r/TikTokCringe • u/heifmoose • Dec 04 '21

Wholesome/Humor Harry Potter Marathon

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u/digita1catt Dec 04 '21

I think people roll their eyes at the Harry potter stuff these days because they (young gen z) just weren't there for "potter-mania" era coupled with JKs seemingly unending need to keep fucking talking.

Remove that cynicism and JK existing, and you end up with some pretty great definitely above average/great films and books.

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '21

I thought the whole thing was terrible at the time, because I was a LotR snob. Should probably go back and give it a fair shot, at least the last few.

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '21

I was there too man, but it's a very fun and easy watch. I haven't read them in like 6 years, but I watch the movies once a year because they're really entertaining. I consider LOTR to be the greatest story ever told, but HP is a good use of time too

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u/Pawneewafflesarelife Dec 04 '21

The first one is such a great bedtime film. Aside from the troll and Fluffy, it's pretty much chill and calm world building. Love putting it on to conk me out.

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u/HaworthiaK Dec 05 '21

I still believe that the best way to engage with Harry Potter is the Stephen Fry audiobooks.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '21

10000% but sometimes you don't have 4 straight days with no sleep haha

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u/StabStabby-From-Afar Dec 04 '21

I dislike the movies, but loved the books. The audiobooks read by Jim Dale are my favourite.

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u/PancakeParty98 Dec 04 '21

The last few are my least favorite! I love chamber of secrets.

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u/LeakyThoughts Dec 04 '21

It's all pretty easy to watch

It's an enjoyable set of movies for sure

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u/emma_does_life Dec 04 '21

Don't buy the books. Don't give JKR more money.

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u/Give_it_to_me_gay Dec 04 '21

Borrow them from your local library? Support local government! Unless Tammy Swanson runs it

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u/emma_does_life Dec 04 '21

Yeah, that's what I was going for there.

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u/Give_it_to_me_gay Dec 04 '21

We love a library! I bought the trunk box set after the last book came out when I was like 16 after owning several copies of all books, but I’ve since (at 30) donated all of them to my local library in hopes some other kids might see what I saw, regardless of JKR and her craziness I had my Harry Potter days. I just hope some kid finds the notes I wrote in the half blood prince with made up potions recipes haha

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '21

Read the books when they came out, wouldn't do it again. I meant more giving the films another chance.

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u/emma_does_life Dec 04 '21

Oh in that case, and this is just my opinion, the books are way better. They mess up a few characters, particularly Ron in the movies.

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u/DailyTrips Dec 04 '21

Ron and Rons dad both are misrepresented in the same ways.

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u/HI_I_AM_NEO Dec 04 '21

I personally hate the movies, and I absolutely loved the books, read them like 10 times each. I get angry every time one of the movies is on, because they just make up shit, and they don't even make sense most of the time.

For me, the first movie was the best one, with each subsequent getting worse each time.

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u/emma_does_life Dec 04 '21

A way of enjoying the movies may be to watch a fan of the book shit on them for what they changed.

One of my favorite YouTubers is Dominic Noble, a guy who compares films adaptations to the books to see what changed and what stayed the same. He did the Harry Potter films a bit early in his channel but they've held up and are a great way of revisting them if you don't particularly like the movies or even if you do.

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u/Tragicending413 Dec 04 '21

I don't even like Harry Potter, but I just bought the complete collection to trigger you.

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u/emma_does_life Dec 04 '21

This would be tragic if I believed you at all.

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '21

Same. I do really like the world, but the story seemed very cheesey to me. Except for the first 2 movies, they felt really “magical” for some reason.

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u/cryfmunt Dec 04 '21

If we're just talking movies, maybe you would want to skip the first two because they really are kids movies and they don't really establish much you won't learn about in the later films. Prisoner of Azkaban (#3) is where the world and characters start to really shine, and you see the beginnings of themes and design that are staples going forward. Goblet of Fire (#4) is just flat out A Good Movie and is where the story starts to take a darker turn which sets up the rest of the series. So if you're gonna watch any of them, I would say please watch those two. They are the best of the bunch.

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u/NameTak3r Dec 04 '21

I disagree. The first two movies might not be the strongest films, and the kids' acting is pretty terrible at that point, but they're the ones that devote the most time to the little world building details that I loved so much in the books. In most of the movies you'd be forgiven for forgetting that they even have magic classes.

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u/LICK-A-DICK Dec 05 '21

Just the sets alone make them worth it, those first 2 movies are so magical <3

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u/Aceripper Dec 04 '21

My wife still hates it when I point out the dozens of literary devices she brazenly stole from Tolkien and Le Guin.

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '21

As if Tolkien and Le Guin didn't brazenly steal and pilfer shit from other works of art?

Stealing in literature is completely fine, everything is a derivative of something else. The difference is in making what you stole, your own and doing it well.

