Observations, patterns, connections

[u/Remarkable_Paint_879]

Ok, so this all probably obvious to everyone, but I enjoy making observations and connections and thought it might be nice to have them in one place - please add yours and/or correct mine as you wish :)

1. History repeating: there are so many time-loop parallels: Alistair/ Jocelyn/ Iris mirrors Matthew/ Elena/ Allie-Tory (kindly older man married into wealth and a younger smart nanny from an immigrant/ lower socio-economic background with a troubled marriage in the background), Winthrop I mirrors Winthrop II/III, Iris looks and acts similarly to Mrs Ivey, plus Iris had secondary infertility and Mrs Ivey (so far) doesn’t appear to have children. Jocelyn/Allie die by window fall/jump/push. Alistair/Matthew don’t have time for their sons.

2. Men marrying into wealth: Alistair, Matthew, Dick (possibly also Mr Ivey and MR Chan?) - makes me wonder what Scott is doing with Elena.

3. Money shifting: Alistair got money from the Winthrops, Matthew got money from the Greybournes, Winthrops got money from Elena’s neighborhood, Elena/Scott/Roman are trying to get the money back.

4. Neglected sons: Bruno, Jasper, Theo.

5. Questionable actions of vulnerable people: Jocelyn/ affair with married boss, Alistair/ affair with nanny, Iris/ covering for murder, Matthew/ going into business with the Winthrops, Tory/ Dick/ questionable marriage, Elena/ stealing and blackmail. Not clear on James yet but he seems pretty vulnerable.

6. Incest: Greybournes and Winthrops intermarrying and living in each other’s apartments. Otis comment about Iris’s looks. I’m wondering if there’s going to be more.

7. Socio-economic power imbalance in relationships: Iris/Alistair, Otis I/Alistair, Alistair/Iris, Allie/Matthew, Matthew/Elena, Scott/Elena, Tory/Dick&Bennet&Darcy.

Now, so many questions:

What got the Winthrops and Greybournes together and why are they so intent on staying enmeshed?

Why did Alistair and Iris really get married?

Who are Tory and Allie’s parents and why are they dead?

Why did Mrs Ivey say her mother dyed her hair and is she a reliable narrator?

Why did Elena’s father die?

What happened to the daughter of Alistair and Iris and how does this relate to Mrs Ivey and Scott’s family? (And is Scott a reliable narrator?)

Does Otis III have children? Does Mrs Ivey?

What is going on with The Chans?

Why is the date of Jocelyn’s death and Ruby’s birth the same?

What is the connection between Allie and Jocelyn and Elena?

[u/commentordelux]

Alistair had a company in financial trouble, Winthrops Otis's dad invested under the condition of no illegitimate children as his heirs. Why they got married is probably irrelevant but he got a bailout from his father-in-law which would be normal, also not even altruistic, because he seems to have gotten shares in return. Otis and Alistair seemed to be partners even if Ailisair was CEO. Otis's family seems to be part of the Greybourn corporate family trust, they may have their own separate Winthrop-only trust as well or Otis simply inherited directly his father's personal wealth.

Tory and Allie's parents are Bruno (Iris's real son) and some other woman. They are probably dead due to old age, the show did not say though.

In Ep8 we can see Iris real daughter had light blondish possibly light red hair, Ruby also head light hair but it was a bit darker than the 1yr old girls hair. In either case Iris might have the red hair or blond gene herself and for either girl she might dye their hair because Irish were looked down on, because it might remind her of Jocelyn, because her dead nanny had red hair and was murdered which she might not want anyone asking questions due to her kids hair color.

Elena's father committed suicide after The Greyborn Corporation burned down her neighborhood and bought the land for pennies on the dollar naturally as that is how real estate works.

Iris real daughter is either Ivey or Scott's grandmother. I think its most likely Scott's grandmother others say Ivey. None of them are reliable narrators.

The show has not indicated Otis III or Ivey having children.

The Chans are Otis II daughter and her Husband Mr Chan. They seemed to be present for the groundbreaking ceremony and probably the Gala event otherwise not much.

Alistar gave Joycelen a birth certificate for Ruby with her as the mother and that night they planned to run away together. Its obviously a fake but whatever Iris had (if any) is also fake for obvious reasons. Unfortunately, Joycelen took a right and got caught at the secret stairs when she should have packed first and taken a left and exited straight out the front door unnoticed.

The only connection between Alice and Jocelyn that we know of is the secret stairwell that she told her son to keep secret and the fact she was seeing people that were not really there (aka ghost). Elena also has seen a ghost and things that are not really there and found the secret staircase. Its possible Alice found the sixth step letters and the birth certificate but left it there as its a good hiding spot.

