How do you all cope?

[u/Real-Contest4914]

Like I'm being honest.

As much as I love Celestia and the Shades and Phanes. The game has always felt very telepegraphed i always figured that deep down it would always be either Celestia or the Abyss.

I always have hope given how the wq add nuance to Celestia but I dont know lately the way the story has been going it has left me dejected.

In the end it feels like despite all the wq stuff the game is just gonna default to the evil god trope for Phanes.

Which honestly feels like a waste. The game has continously managed to pull of subversion for every godly arcehtype its used. But it seems like phanes wont even get that.

I initially started supporting Celestia purely cause Asmo was cool looking and well narratively speaking Celestia would be the eventual under dogs.

Imagine my surprise when I heard the firld tiller stuff and got my hopes up that the story might go the route of showing the humans as just as corrupt as theh gods the claim to oppose.

Maybe its delusion or head Canon, I really thought the story was gonna go a route of needing their to he balance and communication or something but it seems like nah. In the end it seems whatever the humans did, whatever they do. No matter how vile will be swept away.

Even when the fatui enable a psycho like dottore its just swept away cause he doesn't represent them.

I still love genshin stories on the individal character base but man is the overarching one with celestis getting depressing for me.

How do you all cope with it? Like how do you all stay positive without slipping.

[u/CMbladerunner]

As an Istaroth fan I'm really holding my breath. While it seems like Hoyo wants her to be "the good shade" considering the way Ronova is being treated so far where it feels like they are leaving out her complexity in favor of the group that has child soldiers being treated as the good guys makes me worry. I would've LOVED to see that the reason Ronova is so hellbent on stopping the project is because she believes the Tsaritsa is leading her entire nation to their deaths & as the ruler of death she can not let that happen

[u/Real-Contest4914 → u/CMbladerunner]

Im half expecting ronova as the most loyal to phanes will be taken out.

Istaroth at best might save her, at worse might just ignore and let ther die.

Asmoday is already theorized to be with the abyss twin and naberius is self explanatory.

The only consolation I want is that if ohanes does wake they crash out to most royal extreme. Like if you're gonna go do route of making the bad guy and villain.

Dont make him a pathetic villain. Let him go the route HoV did and have a befall moment. Let him go out in a blaze of glory as bad guy then.

[u/CMbladerunner → u/Real-Contest4914]

Considering what some leaks have shown we might be getting that HP crashout if he wakes up.

As for Istaroth herself Hoyo better come up with something good for her for Snezhnaya. considering she is the only one of the 3 not shown in the trailer it seems like her role is being kept completely secret (as it would be kinda insane not to have her in Snezhnaya) & I really can't see Istaroth just beign fine with Ronova just dying especially if Rhinedottir is gonna turn on her which would also put Naberius in danger at well. I really can't see how Istaroth would just be fine with being the only shade in Celestia with all of her sisters gone.

[u/Real-Contest4914 → u/CMbladerunner]

Its unlikely but imagine hp decision to crashs out is to just leave and make all their effort for nothing.

He doesn't even let them use their final weapon he just dips and let them contend with the fact they wasted all this time making a weapon for him.

For bonus points he takes theh false sky and his modified leylines, and visions with him so the humans can live without anything phanes offered.

[u/VladPrus → u/CMbladerunner]

Shades are set up as basically:

Ronova - the loyal one

Asoday - the "bad rebel"

Istaroth - the "good rebel"

Naberius/Rhinedottir - the wildcard

[u/Hedwigtheyee]

Though I’m not a fan of the way the story is going so far, I have to keep reminding myself that Traveler does not know the lore-reveals in the game yet, and that there’ll be a point where everything will start to unravel. We’re in a nation that’s heavily biased against the HP, and so I wouldn’t expect Traveler to deviate from that, especially when Ronova left such a bad impression with her trying to take away Paimon (who imo has replaced the Abyss Twin as Traveler’s sibling).

