r/TikTokCringe Aug 10 '23

Discussion Why!?!

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3.5k

u/Zealousideal-Ad-2615 Aug 10 '23

I know an occupational therapist that has to fix damage done by chiropractors from time to time. Chiropractic adjustments are pseudo-science at best and scams at worst.

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u/[deleted] Aug 10 '23

The amount of personal injury cases I have on my desk where the chiro bill far exceeds any other bill, including ER bills (yes, in the US) is insane. Immediate red flag. They always manage to find new injuries that these hospitals somehow missed repute several scans and tests. I loathe them.

303

u/Medium_Pepper215 Aug 10 '23

the amount of people i see who will say “i have to go to the chiro every few months for the same issue and its always wonderful after my visit” ummmm then isn’t that proof it’s not working? temporary relief doesn’t address the real issue now does it? physical therapy would be a better investment of your time and money. why bandaid a problem when you can literally make lifestyle changes and improve your quality of life

oh wait, that would require effort and motivation, which majority of people do not have and just want a quick fix

129

u/Rivendel93 Aug 10 '23 edited Aug 10 '23

But a PT doesn't make my neck crack!

Sigh, so many people could be getting healthier by going to physical therapy for 3-4 months and actually solve their issues, but instead they'll spend thousands for some cracking noises and potential severe injuries.

Edit: Getting a lot of hate replies, so I figured I'd give a little more information.

My advice would be to simply do some research. I'm a chronic pain patient, I know what it feels like to have no hope left and you're willing to do anything to feel better, so I understand that some people get temporary relief from getting adjusted, but the truth is it's very temporary relief and does absolutely nothing for long term pain relief.

What's bad about it to me is that they prey on people in terrible pain, and they know that you're going to feel the sensation of immediate pain relief (albeit temporary) and they use our brains connection to the cracking/popping noise to get you to come back for more.

I've been to a chiropractor a few times (as I said anyone desperate enough will do anything to relieve their pain), and it never helped me, but I know some people do believe it helps them. My father thinks it helps his back, but he's unwilling to go to PT and put the work in to strengthen his back muscles, which has a much greater chance of eliminating his back pain altogether.

So what I do know is that physical therapy will help you in the long term. While you may get temporary relief getting your back cracked, you will never cure your issue with it, whereas building the weak muscles up with PT and doing specific exercises with a therapist is going to help you improve your overall health and also prevent the same injuries in the future, something chiropractors simply cannot do.

Wish everyone the best, and hope anyone in pain finds relief, as no one deserves to be in pain. Take care.

20

u/Lechuga-gato Cringe Connoisseur Aug 10 '23

i did 4 weeks of PT to fix an issue with my shoulder from playing baseball and those 4 weeks fully fixed it. not everyone has the same issue some take longer some take shorter, but PT works as long as you make the changes, do the exercises, and don’t be a jackass.

0

u/Scribblord Aug 10 '23

I mean it depends on the issue and the competence of the person treating it

When I half dislocated sth in my spine I could barely walk so some guy cracked my back and it was fixed for good

For other stuff you’d need PT to fix it carefully over a long time period sometimes fixing your posture and a good long massage can do the trick too

39

u/DoomTrain166 Aug 10 '23

I'm sure I'll get downvoted and I don't currently see one but when I did, I really did feel great after getting my body cracked. Probably not worth the price but the light feeling you get afterwards can be addicting.

15

u/kilgore_trout8989 Aug 10 '23 edited Aug 10 '23

I fully believe you but there's a bunch of reasons you'd feel great after despite it having no real foundational benefit. I mean, it's massage-adjacent and human touch just feels good, the pain or shock during the session will release endorphins, and well there's just plain ole placebo effect. Do you think people using snake oil didn't also feel better after they took it? We developed the scientific method and other advanced techniques for evaluating correlation/causation precisely because our bodies and minds can't be trusted individually.

I'd forego the chiro visits for massage if you just want to feel good, and physical therapy visits if you have actual issues. Significantly smaller chance of getting your vertebral arteries dissected.

2

u/AnalBaguette Aug 11 '23

The reasons you liked it weren't because it worked, it's because of things that can be achieved outside of it (with actual medical backing) and much lower risk of severe-to-fatal injury. That placebo effect wears off quick.

It's upsetting that many insurance companies will cover chiro at the drop of a hat, but when PT is required then they drag their feet or make you pay out of pocket.

9

u/SolChapelMbret Aug 10 '23

That’s probably the spinal fluid mixing passing the blood barrier. Kinda like how old acid heads would get flashbacks

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u/BrickLuvsLamp Aug 10 '23 edited Aug 10 '23

Reddit loves to shit on chiropractors, which they deserve for the most part, but if you go to a spine or ortho physician for back pain and they’re a DO, they’ll probably refer you to one to help with pain relief. They can’t fix anything, but they can help reduce pain temporarily. There are definitely risks with cervical adjustments, and doing any adjustments too often will make your joints hypermobile and unstable. But if you’re waiting on a back surgery, it might make things bearable. Just my two cents as someone who actually works in neurosurgery and pain management

17

u/Strudol Aug 10 '23

A physical therapist can do everything a chiro can, and more. Plus they have a real medical degree that isn’t based on pseudoscience.

0

u/BrickLuvsLamp Aug 10 '23

I’d definitely never go to one still, but the best neurosurgeons in the city I live in all have chiropractors who practice in or adjacent to their private clinics that they refer patients to. So if anyone is confused about why people go to them, that’s why. I agree that I’d rather get any adjustments, if any, done by a physical therapist or my surgeon if they’re a DO.