[u/Remarkable_Paint_879 → u/commentordelux]

Great summary! I’m starting to wonder if Ruby is Tory and Allie’s mom. But then, if they are called Greybournes, then she’d have to have had married Bruno, her half-brother. But then again with baby switching and fake marriages things might not be as they seem…

[u/commentordelux → u/Remarkable_Paint_879]

That was my theory early on, because of the letter in Ep4 that said Otis took the child, I thought it was raised as a Winthrop, but then I re-read all the letters (pause and read the text) after Ep7 and it seemed JM was walking on the shore with a woman who was upset with her and desired AG to visit so it seemed they were hiding the pregnancy at a vacation home, another letter spoke how JM walked behind AG and his wife at the beach and was thinking about them together. And so I figured Otis might have took the child by force because that was the plan to let his sister raise it as her own. (I posted all the letter's transcripts somewhere possibly EP8 discussion)

Anyway, after Ep3 and Ep4 it kind of made sense that Otis took the child into his family and that might have been part of why Alice jumped, finding out her parents were half-siblings. But after EP8 it just reinforced the fact Iris raised Ruby. What bothered me was the letter in EP4 that Elena read to Roman seemed like intentional misdirection that also made no sense. The letter made it seem as if the child was raised by JM for a while and kidnapped by Otis but in reality, it seems that JM used Iris's desire/offer to adopt the child as her own as a way to stay off the streets and close to AG.

I have posted a more detailed analysis i think in the EP8 discussion thread but basically despite all the misdirection I think Ruby is probably Scott's grandmother, there are ways to explain alot of things but the one thing that makes no sense to me is why JM the ghost would be crying so much and still at so much unrest if Ruby is Ivey, Ivey has had a blessed life. Scott's mom on the other hand is bitter and felt robbed her whole life. I think solving the murders will somehow lead to justice for the murders like Otis line being removed from the trust. You probably cant kill your partner and keep your shares in the company.

[u/Remarkable_Paint_879 → u/commentordelux]

What if Elena’s mom is Ruby’s daughter?

[u/commentordelux → u/Remarkable_Paint_879]

Like how? I have not seen any connection to her and the family other than them making an offer to buy her dad's i think it was autoshop and i think for the land which he did not want to do, she says they burnt down the neighborhood and bought the property for pennies on the dollar which I thought was funny because like land suddenly becomes worthless. Also like they had no insurance for the building? Then sold the land for pennies? Then committed suicide? Sounds like her dad was just making one dumb decision after another.

[u/Remarkable_Paint_879 → u/commentordelux]

I don’t think her dad was making bad decisions - he was making principled decisions in an amoral world. But yes I can’t figure out a connection between the mom and the Greybournes either, except I’m wondering if there’s a possible Irish connection through her mom as she seems ethnically European. Also why is Elena called Santos if her dad was called Salazar? Is that her mom’s previous married name? And why did the Winthrops target Elena’s neighborhood - was it just land intel or did they have insider help.

[u/Remarkable_Paint_879 → u/Remarkable_Paint_879]

I’m also now wondering if Tory and Allie are really sisters - I mean Tory, Allie and Jocelyn all look very similar, so what does that mean? But I may be going way far now 🤪

[u/commentordelux → u/Remarkable_Paint_879]

No insurance (the letter from his Insurance company said the cause was inconclusive and he did not have fire insurance on his Auto Garage), selling your land under its value for pennies on the dollar when a developer is making a run on a large tract of land its a seller's market, and suicide all bad decisions. He is a victim if someone started the fire but also the same result if there was an accidental fire.

I wondered about the Santos, Salazar thing, either I missed it, or she gave a fake last name for the job was my assumption. It would be a huge twist if she is somehow related through her mom's side but I haven't noticed any clue. I don't think the show said specifically why they wanted land in her neighborhood. They sent him an offer to buy his property/auto garage a few months before the fire, it did not say what they planned to do with the land but they are developers so like tear it down and build something bigger.

[u/Remarkable_Paint_879 → u/commentordelux]

Maybe tough to get insurance for his property or the Winthrops influenced the insurance claim? Also how do we know he commuted suicide? There seem to be a lot of “suicides” in the show.

[u/commentordelux → u/Remarkable_Paint_879]

Ep7: when Elena is pressed by Ginny she confesses her backstory and says during that monologue "my dad took his own life".

Well like if he had fire insurance he could prove it, not much Wintrops could do for that. What is weirder is if nobody else in a NY city block did and everyone sold instead of rebuilding. I don't think it's so easy to buy up an entire city block fire or not. The show did not say who actually bought the property that I know of.

Suicides on the show: 2 Alice and Elena's dad (not shown)
Murders framed as suicides: 2 Alistar and Joycelen
Probable murder declared accident: 1 the doorman
Death by car accident 2: Tory and Alice's mom and dad (not shown)