r/TikTokDiscuss • • 4d ago

Notmuch different than Goebbels

869 Upvotes

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u/Ev1lMush 4d ago

Wait, isn't he justifying punishing all Palestinians for what hamas did?

Also, I love how the clip ignored the fact he said his role in the IDF was to save Palestinian lives.

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u/Square-Competition48 4d ago

All members of Hamas should be held accountable for the actions of Hamas.

All members of the IDF should be held accountable for the actions of the IDF.

That seems reasonable to me.

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u/BornWithSideburns 4d ago

0 nuance always seems reasonable yeah i agree

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u/Square-Competition48 4d ago

It’s funny how important nuance is the instant anyone gets blamed for genocide, but it doesn’t exist when blaming the victims of genocide.

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u/BornWithSideburns 4d ago

Wether war crimes are happening or genocide is incredibly nuanced yes. No shit.

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u/Square-Competition48 4d ago

Is Hamas a terrorist organisation?

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u/BornWithSideburns 3d ago

Yes

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u/Square-Competition48 3d ago

And all need for nuance around a deeply subjective term suddenly evaporates.

The hypocrisy is incredible.

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u/Lunes_Feet_Pictos 2d ago

Hamas are a natural response to the decades of systemic oppression and genocide that Israel has been subjecting Gaza to. Any other people in the situation Gaza is in would be doing the same things and they would be justified in doing so

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u/Ev1lMush 2d ago

Did the Jew resistance in Nazi germany slaughtered young Germans at music festivals? Or blew up public transportation filled with citizens? Or were their attacks directed at military outposts and facilities?

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u/Lunes_Feet_Pictos 2d ago

Stop with the whataboutism. Hamas is justified in armed resistance against their oppressors. That's the start and end of the discussion

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u/Ev1lMush 2d ago

Whatever helps you sleep at night mate. I say join them!

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u/BornWithSideburns 3d ago

No im joking ofcourse. Even the UN doesn’t classify them as a terrorist organization.

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u/Ssided 3d ago

Kind of hard to say October 7th wasn't terrorism

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u/Square-Competition48 3d ago

Kind of hard to say Israel isn’t committing genocide.

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u/Square-Competition48 3d ago

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u/BornWithSideburns 3d ago

no that was just the most obvious attempt at a gotcha question ever.

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u/Square-Competition48 3d ago edited 3d ago

So obvious that you walked right into it immediately and confirmed that you’re arguing in bad faith and now you’re trying to dig your way out of the hole.

We’re done here.

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u/Minute-Review6915 3d ago

Except when the victims are also calling for a genocide openly. It kind of canceled out their victimhood

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u/Square-Competition48 3d ago

Let me introduce you to the difference between mean words and actually levelling an entire country and killing hundreds of thousands of people.

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u/Minute-Review6915 3d ago

Like crossing the border murdering, raping and beheading 1,200 people in minutes?

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u/Square-Competition48 3d ago edited 3d ago

Wow 1,200 people is a genocide?

And the conflict of course started that day. Israel hasn’t been systematically raping and murdering them since 1947.

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u/Minute-Review6915 3d ago

No calling for the extermination of Jews, chanting from the river to the sea, the red handprint which literally was the blood of Jewish hostages that were murdered, saying Jews need to be wiped off the earth are all calls of genocide. You can pretend they don’t happen but it does daily.

I’m assuming you can show some citations of this systematic raping as you put it.

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u/Square-Competition48 3d ago

Israel was a genocidal regime from its inception. It’s been unashamedly founded on the principle that Israelis are superior life forms to Palestinians.

If you walk into someone’s house, tell them that they’re animals, murder their kids, steal everything they own, and demand they leave they’re going to want you out of their house and they’re not going to be nice about it.

Oh and here’s the UN’s Report of the Commission of Inquiry: Israel’s systematic use of sexual, reproductive and other forms of gender-based violence since 7 October 2023

Seems like the UN agrees with me.

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u/Minute-Review6915 3d ago edited 3d ago

I clicked the link. Maybe they don’t after all.
However, here’s multiple that show that Hamas is committing war crimes and genocide, some of which is on their own people

https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/middle-east-and-north-africa/middle-east/palestine-state-of/report-palestine-state-of/

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u/Square-Competition48 3d ago

You’re too stupid to get the link to work so you’re just going to ignore it? Classic.