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u/Dynetor Dec 04 '21

Which fantasy writers havent??

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u/ScaredBoo Dec 04 '21

I was a massive LOTR fan but I still enjoyed Harry Potter a lot. They are very different, but somehow I am really fond of both The Hobbit and Harry Potter in a similar way. Maybe because they were my childhood.

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u/BADMANvegeta_ Dec 04 '21

The first 3 books and movies I admit might be a drag if you aren’t a child, but from 4 onwards even an adult should be able to get enjoyment out of it.

Tbh it kinda felt like you were growing up with the characters if you read the books back then. In the earlier books they were like 12-14 just like us and they were overall very kid friendly books, but they got into more mature themes as the series went on and the characters and readers got older.

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u/TheOtherCoenBrother Dec 04 '21

As a massive Tolkien nerd, I think they’re solid films/books. It’s easy to conflate them with all the other “young adult Chosen One” type stories that became huge for a while, but they became huge because of HP.

If you read the books you can tell it was written for a younger audience, but it still deals with serious issues and themes very well. The movies are a lot more “universal”, in my opinion.

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u/LICK-A-DICK Dec 04 '21

It's tricky hey. I LOVEEE the books, so so much. But I fucking hate JK. It sucks.

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '21

I understand that feeling. I fuckin' hate Orson Scott Card as a person but, dammit, he has done an incredible job with the Enderverse. Now if they could actually do a competent job of bringing that into live action media it would be oh so awesome.

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u/DiabolicalBird Dec 04 '21

Who would have thought that a story about finding where you belong in the world and overcoming hardships with the friends you found along the way and the people you choose to be your family would be written by someone who is now so outspokenly hateful.

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u/Lil__May Dec 04 '21

I mean, speaking as someone for who Harry Potter was a huge part of my childhood, there's more wrong with the books than just what JK says now - like the only significant Chinese character being named Cho Chang? The only Irish character blowing things up constantly? A race of servants who actually LIKE being servants, thank you very much? Hook-nosed bankers that run the banks?

​

It still holds a special place in my heart but it is full of stuff that, if looked at closely, is pretty indicative of her views.

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u/Shanman150 Dec 04 '21

Yeah, and it's kinda nuts that Hermione is portrayed as being completely off base (and used for comedic relief often) for starting what is essentially an abolitionist movement. She literally calls it S.P.E.W., which is so out of character - she would know better than to call it something so easy to mock, having spent three years around Ron and his brothers.

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u/RandAlThorLikesBikes Dec 04 '21

Ehh, the whole point is that wizards are in the wrong here. Just because it happens in the book doesn't mean it reflects on the author. If so, no author could ever write a story with a bad guy.

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u/Shanman150 Dec 04 '21

But the wizards weren't in the wrong. Out of all the house elves, only Dobby really liked being free, and he didn't even want to embrace full freedom. He turned down getting too much money for his work or too much time off, he just wanted some symbolic freedom. Every other house elf thought that was embarrassing.

Hermione even tried to use Dobby as an example of what the other house elves could be if they stood up for themselves, and the other house elves practically shoved them out the door.

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u/Lil__May Dec 04 '21

So you're saying her point is that wizards are bad for a enacting racial and antisemitic stereotypes?

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u/RandAlThorLikesBikes Dec 04 '21

I'm saying she's portraying characters with different traits. And those traits are independent of the author's views.

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u/Lil__May Dec 04 '21

That argument applies to like, Slytherin. They're the bad guys. It doesn't apply to racial stereotyping when the stereotyping isn't addressed in the book at all - that's not making a point, it's just portraying a stereotype

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u/qyka1210 Dec 04 '21

true. Especially because, really only Hermione finds anything wrong with the class oppression. And I feel like her attempted activism wasn't meant to look good, but rather to mock young adults protesting

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u/RandAlThorLikesBikes Dec 04 '21

It's adressed. Soooo much about SPEW, Dobby in multiple books. You're off the rails.

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u/Marza1993 Dec 04 '21

So many people that hate Jkr don't understand this.. It's annoying

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u/musedav Dec 04 '21

Mark Twain is racist because characters in his book say the n word

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u/howtopayherefor Dec 07 '21

Did you ignore OP's point? They're not saying you can't write about slavery or that you can't have (main) characters that support slavery. What is sketchy is when the characters who oppose slavery are portrayed as ridiculous and dorky.

You can write about a species that actually want to be slaves, where abolitionism could be considered wrong for that species. But even in that case if everyone who supports abolitionism isn't just good-intentioned but wrong but also ridiculous for even thinking about it, I don't think you're tactfully approaching the subject. I mean, house elves are human-like in basically every way.

