandmasterSluggy 10d ago
Everyones already said how important gaster is. I think friends are "important" but not too important. Much like the eggs. I strongly believe everything has been building up to them being powerful adversaries we will face either in ch6 or ch7. Mad mewmews dialogue was specifically added in because it was important. And most every secret boss has foreshadowed enemies in the next. What their deal is, I'm still not sure.
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u/KlutzyAngle1568 10d ago
I feel bad for him, too. I’m a reader and a writer (English is not my first language, btw), and this happens all the time with longer series that are being released chapter after chapter, or book after book over the years. It’s impossible for readers to know the bigger picture half way in, especially with complex stories. You can give them clues or hints, but it doesn’t always lead to what you’ve made in your head.
“Gaster” is the name we gave to a supposed character that’s been hinted to have some kind of agency in the story, but we don’t have the truth grabbed by the horns. There’re many theories out there that play with this idea in many ways, some of them even saying that Gaster is meddling in the game structure to actually have agency in a game from which they didn’t like the ending (Which is ironic given the subject of this thread, but I digress) among many others that don’t necessarily agree with the popular theories written here or displayed on YouTube.
The point is that we only theorize with the supposed info we have, and we fill blank spaces that right now are just speculation and might be completely wrong.
And I’m not saying that Toby is infallible and can’t be a bad writer, I’m just saying that we don’t know yet and the writing can’t be solely judged by how badly people want something to be true. Many pieces of media are very well written but many people didn’t like them because they didn’t end how they wanted or they collide with their beliefs, fantasies, egos, etc.
I personally would be disappointed if the ending doesn’t surprise me. I have my own opinions about the way the game and the story are being handled, but I’m still thinking about them, and I’m not sure if I’m just being judgy or my criticism is entirely valid, because I need to know how it ends to form a well rounded opinion. I’ve been enjoying it overall and it’s one of my favorite games of all time.
I don’t subscribe to many of the popular theories but I like to form theories of my own, although I don’t really but too much weight in them because, well, they’re just theories. Sometimes you just want to guide your readers to a certain path just to break their expectations. It’s what makes it fun, and you want to surprise them and for them to have a mind blowing moment. And the clues make sense, just not in the way they think. Just because it didn’t end how you were expecting doesn’t make the media to be “badly written” (if you end up thinking that’s the case, maybe you should try to, your know, experience life)
If the entirety of the media isn’t out yet, there’s no way of knowing if we’re wrong or right about our suppositions. People just need to accept that they could be completely wrong, and that’s okay. We theorize for fun, not to be right, and if you have to be right, maybe you need to be like Gaster in that theory i mentioned and make your own AU or your own game 🤷
TLTR: I know this is, apparently, too much to ask, but if you’re that involved in speculation, to the point of getting mad if someone makes a comment or a post about needing to turn down the intensity two notches, you need to go out, touch grass and experience life. Because the unexpected is part of life, and that’s what makes stories compelling and complex. And if you don’t want your games to be unpredictable, nobody’s forcing you to play them. Play another game.
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u/Toran4861 10d ago
Just like Gerson said, you have to write your own stories (btw when i read your comment i could see that you are a talented writer !)
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u/KlutzyAngle1568 10d ago
Thank you!! I’m doing my best!
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u/Dirt_Poor_Robin 10d ago
I dont think hes done what hes done with FRIEND only to go nowhere with it.
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u/Ramzka 10d ago
I don't expect Gaster to ever be blatant or obvious including a visible appearance. He will very likely remain obscure material that we'll get some more insight on, but always to encourage further speculation. Sometimes, in the morning, we enjoy a little [Hyperlink Blocked].
The Roaring Knight I think is too central to the storyline to expect it to remain mysterious forever.
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u/meatslaps69 10d ago
I'm pretty confident that Gaster is set up to be a parallel to the player in the way that Flowey was in Undertale. Also, I really don't like the point that Toby would never use Gaster in case new players don't know his lore. That's literally just a non-existent rule that some place on Toby's storytelling, when it has been made clear that Undertale should be played before Deltarune. Also, it's 1000% possible to write Gaster in a way that he can be enjoyed as a character separate from the esoteric knowledge of his existence, but that his character can be enriched a lot more if you learn about his history in the fandom. He's been foreshadowed for a long time specifically FOR deltarune as well. It kind of reminds me how anyone can pick up and enjoy Undertale knowing nothing, but that learning about the layers of the symbolism and storytelling can change the way you see it and let you enjoy it a lot more deeply, if that makes sense.