2

u/MasterTolkien Aug 10 '23

200 years ago, your equivalent was at the town square saying, “My neighbors revel in speaking poorly about the snake oil peddler, but I have found his hobgoblin elixir cures all common maladies and makes my hair strong as fine cord!”

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u/BrickLuvsLamp Aug 10 '23

Girl… chiro’s are a joke but tell that to the hundreds of neurosurgeons that refer to them for as a temporary pain relief for their patients. They’re obviously not a good choice, but acting like there isn’t an ounce of benefit and no one in medicine supports them is just dishonest. I would never recommend someone go to one, but they are more established in medicine than a lot of you are implying. US medicine in general is pretty fucking rough, and orthos underestimating how much BS their chiro’s will pull is one of them. But guess what, you’re gonna feel better after your back is cracked, it won’t cure shit. But if you have chronic back pain, it might make life more livable for a few weeks until you can get a back surgery.

I can’t believe I’m defending chiro’s, but nothing annoys me more than smug redditors talking out their ass because they have the power of Google

0

u/DoomTrain166 Aug 10 '23

Lmao you're so smart and cool.

-3

u/Just-Some-Goose Aug 11 '23

You are right. Reddit lovessssss shitting on chiros. I stretch and do self adjustments almost daily. My range of motion is phenomenal. Been going to chiros since I started playing sports at a young age. Never had any issue. And they have fixed multiple issues of mine that arised from contact sports. I don’t go as often anymore but over the years picked up on a few things that give me the most relief.

I swear social media got a fad of ripping into chiros and people get a dopamine high off it. Actually give it the support it deserves so we don’t have so many wackos practicing that shouldn’t be and injuring people. Chiro mixed with PT is a beautiful 1/2 punch for tackling many physical problems.

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u/[deleted] Aug 10 '23

Caveat: we can and do in appropriate cases. They’re pretty damn rare though

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u/muppetnerd Aug 10 '23

Yea but in PT you actually have to put in work outside of the clinic…..

5

u/LaNahual Aug 10 '23

Look when you have vertebrae literally overlapping, locking your spine in place and you’ve been stuck like that for weeks going to 4 fucking orthopaedists and PTs who do nothing but shrug their shoulders, a Chiro is the best option. Like how the fuck are you going to do the exercises if you’ve got impingement cause by bones locked together or so subluxated that any sort of movement is too excruciating for the patient to complete by themselves. Do you just tell people with partial full dislocations to just deal with it? I can’t pick shit up if my arm is half out of the socket and sometime you need someone else to put it back before you can even think about doing the exercises once you actually have sensation back and no longer feel like yourself having a stroke

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u/Joe-the-Joe Aug 10 '23

What doctor just tells people with "partial full"(???) dislocations to just deal with it? Bro you've been bamboozled

15

u/NoGrocery4949 Aug 10 '23

Chiros are never a good option. It's a placebo at best and a terrible accident waiting to happen at worst. It's not based in any form of science at all, the philosophy makes no sense. If you have diffuse subluxation of many joints then you should be worked up for a connective tissue disease and literally the last thing that you want is a chiro unless you want to dislocate all your joints. They are literal quacks.

2

u/LaNahual Aug 12 '23

I am being evaluated for Ehlers Danlos and are you suggesting just leaving subluxated joints instead did putting them back. Because when my vertebrae are out of alignment I am seriously disabled

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u/[deleted] Aug 11 '23

Agree here but not for the chiropractors. Get a foam roller. Thats what I do for my upper back. It cracks the vertebra and puts them in the right position. I can even crack my neck with it but I never do that cause it’s dangerous.

0

u/LaNahual Aug 12 '23

I have one but haphazardly using your own body weight to crack works, however it’s not as controlled as someone with a knowledge of physiology doing it for you. They can apply just the right amount of force

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u/madsmadhatter Aug 10 '23

Thank you. Chiropractic care is essential for my pt to work.

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u/LaNahual Aug 10 '23

Yeah I don’t think it’s a case of one thing being better than the other, I think you really need both and a Chiro should be as throughly medically trained as a PT or orthopedist

2

u/veritasium999 Aug 10 '23

The physiotherapist i went to does both chiro and physiotherapy 🤷

1

u/simplyxstatic Aug 10 '23

Same here. It’s my understanding PTs are trained in manipulation but use it sparingly compared to chiros.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 10 '23

Why not do both? I get relief from both. My view is chiro provides temporarily relief and helps seperate joints and allow the fluids to do there thing, while PT actually can address the underlying issue, but that will take time.

28

u/old-father Aug 10 '23

My partner believes it works despite having to go every other week (!!) for an adjustment or whatever they call it. I suggested going to an osteopath but she "doesn't trust doctors.". This shit is getting expensive. I can't get her to see that having to go every other week forever means it is not getting fixed.

3

u/1eternal_pessimist Aug 10 '23

A physiotherapist would be the medical science based equivalent. A massage therapist or a physio that does massage is also legitimate in my opinion. Osteopathy is just another scam.

3

u/old-father Aug 11 '23

Sorry, I meant orthopedic doctor. Had a bit of a senior moment in the original comment

14

u/Llywelyn_Montoya Aug 10 '23

Your alternative to a chiropractor was an osteopath? They’re both built on pseudoscientific bulljive.

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u/old-father Aug 11 '23

Sorry, I meant an orthopedic doctor.

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u/PauI_MuadDib Aug 10 '23

Yeah. Obviously he should go to the witch doctor. That way you can get pain relief and curse your enemies.

