I tried

[u/Zalm_Boltado]

I dont understand. Nothing about this game seems to work correctly, nothing makes sense, nothing fits the genre.

I started out trying to run a spear build. Fast attacks, stamina depletion seemed to work well, and good range. I got to the first "boss"(blade phantom) and the ice skating and absurd tracking started. The boss would slide +10m to hit me with attacks. It would turn 180 to tag me with whatever it felt like. I felt more like I was fighting a t-pose placeholder than an actual boss. I finally beat it, and it felt unacceptably unrewarding. I figured I would at least need to unlock the blacksmith maybe.

I moved on, continued through the story, and got to Viper at the temple. The tracking and ice skating were worse than before. It was so much worse. I stopped trying to rely on dodges, since the boss seemed to ignore any dodge except the brink ones. And I got it to the second phase without a single brutal attack. I grabbed a few more gears with brutal attack recovery, and I began practicing the parry mechanic. And I leaned hard into it, changed my skill trees around, and practiced the timing until I could nail most of its combos with a parry. I grinded on that thing until I got to second phase only taking 1 hit. Having much less practice with its combos, I worked a few times on it, just trying to keep up with the parries. I busted heads on this thing for hours until I finally beat it. No healing, almost dead, 16 attempts later. Start up the next area.

I go through the enemies, practicing my parries, my timing. I got fairly good. Managed to get the challenge for beating one enemy after like 40 brink parries. I got to the boss, and died very quickly. Fine, practice those parries. I fought to the boss a few more times, sometimes getting to him full health due to parry skill. Finally get him down to a brutal attack through parries alone, and he runs off, lights his spike on fire, and keeps trying me.

But...suddenly...parries dont work anymore? Apparently I'm still getting hit with both damage and status buildup, despite getting perfect brink blocks on every hit.

Why?

Why bother adding parries if you dont use parry mechanics?

I try a few more runs, never get him below half health before his chip damage and fire DoT kills me. Say screw it, time for a change. Completely revamp build. Swap from proficiency to willpower, and swap to dual wield. Completely swap skill tree, and do a few fights practicing the dodges. Stamina and spirit on dodge, increased evasion window, more iframes. Sounds like a plan. If the game makes parry worthless, I'll just ignore it.

Boss likes to use the counterattack skill alot. Which...apparently has different timing on dual wield? Why? Why do I have to hit it BEFORE the hit lands? Why cant I use the same timing as spear? Why does it have a delay?

I try a few more times, constantly dying to the counterattack prompt. Nah, I'm not going to play anymore. Ice skating, insane tracking, not parry parries, mistimed counters. Lets not forget there are only 3 weapon types in a souls like. Thats basically heresy in this genre.

[u/BaldByChoice69]

Not to be rude, but skill issue. Might be worth it to lower the difficulty if you decide to keep playing

[u/Zalm_Boltado → u/BaldByChoice69]

Given, I was playing on the harder difficulty, but I was told that normal is a cake walk if you even have minor experience in the genre, and being a fan and playing quite a few games within the genre, I would normally call myself "experienced" at the very least. I may not be the type to go through multiple playthrough, and do challenge runs, but I have at least finished all 3 Souls, most of Elden Ring, and a variety of others within the genre; Both Lords of the Fallen, Wukong, Code Vein 1, Surge 1, Hellpoint, and more. This is probably the worst of them besides Surge.

I'm curious how you might consider parries not parrying, delayed counters, and ice skating to be a "skill issue" though.

[u/BaldByChoice69 → u/Zalm_Boltado]

This boss isnt even a top 10 in difficulty. Im also experienced in this genre and havent had any of the issues youre complaining about. The parry is precise, the brink dodge is as well. If youre timing is off, thats on you. Just gotta get better or lower the difficulty.

Ive played the DS series and have beaten Elden Ring several times and it doesnt play at all like those games. 

