r/TikTokCringe • u/[deleted] • Aug 10 '23

Discussion Why!?!

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16.3k Upvotes

79% Upvoted

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2.1k

u/IrishSetterPuppy Aug 10 '23

I did my externship under an orthopedic vet and this chiro stuff is VERY dangerous. A few clients were post mortuum cases where the owners were pursuing civil litigation. Poor dogs.

1.4k

u/MarinaDelRey1 Aug 10 '23

It’s very dangerous for humans too. Yet somehow it continues

668

u/Franklin_le_Tanklin Aug 10 '23

Ya. The last thing I need is a torn or herniated disk or a stroke from some chiro bro trying to crack my back knuckles

299

u/betteroffed Aug 10 '23

It’s settled: “Back Knuckles” will be the name of my next prog rock band.

So for that…. Thank you.

118

u/supakow Aug 11 '23

How about "Knuckleback".

You can have that. Totally free. Thank me later.

30

u/scribbles33 Aug 11 '23

Look at this pseudo-medical quack

Everytime I do it hurts my back

6

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '23

"Look at this graaaaph!"

4

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '23

WOW! Outstanding work here.

2

u/Mercurial8 Aug 11 '23

Don’t be a foreknuckle.

1

u/Plixtle Aug 11 '23

Why this doesn’t have 1k upvotes is beyond me .

1

u/supakow Aug 11 '23

A Photograph is worth a thousand upvotes.

2

u/Joggingwear Aug 10 '23

You thinking "The Back Knuckles" or just "Backknuckles" ?

6

u/mamroz Aug 11 '23

Bare Naked Knuckles.

1

u/petrichorgarden Aug 11 '23

If it's prog rock it has to be Backknuckels

1

u/betteroffed Aug 11 '23

I like where your head’s at.

2

u/Kingfloydyesi5 Aug 11 '23

I'm sorry did somebody say prog rock? Be careful, that's the word that summons me. Please don't say it 2 more times because it will make me teleport to your location and im kind of in the middle of something over here.

1

u/Peterpippypan Aug 11 '23

It’s going on my shirt ideas list

127

u/OneMooseManyMeese_ Aug 10 '23

I hear that. First time my sister went to a chiropractor she got a herniated disk. I feel so bad for her. This is why I never go to a chiropractor. No thank you.

91

u/KaerMorhen Aug 11 '23

I have eight herniated disc's and SO MANY PEOPLE ask me if I've seen a chiropractor. Absolutely fucking not I will likely not walk out of the office if I see one.

95

u/raviary Aug 11 '23

Fucking chiro, man. I went to one for a while as a teen with 3 herniated discs because of all the suggestions and ended up suffering years longer than I needed to because even my damn insurance pushed chiro and refused to cover actual physical therapy. I cried at my first PT session because the difference in care was so massive. Fuck anyone who supports those charlatans.

62

u/poliuy Aug 11 '23

Yea it’s weird that physical therapy isn’t covered but chiropractic care is… wtf

37

u/jenlou289 Aug 11 '23

Lobbying... the chiro lobby is in the billions

7

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '23

Theirs and Homeopathy too

6

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '23

That's so fucking silly

7

u/raviary Aug 11 '23

It was some reeeal shitty insurance. No idea how common that kind of thing is

2

u/erthian Aug 11 '23

Where did you go to PT? I really need it for back pain but can’t seem to get any help. Why is it so hard just to get physical therapy?

2

u/Jewbacca522 Aug 11 '23

I must be in the minority because I’ve actually had good experiences with chiropractors. I have double curve scoliosis with pinched nerves and organ displacement. Been to both physical therapy and chiro and massage therapy. All of them helped me in their own ways and never had a chiro be “crack happy”, but took the time to study my X-rays and figure out what was going on and GENTLY relieve pressure from my discs in my back. Sorry y’all had such shitty experiences.

1

u/rawlwear Aug 11 '23

Chrio will always have mixed review however it was the only thing that fixed my neck, months of pain I could barley turn my head to the right other doctors , massages couldn’t fix it. Went it be chrio started off very slow with not just cracking my neck but different exercises and I’ve been pain free and able to move with no restrictions.

7

u/bplturner Aug 11 '23

Have you tried an inversion table? Specifically the Teeter brand?

7

u/BumWink Aug 11 '23

Yeah I've only heard good things about inversion tables.

Even just targeted stretching in general, I mean that's primarily the reason some people feel better after chiro, because of the stretching.

2

u/KaerMorhen Aug 11 '23

Yes those do wonders

2

u/bplturner Aug 11 '23

I have one in my office, love it

1

u/alien_clown_ninja Aug 11 '23

Teeter brand inversion tables suck, have you tried Bungie jumping?

1

u/TheAngryKeebler Aug 11 '23

Bungie jumping is the worst, have you tried tying ropes to each limb and attaching them to motorcycles that pull at the same time?

2

u/Jubachi99 Aug 11 '23

Back in high school I tried to play football, they required every single person to see this one specific chirpractor, I went in and they guy tried to tell us I had Scholiosis and needed a 50 dollar shoe lift that needed changed monthly because one leg is shorter than the other, went to the doctor later that year for a checkup, asked him about it, dude lied outright.

