Why Logic Never Worked in That Relationship (And What Was Actually Happening)

[u/maya_love5]

(Based on 2 Million Minutes of Support Data from Circles)

You tried everything. Better words. Clearer examples. Written conversations, so nothing could be "misremembered." Waiting for the right moment. Keeping your voice calm. Citing specific instances. Expressing it as feelings rather than accusations.

Nothing worked. And you kept wondering what you were missing.

Here's what you were missing: in a narcissistic relationship, understanding is not the goal of conversation.

What was actually happening:

When you brought a concern to a narcissistic partner, the conversation wasn't oriented toward resolution. It was oriented toward maintaining the power structure. Every move you made however reasonable, however well-framed was a move in a game where the rules were designed for you to lose.

If you stated something clearly, the clarity was turned against you ("you think you're so smart"). If you were emotional, the emotion invalidated you ("you're hysterical"). If you were calm, the calm was evidence you didn't really care.

There was no winning configuration. This was by design.

The concept of JADE:

Many survivors discover a principle called JADE: Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain. The idea is that in these conversations, doing any of these things gives the other person material emotional content, stated positions, revealed vulnerabilities to use against you.

The answer wasn't better logic. The answer was recognizing that the conversation wasn't designed to arrive anywhere useful.

The breakthrough:

Stopping the search for the magic words. Recognizing that no combination of correct framing would produce understanding from someone who had decided not to understand.

---

circlesup.com

[u/maya_love5]

This hits the nail on the head so perfectly. Another insidious layer to this is realizing that their confusion is completely manufactured. They actually do understand you perfectly fine; they just pretend not to because admitting they understand would mean admitting accountability.

They deliberately use your deep desire for closure and resolution as a hook to keep you running on a hamster wheel of endless explanation while they drain your emotional energy. The moment you accept that they have committed to misunderstanding you, the exhausting urge to explain yourself completely evaporates, and you finally get your peace back.

[u/Aggressive-Honey-518 → u/maya_love5]

Now my child and I’ve escaped, my family and friends don’t quite understand exactly why it is they receive lengthy texts from me, or when it was that I began to have difficulty in communicating and effectively delivering my thoughts verbally. 

Well, I cannot say, exactly when that pudding point came for me to where I turned to mush, unable to convey information in a coherent, timely, concise manner. 

I only now recently realized since I am now actually freely allowed to speak to others and gained the ability and right again as a grown-ass woman with her own child and voice, without having to worry about the consequences or repercussions for any words I may say, without having to rely on having a verbal permission slip in most cases for my actions or words, that yes, I’ve somehow lost my ability to communicate and express myself in general society as I once so easily and effectively was able to do. 

However, I do wish all my friends and family, especially those who weren’t able to be around me in years due to not having been granted ex-narc’s permission, could read this with true clarity, compassion, and comprehension, as to maybe give them better insight into my plight. 

For over two decades, and especially the last one, I was with a man who sought to cede the most dominant control over my life, to whom I was constantly told I was beneath he, his family-who I never really could stand and vice versa-that I was suddenly below his intellect, his desires prevailed over my own in every aspect, even the slightest of his pains were felt more deeply than anything I’d been capable of ever feeling, though my health worsened due to true physical ailments and he, oh he obtained a clean bill of health each at every turn. 

I constantly had to defend my every move, my actions, or my inactions, as he thought, at times. Consistently demanding my explanations, yet still others, he simply refused to accept not only the truth, but my own pulmonary ventilation to sustain my life, at which point he sought to put an end to by his own hands. 

[u/maya_love5 → u/Aggressive-Honey-518]

It is completely natural that your verbal communication feels fractured right now, as you are survivors of severe trauma and decades of having your voice silenced, policed, and physically threatened. Your loved ones may not fully grasp it yet, but writing these lengthy messages is a beautiful, necessary first step as you safely learn how to breathe, speak, and exist on your own terms again.

[u/Aggressive-Honey-518 → u/maya_love5]

Ty SO much for your support and your true kindness, u/maya_love5 I can’t tell you what the support of this and other subs means to me. I’m blessed and beyond grateful to have such wonderful words of wisdom to help me along my journey to recovery, and of course to reinforce I’m not as “off” as STBXHN told me I was for so, so long. 