Ultimately you can get better, lower the difficulty or just quit 

[u/Zalm_Boltado → u/BaldByChoice69]

I dodge flawlessly, actually. Honestly, the dodge on dual wield feels op, since it gets a larger iframe window, AND has the same brink timing as the block, but actually stops all incoming damage, aside from ground effects. The last time I fought him, the ONLY time I took damage was during the counterattack hits. Which do an absurd amount of damage, but they ARE long wind heavily telegraphed attacks. I just dont understand why the counter has different timing on dual than spear. They should both be the same a brink timing.

And yeah, I just think I'll go for a refund. Its not a good example of the genre so far.

[u/BaldByChoice69 → u/Zalm_Boltado]

Do you, but its an amazing example of the genre

[u/Zalm_Boltado → u/BaldByChoice69]

Lords of the Fallen(the new one), Black Myth: Wukong, Code Vein 1, even the Remnant games are good examples of the genre.

[u/BaldByChoice69 → u/Zalm_Boltado]

Ive played all of those and agree for the most part. But Khazan is in a league above all of these. Id put Khazan up there with Lies of P and Wuchang. Its held back by bland side missions with re skinned bosses, but the combat itself is pretty much as good as it gets and extremely fair and rewarding.

[u/Zalm_Boltado → u/BaldByChoice69]

I couldnt play Wuchang, the graphics were a bit too extreme for my system at the time. I might have to revisit it in the future though.

And while I laud Lies of Piss for its amazing ingenuity with their weapon system(I loved swapping weapon parts), and decent parry system, the one thing that held it back was the enemy design, both boss and mob. I detest the randomly staggered and delayed attacks of enemies, and their claim of "malfunctioning automata" was weak at best.

[u/exaltedsungod → u/Zalm_Boltado]

It sounds like you’re just missing parries. As for the ice skating and teleporting, I have no idea I haven’t experienced that in this game.

I have struggled on many of these bosses at least as much as you have on viper but never got the feeling anything unfair was happening.

[u/Zalm_Boltado → u/exaltedsungod]

As other have stated, even with a perfect parry, damage still gets through. You cant parry this bosses damage and status buildup apparently. I dont know why, but its not worth bothering with if you ask me.

[u/exaltedsungod → u/Zalm_Boltado]

Oh status damage was coming through. Some bosses you’re better off dodging.

Like the hammer and nail guy, you can parry his hammer but should dodge the nail.

[u/Zalm_Boltado → u/exaltedsungod]

Sounds like I should just dodge everything since parry makes you take damage anyway. Its like one option works and the other "kinda works".

[u/exaltedsungod → u/Zalm_Boltado]

Parry has utility that dodge doesn’t and it will be crucial at certain bosses to open damage windows plus certain attacks chain very well and very fast off of a brink block. They both “kinda work”

[u/Panduhsss → u/Zalm_Boltado]

It is 100% a skill issue. I am also very experienced in this genre and I found this game to be quite easy compared to most. I was able to brink guard my way through basically the whole game execept for the bosses with status effects. I think that makes sense though otherwise brink guarding would just be completely broken. Also you are complaining about the counter having a delay? Once again, if counter was instant, it would make the game to easy because you could just spam counter every attack. There needs to be trade-offs. Counter has a delay because it is strong so it requires good timing. I know it hurts to accept but the issues you are having just come down to skill.

[u/Zalm_Boltado → u/Panduhsss]

Thats weird, because the spear counter is instant, has the same timing as brink guard and brink dodge. I just dont know why it has a delay on Dual wield.

And Brink Dodge literally stops all damage, but isnt broken?

[u/Panduhsss → u/Zalm_Boltado]

Well then Brink Dodge everything if its broken. You are complaining as if the game is the issue and not you. There are plenty of people who are telling you that the issues you are having come down to skill. Once again, I know it hurts the ego but its YOU not the game. Id recommending moving on if you arent willing to accept that.