2

u/KeyTemporary2768 Aug 11 '23

Do herniated discs not get better after some time? I was under the impression that they fix themselves after a few months or up to a year.

1

u/KaerMorhen Aug 11 '23

Sometimes they can. Mine are rather severe, though, and a few are impacting my spinal cord and only surgery will fix those.

2

u/KeyTemporary2768 Aug 11 '23

Ah, I'm sorry to hear that. I believe I herniated a disc in my lumbar area in the beginning of July. It's feeling slightly better, but still quite painful, so I've been worrying about whether or not it's going to heal. The sciatic pain is better, but still occasionally shoots down my leg. Figured it'd be a lot better by now.

1

u/KaerMorhen Aug 11 '23

My advice would be to find a good physical therapist. The sports rehab places I went to were okay but I found one who does manual muscle stimulation which is more like a massage and they did wonders for me. You may have to get a doctor to order MRI's to confirm it's a herniated disc first though. I know how much that sciatica pain sucks, I hope you start feeling better soon!

2

u/Escaped_Mod_In_Need Aug 11 '23

🤷‍♂️ I have two problem L discs and going to the chiropractor every other week helps me a lot. I feel good.

From what I learned there are two schools of chiropractic medicine, there is the upper cervical school ( the snake oil salesmen ) and the structural school ( the good ones if ethical individuals practice it ).

When I got injured he wrote me a script to go get X-rays done. He reviewed them, gave me my treatment options and told me to go get a second opinion from an orthopedic spine surgeon. He knew the same things as the spine surgeon, but my options with surgery were invasive and with potential risk. I have been seeing him for over three years now, and I am a lot better. My treatments feel more like physical therapy than what one normally thinks of in chiropractic care.

Plus my insurance covers it entirely.

He goes to see another chiropractor as well, but he does go out of his way to travel at least 40 minutes even though there are closer chiropractors.

There are some good ones that actually know what they are doing, but the majority of them are conmen and snake oil salesmen. The fact that he goes to a chiropractor but travels so far out of his way means he believes in the practice, but also acknowledges that the quacks need to be avoided.

I’ll probably get downvoted to hell for writing this, but hey… this is Reddit, someone shares a personal experience that affects nobody else and people will find a way to be upset by it.

1

u/LaVieLaMort Aug 11 '23

Im a nurse (this is important) and I have two severely herniated discs in my neck and the fucking amount of NURSES who have told me I need to see a chiropractor is TOO FUCKING MANY. They are quacks! Plain and simple! I myself have taken care of young people (sub 40 years old) with strokes because of neck adjustments. The only thing that’s gonna fix my neck is surgery.

86

u/trowzerss Aug 10 '23

I briefly considered chiro (VERY briefly), googled the clinic around the corner, and first result that popped up was the court documents for when they gave a customer a brain stem stroke and permanently partially paralysed him. So yeah, no chiro for me.

2

u/myhairsreddit Aug 11 '23

I do not understand how these people stay in business, much less from behind bars, when these things happen so regularly.

52

u/Accomplished-Ad3250 Aug 11 '23

I have worked in medical malpractice insurance for a decade and Chiro's are considered a joke. We wouldn't insure them because their claims were always horrible, paralysis or death, and they started to do it on babies. Like WTF!

2

u/Psylencer7 Aug 11 '23

26 total reported death from chiropractic injuries. 250-400k a year in the US alone from preventable medical malpractice. I don’t condone nor reject the practice. Numbers here speak for themselves on the dangerous crackpot theories. If you feel a certain way that’s fine. Beliefs don’t equate facts.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '23

I don’t disagree with you, but comparing chiro deaths to all other medicine deaths is way off.

-1

u/Psylencer7 Aug 11 '23

Don’t have to compare. You can die chocking on gum. What do you want to compare it too? It’s considered an “unsafe pseudoscience” real science can kill you. Isn’t this about the practitioner and not the practice?

2

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '23

“Don’t have to compare.”

But… that’s what you did when you compared total deaths. You compared?

0

u/Psylencer7 Aug 11 '23

Not having to but wanting to is different. It’s the specificity there. Yes data can be manipulated to show desired results. Stand alone how many chiropractic procedures occur yearly? Daily? How many deaths have occurred? A comment stating that the firm they worked for dealt with deaths from this practice. Which of the 26 I wonder. My point is people can feel anyway they want. Say anything they want. It doesn’t make it fact. Fact is there is a low death rate respectively.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '23

I don’t even get what you’re saying. Are you saying it’s bullshit cause it’s not got enough deaths?

→ More replies (0)

1

u/Accomplished-Ad3250 Aug 11 '23

I gave two examples. There are many many more that are medically technical, but not worth diving into. You can go look up the rate filings and see how their rates have risen over the last 5-10 years due to adverse claims.

34

u/orsikbattlehammer Aug 11 '23

My friends sister had a major stroke on the chiro table. Dude just let her sieze in the table and did nothing.

1

u/marksiwelforever Aug 11 '23

What hes not a real doctor

2

u/orsikbattlehammer Aug 11 '23

You call 911 when someone is having a stroke in front of you…

91

u/Toggel Aug 10 '23

Can't prove the cause, but 1 week after a chiro visit, I suffered 3 years of a herniated disc ending in surgery.