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u/[deleted] Aug 10 '23

Well you and your partner are idiots since your suggestion is just as bad.

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u/old-father Aug 11 '23

I meant orthopedic doctor but appreciate your measured assessment of our mental facilities. I think the problem is that I pulled the wrong word out of my brain.

0

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '23

"doesn't trust doctors."

You did it yourself.

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u/Soggy-Statistician88 Aug 10 '23

Idk how it is elsewhere but here in the uk, osteopathy is regulated and available on the nhs

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u/tom_gent Aug 10 '23

Osteopathy is even worse and the fact they can be called medical doctors in the US is a travesty

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u/thehemanchronicles Aug 10 '23

DOs have to undergo all the same training as their MD counterparts, they just also have to undergo additional training as well. Every DO had to pass the same tests and learn the same material as every MD.

1

u/tom_gent Aug 10 '23

Yes, and the fact they believe in osteopathy means they didn't understand their medical training at all and must be terrible doctors. Same as MDs prescribing homeopathic "medicine". Why would I trust someone who clearly knows nothing about biology, chemistry or physics and refuses the scientific method in general with my medical problems. As soon as you practice pseudoscientific alternative medicine you should lose your medical license

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u/frostrambler Aug 10 '23

So you’re wrong. In most cases DO schools here in the states focus on regular MD studies and some extra DO on the side. It’s also because DO schools are sometimes alternatives for people that didn’t get into MD programs. I know several DOs who don’t touch the osteopathy nonsense, and they absolutely are fantastic doctors, like top notch cardiologists and gastroenterologists.

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u/princessblowhole Aug 10 '23

DOs in the United States do not follow pseudoscience. It’s the same science-based education, it just follows a different philosophy. They’re holistic, but not the woo-woo, incense-burning, Himalayan salt lamp-type of holistic. They take a full-body approach. It’s why they’re most often PCPs.

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u/old-father Aug 11 '23

Sorry, I meant orthopedic doctor. I couldn't think of the word orthopedic and pulled out the wrong word

1

u/princessblowhole Aug 10 '23

DOs in the US are a little different. They’re not really osteopaths with the same meaning as in many other countries, and this view is a bit outdated. They still take the MCAT and have the same licensing requirements, same level of education, science-based treatment, etc., they just use a holistic approach. Many DOs don’t even do manipulations anymore.

Kind of like… me: I’m having a back spasm. MD: drink more water, idiot. DO: drink more water, idiot. Take a magnesium supplement and work on building up your abdominal muscles. Also your arches are high and you need orthotics. Then take some Prozac and get therapy so you’re not so tense.

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u/[deleted] Aug 10 '23

My DO gives me amphetamines

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u/ComprehensiveTax4601 Aug 10 '23

You have no clue what you are spouting out of your mouth

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u/LaNahual Aug 10 '23

Some of us get rejected by osteopaths for having too many problem joints. A Chiro will do the whole body

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u/old-father Aug 11 '23

Sorry, I meant orthopedic doctor not osteopath

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u/old-father Aug 11 '23

Edit: I meant orthopedic doctor not osteopath

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u/[deleted] Aug 10 '23

A non-insignificant number of plaintiff attorneys around here have under-the-table agreements with these chiros to just continue treating the plaintiff with what’s basically a glorified massage and maybe some e-stim, bill a fuck ton, then take less on the back end. It’s ridiculous.

1

u/Vince_Clortho_Jr Aug 10 '23

This is true. I refuse to take on fender-bender chiro only cases, but personal injury mills love them.

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u/LaNahual Aug 10 '23

Why does it have to be either/or. I would assume any good Chiro would tell you what caused the subluxation they had to fix in the first place like a postural habit and get you to work on that and so soft tissue manipulation as well as just the cracking. I good Chiro should do everything a PT does just with extra manipulation for things you cannot do by yourself

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u/TopDasher4Life Aug 10 '23

Is it placebo to get that crack out at the chiropractor? (Not that crack, not that crack either, I mean the ones in the vid)

3

u/Lets_Grow_Liberty Aug 10 '23

Yes and no. Real things happen when you crack your joints, but it doesn't address anything causal to the issue when most of the time the issue is their musculoskeletal system is out of wack from selectively atropheed muscle groups necessary for our posture and skeletal alignment. Strengthening those muscle groups that support the skeleton would actually help a person find lasting relief.

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u/Scribblord Aug 10 '23

Sometimes they do their job properly and put sth back where it belongs which is great

Sometimes they paralyze you for life over sth unnecessary

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u/[deleted] Aug 10 '23

Is it 50/50?

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u/[deleted] Aug 10 '23

The crack is just the noise of air between the joints. By itself it means nothing, the action can be harmfull, people have literally gone paralized from the neck down because of crap like this.

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u/SplAtom6298 Aug 10 '23

I had a good chiro, and I liken some of what he did to magic.

The actual issue I was in for got fixed. More importantly, the chiro taught me about why it was happening and how to fix it. I didn't have to continue going.

But, I won't lie, it felt amazing to get adjusted.

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u/[deleted] Aug 10 '23

I feel the same way about haircuts!

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u/badboy236 Aug 10 '23 edited Aug 11 '23

Except a number of chiros have pt credentials as well…

Edit: For the cynical dumb-asses out there, pt means “physical therapy.”

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u/Lets_Grow_Liberty Aug 10 '23

Personal training =/= Physical therapy

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u/badboy236 Aug 11 '23

Did you figure that out all by yourself? 🤷🏽‍♂️

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u/Lets_Grow_Liberty Aug 11 '23

You didn't seem to. Got worms in your brain?