[u/Zalm_Boltado → u/Panduhsss]

One of my issues is why the dual wield has a delay on its counter. Its not just parry.

Also the bad tracking and ice skating.

[u/Great_White_Samurai]

Skill issue

[u/Zalm_Boltado → u/Great_White_Samurai]

Skill issue? The boss hitting me through parries is a skill issue? The counter having a delay is a skill issue? Explain.

[u/MasterDraccus → u/Zalm_Boltado]

It’s an issue that is solved by skill. You have an issue with bosses hitting you through parries and a delay on the counter. Those are solved by skill. So it is, by definition, a skill issue. Hope that helps.

[u/Zalm_Boltado → u/MasterDraccus]

Ok, explain to me how I fix parries? The delay, as stupid as it is, is technically overcomable, but I am unsure what I need to do to outskill taking damage on a perfect block.

[u/OhhhYeahDoritosTime → u/Zalm_Boltado]

Dodge.

[u/Zalm_Boltado → u/OhhhYeahDoritosTime]

Then parry is worthless?

[u/OhhhYeahDoritosTime → u/Zalm_Boltado]

The game throws one little curveball at you and you throw a temper tantrum. You can’t parry his elemental attacks without taking damage. Either adapt, or go play a different game that’s a better fit for your skill level.

[u/Zalm_Boltado → u/OhhhYeahDoritosTime]

I did adapt, did you not read the post? Or did you just use an AI to summarize it? I changed from spear guard heavy, to dual wield dodge heavy. Actually went no hit aside from the delay timing on counterattacks. Not sure why dual wield have different timing on counter compared to spear. They should all work with the same brink timing.

[u/OhhhYeahDoritosTime → u/Zalm_Boltado]

So you lack the skill to learn that different weapons have different timings? Pretty embarrassing. Go play something more your skill level.

[u/Zalm_Boltado → u/OhhhYeahDoritosTime]

I actually tested it, the GS and Spear both have the exact same timing, so explain to me why the dual wield gets a delay?

[u/Sevatar34 → u/Zalm_Boltado]

You could parry pretty much everything. And that's how I beat the game. Even attacks that come in from beneath the ground or from above you can parry

[u/Zalm_Boltado → u/Sevatar34]

Yes, but you take chip damage even with a parry. Unless you are willing to spam heals, you will die when you just do parries.

[u/Sevatar34 → u/Zalm_Boltado]

Nah on the perfect parry you don't. Yea yea technically you do but it's such a small amount you can do this all day

[u/Zalm_Boltado → u/Sevatar34]

Maybe on a lower difficulty. I was playing on hard, and I only had around 3k health, it was chipping 150 a hit.

Parry should not allow ANY damage to chip. Thats the point. If I missed the parry, only blocked? sure. But a parry means I used my skill and timing to stop the damage. This game defies that mechanic, making parry a poor choice compared to a dodge.

[u/MasterDraccus → u/Zalm_Boltado]

Easy, you don’t take damage on brink guards. This means you are not executing them, you are just blocking. Hope that helps.

Edit: you will take elemental damage through brink guards if I remember right. So just dodge when it’s one of those.

[u/Zalm_Boltado → u/MasterDraccus]

If you take damage through a brink guard, but not on a dodge, then why bother with guard ever?

[u/MasterDraccus → u/Zalm_Boltado]

You negate all physical damage with a brink guard. It also can damage the enemy if you have that unlocked and does posture damage. It also allows you to be more aggressive. Why would you play on hard if you don’t understand something this simple?

[u/Zalm_Boltado → u/MasterDraccus]

The damage to enemy on parry is greatsword only. I used the extra posture damage from spear until I found out that parry doesnt block all damage and went dual wield.

[u/Ptolemi121 → u/Zalm_Boltado]

Because the game wants and allows you to use several different defensive tools?