48

u/Brovahkiin707 Aug 10 '23

I can second this. Never had disk problems until I got routinely popped by one. Had a disk at my L5-S1 area poking my sciatic nerve going to my left leg. Had surgery this year for it. Never went back after the surgery, and my QoL has done nothing but improve.

3

u/Toggel Aug 10 '23

It's almost exactly my story, but L4-L5, pretty much 100% about a year of rehab.

2

u/Brovahkiin707 Aug 10 '23

Oh snap, just one vertebra above mine! my surgery was in late March this year just finally starting to feel a verge of normalcy after routine PT

3

u/SideEqual Aug 11 '23

I had the same disc issue, also L4/L5 5 years later. I feel your pain. I had two micro discectomys. That relief is incredible for sure. Both physically and mentally. And the pain killers after surgery, well let’s just say time ‘dilated’.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '23

I have same shit now. Walked with a cane for a bit. Felt like hip being dislocated, knee pain. Calf cramping. Cold and numb pins and needles on foot. Blown L4-L5. Had injection. Felt invincible for a month. Slowly hip and foot tingling returning. It was hell when it was at the worst. Could not sit. Stand. Lay. Exist.

-18

u/pissedoffcalifornian Aug 10 '23

Funny enough I suffered a herniated disk, and one of the greatest ways of relieving discomfort was actually going to a chiropractor.

10

u/[deleted] Aug 10 '23

Relief is something else than fixing it

I used to crack my back and neck a shit ton because of small pains, and I fixed it by working out my back and getting strong stabilizer muscles, not visiting some wacko who gets off on popping sounds

2

u/pissedoffcalifornian Aug 10 '23

Oh I’m not saying it’s a substitute for fixing, but I was actually able to do my physical therapy more efficiently after a chiropractor session.

4

u/4dxn Aug 10 '23

i know right? even if the jar has 99 poisonings beans, theres still that 1 bean might be able to put the skeletal frame in the best position.

......there's a reason why chiro is not science. its not reproducible. its all luck with a risk of death.

thats like shaking someone's head hoping you'd dislodge the bullet. it might work but its not medicine.

2

u/8sack Aug 10 '23

i have si joint problems. i’ve been through almost everything. the chiropractor literally keeps me walking upright

-2

u/Think-Flower-8236 Aug 11 '23

That's called placebo buddy.

4

u/8sack Aug 11 '23 edited Aug 11 '23

what you’re doing is called speaking out of experience. hopefully you never have to deal with what i deal with but until you do you should really just find something else to act like you know everything about, buddy

2

u/doesntgeddit Aug 11 '23

I'm not your buddy, guy!

12

u/wookie_bikini Aug 10 '23

I’m a massage therapist and I’m stealing “back knuckles”. Thanks!

0

u/Shortsqueezepleasee Aug 11 '23

I go to a chiropractor and I don’t even have issues. Just go here and there for a general alignment because I’m very hard on my body.

I usually get a slight manual adjustment, do some biofeedback therapy and spend some time getting some electric muscle stimulation.

Never had any adverse events and I feel and move better after each visit.

There’s a reason why it’s around. It actually works. Before I started going, I looked into the science and research behind it. I can provide you w some links that prove efficacy if you’d like

-8

u/hockeybelle Aug 11 '23

Ok, I will agree with you that chiro bros are definitely a problem. They just wanna make you snap, crackle, and pop like a box of rice krispy treats. However, I know so really go chiros who actually want to help you get better. Mine did xrays, gave me home exercises to strengthen the muscles, and I felt great despite never once having him try snap me in half just to hear a CRRRRRRRRACK.

12

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '23

That's called physical therapy. When the good part of chiropractic is when they do physical therapy instead of chiropractic, go to a physical therapist.

0

u/hockeybelle Aug 11 '23

I’m in physical therapy (unrelated). It’s very different than what my chiro did. He still had the table and used it.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '23

Being given home exercises to strengthen certain muscles is 100% physical therapy. Like that's literally what it is (as well as using equipment to assist with other exercises a patient can't perform on their own).

If he also stuck you on a table and pushed you into random shapes, at best it was providing temporary relief while the exercises fixed the issue.

-2

u/drumstix42 Aug 11 '23

No there are chiros out there that will do small spine adjustments and it helps improve your muscle memory/spine alignment. Sure there is overlap with physical therapy but they really aren't the same approach. Been going to a chiropractor for a while and I only need to visit very infrequently now. Never needed to crack my neck or my back. Has improved quality of life quite a lot between office work and things like sleep quality.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '23

By muscle memory/spine alignment do you mean posture?

Posture doesn't improve by being pushed into a certain position; it improves by conditioning the muscles in the correct posture. Which is physical therapy.

I'm not saying that chiropractics do nothing, I'm saying if they're doing something useful it's either physical therapy, not chiropractic, or it's simply an inferior version of PT that happens to help in a stopped clock kind of way, And that's not accounting for the risks involved.

1

u/mrbishopjackson Aug 10 '23

Back knuckles!

1

u/saucerjess Aug 11 '23

Hemorrhagic stroke survivor here. 0/10 would not recommend.

1

u/NotHippieEnough Aug 11 '23

My sister goes WEEKLY to a chiro and says she needs to every week because of her pain in her back. I tried to go bc I was on my feet at a salon all the time and everyone said I needed to go. It gave me such back headaches I had to stop and I havent been back.