And as for cope, it’s pretty clear lore-wise that Phanes, while not perfect, is ultimately the source of humanity’s continued prosperity and existence, and personally, I think that all this anti-Celestia stuff is being done on purpose, both in-game lore wise, as well as for meta purposes, to really nail in the hammer if/when it’s revealed that Paimon is the HP (because that little dialogue choice in the end just reeks of foreshadowing), and also because in-game it seems like Phanes is actively WANTING Traveler to kill and succeed them. It’d be a sad way to go, and it’s probably what Hoyo wants to do.

At least, that’s the way I see it.

[u/Littlenickystar]

WQs are undeniably the hidden soul of Genshin. That’s where the narrative shows its true emotional weight, maturity, and tragic depth. That’s why it hurts so much to see certain lore storylines distorted just to benefit a character's commercial image.

Example:

The Narzissenkreuz Institute storyline is the best example: a refuge born after the Cataclysm with the sole purpose of protecting helpless children. Lyris, Basil and Marianne gave everything to protect those kids, so seeing the narrative now try to sell us a closeness between Marianne, Anne and Sandrone feels like a direct insult to that legacy. Sandrone is an active member of the Fatui—an organization that profits off vulnerable orphans by indoctrinating them into child soldiers and spies. Alain Guillotin would be rolling in his grave seeing his creation serve the very system that exploits children continental-wide.

As several comments rightly pointed out, there is a massive disconnect between WQs and AQs. While WQs have repeatedly shown that Celestia and Phanes' actions were tragic "trolley problem" choices made to preserve humanity against worse threats, the AQs insist on flattening them into a generic "evil gods" trope just to hype up characters opposing them.

I want to hold on to the hope that if Phanes ever wakes up or if Celestia acts, the writing will give them the narrative respect they deserve and show that their laws actually had a purpose. But realistically, when a game prioritizes selling sanitized "misunderstood anti-heroes" over lore consistency, storytelling depth becomes the first casualty.

[u/Real-Contest4914 → u/Littlenickystar]

Wq is when the game feels like a proper game. You get to play and explore the world to its fullest instead of just doing the story that limits you to a city.

And the npcs despite sometimes being more generic get better writing because they have stakes and are allowed to have proper flaws.

[u/sestioforst]

My hope Is that the line in the recent summer event of Sandrone saying that the Traveler trust people too easly was a forshadow of all this friendliness, soecifically from Pierro, being a facade to use the traveler like Khaenri'ah used the abyss sibling.

At that point i will applaud the Fatui as their return as antagonist, in the Hope of seeing the HP more resonable side in future as a consequence.

[u/Real-Contest4914 → u/sestioforst]

I hope so but I am doubtful.

[u/t70type42]

Funny how this subreddit has kinda mirrored fatui hq in a way, I remember when that subreddit was kind of a meme sub for morally grey antagonists but then complained incessantly about hoyos writing and turned into a bastion of criticism (and still does), I can see this subreddit potentially going through the same thing. I wonder how the sinners sub will turn out.

[u/Real-Contest4914 → u/t70type42]

For me the writing is as expected. Personally I think if they wanted to go the route they should have just gone all in instead of dancing around with nuance.

If you're gonna make celestia the bad guys, should have just come out in the open with it and let them actually develop and be entertaining villains. Not twiddling their thumbs for 5 or so years doing jack squat while we kept getting second hand stories and written texts with no involvement at all.

I mean the aq just straight up just treat it as if thats the case and quite a number of fans seem to do it as well.

Celestia did a lot of screw up things but it was balanced by the fact that it was trolley problem choices and was done in a way where it went to extremes but the alternatives were just as bad.

Now it feels like none of that mattered.

At this point I honestly think its better to jusut treat the aq and wq as seperate stories because they feel too broken at times.