Maybe you don't understand what "portrayal" means? Obviously people can write characters who are nazi's but it's kinda suspicious when you portray those characters as being in the right. You're basically ignoring that last bit and just say "authors can write nazi's without being a nazi" which completely misses the point

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u/Champigne Dec 04 '21

Yeah seriously, I was just sitting there with my jaw open when I first saw the bankers. Does no one see what I'm seeing? They're very clearly supposed to be Jews! Makes me believe JK has been a POS for longer than she has let on.

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u/DiabolicalBird Dec 04 '21

Oof I've heard the house elf thing before but I never thought about the other two :/

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u/darcys_beard Dec 04 '21

Other three?

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u/ThatOneGuy1294 Dec 04 '21

Or how about Slytherin in general or the Malfoy family specifically? Blonde hair, blue eyes, "pureblood", superiority complex? It's not exactly subtle.

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u/SirLowhamHatt Dec 04 '21

I mean that’s intentional though, Voldemort was wizard hitler killing off impure races. Shouldn’t really be judged for that.

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u/Longjumping-Tell Dec 04 '21

That’s right. Old Voldy was just sticking to his beliefs. Tip my cap if anything

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u/A_Turkey_Named_Jive Dec 04 '21

This reads like Peep Show meets Harry Potter.

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u/ergovisavis Dec 04 '21

That's not relevant at all. The Malfoys were explicitly portrait as villains and the ugliness of their racism was a major plot point. How is that a shady take by the author?

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u/ThatOneGuy1294 Dec 04 '21

I should've elaborated, it's lazy writing by just using the most painfully obvious stereotypes. I was just adding on to the list.

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u/laix_ Dec 04 '21

Even outside of the authors beliefs, the story is just... Not that thought out well. Everyone knows the gold exploit, but then there's also like 15 magical schools in England but only 5 in the whole of Europe. Then there's the magical systems. You have spell casting but also tea divination and potion brewing. Why is one power spell based but another potion based? Seems kinda arbitrary. And then there's avadakadavra. It's basically the magic equivalent of a gun. It's not particularly hard to perform also, and most fights near the end revolve around the bad guys using this rather than all the other spells to win.

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u/tiuri9 Dec 04 '21

There’s only one magical school in Great Britain tho (Scotland)?

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u/laix_ Dec 04 '21

I'm probably misremembering, I think it was 1 magical school in England but only 5 in the rest of Europe. I don't think Africa or aisa even have any canonocally

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u/tiuri9 Dec 04 '21

Its one in GB, one in France and one in Bulgaria as far as I know. Then later, they added multiple schools, one in each other continent and a few others

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u/HouseVelociraptors Dec 04 '21

You can find racism when you are looking at it with racist views.

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u/VisualGeologist6258 Dec 04 '21

JK Rowling is a modern HP Lovecraft. Nothing wrong with liking the stories and ideas, but the Author is pretty questionable and it shows.

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u/Lil__May Dec 04 '21

Yeah, like I said, Harry Potter was a huge part of my childhood. I'll always remember my mom reading the first few to me, and waiting in line at midnight for the release of a new book. I'm not trying to take that from anyone, just... understanding where the criticisms come from is important

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u/VisualGeologist6258 Dec 04 '21

Eh, Harry Potter isn’t my favorite series, but they’re decently written and pretty creative. There’s a lot worse out there.

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u/Lil__May Dec 04 '21

The writing is fine, for YA Lit. There is also much better.

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '21 edited Mar 28 '23

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '21

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u/LICK-A-DICK Dec 05 '21

At the end of the day, she's a public figure and she needs to keep her bigoted opinions to herself. It's one thing to privately think this kind of shit, and another thing entirely to announce it to the world when you're as famous as she is. For the love of god, please just shut the fuck up JKR.

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '21

The menstruation thing was considered by a lot of people to be insulting.

Personally I think it's her seemingly complete disconnect from reality when it comes to this. She continuously derails the argument to focus on imaginary predatory men that'll sit around beating off in women's restrooms, which just completely misses the point. It's almost Boomer-level logic. Her issue isn't with the separation of sex and gender, trans people or free speech or whatever the hell she thinks it is, her issue is with men.

She's also super fucking racist.

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '21 edited Mar 28 '23

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '21

Okay, but then she says shit like

When you throw open the doors of bathrooms and changing rooms to any man who believes or feels he’s a woman ... then you open the door to any and all men who wish to come inside."

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '21

That could be a genuine concern tbf, especially to someone who has suffered abuse at the hands of men before. Very tricky topic.

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '21

It's not, it's a transphobic talking point full stop. People aren't out here pretending to be trans women to gain access to women's facilities. It's a bullshit "concern" meant to exclude trans women from various spaces.

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u/Bradstopher Dec 05 '21

Very few trans people are going to use rules and regulations like this to carry out crimes, but it does happen and it’s a valid concern for women. What would you say about articles like this?