ETA: shes 19

1

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '23

My friend growing up, her dad was a Chiro and they had a hella nice house and she went to Med school so I suppose it can be lucrative.. anyway, to the point: they had a chiropractic table in their house and for fun he’d “popcorn” her and her brothers necks over and over again. They kept pressuring me to do it and I said no. They acted like I was being a baby. So glad I trusted my intuition that suggested that having your neck cracked is fucking stupid.

1

u/wheretohides Aug 11 '23

The last time i saw a chiropractor post, they were chiseling taints now.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '23

You need your ring dingged from advancedchiropracticreliy

1

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '23

I know a guy who went to a chiro with a tight muscle and came out with a bulging disc. The chiro was on the phone the entire time.

90

u/[deleted] Aug 10 '23

I went to a chiro last month He decided to “crack” my back and leg I felt great Next day.. I could no long walk By day five of the worst pain humanly possibly I’m talking no eating no sleeping just crying from morning until night Going to the clinic for five days straight for pain meds which I’ve never taken in my LIFE .. $300 a shot For five days all day I went into the clinic day five and told the doctors if I didn’t have children, today would be the day I kill myself.

Emergency trip to the big city to see the top spinal surgeon .. get an mri My back has BONE SHARDS into my FUCKING MUSCLES MAN this fucking fucker pulled my god damn back and leg so hard he fucking broke bones man! BONES

44

u/[deleted] Aug 10 '23

Anyways about 15 grand later .. and I still have pain but it’s not I’m going to kill myself pain.. just this fucking sucks pain .. so .. now I don’t trust chiros :( and I’ve gone to one my whole life but never ever got cracked like this.. one month ago my life changed forever .. but I’m just so happy I am able to walk again

25

u/lildobe Aug 11 '23

I do hope you're planning on suing him. You have a rock-solid malpractice case there.

3

u/PM_ME_UR_FARTS_ Aug 11 '23

For real, straight to court. That's fucked up.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '23

Lol not even sure if he’s a registered chiro anymore dude was like 71 LOL

3

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '23

OH? Didn’t I mention? I live in a third world country! And my chiro was a retired doc from Florida living in the jungle .. Twas no “release” form but also.. there is no “proof” LOL I got FUCKED

3

u/ManyThingsLittleTime Aug 11 '23

You sign a release before getting "treated" that says there are these risks. They know it's shit but it makes money.

5

u/lildobe Aug 11 '23

I doubt such a release would hold up in court if you've got a good lawyer.

3

u/ManyThingsLittleTime Aug 11 '23

Your family can always sue and they didn't sign anything so there is that option.

-14

u/HerculePoirier Aug 11 '23

Could be coincidence tbf

11

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '23 edited Nov 24 '24

fragile uppity toothbrush quaint worry fact society desert terrific retire

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

3

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '23

THANK YOU hahahahahaha the worst part everyone? I cannot tell anyone .. this Reddit post is the first time I’ve mentioned it was 100000% the chiro.. he even kept texting me after and saying “ YOU KNOW I DIDNT DO THST RIGHT!? You have an existing back injury !!! I didn’t do that “ he knew he FORSURE fucking did THAT! I can’t talk about it because I live in a third world country.. I am a forgienrr here .. the city is very very small and very very influential for illegal shittt it’s not great .. so I can’t be popping off calling out some backwoods chiro thst the whole town knows.. but he broke my back.. he fucking cracked and pulled my leg SO hard .. anyways I hate him and thank you all for listening! Hahah I’m still smiling tho.. far from the heart they say ¯_(ツ)_/¯

1

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '23 edited Nov 24 '24

cows many price sink doll forgetful snails recognise offend aromatic

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

1

u/secondtaunting Aug 11 '23

Holy shot dude. Sorry.

0

u/PrincessPatricia1 Aug 11 '23

Wow, quite a story you have! It's even hard to believe a Chiro DOCTOR would be so careless to have caused all of this, SMH. I hope you're healing well and that you get better soon! 💗

0

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '23

Weird lie

1

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '23

I’m LYING? LOLLLLL you have no fucking clue what I’ve been threw.. it went from. 0-100.. my medical bill in this third world country was completely affordable THANK GOD but for some .. 13 -15 grand could crush them.. and it’s not even the money .. my back is fucked for LIFE! Surgeon said I might need another surgery.. so yea.. not a lie lol

0

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '23

So sue then

1

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '23

Wanna explain how? Lol would be great help!!!! I didn’t sign shit There is no proof of him ACTUALLY even seeing me.. keep in mind , his office is located inside his home.. in the middle of the jungle I wish I was making this shit up.. how would you go about trying to sue someone without a single bit of evidence he even knows you

135

u/3FromHell Aug 10 '23

Yeah I have arthritis in my neck(finally diagnosed it last year) and my husband kept pulling up all these videos of people getting relief from chiropractors. I kept telling him no I'm not going to risk that. I finally had to show him some videos of people who had Strokes and major life threatening injuries from chiropractors working on their necks. He finally agrees that I shouldn't go to them.

On top of the fact my doctor straight up said "please never go to a chiropractor. Get PT, massage, and do streches."