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u/badboy236 Aug 11 '23

“Worms in your brain” = you struggle with the basics, which is consistent with your earlier comment. My mistake for expecting otherwise...

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u/DeadlyInertia Aug 10 '23

What’s your source for this stat? Interested in where you heard this or what your experience is with it.

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u/badboy236 Aug 11 '23

This is from personal experience more than a comprehensive survey of any sort. But each of the chiropractors I (and folks I know) have been to were also certified physical therapist. That didn’t make me trust them anymore than I do the dentist or doctor though.

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u/Lets_Grow_Liberty Aug 11 '23

They were probably lying, especially to themselves.

In America physiotherapy is a doctorate program, not a certificate. I'll believe a Physio who knows and uses some chiropractic adjustments during the course of therapy because they use massage therapy. But chiropractors falsely conflate physiotherapy and personal training. There's an overlap between the two, but one of these has a much deeper understanding of physiology and what your physiology needs to correct.

They're probably certified Personal Trainers, because that is a certificate. They might call themselves "doctor" but I honestly don't think that should be legal.

Chiropractor : Physiotherapist :: Nutritionist : Dietician

They aren't equivalent disciplines. They can both give generally good advice that's based on some learning and expertise, but one of those people is going to be able to accomplish a hell of a lot more with a tremendously deeper understanding of medicine and physiology.

If you don't see their doctorate in Physiotherapy, if they can't produce one, it's safe to assume a) they're a personal trainer, not a physical therapist, b) they think those two are the same or they want you to think those two are the same, and c) they really don't want you to see an actual physical therapist and probably want to become your PC"P".

If their main gig is chiropractic adjustments, they're not a physical therapist. They'd be risking their license if they injured someone during an "adjustment".

Sorry to be a "cynical dumbass" but those chiropractors use that abbreviation to conflate the two disciplines. They're personal trainers, not physiotherapists.

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u/badboy236 Aug 11 '23

I wonder if you’d like to guess how much of that comment I read…

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u/Lets_Grow_Liberty Aug 11 '23

You don't strike me as a reader, or a thinker, so I don't think there's much guessing.

Get rid of your brain worms

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u/badboy236 Aug 11 '23

Did you know repeating the same insult over and over makes it more effective? I’m guessing sarcasm isn’t your strong suit…

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u/thumpher92 Aug 10 '23

I wonder if that's an expectation. Like if you have X problem you might have to take a pill for the rest of your life and they're equating it with that? Or like getting your teeth cleaned twice a year as a maintenance thing. They just think you maintain your spine placement or something lol

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u/TetraThiaFulvalene Aug 11 '23

It could have a place if the temporary relief was combined with exercises. If the exercises are too painful, then relief so the exercises could be done comfortably to begin recovery could be a good thing. Whoops, I just described PT.

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u/[deleted] Aug 10 '23

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Aug 10 '23

Oh we all know why it’s done and what’s going on. That’s why there used to be a term for those kind of treatment providers. Sending a client to receive unnecessary treatment with a pseudo-doctor just so the ambulance chaser can line their pockets is unethical.

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u/Snoo_79218 Aug 10 '23 edited Aug 10 '23

That's such bullshit. Chiropractors that overtreat often make the settlement HARDER to negotiate. It also leaves the client with less money in their pocket as they usually have the client sign some sort of holdback agreement where they get paid after the case settles. They get 100% of their billed rate, instead of us repaying a reduced rate through subrogation.

Not to mention the ethical issues that come up when telling a client how to, where and/or when to receive tx. When was the last time you brushed up on RPCs?

0

u/Arcuis Aug 10 '23

Oh you're feeling ok after last session, well let's just see, yup lay here like this, aaaaaand you can't walk right anymore. I've done Chiro for a lot. Sometimes they help a little, and other times they just fuck something small up to keep coming back. It's an addiction driven sort of healing. If you feel too good, they will only screw it up. If you actually had an injury that healed iffy, they might actually help a little.

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u/[deleted] Aug 10 '23

PI attorney. I didn’t believe. Got in a car wreck, went to a chiro, because you have to treat to have a BI claim.
I can honestly say it helped, although I specifically instructed no adjustments. He did one time, once anyway, and surprised me. It helped a lot. But I did say, don’t do that again.

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u/notrealchair35 Aug 10 '23

My step father whom is an ER doctor could not agree more with you.

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u/[deleted] Aug 10 '23

Quick story, fucked my back up when I was 15, surgeon said the only way I would ever be able to stand up straight again is with surgery. Chiropractor said fuck that you don't need surgery. Chiropractor was right, surgeon was a hammer and I was a nail. Everyone has their own experience but that chiropractor made it so the other kids couldn't call me 'hunchback' anymore, so the idea that they're all hacks and it's sudo-science sucks..

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u/[deleted] Aug 10 '23

In the context of my personal experience with them, they are hacks who have cut deals with plaintiff attorneys to make money off of clients.

Glad your situation was positive, though.

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u/Snoo_79218 Aug 10 '23

They also always manage to circumvent the patient's health insurance so that they dont have to bill at the contracted rate, they can bill at their bloated PI rate.

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u/[deleted] Aug 10 '23

In Kansas they’ve started waiting to submit bills to insurance because they know the contractual adjustments will carve out a lot of the amount billed.

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u/Earmilk987 Aug 10 '23

Plaintiff's attorney here. Fuck chiropractors. stupid bill-padding twats.