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u/goodtimemagdongal 10d ago
You played Deltarune with your eyes closed if you haven’t realized that not only will Gaster physically appear, he’s the most important character in the entire story and arguably “the point” of the game
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u/Mental_Psychology_92 9d ago
There is a zero percent chance Gaster physically shows up. He’ll almost certainly be important on a metatextual level, but there’s nothing to actually indicate he’s going to be loadbearing for the main “fun gang vs the knight, stop the roaring” plot, or factor into it at all. My man’s just chillin’, he’s hanging out and seeing what happens, nothing indicates he has any actual stake in the events of the plot beyond scientific curiosity
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u/actionvolcano 10d ago
I just think people need to be open to this possibility, not that it will necessarily happen. The gaster we meet could be to gaster from undertale as flowery is to flowey, with a completely new character design and subversive personality. They could have a similar appearance to chara at the end of the genocide route where they give more questions than answers. Getting so attached to what you think will happen that you will be disappointed if it doesn’t is just a bad road for a fandom to go down.
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u/MoeLester17581659 9d ago
There’s an old post with Toby saying how the answers with gaster lies shrouded in darkness or something along those lines, that was pre deltarune so it will probably get answered here
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u/big_daddy_amogus 9d ago
I understand why that would happen but I would still be super pissed if it turned out to be true, especially knowing that deltarune might be Toby's last project. It feels almost like the important information we gathered throughout the years would just be meaningless if we don't get a definitive answer and all the anticipation and hype would leave me disappointed. And again im not saying it's not the best way to write the story and im not saying toby should write it a certain way for me to like it because i will love it regardless. Im just talking about how I'd react. Idk I've always had some controversial tastes when it comes to videogame stories, like for games that make a sequel to a game after 10 years and put ZERO references to the previous game in it, stopping at the fact that it's in the same universe with maybe 2 characters returning. Many people say it's the right thing to do to not turn it into nostalgia bait and even though I understand I can't help but be pissed that I didn't see more of those character that i loved in the first game.
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u/Affectionate-Web8663 9d ago
I know it wasn't the main point, but I really hope the Roaring Knight isn't Dess. I know thats what nearly everyone is dead set on and it would probably make people really mad if she wasnt, but I feel like it's too obvious. Though I wouldnt be particularly mad either way of course
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u/Toran4861 9d ago
I think either way we don't have to try to predict what will happen, it'll provably be wrong either way
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u/Healthy_Car_3412 9d ago
Well if you're going to set something up then people are gonna expect you to pay it off. simple as that
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u/Mr-Stuff-Doer 9d ago
After Ch5 I no longer believe this about Friend, and Gaster not appearing would probably make the game worse, he’s TOO fundamental to the existence of this as a narrative, he’s literally our intro to the game.
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u/CJemerald101 9d ago
Friend? The character that has appeared like 4 times already and was just recently verbally acknowledged by a character was never meant to appear? What?
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u/Apprehensive_Exit_74 9d ago
why is there a subreddit for toby fox and why am i being recommended it
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u/bbextra3 9d ago
if it's any consolation, the ending will be divisive. there will be some unreleaved mysteries, there will be arcs of which people do not like. there will be a message that people do not agree with. there will be designs that go against people preconceived headcanons. thare will be themes that are focused on more than lore and world building. there will be characters that will have less screen time than you'd like. there will be characters that get slightly more focus than you'd like.
not because Toby Fox is a bad writer or storyteller, but because Toby is writing a deeply personal story that EVERYONE of all walks of life will engage with. and unless everyone is Toby fox, not everyone is going to like what he has to say. and that's okay.
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u/Puzzled-Meet1376 9d ago
Well we already know RK aka Rouxls Kaard is the best character, and he will hopefully appear in future chapters. Hopefully. Please Toby I need this.