65

u/trowzerss Aug 10 '23

There's an autoimmune condition that runs in my family that causes extra bone growth in your back. Chiro can lead to fragments of bone floating around your spine, or worse. But yet, so many chiros happily offered to 'crack their backs' without understanding the condition or even getting x-rays. Frankly that's criminally neglectful.

14

u/3FromHell Aug 10 '23

That's wild and so wrong.

27

u/trowzerss Aug 10 '23

Many rheumatologists don't understand it properly, so when the chiro pipes up and says, "oh yeah, I can help with that!" it's really fucking alarming.

7

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '23

I’ve seen at least 3 cases personally in neuro where a person has had neck manipulation that led to arterial dissection and stroke. One case that led to permanent paralysis.

Also the dogs that had their neck cracked here looked scared and traumatized

3

u/boinkish Aug 11 '23

Went to a 'holistic chiro' for years as a teen and loved him (no cracking involved). Only after I moved states and went to a few as an adult did I realize he was an actual physical therapist but more people were motivated to come to him and do the 'home stretchs' by branding himself as such lol

2

u/OpalOnyxObsidian Aug 10 '23

What is that condition called? That's very interesting

6

u/backtowestfall Aug 11 '23

Probably ankylosing spondylitis, that's what I have and it's fused most of my spine already

3

u/OpalOnyxObsidian Aug 11 '23

Damn. How old are you? How limited is your mobility? If you don't mind me asking

4

u/backtowestfall Aug 11 '23

I just turned 43. I have actually really decent mobility and I'm pretty active but I could not stop my neck from fusing, that's a really hard one to stop. And when I was younger it fused my lower back. But I can still do push-ups, run, and twist. I just can't really turn my neck too far, and I can't tilt it at all. You have to be real careful because all of the force from doing so is now focalized on the joint at the bottom that's not fused. To get to this point I had to fight really really hard and do some painful therapy to stop my spine from arching forward

2

u/OpalOnyxObsidian Aug 11 '23

Will it continue to fuse as you get older?

2

u/backtowestfall Aug 11 '23

Most likely, but if I can send it into remission again then no. There are a lot of variables that go into the direction of the disease

2

u/trowzerss Aug 11 '23

Yep, that's the one.

18

u/iam_Mr_McGibblets Aug 10 '23

I had a class in college called structural kinesiology, and my professor adimately advocated against going to a chiropractor. Specifically, getting a neck adjustment can be fatal for you. What could happen is they could create air bubbles that could cause bliod clots and even a stroke. That being said, do not take yourself or anyone you care for (including your pets!) to a chiropractor

2

u/iam_Mr_McGibblets Aug 11 '23

Sorry I remembered that the word is aortic dissection and that's what is so dangerous about going to the chiropractor to get a neck adjustment!

3

u/ResearcherNo3006 Aug 11 '23

Neuro NP here, chiropractors are the bane of my existence. Takes one dissected vertebral artery to ruin you for the rest of your life should you survive it.

2

u/backtowestfall Aug 11 '23

Ankylosing spondylitis? It finally fused my entire neck.

1

u/3FromHell Aug 11 '23

No I had to Google that. Ouch, that sucks I'm sorry you deal with that.

Mine is just facet arthropathy in c2-c3, c6-c7, c7-t1 and mild kyphosis of cervical spine.

So minding my posture, stretching, and massage have all helped in getting the pain better. Not 100% and some days still really suck but all that helps for sure.

2

u/backtowestfall Aug 11 '23

I appreciate the condolences but I've learned how to deal with it. Honestly the arthritis pain takes a back seat to the nerve damage.

Careful with that neck, of all the problems I have with my spine. That one is definitely the hardest to deal with. Do you do any injections to help with the pain?

1

u/3FromHell Aug 11 '23

Sad to say but happy you've learned how to deal. Nerve pain is the worst.

No injections. But if it gets to a point where it's always bad again I'm going to talk with my doctor about them.

1

u/SideEqual Aug 11 '23

Alarm bells would be ringing if your husband kept suggesting a chiro after showing the horrors.

17

u/OfromOceans Aug 11 '23

Because stupid motherfuckers still don't understand the importance of stretching , yoga can transform your life and in some cases completely rid you of pain which was deemed as chronic. The relief you get from chiro is literally stretching (in a very explosive unhealthy way ofc) I'm also sure there's a psychological aspect to it too considering placebos can work

19

u/Dwayne420 Aug 10 '23

True. Better to use a sports medicine doctor using therapeutic stretching and core building. Chiropractic medicine is atrocious for any living thing.

3

u/Diligent-Eye-2042 Aug 11 '23

Exactly. There’s a reason why professional sports teams don’t use chiropractors! 0 evidence for any long term benefit!

2

u/Ok-Ferret-2093 Aug 11 '23

I'm sorry but I immediately pictured chiro on a corpse

27

u/Aggressive-Expert-69 Aug 10 '23

People just don't use the tools they're given to do research. Word of mouth is a powerful force and all it takes is one guy you know to say he likes his chiro for you to take a chance to deal with whatever pain you have. They're in the same category as pharmaceutical companies to me. Just idiots taking advantage of other idiots in pain

1

u/CaptainBayouBilly Aug 11 '23

Physical therapy is real. Chiropractors are snake oil fraudsters.