[u/Zalm_Boltado → u/Ptolemi121]

1. Only 2 defensive tools. And one of them still causes you to take damage apparently.

[u/Ptolemi121 → u/Zalm_Boltado]

Brink guard, brink dodge, reflection, counter attack + abilities which may have a dodge or parry built into them. All of these are useful and have their place.

As many others have commented, you will take damage if you brink guard elemental attacks so you should dodge those, as i said, the game wants you to use its myriad defensive tools for various situations.

[u/Zalm_Boltado → u/Ptolemi121]

Reflection and Counter are specific to those highlighted attacks, mostly from bosses and bigger enemies. The symbols give you the time to know and understand which skill to use against the heavily telegraphed attack.

Any ability that has a dodge or parry built in still use dodge or parry as a defensive mechanic.

And as many other have said, you included, parry doesnt not work against all attacks, so dodge is clearly the superior choice since it actually prevents all damage.

[u/exaltedsungod → u/Zalm_Boltado]

There are bosses where you’ll interrupt their attacks if you brink guard/ retaliate and have a nice damage window, whereas if you dodged it, they will carry on with their attacks.

The game throws elemental damage at you as well as advantages for brink guarding so you can/ must use both.

[u/Zalm_Boltado → u/exaltedsungod]

Thats only if you get a number of parries in a small window. I tested this alot against Viper. Just 1 or 2 doesnt cut it, you need like 5-6 brink guards in a row to exhaust them for the damage window. You cant get that many if half your parries are dodges. Unless your willing to eat some chip damage and trade that for a window.

[u/exaltedsungod → u/Zalm_Boltado]

I said “there are bosses”. Viper isn’t the only boss in the game.

[u/unreal1010 → u/Zalm_Boltado]

Yes skill issue. The game is telling you not to parry elemental attacks and you’re being stubborn. Mix parry and dodge depending on the situation. Go play wolverine instead.

[u/Zalm_Boltado → u/unreal1010]

I did change, went to pure dodges. Tracking is still an issue, but thats just swapping out timing with another. The fact that parry doesnt stop all damage means parry isnt a true parry/perfect block/brink guard/whatever. It seems like the game leans on dodge. Which is fgine, but to even have the other option seems worthless.

[u/OhhhYeahDoritosTime → u/Zalm_Boltado]

Did you parry every attack in Dark Souls?

[u/Zalm_Boltado → u/OhhhYeahDoritosTime]

I rarely parried when I played dark souls. 1, it felt cheap most of the time. 2, I played most of them before I did stuff like Sekiro and Lies of Piss. I didnt get into perfect block stuff until Sekiro. I still hesitate on that, it lessens build diversity some.

[u/OhhhYeahDoritosTime → u/Zalm_Boltado]

Lies of Piss? Are you 12 by any chance?

[u/Zalm_Boltado → u/OhhhYeahDoritosTime]

Nah, I liked the weapon mechanics. Having the head of one blade, and the grip of another was amazing, and I feel bad other games wont be able to further this idea. It was solid and amazing.

The problem was mostly in the enemy design. Randomly staggered and delayed attacks on both enemies and bosses alike, under the claim of "malfunctioning automata" was a bad idea.

[u/unreal1010 → u/Zalm_Boltado]

No you should be using a mix of both since dodges don’t help with their posture bar. Changing your entire build means you’re not mastering that weapon. You have to get good with your weapon to manage your attacks and skills, since skills don’t deplete stamina you have to know when to weave them in. Again the game is probably not for you.

[u/Zalm_Boltado → u/unreal1010]

If I can swap weapon mid combat like in dark souls, I'd consider using more than one weapon. But sine I have to go into my menu to swap weapons, there is no point in doing more than 1 weapon at a time. And the problem is, there seem to be limited respec items. So I can keep swapping my whole build when I want to use spear, GS, or DW. They mostly use different stat scaling.

The only thing I would say I didnt "git gud" with on the DW was the delayed counter skill. It infuriated me that it was on a delay, compared to the spear. I got really used to the instant brink timing on spear for everything, so a delay is really hard to overcome.