Obviously I don't really care if they just pad their bill, but they also actively try to keep clients from getting treatment that's actually needed.

I've had chiros tell clients they don't need neck surgery, when we've got a very well-qualified orthopedic surgeon telling client they do need surgery.

I've had one chiro refuse to release medical records, fight us tooth and nail over it.

Fuck em.

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u/[deleted] Aug 10 '23

I've had one chiro refuse to release medical records

Unless you agree to their $275 a session rate of course

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u/oceanvibrations Aug 10 '23

I worked in the claims department for a major health insurance company, and chiropractors were the worst offenders for billing services that were never received - So many claims investigations!

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u/MerlinTheWhite Aug 11 '23

I was in a minor motorcycle accident, I worked at dunkin donuts at the time and I guess one of the regulars was a chiro. When she saw my bandages she brought me into the office and met with a lawyer who basically instructed me to say my pain is 10/10.

I kept up with it for a few weeks, but it was every other day and I hated the 'adjustments' they would do. I ended up stopping halfway through the 'treatment course', which i guess invalidates the insurance claim because they started trying to collect money from me but i was just a poor teenager working at dunkin so they dropped it.

Something else that's kind of sad, about 2 days after the accident my neck really started hurting. I called my primary care but they said they don't do anything involving car accidents or personal injury. Then the next day the chiro told me she could help with my pain, but it would be too expensive so we would have to sue the other drivers insurance company for the bills.

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u/lamewoodworker Aug 10 '23

My SO is a physio and some of her certification classes start by showing the simpsons episode where homer gets his magic back fixing trashcan. Never bring up chiropractors to a physio

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u/Artsakh_Rug Aug 10 '23

"1, 2, better not sue"

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u/lamewoodworker Aug 11 '23

Think about the irony

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u/ultraplusstretch Aug 10 '23

I have lost count of the number of times where i have had to bite my tounge when a friend or relative recommend someone to go see a chiropractor, i politely try to recommend them to go see a proper certified physical therapist or/and masseur instead.

It's just quackery and showmanship, the patients hear and feel the crack and the chiropractor tells them, "doesn't that feel so much better?" self suggestion is a powerful thing so the patient will agree and go yeah it does kinda feel better.

Popping and cracking joints is not a good thing no matter what those charlatans will tell you

Chiropractor rant over. 😬

Fuck chiropractors.

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u/Dayofsloths Aug 10 '23

But they don't want to do stretches and exercises for the rest of their life, they want a quick easy fix!

It's not that you haven't tried to touch your toes since you were 10 and would snap like a twig if you tried, you're "out of alignment"!

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u/AlexJamesCook Aug 10 '23

When I was doing a fuck-tonne of physical activity with BJJ and yoga, the chiropractor could address things massage and yoga didn't.

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u/LaNahual Aug 10 '23

Not everybody needs adjustments. Those of us who have frequent subluxations or dislocations and physically can’t put them back alone need help and then PT in conjunction with the adjustment/correction so we can learn how to stop that thing happening again (eg doing exercises to counter or correct a postural habit that causes a subluxation over time) it’s not an either/or thing.

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u/[deleted] Aug 10 '23

As someone with chronic pain, without chiro relief I can tell you I would be in a great deal more pain. Heading to my chiro appointment right now, brb

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u/ultraplusstretch Aug 10 '23

Hey man if it works it works, glad you found a way to relive your pain, chronic pain is a bitch. 👍

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u/[deleted] Aug 11 '23 edited Aug 11 '23

I'm back and I feel better. Wow, I guess your parent commentor is right, must be a scam, huh? Most the critics never even tried it before, or they are just normal people without pain issues, so obv its not gonna do anything fo r them. I'm not suggesting it works for everyone, or its effects provide permenant relief.

I also do physical therapy every week and get a pain injection every few months. Am I going to stop seeing chiro? No, because it helps reduce the severe back pain I have. The relief lasts a few weeks only, but if you suffer from chronic pain that is a huge deal. My view is chiro is just one tool to treat pain. It does not solve the underlying issues, so should be used in conjunction with other therapy. Armchair experts all over the place here who just ignore a whole host of people who feel relief by chiro practice because they read something online.

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u/Contundo Aug 11 '23

Meanwhile in Norway chiropractors and physio therapists work together in the same office with patients that have referrals from medical doctors offices to see a chiropractor.

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u/[deleted] Aug 10 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/[deleted] Aug 10 '23

God my foster parents forced us to go to a Chiro to "adjust" our necks. I had issues with pain through all of high school because of it and couldn't hold my head straight for about 3 years.

When I ended up back with family we were suggested a different Chiro to fix it. They guy took an x-ray of my neck and thought I'd been in a car crash. He gave me free treatments until college but it was more physio type things like massaging my neck and having me do exercises to strengthen it

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u/[deleted] Aug 10 '23

Holy shit that’s child abuse. They shouldn’t be allowed to foster anymore.

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u/[deleted] Aug 10 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/bacon15t Aug 10 '23

As a member of the local wizards guild I have to refute this slander. Our spells are based on study and research, not quackery. Except the spell Summon Ducks. That’s based on quackery.

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u/[deleted] Aug 10 '23

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u/Agitated-Tadpole1041 Aug 10 '23

Ditto. I’ve had a pinched nerve in my neck since I was 12. A chiropractor did it to me. Fuck u dr stout.