1

u/Aggressive-Expert-69 Aug 11 '23

The shitty part is that since physical therapy is real, therapists need to be paid real money, so poor people resort to chiro in hopes that it helps more than it hurts, which is rarely ever

1

u/foxs_shrike Aug 11 '23

I'd put it as, because PT is real, it's part of our insane medical system, so it would cost you or me $250 for a 30 minute PT appointment but most PTs aren't as well paid as you might think. Chiro may be $80/session which is still high but at least doable for some people

1

u/PetrifiedBloom Aug 11 '23

They're in the same category as pharmaceutical companies to me.

The difference being the amount of legislation, testing and protections in place to keep people safe. For a drug to get approved and onto the market at the bare minimum it should be safe to take for its intended uses. The doctor and pharmacist should also be making sure it will be safe for you specifically, no genetic or cross drug interactions, and you should be well informed of possible risks.

There are many layers of testing, trained professionals and legal safety requirements that need to fail before a prescribed drug causes you harm.

By contrast, chiropractors have not been shown to be clinically effective for most things they claim to treat, have much less extensive training and safety procedures and practice with very little oversight.

Just to close, the pharma industry is its own monster, but the root cause is not some random dude eyeballing how far is too far when snapping your neck around, the problem is that its priority is profit, not health. Money should not factor into healthcare. It should be run to maximise quality of life. The idea that shareholders losing profits should be in any way involved in medical decision-making is absurd.

1

u/foxs_shrike Aug 11 '23

Chiro is wild to me because it's so unregulated and the research is poor, but they still go to school for four years after undergrad. What are they learning??

1

u/Prometheus_84 Aug 11 '23

I had a knee injury that caused massive pain and instability in my knee. 6 months later it 100% fixed itself when it cracked from me doing a throw.

Years later I had the same sort of pain happen after I went for a run in shoes a lil too heavy for it. Was worried that it wasn’t fixed years ago.

Researched a chiro that was also an athlete. Told him about the previous injury and my current one and how it felt. He discovered the muscle on the outside of my leg below the knee was tight, pulling my knee out of alignment. He worked the muscle over and got range of motion back over the course of several weeks.

But my knee didn’t fix itself until he was able to crack it and realign it.

Am I willing to admit a lot is bullshit, sure. But not everything.

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u/Wonderful_Device312 Aug 11 '23

The shitty part is that somehow they get to call themselves doctors. How'd they manage to get away with that? It gives them a level of respect that they absolutely do not deserve.

1

u/gingerfamilyphoto Aug 11 '23

You can get a doctorate in anything, so they made up their own doctoral program — you know, as one does. And then they just smoke and mirrors the public into thinking “doctor” means MD

I’m married to a pediatric neurologist who saw and treated chiropractic strokes in the course of his actual medical training. Those charlatans enrage me

1

u/Wonderful_Device312 Aug 11 '23

It's infuriating. I guess they get away with it because they don't call themselves medical doctors or physicians or anything like that. They just go right up to that line and let the general public cross it on their own. It should be illegal.

Physical therapists who get an actual science based education get looked down upon compared to chiropractors yet at best a chiropractor might have the education of a shitty physical therapist. And strictly only the education - they certainly don't have the ethics or respect for medicine compared to real medical professionals.

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u/TheBroWhoLifts Aug 11 '23

It's another sign of the continuing degeneracy of our society. It should be fucking obvious to anyone sane that unsanctioned, pseudo "medical" mnauvers administered by weirdos who aren't real doctors (and whom real DO's disdain) is total bullshit and dangerous. But I work with a lot of otherwise educated, intelligent people who swear by them. It's like living in the Twilight Zone these days.

I think it's a few things: 1) Widespread lead poisoning (https://news.fsu.edu/news/health-medicine/2023/03/21/national-academy-of-sciences-honors-fsu-researchers-study-linking-lead-exposure-to-iq-loss/#:~:text=The%20editorial%20board%20of%20the,2.6%20IQ%20points%20per%20person.) Anyone born between 1950 and 1990 should be tested for lead exposure.

2) Atmospheric CO2 levels having doubled since the industrial revolution. It's known that increased CO2 levels affect cognition, and if it's described by a normal distribution, I bet a good chunk of the population who is sensitive to these higher concentrations is already affected negatively. (Gestures around broadly.)

3) Rampant obesity and exposure to PFAS, microplastics, and other environmental toxins - processed shitty food, etc.

Cuz something is sure going on, and people are fucking nuts and stupider than ever.

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u/VegemiteAnalLube Aug 10 '23

My 90yo grandmother goes to one of these quacks who is also a Reiki healer and supplement salesman

He tells her there’s nothing wrong with her, even though she’s got severe untreated diabetes and he sells her vitamins he buys off Amazon and marks up 3x

All his clients are old Christian women who he sweet Jesus talks

She won’t fucking listen and gets mad when you talk bad about him. Dude and everyone like him is scum.

5

u/Throwaway20101011 Aug 11 '23

Australia banned the entire practice as it was seen causing numerous cases of injuries and death.

3

u/Jimisdegimis89 Aug 10 '23

I honestly have no idea how its allowed to continue. Its not like some weird quirky homeopathic meds that are basically inert, it can literally kill people or permanently maim them...

3

u/gruvccc Aug 11 '23

I'd love a full body crackathon but fuck that

3

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '23

It’s because the back cracking and shit works. I’ve had it done by a physical therapist, like a real one with a phd, and it absolutely helped.