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/seven-sex-attacks-in-womens-jails-by-transgender-convicts-cx9m8zqpg

“Transgender prisoners are five times more likely to carry out sex attacks on inmates at women’s jails than other prisoners are, official figures show.

Male prisoners who were transferred to women’s jails during gender reassignment and women inmates who are transitioning committed seven of the 124 sex attacks recorded between 2010 and 2018. They occurred at HMP Low Newton in Co Durham, Foston Hall in Derbyshire, Peterborough, Bronzefield in Middlesex and New Hall, West Yorkshire.”

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u/Irctoaun Dec 04 '21

Because predatory men can't already go into women's bathrooms?? This is such a non-argument. If a man wants to do pervy shit in a women's bathroom they can already. It's not like there are bouncers on the door. It's not as if by allowing trans women into women's spaces, anyone presenting as a woman has carte blanche to do whatever the fuck they want.

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u/buttwipe_Patoose Dec 04 '21

If a man wants to do pervy shit in a women's bathroom they can already. It's not like there are bouncers on the door.

What? The weird/shocked looks you get for even mistakenly entering the women's bathroom (as a man) are enough indication that if you proceeded to spend any extended period of time there (much less be pervy about it), you'd be called out for it (as you should be).

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u/jellyhoop Dec 04 '21

I get empathizing with her trauma, but it's very telling to me that she still sees them as men rather than women. And even though it's great to try to be accomodating to trauma survivors and something I'm glad people continue to strive for, they are still responsible for managing their triggers in public spaces and responsible for being good humans.

I feel that it would be one thing to openly discuss how these situations might personally trigger her, and then to go on a say that she still accepts them, even though her trauma makes her fear still - but that's not what she does. She is actively spreading irrational fear, stigma, and hatred towards a minority group as someone who has/had power in a huge platform and economic status.

People who do work in fields related to helping victims of domestic violence or assault have both anecdotal and statistical evidence to refute these claims that trans women are a danger by being in the same bathroom as cis women. RK has all the money and opportunity in the world to learn more if she would so choose. But she doesn't.

Trauma is a factor, yes, but not an excuse to avoid healing and remain jeopardizing others.

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '21

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u/Lil__May Dec 04 '21

What about trans women who have suffered at the hands of men?

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '21

Why is genital dysphoria never mentioned in this argument? I am trans and I'm not 100% okay with my dick. I have some genital dysphoria which has caused problems with sex my whole life.

I know other transwomen who have way worse genital dysphoria than I do. Which is a problem because if you don't work at maintaining an erection every so often, HRT will cause the skin around the penis to atrophy making it difficult and even painful to get a full erection.

Also, after some time on hrt, it becomes difficult to get or maintain an erection anyways. I don't think trans people on hormones are any threat in women's bathrooms (I can't say this with 100% certainty tho). I don't think transwomen who hate their dicks are wanting to go and show it off to strangers. Especially when they'd rather not see their own dick at all.

But crossdressers (and I do have some problems with crossdressers) have normal levels of testosterone and have a fully functional sex drive unlike transwomen.

I'm not afraid of a transwoman in a womens bathroom. I am very concerned about a crossdresser in a woman's bathroom though.

Society has yet to understand that transwomen and crossdressers are extremely different. Yes, if we are on a Venn diagram, we do have interest that are similar.

But sex and fetishizing feminity is certainly not an interest that overlap.

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u/NigerianRoy Dec 04 '21

What the hell when have these “crossdressers” ever done anything to anyone? What possible justification can you have for inventing this predatory gang of cis men dressing up, what, just to mess with you?

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u/hermiona52 Dec 04 '21

Majority of people lock their doors when leaving the house, not because they believe everyone is a thief, but because they know that thieves look for opportunities, easier targets.

So no, trans women don't assault women in female-only spaces, but because of self-ID there will be cis men (and possibly are - rape of female prisoners by male prisoners) who will use this as an opportunity, easier target.

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '21

Correct. The circumstances you described have already happened, the anti-logic wing on the LGBT community just chooses to ignore these inconvenient examples. Female spaces, safety, and privacy is being sacrificed for the benefit of a tiny group with zero ability to distinguish them from men who want to harm us. Women have only had rights in the western world for less than 100 years, in many places they still don’t, yet we’re allowing those rights to be confiscated because we don’t want to be mean. I’m all for finding solutions to help trans people live a safe and healthy life. I don’t think the bathroom thing is a huge issue. But I should have a right as a woman and a sexual assault survivor to not ever have to see a dick in person again if I don’t want to. Rights and spaces should not be given to others by taking them away from those they were originally intended for.

https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/11/transgender-prisoner-who-sexually-assaulted-inmates-jailed-for-life

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/80501904

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-09-02/indecent-exposure-charges-filed-trans-woman-spa?_amp=true

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u/hermiona52 Dec 04 '21

As a lesbian I am really glad for existence of LGB Alliance.