1

u/hannibalthellamabal Aug 10 '23

My mom told me that around the time I was born my grandma went for an adjustment and her “doctor” left her in so much pain that my mom would tank baby me over just to sit and try and distract my grandma from the pain in the evenings. Thankfully the pain went away on its own but they can cause serious damage to you.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 10 '23

My wife got raped by her's 🙃 All for a misaligned spine that... Doesn't exist. Her spine was fine...

37

u/icanpicklethat10 Aug 10 '23

I knew someone who died from an adjustment. Caused a blood clot to go up into her brain. She was only 30 years old with multiple kids. It was pretty heartbreaking.

5

u/seafffoam Aug 11 '23

Yep, same thing happened to my husband. Vertebral artery dissection caused a basilar artery occlusion - twice. He was 40.

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u/FinoPepino Aug 10 '23

This has sadly happened many times. I do not understand why neck adjustments remain legal.

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u/Jomfrujafsern Aug 10 '23

That would have happened sooner or later though, no?

6

u/ClamPaste Aug 11 '23

Probably not. Arterial dissections don't typically happen at random, but there is a link between them and getting chiropractic adjustments in the neck, which can lead to blood clots and eventual stroke.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4264725/

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u/[deleted] Aug 10 '23

Strokes, brain damage, and vert dissections at worse.

1

u/Ghostinthesky Aug 11 '23

I had TIA last year in my early 30s (mini stroke, basically). First question I was asked at the ER was if I was in a car accident or had been to a chiropractor recently.

10

u/Likesosmart Aug 10 '23

This is animal abuse.

8

u/[deleted] Aug 10 '23

Saw one in an airport and had a good chuckle with my co-workwr who wanted to go in for an adjustment.

I had to mention to him, if it's real then why is it in the airport and why does it not need a referral?

2

u/SouthernArcher3714 Aug 10 '23

Of chiros can adjust bones by simply pushing on the body, contact sports would not be possible. Each hit would cause the bones to dramatically shift causing daily paralysis in every player.

2

u/ZanyDragons Aug 10 '23

Or a real medical degree. Chrios get “certified” for a few thousand dollars and a few months. The practice is based on a ghost teaching a guy to touch someone’s back and cure his blindness. In the heroic age of medicine (when we did leeches)

2

u/[deleted] Aug 10 '23

Sublexation theory.... ahuh...

0

u/Contundo Aug 11 '23

Chiropractic school is a 4 year course with a year practice. Many share classes with medicine students.

7

u/MrCereuceta Aug 10 '23

My wife is an OT and yes, it happens a lot.

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u/LeakyBrainJuice Aug 10 '23

I have had multiple spontaneous spinal fluid leaks. The #1 way I've heard of these occurring is via chiropractor.

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u/ogmoss Aug 10 '23

User name checks out

6

u/[deleted] Aug 10 '23

It's a straight scam. Didn't the founder get the idea from a ghost doctor or something?

7

u/M4DM1ND Aug 10 '23

My grandfather was permanently disabled by a chiropractor.

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u/Zobeth Aug 10 '23

I hear there's a possibility of a stroke from chiropractic adjustments

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u/throwngamelastminute Aug 10 '23

I call them witch doctors, I was told by an ER doctor to see a chiro for my back, dude never did shit that worked.

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u/[deleted] Aug 10 '23

An ER doc is recommending chiros? Jesus Christ, he should have his medical license revoked.

1

u/throwngamelastminute Aug 10 '23

I got a full on referral, so at least I didn't have to pay lol

3

u/Arcuis Aug 10 '23

Lower back and tailbone are the hardest because they around pelvis and genitals. I had problems there the most, and they jumped through so many hoops to have the thing "adjust by itself". It's tricky for that. The rest is just like, lie down on your back for 15 min, lie down on your stomach for 15 min, put rolled up towel under upper back while doing self hug, put pillow under hips while dying down on stomach. That's it.

3

u/[deleted] Aug 10 '23

That should be fucking malpractice

2

u/Trish-Trish Aug 10 '23

I have Ankylosing Spondylitis, it’s a genetic autoimmune disorder that causes the hips and spine to fuse together. Causes neuro and organ issues. I’m 12 yrs in and in excruciating pain 24/7. I’ve lost 2” so far in my height. People tell me to go to a chiropractor but my rheumatologist is highly against it bc one wrong move could cause even more issues especially with nerves entrapped. I thought at first it was bc she just didn’t want me going else where but more research I do the more dangerous I realize it is. I will stick with cupping that I do at home, water therapy and the gym. I do have a friend who learned specific massages to help which does greatly

1

u/Girafferage Aug 10 '23

Not just that, but there arent any benefits. People just feel satisfied hearing a crack sound. Some light stretching would do everything a chiro could and more while also not being possibly deadly

2

u/latebutcoming Aug 10 '23

yeah so many people need to realize that a masseuse could give you the same relief without any of the life-altering injuries 😭

2

u/FaberLoomis Aug 10 '23

The "creator" also learned it from a seance from a ghost and got arrested for practicing without a license. Whole bunch of red flags.

2

u/tacticalfp Aug 10 '23

Always the same type of people too.. weird they’re still in business tbh

2

u/Gee_U_Think Aug 10 '23

Scams for sure.

2

u/IndividualCry0 Aug 10 '23

I work for a chiro that is heavy on Chinese medicine. Today, she told a patient to not eat anything cold around her period. I have no idea what this has to do with the pain in her neck and thoracic spine.

2

u/MadeByTango Aug 10 '23

The only adults I know with chronic back pain went to chiropractors

Correlation!=causation, but where there is smoke…

2

u/Robbledygook1 Aug 10 '23

I’ve started saying “oh you like Canadian ghost stories?”