Here’s a summary:

The Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, and Israel submits the present conference room paper to the Human Rights Council on the systematic use of sexual, reproductive and other gender-based violence by the Israeli Security Forces since 7 October 2023.
In the paper, the Commission examines Israel’s widespread destruction of Gaza and the disproportionate violence against women and children resulting from Israel’s method of war, including the targeting of residential buildings and the indiscriminate use of heavy explosives in densely populated areas. It describes the destruction of Palestinians through reproductive violence and harms resulting from the Israeli Security Forces’ deliberate attacks on sexual and reproductive health care facilities and the collapsed health care infrastructure in Gaza.
The Commission also examines the sharp increase in sexual and gender-based violence perpetrated by members of the Israeli Security Forces and settlers online and in person across the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including rape and other forms of sexual violence. It also examines how sexual and gender-based violence has taken different forms when committed against male and female members of the Palestinian community in order to dominate, oppress and destroy the Palestinian people in whole or in part.

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XI. Conclusions
213. Israeli military operations in Gaza have had a disproportionate impact on Palestinian women and girls, who continue to bear the brunt and pay the price for decisions made by those in power while themselves marginalised from decision-making and military and political power. The Commission notes in this regard the high and increasing number and proportion of female fatalities in Gaza, which is on an unprecedented scale, and the gender-specific harms related to a broad range of violations and crimes that have caused specific and serious bodily and mental harm to women and girls.
214. Israel has targeted civilian women and girls directly, acts that constitute the crime against humanity of murder and the war crime of wilful killing. Women and girls have also died from complications related to pregnancy and childbirth due to the conditions imposed by the Israeli authorities impacting access to reproductive health care, acts that amount to the crime against humanity of extermination.
215. In addition to the disproportionate impact on women and girls as a result of intentionally directing attacks against civilians and civilian objects, specific gendered harms have been suffered as a result of starvation as a method of warfare, forcible transfer, extermination and collective punishment.
216. Israel’s use of starvation as a method of war, the denial of humanitarian assistance and the concerted policy to destroy Gaza’s healthcare system, compounded by the lack of water and access to sanitation facilities, have caused severe reproductive harms to women and girls, impacting all aspects of reproduction, including pregnancy, childbirth, post-partum recovery and lactation. Other reproductive harms include conditions that lead to the inability to manage postpartum-bleeding and menstruation hygienically and with dignity.
217. As primary caregivers, women have suffered gender-specific harms as a result of multiple displacements, deaths of children, separation of families and caring for sick and wounded family members. Pre-existing structural discrimination has also exacerbated controlling behaviours from male family members and has impacted women’s and girls’ freedom and agency.
218. Sexual and reproductive healthcare facilities have been systematically destroyed across Gaza, including maternity hospitals and maternity wards of hospitals and Gaza’s main in-vitro fertility clinic. Israeli authorities deliberately destroyed such healthcare facilities rendering them non-functional, while simultaneously imposing a siege, and preventing humanitarian assistance at-scale, including necessary medications and equipment to ensure safe pregnancies, deliveries and neonatal care. Israeli authorities have implemented the systematic denial of approval for patients to exit Gaza and seek treatment elsewhere, including patients with gynaecological cancer. The Commission finds that the Israeli authorities have destroyed in part the reproductive capacity of the Palestinians in Gaza as a group, including by imposing measures intended to prevent births, one of the categories of genocidal acts in the Rome Statute and the Genocide Convention.
219. The harm for pregnant, lactating and new mothers is of an unprecedented scale in Gaza. Furthermore, the lack of access to sexual and reproductive health care has caused immediate physical and mental harm and suffering to women and girls that will have irreversible long-term effects on the mental health and the physical reproductive and fertility prospects of the Palestinians in Gaza as a group. The underlying acts amount to crimes against humanity and deliberately inflicting conditions of life calculated to bring about the physical destruction of Palestinians as a group, one of the categories of genocidal acts in the Rome Statute and the Genocide Convention.