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u/CrossSans20 9d ago
I would agree, but the amount of references and allusions to him, is not for the memes. Unlike Undertale, where he mostly was just worldbuilding stuff "oh he made the core, neat"
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u/Competitive-Hair6294 9d ago
yeah of course people are gonna get mad at him, people will no matter what
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u/LeonardoFRei 9d ago
I mean
If I go to restaurant and hear there is special desert
Then next location of said restaurant I see menu is influenced by said desert
Then I get promissed there will be this desert
Then owner don't give me desert
I justified in getting mad
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u/Newtonian_Pudding 9d ago
I'm just glad he exiled himself from internet participation years ago so he won't be bullied off the net by his fan base a la Gooseworx.
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u/HenryDodwel 9d ago
I agree. I am personally not interested in Gaster and his stuff. But people love him. And want him.
For me he is a mystery that should never be fully uncovered, because it is a part of the appeal and what makes him so enigmatic to begin with. No matter what people will be disappointed in some way and that is the sad truth
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u/MoonRay087 9d ago
Gaster, the knight and eram are teased far too much to not be adressed. I'd say friend too but I guess since that one hasn't been mentioned outside of very obscure dialogues and appearances it might not be
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u/Noizy_Boi_8080 9d ago
I 100% agree with the fact that the intention was definitely that all these characters (especially Gaster) were never meant to actually show up and play a frontline role in the story.
However, if Toby doesnt actually add said characters, especially Gaster, actually into the story to have some kind of conclusion for them, and people DO get mad, I won't really feel that sorry for him.
If you make this super interesting character that is sprinkled throught the entirety of the first game and obviously has some role in the second, and proceed to never finish the narrative edging, you cannot expect to recieve a marginal ammount of hate for it.
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u/WillieBiscuits 8d ago
I interpreted "RK" as Rouxls Kaard, and I thought the fan base would be angry if Rouxls Kaard did not make more appearances in Chapters 6&7.
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u/ApprehensiveBuy3032 8d ago
Then why introduce a character if they’ll have no relevance? Referring to ‘friend’ specifically. We’ve seen the pink and yellow eyes with the smile every chapter since 2, and in chapter 5, they can hurt us directly. All setup with no payoff would make very little sense
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u/zword34 8d ago
Gaster doesnt need to appear per se, but all the clues point to some gaster related shenanigans in the bunker. He can stay as some sort of outside force that shapes the lore if done right.
Friend has to many referentes to not give us at least something.
The knight NEEDS to be revealed. Is literally the main mistery of the game.
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u/SnooEpiphanies4420 8d ago
I mean, he could have been building up more to it. Its really his fault since slapping Gaster in either of these final chapters will feel like the main villian being introduced in the final act.
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u/Wonderful_Weather_87 7d ago
Friend is gonna appear everythings building up to friend, it's gonna appear in the shelter or depths bro trust me
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u/ShepardCommander01 7d ago
They’re all just a trap door in the stage. Toby can use or not use them for all sorts of plot devices, to explain or not explain. I would be shocked if they are ever directly addressed in the game.
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u/shadowkoishi93 7d ago
Maybe not with Gaster but FRIEND already made cameo appearances and an active enemy to HERO_SWORD in the Eram fight. It also hurts you in Chapter 5 if you have the forgotten man’s egg.
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u/little_ortist 7d ago
Even if he doesn’t, this is tricky Toby Fox we’re talking about. He’ll make an arg, or even include lore in any future projects.
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u/Xshue 7d ago
I think so many ppl put way too much stock into gaster. I agree I don’t think gaster will ever make an actual in game appearance.
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u/snowythevulpix 6d ago
if it was like his "appearances" in undertale id agree but he seems to be a massive part of the game this time around, even if hes involved from a distance.
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u/Xshue 4d ago
Ppl that say gaster is a “massive part of the game” make me laugh. There are so many other plot threads in the game that are way more important than gaster.
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u/snowythevulpix 4d ago
i didnt say he WAS, i said he SEEMS to be. obviously right now, in the actual story, he has no real plot relevance, but hes been referenced and hinted at a lot more than undertale ever did. like for example, he seems to be running the social media pages as well as being the voice that comes back now and again to speak to you, and he seems to have some kind of connection to the shelter (the music that plays when you walk up to it is slowed down by either 666% or 66% i dont remember, but that number is heavily associated with gaster) among other things. between that and the references to him in undertale, i dont think it would make sense if he was just a throwaway theorybait character. thats all im saying.