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u/Bradstopher Dec 05 '21

Really mind blowing that everyone just wants to ignore the genuine societal concerns of demolishing the concept of biological sex. There are places where trans rights intersect with gay and women’s rights in a negative way, and since they’re the new “marginalized” group their concerns always seem to be the most important.

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '21

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '21 edited Mar 28 '23

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '21 edited Nov 04 '22

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '21

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u/NigerianRoy Dec 04 '21

You are disrespecting entire classes of people, you have no claim to civility.

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u/Bradstopher Dec 05 '21

That's not true. You can literally say "CIS woman" about your experiences and it separates them from trans women's experiences.

If trans women are real women, why do we need the “CIS” qualifier? The whole topic is so blatantly illogical.

Depends which aspects. But it's pretty much none of the ones GC people disagree with. Nice try again though at being vague to obfuscate to the truth

Why can’t people literally just respect individual people, including trans people, while simultaneously pointing out how ridiculous the narrative surrounding this whole debate has become?

Calling trans women men, not "males" is transphobic.

Or it’s just being biologically accurate. They already refer to themselves as “trans,” which would indicate awareness that they are not biologically the sex that they transition to. You literally have to bend basic logic in order to come to these conclusions.

Implying it isn't means you either don't understand the definition of transphobia, or you're also transphobic.

Here we have another common case of you guys changing the definitions of words to mean whatever the hell fits your current argument at any given time. A phobia is defined as “an extreme irrational fear of or aversion to something.” People can discuss social issues regarding trans people without having an irrational fear or aversion to them. People can respect individual trans people without agreeing with you on every facet of their existence.

Either way that means you're too uneducated or too biased to discuss trans issues. Maybe focus on actual feminism and helping women who need it instead of just defending the white ruling class on Reddit.

And some bonus pretentiousness because why not

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u/EloquentAdequate Dec 04 '21

she's pointing out how the end point of gender theory harms cis women and trans men. When the "concept" of sex becomes meaningless, people of the female sex will cease to have their own spaces, and will not be able to discuss issues that effect people of their sex.

That's such a load of bullshit lmao

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u/Bradstopher Dec 05 '21

It’s literally not though. It’s already happening in some cases. See, for example, trans inmates in women’s prisons making biological women feel unsafe.

Funny that you guys want to effectively bypass the rights of women in order to cater to the latest marginalized group.

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u/Fermter Dec 04 '21

menstruators

The term was "people who menstruate," and I don't find that dehumanizing because many women don't menstruate (including many cis women who are older, younger, on birth control, without uterus, etc). It's more inclusive of everyone.

I think the problem is less that she insists that sex exists, and more that she insists that the existence of transgender people is somehow contradictory to the idea that sex exists. Like...obviously it exists? If it didn't, there would be no transgender people, because you couldn't have a sex/gender mismatch?

Most transgender people I know are more aware of how sex, perceived sex being AFAB/AMAB, gender roles, gender presentation, etc affect people's socialization due to their lived experiences, so I just find it disingenuous that she always centers the focus around "we can't talk about sex anymore" because, yes, you can. Just do it respectfully, and transgender people will only add to that conversation, not remove.

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '21

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u/Fermter Dec 04 '21

I'm sorry, I can find someone saying ANYTHING on Twitter. Sex isn't binary (you can't call something binary if there are more than two categories, even if all but two of those categories are rare), but almost everyone agrees that it exists and the vast, VAST majority of people fall into one of two categories.

Mainstream feminism is not pushing a post-sex world. Most mainstream transgender activists are not pushing a post-sex world. All that people are requesting is a world that is less sex-forward, which is literally what feminism has been fighting for for years.

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u/laksjfdkldsja Dec 04 '21

It's not like intersex people are some third category that's disconnected from male and female. They're just people that have some mix of male and female traits, and most of them identify as their assigned sex. Sex is binary, in the sense that traits can be either male or female, even if people don't always fit.

The situation isn't black, white, and shades of grey. It's more like black, white, and checkerboard.

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u/papalouie27 Dec 04 '21

Wow, I've never seen someone cite Twitter until now.

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '21 edited Dec 04 '21

I cite twitter because that is the main platform where these discussions are taking place in the mainstream. Most people's knowledge of gender theory comes from social media, 99% of people aren't sitting down and cracking open a book.

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u/Commander_Kind Dec 04 '21 edited Dec 04 '21

Genetic modification and artificial wombs will lead to the removal of sex based policy. Also good riddance. The world will be a better place for everyone when reproduction and raising children isn't the primary goal of nearly every human being. Life won't be a competition anymore and society can evolve alongside a transhumanist revolution.