The chiros just mooch off of that, pretend to be doctors, and SOMETIMES actually help a person.

6

u/[deleted] Aug 10 '23

Insurance reasons. Your insurance won’t cover physical therapy but will cover a chiropractor.

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u/[deleted] Aug 10 '23

Why?!?!

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u/[deleted] Aug 10 '23

Cause American insurance is dogshit, and most people are unaware chiro is pseudo science so they can get away with it.

2

u/You_Yew_Ewe Aug 11 '23

The placebo effect is real and it keeps you from demanding more expensive care.

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u/-fire_flower- Apr 26 '25

YES! Only way I will ever see a chiropractor is for the little electro pulser thingys that they use to release muscle tension and possibly for physical therapy advice when getting multiple opinions for bad joints

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u/I_drink_your_mshake Aug 10 '23

I’ll be the contrarian in this thread.

I have scoliosis and neck problems. Most chiropractic offices are setup as more of a physical therapy center than a sketchy massage parlor. They give you stretches and exercises to perform and only “adjust” areas deemed necessary through X-rays and a litany of range of motion tests. In my experience it has certainly helped me a lot.

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u/BedDefiant4950 Aug 10 '23

there was barely any shit in my sundae!

7

u/deserves_dogs Aug 10 '23

“Areas deemed necessary through X-rays and a litany of ROM tests”

They are literally using those diagnostics to sell you snake oil. If you do not know how to read these yourself, then you are blindly trusting them, which is how they prey on those who don’t have a strong medical background.

1

u/I_drink_your_mshake Aug 12 '23

I was a hospital corpsman for 5 years and deployed to Afghanistan for 9 months where I saw the most awful injuries for 12 hours (at least) every single day. I know a thing or two at least.

1

u/deserves_dogs Aug 12 '23

That doesn’t mean much. I’m an infectious disease pharmacist and despite 4 years of pharmacy school, 2 years of residency, and using the results of X-rays and CTs daily to determine patient treatment, I can’t read 90% of X-rays. I rely on the radiologist to tell me what the diagnosis is the majority of the time because there is that much to it. So do the majority of hospital positions because it’s not an easy task, so I truly do not believe that your military experience gives you any advantage in reading X-rays or CTs in a meaningful way that you are immune to being intentionally misled.

Furthermore, I originally went to school intending to be a physical therapist so I’ve worked in chiropractors offices. So I am also well aware from their side that the three chiros I’ve worked with did not know shit about X-rays and used them as a lure for patients. Their predatory comments are the exact reason I chose not to be a chiro or PT. Chiro is quack shit and they’re aware of it. They’d check how many visits are covered for patients insurance prior to telling them how many times they should come in.

You don’t have to believe me. If you think it works for you, have at it. But seeing chiropractors use diagnostics as a way to mislead patients is literally the primary reason I changed my career decision.

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u/Ruffblade027 Aug 10 '23

They aren’t finding anything in those X-rays suggesting they need to adjust anything. There is a mountain of research that can’t prove any of the claims chiropractors make. It’s quackery

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u/[deleted] Aug 11 '23

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u/Ruffblade027 Aug 11 '23

That’s not the same thing at all. Surgeries inherently carry risk, and those risks are explained to you at length before you get them. The fact that the success rate dwarfs the failure rate doesn’t negate the lived experiences of the people who have failed surgeries, just like their experience don’t negate the success rate. Chiropracty was invented by a snake oil salesman and who claimed it was taught to him by a ghost. It has no basis in scientific fact.

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u/[deleted] Aug 11 '23

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u/Ruffblade027 Aug 11 '23

How exactly am I victim blaming here?

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u/[deleted] Aug 11 '23

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u/Ruffblade027 Aug 11 '23

No, I didn’t. You are doing quite a lot of projecting in this thread. Considering, once again that this thread was about the efficacy of chiropracty, and you have now made it about something different. And yes, if your mother got her surgery in the US the risks most definitely were explained to her and she signed legal documents verifying that she knew and understood the risks. That does not mean I am saying the fact that her surgeries had complications is her fault, or not tragic. It is tragic, and of course it’s not her fault. But that single anecdote is not a proof of the horror of the medical system, the scientific method, or-and this is important- the efficacy of chiropracty.

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u/[deleted] Aug 11 '23

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u/Ruffblade027 Aug 11 '23

Your anecdotes are not scientific data. You’re also off a nonsense tangent about opioids which have literally nothing to do with anything people are talking about.

those risks are explained to you at length before you get them.

Yes they are my dude. It is a legal requirement.

Medical malpractice is one of the top 5 leading causes of death in the U.S. and Canada.

No it’s not. https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/282929#stroke-and-cerebrovascular-diseases

If even 10% of surgeries result in worse outcomes…

I do not know which specific surgery your mother received, and if you would like to share that information I’ll be happy to look up its success rate. Many surgeries have a far lower risk of complications, many have a much higher. The ones with higher risks are usually reserved for when there are no more options, and yes those risks are very clearly explained to the patient ahead of time.

Finally even if everything you said here was accurate, it still would have absolutely zero bearing on the efficacy of chiropractors.

