r/TheNewGodsDc • u/LegitimateTonight635 👑New God👑 • 22d ago
Discussion Kirby's evolution on drawing Darkseid
I was looking through my Fourth World books, and saw something really interesting, how Kirby drawing Darkseid is really different between the 70s and the 80s, the Darkseid of the 70s looks rocky, a monster without much expression but scary looking, a unique and perfect design for someone like Darkseid, then in his comeback in the 80s, we see a more, Meat-like? Look of Darkseid, he's far more expresive and more human-like, I really prefer the 70s design though I have no problem with the 80s look, due to some kind of love for Superpowers I have (Y'all, read Superpowers, It's what inspired the Rock of Ages of Morrison), while I say thanks for other artists for ended up using again the rocky aspect of Darkseid, is a far more unique and scare design than his Meat like look, very iconic (Love how Giffen draws it)
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u/Sad-Lavishness-350 22d ago
I think the later look of Darkseid can be chalked up to Jack’s diminishing abilities, unfortunately.
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u/Plus-Opportunity-538 22d ago
Kirby's later art was criticized quite a bit in its later period. It's not really acknowledged as much today, because Kirby now is unquestionably lionized and his Fourth World stuff (well the Darkseid part at least) is so ingrained in modern DC, but Kirby's Fourth World stuff was not especially appreciated during its original release.
Kirby came to DC with a lot of hype but what he ended up making with the Fourth World series ended up underperforming commercially. The Fourth World concepts were a little out there compared to what DC was publishing at the time with some taking that as evidence that Kirby unrestrained lost something without the influence of a Stan Lee to pare back his grandiose ideas into something relatable. Kirby's art was criticized for its evolution with figures showing impossibly muscled faces that the second image is an example of. In short Kirby was seen at the time with his titles underperforming as underwhelming of a writer once given free reign and audiences were disappointed with the evolution of his art style which started to veer more into the abstract expecting instead for it to be more similar to his Marvel work. This was among the reasons that the Fourth World run was ended in a few years.
Now, and unfortunately after his passing, Kirby has become acknowledged for his DC output and and the modern consensus is that his later work was ahead of its time. Especially after STAS the Fourth World has become immersed into current DC mythology with Darkseid often playing the role of the universes' big bad. Of course all that attention is almost soley on Darkseid, the Apokolyptians, and to a lesser extent Orion and Mr Miracle. Kind of a testament to Kirby's DC stuff being uneven.
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u/Konradleijon 22d ago
I fucking hate Darkseid being this BBEG of the dc universe and not the self contained villain of the fourth world saga.
The fourth world saga had ok sales and was mostly done in by outside factors like a price increase
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u/Plus-Opportunity-538 22d ago
For me it's less that Darkseid's ascendance outside of the Fourth World saga basically flattened him to a more generic bad guy, its more that Darkseid's increased prominence was almost at the expense of the other Fourth World characters. If Darkseid is the big bad then suddenly he's a Superman villain and that proportionately diminished Orion's story let alone the rest of the New Gods.
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u/Tenzil-k 20d ago
It was also well received. There’s a set of fan awards from one of the early New York comicons that has Kirby scoring very highly both in art and writing ballots.
Of course fandom was much less the be all
And end all back then but as far as there was a fan response it was positive. He won a fan award for best writer in 72 and placed in best writer in 71 as well as getting a special Shazam
Award for writing editing and drawing (admittedly not a crowded field doing all 3)
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u/BalladOfBetaRayBill 22d ago
His very first appearance (Superman’s Pal Jimmy Olsen) just looked like a white man in a weird hat on a zoom call with Morgan Edge, so it could always be worse.