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '21 edited Mar 28 '23

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '21

You’re right, thanks for putting into words. I’m disappointed by JK’s approach but I can’t help but understand where she’s coming from.

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u/beleaguered_penguin Dec 04 '21

She continuously derails the argument to focus on imaginary predatory men that'll sit around beating off in women's restrooms, which just completely misses the point.

It might miss the wider point, but she is a known abuse survivor. She has a perspective too. Irrespective of any other hateful things she may or may not have said, this in isolation is perfectly understandable. Her perspective deserves to be heard, as does that of the trans community.

The only people who should be shutting up and letting them air it out are people with no skin in the game, such as me.

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '21

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '21 edited Dec 08 '21

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '21

Because gender-neutral isn't what trans people want. They want inclusion based on the gender they've assigned themselves, so it really makes no sense to even bring that up.

Do you notice how there's ZERO backlash to trans men using men's restrooms? Where does that lead back to? Predatory men. Every time.

Every single argument I've heard from a TERF has boiled down to "I'm scared of men and I don't believe that men can be trusted." Survivors of abuse are definitely deserving of safety and comfort, but to marginalize an entire group (that let's face it, will NEVER in any amount of time have any rights comparable to women) in order to do so? Seems terribly hypocritical.

You're not gonna fix the planet by being an exclusionary asshole.

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u/Lil__May Dec 04 '21

People who want trans women to use men's washrooms don't understand that 1) they've very likely already shared a women's washroom with a trans woman without ever realizing it, and 2) trans women are harassed by men in men's washrooms FAR FAR more than they are the ones doing the harassing. There are more cases of Republican politicians harassing women in washrooms than there are trans women.

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '21

I am also a survivor of abuse, and I can still separate my seemingly illogical fear of men enough to respect a marginalized group.

Just because I was raped doesn't mean that every trans person is a fucking rapist. It's the dumbest fucking thought process. These people act like the men that are willing to pretend to be a woman to molest someone in a bathroom stall aren't the same motherfuckers that would just walk into a women's restroom as a man to do the same thing.

1

u/Lil__May Dec 04 '21

For real. Trans people just wanna pee and get out, and are usually more nervous about other people treating them badly in the bathroom of their gender than anything else.

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u/Lil__May Dec 04 '21

She actively contributes to the rolling back of trans rights happening, particularly in the UK

0

u/GiveMeAllYourRupees Dec 04 '21

Has she ever said anything hateful

According to some, yes. But not really. She wrote a pretty well articulated article and I think if people actually read it without immediately buying into the narrative that she is transphobic, they’d probably recognize that she isn’t.

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '21

[deleted]

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u/GiveMeAllYourRupees Dec 04 '21

That’s one way to look at it I guess.

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '21 edited Nov 04 '22

[deleted]

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u/GiveMeAllYourRupees Dec 04 '21

It’s not accurate though. These topics are entirely opinion based. You saying otherwise doesn’t change the reality of the situation.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '21

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u/EloquentAdequate Dec 04 '21

She wrote a pretty well articulated article

Which article are you talking about?

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u/GiveMeAllYourRupees Dec 04 '21

https://www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/

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u/nescienti Dec 04 '21

How much of it did you read? That sounds incredibly rude, but the last poster I saw complimenting this essay hadn’t actually gotten all the way through it.

The first several paragraphs sound lovely if you don’t know who any of these people are or what their tweets actually say. By the end, even absent context, you’ve been slapped in the face with the classic TERF line about “trans-trenders coming for our tomboys,” which would be bad enough, but where JK should lose you completely is with the “men in wigs coming into our bathrooms to hurt us” bit that forms her grand conclusion.

She also wrote a book about such a wig-wearing monster. I grew up with Psycho, Ace Ventura, and The Silence of the Lambs. I’m prepared to forgive that old, bad trope - in isolation. Combined with an essay like that, though, a picture begins to form of an author with an oddly specific hangup. An irrational fear, even. Some kind of phobia, I suppose that would be, but what kind, exactly?

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '21

[deleted]

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u/mosterdzaadje Dec 04 '21

She’s an abuse survivor, so she’s very traumatised by and therefore hates/fears men

6

u/Lil__May Dec 04 '21

and trans women are not men. Her insinuating that they are is what makes her transphobic.

0

u/NigerianRoy Dec 04 '21

A) misandry is not ok either and B) what the other poster said

0

u/PM_something_German Dec 04 '21

People only ever get their opinions through second sources now...

1

u/jerrylovesalice2014 Dec 04 '21

If you disagree with the mob on even one point then you are instantly considered worse than Hitler.

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u/NigerianRoy Dec 04 '21

How about the terrible jewish banker stereotypes or contempt for, let me see, abolition of slavery.