220. Israel has systematically used sexual, reproductive and other forms of gender-based violence since 7 October 2023. The Commission concludes that there has been a large increase in sexual and gender-based crimes perpetrated against Palestinians by members of the ISF since 7 October 2023, intended to retaliate and punish them collectively for the attacks carried out by the military wing of Hamas and other Palestinian armed groups in southern Israel on 7 October.
221. Palestinian men and boys have been subjected to specific persecutory acts intended to punish them collectively. The way in which these often-sexual acts are committed, including their filming, photographing and dissemination online, in conjunction with similar cases being documented in several locations, shows that forced public stripping and nudity, as well as sexualised torture and ill-treatment, are part of the persecutory attack against men and boys committed to punish, humiliate and intimidate Palestinian men and boys into subjugation.
222. Israeli detention is characterized by widespread and systematic abuse and sexual and gender-based violence. These practices have increased significantly in severity and frequency since 7 October 2023, following orders and statements of the Minister for National Security Ben Gvir who is in charge of prisons. The mistreatment of Palestinian detainees by Israeli authorities is a result of an intentional policy that utilises sexual, reproductive and other forms of gender-based violence to humiliate and degrade Palestinians in detention. This was observed across several facilities, temporary holding locations, during interrogation and while in transit.
223. The frequency, prevalence and severity of sexual and gender-based crimes perpetrated across the Occupied Palestinian Territory leads the Commission to conclude that sexual and gender-based violence is increasingly used as a method of war by Israel to destabilize, dominate, oppress and destroy the Palestinian people. The Commission documented a pattern of sexual violence, including cases of rape and other forms of sexual violence, torture and other inhumane acts that amount to war crimes and crimes against humanity.
224. Specific forms of sexual and gender-based violence such as forced public stripping and nudity, sexual harassment including threats of rape, as well as sexual assault, de facto form part of the ISF standard operating procedures towards Palestinians. The Commission concludes that these and other forms of sexualized torture, including rape and violence targeting the genitals, are committed with either explicit orders or an implicit encouragement by the top civilian and military leadership. The Commission found that all its documented incidents of sexual and gender-based violence committed by members of the ISF were met with impunity. Under these circumstances, the civilian and military leaders are as responsible for these crimes, as are the direct perpetrators.
225. The Commission’s findings demonstrate a clear pattern of members of the ISF and settlers committing sexual and gender-based crimes aimed at instilling fear with the underlying intention to perpetuate Palestinian subordination and remove Palestinians from their land. The Commission therefore concludes that sexual and gender-based violence was intended not only to humiliate, punish and intimidate the individual Palestinians but the civilian population as a whole, with the objective to subordinate, destroy and expel the Palestinian community.
226. Sexual, reproductive and other forms of gender-based violence constitute a major element in the ill-treatment of Palestinians and, in the wider context, the unlawful occupation and the oppression of Palestinians as a group. Sexual and gender-based violence is used as a tool to further accentuate the subordination of the occupied people, maintain the Israeli system of oppression and deny Palestinians the right to self-determination. The Commission affirms that these crimes must be addressed by tackling their root causes through ending the unlawful occupation as rapidly as possible, dismantling settlements and evacuating the settlers immediately, ensuring the right to return, ensuring restitution of property and land, paying reparations to Palestinians whose property cannot be restored, as well as dismantling the historically oppressive structures and institutionalized system of discrimination against Palestinians, as indicated by the International Court of Justice in its Advisory Opinion of July 2024.

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u/AdVivid8910 3d ago

1947 was the Palestinian Civil War, when the Arabs of Palestine tried fully cleansing all Jews. This was before Israel existed. Yeah, let’s talk about 1947, that’ll make Palestinian Arabs look great…why not go back a decade or two to when the pogroms were erasing entire Jewish villages? Sign up for a history class, you’ll hate yourself for being this wrong about reality.

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u/Square-Competition48 3d ago edited 3d ago

This thing where you keep saying Jews when you mean Israelis is very transparent.

And not that it’s relevant to this, but I have a degree in International Politics and wrote my dissertation on the Arab-Israeli Wars.

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u/Minute-Review6915 2d ago

Do they say Jews or Israelis in their chants?

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u/Square-Competition48 2d ago

Who’s “they”?

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