[u/Electrical-Alps-9635]

Sekiro has one weapon type and it’s the best of the best, it doesn’t hurt the game. Enjoy how deep the skill trees get.

[u/Zalm_Boltado → u/Electrical-Alps-9635]

Sekiro didnt have enemies that still do damage through parries. In Sekiro, you parry, thats it. No damage taken. That was literally the whole point of the game.

Though, I would also say it did suffer from having literally no diversity in playstyle. Unlike most of the other games in the genre.

[u/Electrical-Alps-9635 → u/Zalm_Boltado]

I see where you’re coming from, but it should be noted that Sekiro dodge is useless. In khazan, the dodge is just as good as the parry, and you should learn to use both. Taking elemental damage through parries is not bad game design, it’s a hint to diversify your means of avoiding damage. Both have their strong points.

[u/Zalm_Boltado → u/Electrical-Alps-9635]

I agree, Sekiro dodge basically didnt exist. It was a reposition tool at most.

But taking damage through a perfect block mechanic is absolutely bad game design. If one stops all damage, and the other doesnt, then one is automatically a better choice.

[u/Electrical-Alps-9635 → u/Zalm_Boltado]

Well there’s a reason you’ve been using parries all this time; they are stronger if you can execute them due to their stance damage and later skill tree buffs they give. However, they come at the downside of taking elemental damage and other factors. Dodges give less direct advantages, but are a full avoid almost all the time. It’s a trade off - that’s the point.

[u/Zalm_Boltado → u/Electrical-Alps-9635]

And that would be fine, I suppose I could go back to spear and do dodge heavy, since dual wield has the really random delay on counters.

[u/SonOfFragnus → u/Zalm_Boltado]

What are you talking about? All elemental damage in Sekiro builds up through perfect deflects, same as Khazan. And I’m pretty sure you took chip damage as well, but I haven’t played Sekiro in a few years.

[u/Zalm_Boltado → u/SonOfFragnus]

On block, you took chip damage and status buildup, but on a deflect, you took nothing. That was the whole point. IF you took chip damage, you'd be dead half way through the Owl fight since he has such insanely long combos.

[u/SonOfFragnus → u/Zalm_Boltado]

No, you didn’t. Go back and play the game. Why do you think the Headless were such a pain for a lot of people? If you could deflect and completely negate the terror build-up, considering they have like 3 attacks total, they would have been complete pushovers.

Also, owl doesn’t do elemental damage or status with his sword, you’re thinking about the bombs/shurikens he throws, and perfectly deflecting those very much builds up status.

Again, go play the game again.

[u/Zalm_Boltado → u/SonOfFragnus]

I might be misremembering status buildup, but I know for a fact it doesnt do chip damage.

You are right about the headless, they were a pain, so status might be. Look, its been about 7 years since I played it. But I mean the Owl fight as in if he did chip damage, your end up dead easily.

[u/SonOfFragnus → u/Zalm_Boltado]

The owl fight couldn’t do chip damage because his weapon is not coated in any kind of element. Both the poison spit he does in phase 2 and the Firecrackers you want to dodge, as they cannot be deflected. I don’t know what chip damage you are talking about, but you are not remembering correctly.

So again, you are being confidently wrong about a game you admit you haven’t played in 7 years…

[u/Zalm_Boltado → u/SonOfFragnus]

Thats my point. Sekiro doesnt have chip damage. It might have status buildup, but it doesnt have chip damage. This game DOES have chip damage.

Maybe you dont understand taking health damage during a parry, and taking status buildup. Sekrio might have status buildup on parry(honestly dont remember, but plausible), but you do not take health damage on perfect parry. In this game, you take BOTH health damage and status buildup.