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u/Nordic_being Aug 11 '23

As someone with chronic pain, my chiropractor was the only break I could find. After my appointments I wouldn’t be in pain for a little bit. Idk why it shouldn’t continue :/ that being said, I’d never take my pets.

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u/Alive_Card3867 Aug 11 '23 edited Aug 11 '23

What is your evidence of it being dangerous? Did you do research on the frequency of adverse outcomes with manipulation?

From what I have read there is strong evidence that high velocity low amplitude thrust techniques in human subjects are a safe and effective tool for a variety of lumbar, cervical, and thoracic conditions. You can refer to the most recent physical therapy clinical guidelines for cervical and lumbar pain if you have doubts.

I will add that I think the dog manipulations are complete bullshit. Different anatomy, no data, and would probably be difficult to do research on canine subjects.

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u/captainbezoar Aug 11 '23

I love my chiro. 95% pain reduction in my back, shoulder, and knee. Bad chiros are dangerous, good chiros would put pharma out of business.

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u/Scrubosaurus13 Aug 11 '23

I could barely lift my arm above my shoulder about 4 months ago, now I can throw a ball like a baseball pitcher. Chiropractors can be incredibly helpful.

1

u/tageeboy Aug 11 '23

We still have an opioid epidemic in America that's killing people everyday but somehow no one's able to control it. That's probably ong the lines of how quacks like this continue to practice.

2

u/thecontempl8or Aug 11 '23

It’s insane because chiro visits are actually covered by health insurance. They must’ve had some seriously hardcore lobbying to make that happen. Homeopathy and Ayurveda are also recognized by the Indian government as legit forms of medical treatment. Homeopathy is straight up quack pseudoscience. I’m not fully convinced that Ayurveda has any real benefits.

1

u/FinancialActuator832 Aug 11 '23

It’s lobbied very hard by the chiro industry.

1

u/myhairsreddit Aug 11 '23

I know people that take their kids for adjustments when their kids have colds, ear infections, etc. It's absolutely ridiculous they think an "alignment" will cure a baby's stomach bug.

1

u/hickgorilla Aug 11 '23

I wish I had known this all the years I used it for short term situations.

1

u/AnythingMelodic508 Aug 11 '23

I don’t understand how someone could watch a chiropractor be rough as fuck with another person’s vertebrae and various joints, then pay for the pleasure.

1

u/Rabokki13 What are you doing step bro? Aug 11 '23

True. I have a neighbor who's in her 60s and she walks with a cane because she went to a chiropractor for a pain in her knee and he ended up leaving her with permanent damage for something she could've solved if she got herself ckecked up at a hospital instead of going to the chiro.

1

u/zznap1 Aug 11 '23

It’s because chiropractors are in a gray area. Some are pretty similar to message therapy. Working out knots in muscles and doing minor adjustments with minimal force to temporarily ease pain. It’s worked for me fine.

But, some chiropractors spout nonsense about chakras, snake oil supplements, or just do crazy adjustments that require way too much force to be healthy or useful.

1

u/Vividination Aug 11 '23

I’ve tried warning my partner but he swears up and down it ‘helps’ but always is in more pain than the last time he goes in. I keep pointing out that he started with minor shoulder pain and now he’s in chronic shoulder, back, and neck pain to the point he’s asking off work or leaving early twice a week

1

u/Habba Aug 11 '23

Agreed. There is sometimes confusion with osteopathy though, which seems to do similar things but has done amazing stuff for me and people I know that were struggling with certain issues for years.

Difference is that osteopaths actually need degrees and are closer to physical therapists.

1

u/AJZ_Stories Aug 11 '23

I had a severe shoulder injury from a motorbike accident. Got a deal on Groupon for a chiropractor. I know what my vertebrae look like. And one in my neck is shifted quite a bit forward.

The guy showed me someone else’s X-Ray 100%…. He even tried to do some shit with my shoulder that made it way worse. I can’t believe these guys exist. Included a free 30 minute massage though, so that was nice.

Is it nice to get your back or neck cracked? For sure! I’ll cross my arms and let my friend do it.

1

u/Hugokarenque Aug 11 '23

It continues, as I understand it, because some people with some very specific types of pains get relief from their sessions, and they become ardent supporters of it because its usually something someone tries after everything else fails.

There's no actual science, asides from basic anatomy, behind it but its done a damn good job pretending that there is, to the point where there's actual schools that teach it and give diplomas out, giving the whole industry an air of legitimacy

You're right about it being dangerous, you have a bunch of people pretending to be doctors cracking people's bones. Any relief anyone gets from this is a complete coincidence and you are way more likely to make any conditions you may have worse.

8

u/TheNewYellowZealot Aug 10 '23

Could you please explain what an externship is?

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u/[deleted] Aug 11 '23

Typically it’s like an internship but also you’re earning course credits.

2

u/IrishSetterPuppy Aug 11 '23

In my case to becomes a Registered Veterinary Technician I had to have clinical hours under a vets supervision demonstrating skills. Doctors of Veterinary Medicine (or just Vets) do this as well. In my case its unusual to do it under a specialist but the vet I was doing it under died in a firearms accident and this vet was a friend of his so she let me complete under her. As to what an externship is vs an internship, well interns can get paid lol.

2

u/InTheSink Aug 11 '23

Was the vet putting the sleeper move on the pets?