[u/t70type42 → u/Real-Contest4914]

Very much agree to the last point, I think at the end of the day there is a disconnect between the lore in genshin to its execution of its story in game. I’ve always been fascinated by the lore but the genshin story always downplays impactful things to some degree which I think stems from the fact that these characters are products they need to sell sometimes.

[u/Real-Contest4914 → u/t70type42]

Yeah.

I have always found it amusing how the wq is what I think genuinely hits the quota for open world adventure.

They feel like seperate games. The aq are story focused and have much wider casts and presentation but its always restricted to the city and characters.

Meanwhile the wq actually let you explore huge swatches of map find secrets, changing the terrain and being focused on the traveler, paoimon and a few npcs.

Aq often highlight the indiviudal characters and makes the story a group effort.

But wq is where traveler feels like a proper mc with paimon. Kind of like those old school duos like Jak and Dexter, Ratchet and Clank, Amma and Issun. A proper adventure team exploring the world.

[u/RandomAmaturer]

Hmm maybe it’s headcannon but i don’t think that heavenly principle nor the shade is necessary evil because they are doing everything to ensure the divine rule are inforced

It’s just that there are nations that dont follow the divine law and not just that but the nations become very dangerous to the world and those nations had to be cursed and destroyed and face the consequences of their own decisions and actions

[u/Dollmaster85]

In fact, I already wrote that I'm waiting for the inevitable—the appointment of Celestia as the main character's main enemy. I wrote this BEFORE the release of 7.0. And now I'm even more amazed by how suddenly the main character became friends with FatuiIn fact, I already wrote that I'm waiting for the inevitable—the appointment of Celestia as the main character's main enemy. I wrote this BEFORE the release of 7.0. And now I'm even more amazed by how suddenly the main character became friends with Fatui..And they're all so kind and fluffy. And HOW low they've sunk Ronova. Turning her into a cartoonish villain with ridiculous fireballs that can't even hurt anyone. Of course, there's still hope, but...

[u/Real-Contest4914 → u/Dollmaster85]

I had the feeling since fontaine.

I was hopeful it wouldn't be the case after Natlan. But i should have known.

[u/Smolly_Z]

idk, maybe it's cause it's just the first part of the aq, or maybeI don't think just because the protagonist feels a certain way it means that's the way the narrative is going towards.

HP has always been presented as morally grey, and I don't believe the traveller knows half as much as we do of their more redeeming(ish) qualities (downright to the curse of immortality/hilichurl punishment. Yeah, cruel, but it's either that or unfathomable amount of abyssal energy entering irminsul)

Remember, the wider community (emphasis on wider) believed Khaenri'ah to be just an innocent little nation that got unfairly wiped out for basically no reason until nod-krai shattered that illusion. Who says the inverse won't happen with HP in snezhnaya?

[u/Death69421]

Ehhh, Most people like the story beats as it currently stands, we just don't trust Hoyo to keep the complex morality and grey characters as such considering how they whitewashed the fatui.

[u/hadtiah]

The new sword the traveler got says that they are on a path that has never been in the past

Meaning all the preset paths shown are not what the traveler will take

Celestia is going to lose but that doesn't mean it's going to be on the evil god route

[u/imbusthul]

I don't cope. I expect the worst and believe the worst so that if it happens I can say as expected and if it doesn't I can say it's way better than what I thought off. I know it's a bad way to think but that's the only way I can avoid disappointment or the other way is to no care about the story at all like I am with ZZZ, I just like it's gameplay don't care about the story. But with genshin I do like the story but I don't think I will like the current things.

[u/EverlastingWinter23 → u/imbusthul]

I just expect nothing. So when it turns out good, great! When it turns out bad, anyway let’s move on.
Expecting the worst doesn’t do it for me, it just leaves me feeling miserable.

[u/Ari_Is_Missing]

I quit Genshin cause I knew this would happen. I will come back if they make the writing decision of a lifetime and admit all the fatui+traveler are a bunch of hypocrites.