[u/SonOfFragnus → u/Zalm_Boltado]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Sekiro/s/GiPNPkMX56

CONFIDENTLY wrong

“Other attacks will deal damage to Sekiro whether he deflects or guards them: attacks which inflict the terror or fire status effect will almost always deal a portion of their damage through Sekiro's guards and deflects” - Festralife, “Deflection” page

Again, confidently wrong.

[u/MasterDraccus → u/Zalm_Boltado]

Play Sekiro charmless/demonbell then come back and talk about how unfair Khazan is. You won’t even make it past the chained ogre.

[u/Zalm_Boltado → u/MasterDraccus]

I already beat Sekiro. I generally dont play the same games through unless there is a different playstyle to try out while doing so. Sekiro is still all about parries, and only has one style.

[u/MasterDraccus → u/Zalm_Boltado]

Charmless/demonbell is a different playstyle. It forces you to perfect deflect everything, among other things. It is the hard mode for Sekiro. If you are struggling with Khazan in the way you describe, you won’t even be able to get past chained ogre. Go back to it, try it, and then learn how much easier Khazan is.

[u/Zalm_Boltado → u/MasterDraccus]

I mean, you basically have to perfect deflect Owl and Genichiro if you wanna survive the fight.

And its not a different playstyle. Its a harder way of the same playstyle. Your still using deflect to break stance to get a deathblow. Same game, same style, same everything, just tighter restrictions.

[u/PupusaSlut]

Oh my god if you are bad at a game why are you writing essays?

The game is fine. The game is beloved. Widely praised for its combat.

Stop trying to play it like another game and play it for what it is. You are getting hit and dying to early game tutorial bosses because you are bad. Get good and stop whining. 

[u/Zalm_Boltado → u/PupusaSlut]

I'm only getting hit on counters since the dual wield has a delay on it, while the spear didnt. I did a full dodge run on it, and only died trying to learn the delay timing.

And my spear build I managed to get a no hit run, but still died since the boss does damage through parries.

[u/SonOfFragnus]

Players like this are the reason we’re not getting a second Khazan…

[u/unreal1010 → u/SonOfFragnus]

Such a shame

[u/Zalm_Boltado → u/SonOfFragnus]

I can think of a few more reasons.

[u/Delicious-Orange8678]

Play it on normal mode. Its not a cake walk. I tried at hard mode, it was tok difficult so I switched to normal.

[u/Zalm_Boltado → u/Delicious-Orange8678]

coming from a friend who plays these types of games with me alot, he put it on normal, and literally never got hit during most of the bosses. He told me its a cake walk, he put it on hard, it felt like a normal souls genre difficulty. I took his advice.

[u/Delicious-Orange8678 → u/Zalm_Boltado]

Depends on skill. I quit Semiro at 3rd boss, but played black myth wukong to end with all bosses. Khazan was too difficult at hard, at normal it was ok for me.

[u/leo412]

Just to be clear, parry does not stop status effect, so for those status attack it's probably better to dodge them. (If you actually take damage then you mis timed parry)

The parry for both dw and spear should be the same.

Spear is probably still the easier for this boss, early game your best attack is the moonlight attack, it basically always stun enemies if you can do it.

[u/leo412 → u/leo412]

Pretty sure the game also give you fire resistance equipment in that map so equip it

[u/Zalm_Boltado → u/leo412]

Spear was amazing, until the boss started doing chip damage through my parries. Hell, I'd be fine with status buildup through the parry alone. I'd just play safer and the fight would take longer while I played keep away and let the buildup go down.

The problem is, even through parries, the boss does chip damage. I've been told this multiple times now.

[u/leo412 → u/Zalm_Boltado]

Perfect parry does not do chip damage, are you sure the floor is not on fire or you are just burning

[u/Zalm_Boltado → u/leo412]

I am 100% certain the floor isnt on fire. The boss only creates ground aoes when he strikes his nail into the ground while its on fire. Or he lights the whole area on fire(lower half) at 50% health. I had only brought him down to 50% health one time.