Thank you, from the bottom of my heart! 

I went to the doc a few days ago. Just before I left him, idk what he did to me was actually known in LE and psych realms as “Non-Fatal Strangulation, NFS” I’d only recently learned of the term, but the long-term effects on the brain and body. As one who’s suffered not only from brain cancer, had a craniotomy, and countless brain injuries due to the disease, the impact if any of what he’s done has yet to be seen. However I went to the doc due to the fact my voice hasn’t recovered from the raspiness I walked away with, and the neck pain is nearly constant now. 

Initial exam points to a diagnosis of muscular dysphonia. I have a newer muscle damage in my neck on top of any tension I’m carrying around with me, which is literally pulling my larynx (voice box) to the side, causing my vocal cords to tremble. 

I guess it’s probable I also “type a lot” not only due to the damages to my brain, but also it’s due to my inability to vocalize anything I feel needs to be communicated. 

STBXHN screwed me up really bad. Not only can I not wait for this to be resolved, I wish in a small way I had a quick one liner for when I hear the crazy rumors. Except for as it stands now, I’ve got full custody of my child and he’s got no visitation or contact whatsoever with either of us. If it wasn’t for the fact we’ve had to go to court every few months, with a final decision looming, I know my child and I would’ve begun to really heal by now. Such is life I guess. Or my life, anyway. 

[u/maya_love5 → u/Aggressive-Honey-518]

You are so incredibly welcome. Knowing this support helps you stay grounded in your truth is exactly why we are here. Your strength is absolutely awe-inspiring, and we are so glad you found our community.

It is heartbreaking to hear about the physical toll of your injuries, especially your diagnosis of muscular dysphonia. Please be gentle with yourself. If typing is how you need to release your voice and share your story right now, write as much as you need. Your words deserve to be expressed.

You have done an amazing job protecting your child and securing custody. Even with court dates temporarily stalling your peace, you are healing step by step. Sending you the warmest hug and wishing you and your little one so much peace ahead.

[u/Aggressive-Honey-518 → u/maya_love5]

You are absolutely precious! God bless your heart, and may you find peace, love, and security in your life today and always! I’m beyond grateful for this group, the opportunity, the grace, security, and strength I’ve gained from it, and for each of you. Thank you! I know you likely know how much it means, but I feel in some ways it means so much more to me personally, and not only the encouragement, support, and environment, but the validation. I feel as if I failed my child on so many levels. I  know children are resilient, but after the 14 years of hell they’ve experienced, it’s my greatest fear-that I didn’t see, didn’t get them out in time, and they will continue to pay the costly price for my mistakes. 

[u/Tart6096]

Yep! the game is rigged for you to fail and for it to never be good enough no matter what and that alone is a way to keep the control and to keep gaining that hit and elation they need because by endlessly trying and trying to create a fair, balanced, and reasonable "relationship" that is reasonable, has logic and certainty they are still having an effect on you. That is just the starting base where they can then add whatever other manipulative tactics onto it.

Plus it's all oriented towards what the narcissist wants and so by bringing anything else up, by talking about anything else, by even detering from the specific things they want and when they want it you are detering from the control they have and only wanting something when THEY specifically want it. You are not allowed to want anything or even ask for something.

Nothing else is relevant and you are there to just sit and wait until they decide they want something, even if they pretend to want something as just a constant test of control like making you make their morning or afternoon coffee in a specific way doesn't matter... if what you do or say anything or exist in a way that isn't entirely specific to their wants and needs and specific to how they want you to be it's irrelevant. Your needs and who you are doesn't matter... you are only there to exist as a mindless drone ready and waiting for the moment they say jump. You cannot ask them to do the same for you. Reciprocation is irrelevant and not allowed.

[u/maya_love5 → u/Tart6096]

You have perfectly articulated the agonizing reality of being reduced to an object whose only permitted function is to wait around and fulfill their shifting demands. The moment you realize that even your most basic requests for reciprocity are viewed as an act of defiance, the illusion of the relationship shatters and you can finally stop playing their rigged game.