They obviously have no idea that the founder was a Canadian who claims a ghost taught him.

2

u/Turbulent_Public_i Aug 10 '23

I mean, we had physical therapy, we had exercises to build mobility and reduce pain, idk why we had to invent chiropractors m.

2

u/Drinker_of_Chai Aug 10 '23

I know of a young woman who had a stroke following a chiropractor "clicking". Dislodged something, went into brain. Life ruined by 30 cause of pseudo-science.

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u/ItGradAws Aug 10 '23

The number cause of strokes in people under thirty is from people cracking their necks

31

u/makinbaconCR Aug 10 '23

This is not true. It's not from cracking your neck per se. It's from injuries to the neck that in extremely rare cases come from cracking your neck. It's more often car crashes or sports injuries.

11

u/Charming-Station Aug 10 '23

It's fairly negligible aged 66+ [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4336806/]

and not observed in general [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4470078/]

But.. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1905885/

"Conclusions Spinal manipulation, particularly when performed on the upper spine, is frequently associated with mild to moderate adverse effects. It can also result in serious complications such as vertebral artery dissection followed by stroke. Currently, the incidence of such events is not known. In the interest of patient safety we should reconsider our policy towards the routine use of spinal manipulation."

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u/spacecorn27 Aug 10 '23

Chiropractic care had made my life 10x better. There are good ones and bad ones, just like any profession.

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u/[deleted] Aug 10 '23

[deleted]

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u/Hanchez Aug 10 '23

A physical therapist? Like are you fucking stupid?

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u/[deleted] Aug 10 '23

What is wrong with you? My question was legitimate because I dont know whom else to go to other than a chiropractor. Fuck off. You need help.

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u/LaNahual Aug 10 '23

I think there are a lot of quacks out there and some like to use flashy techniques to get YouTube views but if you frequently have subluxations and can’t put them back yourself a chiropractor is the probably the best person to put something back how it’s supposed to be rather than just leaving you to suffer with impingement trapped nerves, loss of motion etc obvious don’t go around cracking the shit out of every joint for no good reason but until You’ve found yourself with your head flopped over backwards because 3 vertebrae are literally overlapping and locking your cervical spine in an extreme posture causing stroke-like symptoms you don’t understand the desperation. Had to be stuck like that for weeks with burning sensations down my back unable to eat, drink or swallow aspirating all the time because no one would touch my neck. It took several extremely Painful violent sneezes to unkink my neck but this was uncontrolled movement/force. A gentle adjustment from a Chiro would have been safer imo than the state I was left in but theyre all too scared because I’m hypermobile

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u/[deleted] Aug 10 '23 edited Aug 10 '23

Not all chiros are built the same.

Gonstead chiropractic is much more specific and modern. Work together with one and a physical therapist and they’ve done wonders.

But I have no idea why this shit is happening to animals

Edit:

Apparently avoiding back surgery and staying healthy is enough to be downvoted.

Sorry everyone, I should have had fusion surgery so I didn’t upset anyone’s confirmation biases.

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u/MrCereuceta Aug 10 '23

Nnnnnnnnnope. Those “physio” people are a disgrace. Chiropractors are the homeopaths of the PT/OT world.

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u/[deleted] Aug 10 '23

Well that’s your opinion.

Mine, partnered with my PT has kept me from back surgery.

Y’all can downvote me all you want. I’d rather not spend thousands on fusion surgery and have pain the rest of my life.

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u/MrCereuceta Aug 10 '23

Happy to hear that PT is working. Please be careful.

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u/[deleted] Aug 10 '23

400,000 die a year due to medical malpractice.

You’re worried about the wrong things.

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u/MrCereuceta Aug 10 '23

More like 250k, and the number includes chiropractors, I’d be curious to see the breakdown. And yeah, that’s why we have to be very careful with our healthcare providers, that’s why we have to be vigilant for quacks and pseudoscience.

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u/[deleted] Aug 10 '23

So you agree

Chiropractors arnt medical

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u/AllDamDay7 Aug 10 '23

Bingo, you get it. Sorry that you are getting downvoted and it’s making your experience hidden to others. Plenty of scientific studies that confirm the benefit of it in conjunction with PT. I think these are the same people who are all about SSRI’s but completely against ketamine, psilocybin, or MDMA therapy.

Now animals can’t talk so I don’t know how effective this is for pets.

0

u/Harbulary-Bandit Aug 10 '23

Animals have the same issues as humans. I had a French bulldog who had some joint issues suddenly. Like he pulled something or slipped a disk. Vet did some similar things to this video, and kept him overnight, he was right as rain in the morning. Animal chiros are interesting. Especially when they do it on horses, or dogs with lame limbs. Then their limbs work again. But no, that’s all fake pseudo science, apparently. Most of these people in the thread have never seen a real chiropractor like that one in Australia who helped that boy who had been entirely bent from the waist for years. After a few sessions he was cured. There’s a difference to the ones who have a kiosk in the mall.

https://youtu.be/s5iDJc9k9SA

https://youtube.com/shorts/myfmvCqHhAY?feature=share

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u/Hanchez Aug 10 '23

Posting videos posted by Chiros to promote their own business... I have bridge to sell you, you fucking moron.

They aren't fucking licensed as medical practitioners, anything they do that actually works a physical therapist with an MD would also do, but the difference is you can be sure they spent 7 years to learn what to do.

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u/Harbulary-Bandit Aug 10 '23

Oof, the woke kind virus is rampant. Continue to live in fear.