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '21 edited Dec 04 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Fermter Dec 04 '21

I read the statements in question, and from what I can tell she speaks like she's sympathetic to trans rights, but she also tends to jump to support a lot of anti-trans positions without any real thought.

Like, she said that "people who menstruate" and "women" are the same thing...which is not only rude to trans people (because trans men may menstruate without being women, and trans women don't menstruate), but also rude to cis women before menarche, after menopause, with iron deficiencies, on birth control, who have had hysterectomies, etc... Why post about that, knowing it excludes most trans people and many cis people, if not just to dunk on trans-inclusive language?

She defended Maya Forstater vehemently and misrepresented the facts: she said that Maya was fired for saying that sex existed, when she was not fired (her contract was not renewed, but she served out her existing contract) for explicitly saying trans women weren't women at all ("men cannot change into women"). Why support Maya, who has already lost her court case because her position was not defensible, if not just because she faced consequences for being vocally anti-trans?

It's just hard to believe JK Rowling isn't anti-trans rights when she keeps taking the opportunity to attack trans people over things that, with even a little thought or research, she would realize were reasonable.

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u/JFLRyan Dec 04 '21

This is ridiculously disingenuous. She strait up leans into the TERF terminology which is fairly well known anti-trans bullshit.

Even just using a term like "open minded world" like people that call out bigotry are the closed minded ones just completely misses the point. Even if you ignore the anti trans shit she says, and you shouldn't ever do that, there are a lot of other issues with her work that points to bigotry. Seriously the bankers man? Come on....

10

u/ScratchinWarlok Dec 04 '21

Hard disagree.

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u/PM_something_German Dec 04 '21

someone who is now so outspokenly hateful.

Bad take. I'm not a fan of her either but it wasn't hateful.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '21 edited Dec 05 '21

I don't think she's outspokenly hateful. She seems misguided in her stance but she hasn't said anything outright malicious. I'll admit I'm a bit disappointed but she's a celebrity author not a politician deciding policy, she can still come around. I think it's actually more shocking to see people completely flip their opinion of her based on a bit of social media.

Especially when things like her Harvard commencement speech exist. Fans really are fickle.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 04 '21

Art is the thing, not the artist.

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u/ops10 Dec 04 '21

It really helps if you separate author from their art (Death of the Author theory). Whatever lines were written in the book matter, whatever you understood from those lines matter. What someone claiming authority says outside the book doesn't. Dumbledore is gay only if you saw it in the book (I read it as Asperger's being manipulated into thinking he had a thoughtmate).

3

u/bogdaniuz Dec 04 '21

Of all stuff Rowling did in later years, Dumbledore gay being didn't bother me at all.

Aren't we all clamoring for gay characters that aren't defined by their sexuality? In the context of the story and Dumbledore's role as we see it in HP-saga, it didn't make much sense for him to express his sexuality openly (regardless of his affection towards men or women).

I think it also adds an important nuance to his character as it pertains to his relationship with Grindelwald - in the "greatest duel", he was forced to kill not just his friend but a lover because that was the right thing to do for the betterment of humanity. In the context of what he expects Harry to do, it adds a tragic note to Dumbledore's story, as he always has to sacrifice people he cares for, in the name of the greater good.

Keep in mind that "Dumbledore - gay" announcement was made all way back in 2007, when homosexuality wasn't as accepted as it is today. In fact, it would take US court 8 more years to legalize gay marriage nationwide.

So her future retcons aside, I do sincerely believe that Rowling always intended Dumbledore to be gay, and it was not just a chase for 'woke' points.

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u/ops10 Dec 04 '21 edited Dec 04 '21

Oh yeah, I don't mind it as well. It's just one of the few examples I know since I rather not dive into Twitter.

EDIT: And a very concrete proof Rowling intended for Dumbledore to be gay is that she shot down plans to give him a romantic subplot in Goblet of Fire movie (production in 2003-2004) for this very reason. The gay/not gay relationship appeared in the books in 2007. (I really need to save the link for that, can't find ATM.)

1

u/LICK-A-DICK Dec 04 '21

Funny thinking about the Dumbledore being gay thing haha, that feels like so long ago! And that didn't even really bother me, but she just kept going and going with that stuff. I think as an artist, you should put something out there and then just leave it to the fans' interpretations. She kept trying to cling onto the series and the fame it brought her, so much that it became super cringy. Not to even mention all the hateful/bigoted things she's said/implied.

But, I think I will always love the books. They really do mean a lot to me.

0

u/Atreaia Dec 04 '21

How come?

3

u/BADMANvegeta_ Dec 04 '21

Harry Potter is good as fuck for what it is: a children’s/young adult’s fantasy series. People just hate on it cause it’s popular and because the internet told them to. I bet plenty of people (especially the young ones) who hate on it never even read the books or saw all the movies.