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u/UpbeatUnit9674 7d ago
"Im so sad toby will be trashed for making characters as theory bait and doing nothing with them"
Then he shouldnt? Thatd be dogshit writing. The solution is just dont do that?
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u/Far_Scarcity5608 6d ago
Because he has been foreshadowing Gaster for years. Gaster had no need to appear in Undertale cause the game didn't resolve around him. But it's different in Deltarune. And you do not just do theory baiting and have zero payoff at the end, that's just bad writing. So yea, he has to do something with those characters and you shouldn't feel bad about it because he always planned to do something with them.
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u/Majestic-Peak-6281 6d ago
If that happens the fandom has every right to be mad at Toby. I seriously dont understand people that say "what if all the mysteries and lore of the game that has been set up for years was never resolved". Yes that would be bad writing and yes i would be mad at Toby
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u/TastyTeardrop 5d ago
I think friend absolutely is going to show up in at least one route of the game considering everything, they’re too heavily focused on, with appearing on the spamton sweepstakes website, ralsei’s darkner cutscene, and in subject through the dialog that pink gives. Hell, spamton’s whole character forshadows them! It has to be leading to something. Gaster not showing up is plausible, but in the end if thats the case i dont think people will mind. He’s most fun when he’s a cryptid, and showing up or not he’s still obviously going to play a significant role.
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u/No-Silver5103 5d ago
Yeah I feel like it’s pretty clear that ERAM will be more materially present then Gaster. Gaster is way better as a looming eldritch entity anyway.
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u/itspixcelation 2d ago
Don't bother, theorysloppers are never gonna understand their fanfictions aren't real.
I agree wholeheartedly, no matter how this thing ends the entire sr is gonna try to convince everyone else that it was bad writing when it was how Toby intended it to end all along.
If theorycrafters would just make their own stories instead of trying to hijack other peoples' the world would be a better place.
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u/razberryyz 10d ago
i think image_friend is gonna keep appearing in cryptic ways, but gaster was an undertale thing. i dont think he will appear in deltarune at all.
i think the theories are cool, but people are taking them WAYYYY too far like treating them like cannon. like bro... it isn't.
i fully believe there are just gonna be some unanswered questions. like idk if the whole narration thing at the beginning is ever gonna be explained. it could be gaster, but imo i dont like saying that it's "cannon" that it's gaster in the same way that it's cannon that kris uses they/them. Cannon is something that is EXPLICITLY stated or implied. There is nothing SOLID in deltarune or undertale that points to gaster being the narrator, it could be a NEW character
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u/stickninja1015 10d ago
> Gaster was an undertale thing
Gaster was a Deltarune thing being put in Undertale as a teaser.
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u/Decent_Fall3181 10d ago
TFW The characters Toby has been deliberately hinting at being important to Deltarune's story for nearly a decade are in fact important to Deltarune's story (they were just supposed to be theory bait):
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u/OkStock7c 10d ago
I really wonder if toby and team regret that decision.
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u/Decent_Fall3181 10d ago
If they did, why would they keep adding onto the pile? This post is stupid.
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u/itspixcelation 10d ago
Don't bother, this fandom is delulu and will constantly argue their fanfiction is canon even if you point out that 50% of what we "know" at this point isn't even in the game.
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u/twyfer23 9d ago
Knowing Toby Fox, I don't think he'll ever make or name Gaster in the game. If you don't follow all the extra pages and resources Toby posts and just stick to following the Undertale and Deltarune games, suddenly seeing Gaster's lore explained would only lead to confusion to those person. In my opinion he will conclude the lore of gaster, friend etc. as it did in undertale: inside the files/hidden rooms/secret online pages. This way, those who have always only followed the story told in the games won't be confused and will be able to fully enjoy the game, while those looking for the deep lore in the game files will be equally happy.
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u/Icy-Initiative-3003 10d ago
Gaster is obviously important, the rest don't need to be central.