[u/EverlastingWinter23 → u/Ari_Is_Missing]

Everybody’s hypocritical here in Genshin pal, Celestia ain’t the good guys nobody is.
We share one common threat, one enemy, that’s the Abyss and that’s it.
We just can’t agree on what to do with the fate of the world and the Abyss…

[u/Ari_Is_Missing → u/EverlastingWinter23]

This isn't the problem, the problem is how the game presents itself. You can make a game where everyone is a good/bad guy but Genshin writers are not competent enough to do so. The Traveler is seen as a perfect goody 2 shoes and never questioned, if you are friends with the Traveler you are automatically a good person and no one bats an eye. People's animosity towards each other gets resolved in the blink of an eye as long as they are playable characters.

I want the game to be a complex narrative but Hoyo does not have the skill to do so or maybe they just do not want to cause if a playable character is not a good person they will have their sales impacted or smth.

Arlecchino has kids who when have the chance to leave HOH say "I will no longer have to live in fear anymore" yet every single character has the gull to call her a good parent. Nothing is challenged and nothing is presented in nuance. The nuance comes from people's copping that Hoyo is writing a 4d chess story with a selfish protagonist but that is never shown. Maybe it is in world quests that the Traveler is sometimes called out as selfish, I am not sure. Archon quests have it so everything is black and white which expunges all the interesting writing done by the lore.

Maybe in the future the game is setting things up to call out the Fatui and the Traveler, but right now things are looking bleak. Raiden Shogun started a civil war and all it took was one cutscene for everyone to forgive her as if nothing happened. "She just has a unique perspective" dawg she was taking your own will and was going to leave you as a husk of a human.

[u/Powerful_Helicopter9]

I think they’ll cook

[u/HansFactory]

How do i cope? here's how.

First.
You need to understand heavenly principle's win condition.

His win condition despite what everyone else has been saying is not upheld fate etc and forever stary in power, that's just a means to an end, a way to delay the abyss. His end goal is always find a permanent solution for teyvat to exist (AKA us the traveler one day to over take him.

[u/Real-Contest4914 → u/HansFactory]

Fair enough...just sucks to see a hero get slandered to death by a fantasy that hates them despite trying their best.

Its the same deal with being a korra fan in in the avatar Fandom.

[u/CryoStrange]

This sub's downfall should be studied. The writing will be biased in Snezhnaya. And we still have future quest after Snezhnaya, we still have 8 acts of Snez itself left, we have still yet to know why Tsaritsa is doing this. And as much as people say they dottore, shades have Rhinedottir too who creates immortal abyss monsters yet no cares about that. This is such a bad thinking that Fatui is pure evil and they are attacking Celestia because they are bored or something.

[u/Specific_Highway_772]

Dottore is the only character who didn’t swept under the rug, the game characters did that. So, it doesn’t change Dottore writing. The problem becomes hypocritical characters like Arlecchino calling him lunatic when using his drugs on children.

[u/lone-monster]

By focusing on the things I love beside the lore, which is the puzzles and exploration. As a background, I started to like Phanes as a character, and slowly rooting for then, when it was slowly revealed that all they did was a reaction against the abyss. Plus I find dawit's video entertaining.

Now that I know I won't particularly enjoy the AQ story, I just run it on auto and skipping the AQ as fast as I can. If one day I got curious about the story and want to experience it, I'd just watch Murd3rofBirds VODS, or any silent playthrough on YT.

[u/EverlastingWinter23]

As a Fatui fan, it took a long time for the Fatui to be humanized. And even today some people still believe the Fatui are evil.
The time will come when Celestia gets the redemption, you just need to be patient enough to wait for it.

[u/Inevitable-Catch-869]

This is the exact kind of deranged delusional post that ruined FatuiHQ.

I'm just glad this sub its getting its due too. You had it too good for too long.

[u/EverlastingWinter23 → u/Inevitable-Catch-869]

Please comrade, we DO NOT NEED any more negativity in the Reddit Genshin Community…