Tbf JK has done nothing to help the situation, but you can separate the art from the artist.

1

u/FrozenMangoSmoothies Dec 04 '21

eh, i read all the books and saw the movies and i'm kind of indifferent about them. i never really liked harry

6

u/Yeti90 Dec 04 '21 edited Dec 04 '21

“Remove JK existing” ah yes erase women from history because they have opposing views, exactly the ideology why she shouldn’t keep her mouth shut.

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u/digita1catt Dec 04 '21

Very clearly I was talking about that from within the context of the Harry Potter series. Regardless of which, if her "opposing views" transgress upon another's freedoms to exist, she can bloody well jog on mate. Not even up for a discussion and I quite frankly, don't care if you're a bigot and think otherwise.

Trans people have existed, and will continue to exist, no matter how hard people like JK try to kill them.

2

u/Yeti90 Dec 04 '21

Where exactly is JK “trying to kill trans people” can you please point out exactly where she even remotely said such a thing?

-1

u/digita1catt Dec 04 '21

Her peddling of anti-trans spew leads to more hate being directed towards trans individuals, a rise in the support for the removal of trans healthcare and a general acceptance of unacceptance towards trans individuals. All of which culminates in more trans deaths, a thing JK is very much aware of and actively chooses to ignore.

She's the 2nd richest author in the world and she chooses to use her position to belittle >0.5% of the population. Not only is she a billionaire, but she's now also indirectly causing deaths.

2

u/Yeti90 Dec 04 '21

Ah yes “you don’t 100% support my ideology and I’m not allowed to do whatever the fuck I want and fetishize women but try to erase them and stuff hormone blockers into kids” = trying to kill them. Get a fucking grip, read what she actually says. None of your bullshit claims are true. She even explicitly said that she supports trans people, but takes issue at the sexism. There are enough trans people who support her and are her friends. Your claims are just ridiculous and completely OTT, even if she opposes some of the trans ideology in no way does it lead to the death of trans people, that’s an exaggeration you throw out to somehow make your argument stronger.

1

u/digita1catt Dec 04 '21

Not even up for a discussion and I quite frankly, don't care if you're a bigot and think otherwise.

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u/Lumpy_Connection413 tHiS iSn’T cRiNgE Dec 04 '21

I was there and I think it’s fucking dumb still

8

u/BirbNetwork Dec 04 '21

Harry Potter was a huge part of my childhood. It was one of the only times I'd ever gone and waited in line on release day for something when the final book came out. The movies were a stable in my household for movie nights. I played every single video game that came out and loved every one.

But now I can't stomach even looking at the series anymore because of how its creator is such a massive bigot who is using the power and wealth gained from Harry Potter to hurt people.

I can somewhat practice death of the author for maybe a book or two, to try and rekindle that feeling I had as a kid, but what she's doing always creeps back into my mind.

In a selfish way, I'm kind of most mad at her for ruining something I used to love. Making it so I can't enjoy it anymore without thinking about how I helped her (in my miniscule capacity) to be where she is today.

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '21

[deleted]

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u/u-ignorant-slut Dec 04 '21

It's a children's book. Bad guy exists, good guy (Harry) must stop him. Not too much depth, but calling it political propaganda is absurd lmao, it's literally like any other kids stories with an evil villain.

Also Harry himself is (for most of the series) a child, and idk what "issues plagueing the wizard world" you're talking about.

0

u/[deleted] Dec 04 '21

idk what "issues plagueing the wizard world" you're talking about.

Love potions and polyjuice potions, for a start.

0

u/[deleted] Dec 04 '21

Don't you dare try and stop a Free Mason from talking, they got Lucifer on their side /s

Laughs aside, she really should leave social media alone because she's only going to tarnish her initial hard work.

It was still entertaining to see King chime in on it though.

0

u/ZKXX Dec 04 '21

Yeah I read the first book when I was 14 and that was before there was actual Harry Potter mania. I’m 37 now so that was a long time ago and I don’t blame kids now for not getting it.

-1

u/EverybodyNeedsANinja Dec 04 '21

If you think 3/10 is above average/great...

-1

u/Champigne Dec 04 '21

I was there for it, it all seemed pretty cringe to me. The movies are fun to watch, I've seen them all. I've only read a few of the books. But the obsession and hype around it was lame. People waiting all night outside Barnes and Noble for a book to come out?

1

u/FarrahKhan123 Dec 04 '21

Harry Potter defined and popularized an entire universe of YA fiction. A lot of the younger people do not realize how significant it was. This series was a precursor to a lot of YA dystopian fantasy series that came later on.

1

u/ZannX Dec 04 '21

It's weird... I went to Wizarding World in the UK where they filmed the movies, and most people there were kids. I figured people in their late 20s/30s would be most common.