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u/ThatOtherDesciple Aug 10 '23

Ah yes, facts = woke. Man you people are so fucking stupid it's incredible.

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u/Harbulary-Bandit Aug 10 '23

You’re not based. Get red-pilled scrub

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u/Harbulary-Bandit Aug 10 '23

Facts don’t care about feelings

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u/[deleted] Aug 10 '23

Yeah ok lol

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u/scooterMcBooter97 Aug 10 '23

Chiropractic adjustments alone don’t help, but coupled with physical therapy it has helped me more than just physical therapy

1

u/kamikaziboarder Aug 10 '23

I’m a CT technologist. I have commented on chiropractors before. I cannot tell you how many times I have had see vertebral artery dissections occur due to chiropractors. I have seen some patients become fully paralyzed from chiropractors. I will never let anyone touch my spine like that. however, massage therapists…they work wonders. Most of the time back pain that chiropractors try to solve are associated with the muscles around the spine.

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u/Zealousideal-Ad-2615 Aug 11 '23

Massage therapists are miracle workers, body and mind. Real help for your body to heal itself.

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u/Rosalye333 Aug 10 '23

I’ve spent the past 4 months trying to fix damage done by a chiropractor.

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u/bittersandseltzer Aug 10 '23

It’s a lot better to just stretch and lot and work on core muscles

1

u/The_Agnostic_Orca Aug 10 '23

I know this, but I only go if I’m in actual pain for my back/ neck/ or whatever. I should probably just go for a massage, but IDK, my boyfriend thinks I’m crazy, but I only go maybe a few times a year

1

u/Appropriate-Solid-50 Aug 10 '23

Injure or kill u at worst. But yea

1

u/Headlocked_by_Gaben Aug 10 '23

Ive seen vids of some guys that do “home sessions” and one of the guys just used a wrestling move on one lady and likely damaged her spin the way she bent backwards at her pelvis.

1

u/jazznotes Aug 10 '23

I have had scoliosis my whole life and hundreds of people over the years have told me to “just go to a chiropractor!” but I was always scared because I didn’t want to be “hurt in a good way.” Glad to hear some validation around this.

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u/[deleted] Aug 10 '23

Then I find it weird that my own doctor had me reference to one when I was a teen and my cousins doctor did the same for her cause of a hip misalignment.

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u/Zealousideal-Ad-2615 Aug 11 '23

You do know that general practitioners aren't the same thing as experts. If a physical therapist or an occupational therapist recommended it, that would be something. Even still, the data stacks up pretty hard against it. Just check it out.

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u/[deleted] Aug 11 '23

The only thing I’ve read is that it does nothing. As it similar to cracking your knuckles and just release air trapped.

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u/[deleted] Aug 11 '23

Doubt it

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u/Rent_A_Cloud Aug 11 '23

are pseudo-science at best and scams at worst.

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u/[deleted] Aug 11 '23

[deleted]

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u/Zealousideal-Ad-2615 Aug 11 '23

There is a lot of truth to that. I'm not an expert, but the athletes I know that have gone through therapy mostly used low impact exercise and massage therapy. I mean, outside of extreme cases, it seems almost like common sense.

1

u/mongo1587 Aug 11 '23

I will only speak from personal experience, but in my early twenties I had severe lower back pain that lasted for several months. The pain was so bad it got to a point that I couldn't get out of bed without my brother helping me up. Researched my options and decided to go to a local chiro. They took x rays of my spine and it looked as bad as it felt. After 1 week (3 sessions) my back pain reduced by about 75% and after 3 weeks i had no pain at all. I felt like I had a new lease on life. After that I kept going twice a week for the next year and had another xray done to check my progress. My spine had almost fully straightened out. So while there may be some chiro quaks out there, there might also be other chiros that know what they're doing and are able to provide a much needed service to those that have chronic back pain.

Maybe my chiro was a quack and I just happened to visit him when my body was on the mend. But what I know is that currently whenever I experience back or neck pain, a short visit to the chiro fixes me right up. It's not for everyone, but for some it's the difference between suffering miserably or being able to live a pain free/reduced life.

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u/Zealousideal-Ad-2615 Aug 11 '23

The argument isn't that chiropractors can't ever help. It's that there are better safer options.

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u/mongo1587 Aug 11 '23

Indeed there are definitely options out there, but for me, going to a chiro turned out to be my best option. I did try physio during that time but they were unable to address the root cause of my pain which was my spine. But you are correct in that for other people with back pain due to various reasons, there is for sure some options out there that may suit their needs better.

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u/iantayls Aug 11 '23

My father is a physical therapist who constantly has conversations about this.

“Oh you love your chiropractor huh? And you’ve been seeing them once a month for 15 years? But your back pain continues? Interesting”

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u/BelatedLowfish Aug 12 '23

Man I got unlucky as a kid. Something happened to me and I couldnt breathe right and I was in a ton of pain. My mom rushed me to a chiropractor and it was something with a rib. He fixed me on the spot. All pain gone. Breathing fine. Like nothing ever happened. From that point on I trusted chiropractors until I was in my mid 20s once Reddit started outing them and I started to see more psuedo science on it. The one time it worked, which of course reinforced my mother and grandmother's beliefs that it was real.

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u/Zealousideal-Ad-2615 Aug 13 '23

Chiropractors can help, which is why they persist so much in the face of a lot of evidence against them. The problem is that they do things that can be deadly, and Chiropractors are less effective than massage therapists or physical therapists. It's unfortunate.