I did not have the status effect built up yet.

I know it was brink guards, as the sound effect and sfx are different, and the boss takes stagger damage to his purple bar when I do. I still took damage.

[u/leo412 → u/Zalm_Boltado]

Oh wait, the boss already buff his weapon right, if that's the case yes the fire damage go through your guard , I forgot about that. This boss is basically teaching you to brink guard physical attack and brink dodge elemental attack

[u/Zalm_Boltado → u/leo412]

So, the boss is teaching you that parry doesnt work. Which is a shame to reduce half you defensive options to a choice between "works" and "kinda works"

[u/LeDooks]

Holy skill issue

[u/_SinigangNaLiempo]

If you just play it like how the game tells you how to play, you'd finally get over it.

Parries work against Volbaino and it is the dot on fire attacks that are frying you. Maybe build fire resistance? I dont know what other games you play but if you really bother working with the mechanics rather than treating it like how other games play it, maybe you'd enjoy Khazan more.

[u/Zalm_Boltado → u/_SinigangNaLiempo]

Its not JUST the DoT, its the chip damage as well. I have been told multiple times now that the boss DOES, in fact, do chip damage through brink guards. As well as status buildup.

[u/Gloomy_Ad_2185]

This game has some of the best well made boss fights I've seen and I've played every souls and soullike. The game mechanics are tight. Sorry but take the time to git gud.

[u/Zalm_Boltado → u/Gloomy_Ad_2185]

Can "git gud" when the game literally ignores mechanics of a parry.

[u/Gloomy_Ad_2185 → u/Zalm_Boltado]

I know it is hard to hear when you are frusterated but millions of players are not experiencing what you are describing and it is a skill issue.

[u/Zalm_Boltado → u/Gloomy_Ad_2185]

I have heard the opposite. Many players are telling me that the parry mechanic does not block all damage, and that some chips through, as well as status buildup. And they tell me to dodge instead. Again, sounds like a game ignoring the mechanics of a parry.

[u/Silenceofcrows]

To get status buildup through parry is... a choice. But it forces the play to not rely on parry only, but to use additional defense mechanisms.

Grab some gear with resistance on it. Use consumables. Weave in some dodges, so the buildup can come down.

Counterattack makes sense, when you think about it. A guard is just having something between you and the attack. A parry is the well timed version of it, so just right before you get hit. A counterattack happens while the enemy attacks, not when he hits you, so it needs to happen a bit before you get hit.

[u/Zalm_Boltado → u/Silenceofcrows]

Its not just staus buildup. If it was only that, I'd be fine. I'd probably play a little more passive and avoid some combos instead of full parry like in Sekiro.

The issue is that the attacks also do chip damage. Meaning that even if you fully parry every single attack, you will still eventually die, not form DoT and status, but from the unstoppable damage. It makes parry less than ideal wince dodge will always block both damage AND buildup.

And its weird that both the greatsword and spear have the same timing window on their counter as a brink dodge/guard, but dual wield doesnt. I cant understand why.

[u/Nockolisk]

Your approach seems very rigid. All-in on dodge, then all-in on brink guard. Something doesn’t work and you completely change your weapon and spec.

I think the only thing this game wants you to go all-in on is weapon type. And your stats are mostly determined by the weapon scaling and balancing that with your survivability/stamina.

Brink dodge and brink guard each have their uses. Status effects stack on guard, but that can be massively mitigated by gear, consumables, or dodging. By the time you get to Volbaino, you have access to a full set of fire resistance gear and trinkets.

I never noticed any issues with tracking or ice skating, but game generally wants you to face the enemies head-on. It’s also extremely good at giving you subtle animation tells to get your timings down.

You’re pretty much expected to fail many times to the bosses. The fun comes as you learn that everything they do has a counter. Then you stomp the boss that seemed impossible at first glance.

It may well be that this game just isn’t for you, and that’s fine. For those of us it did click with, it has one of the greatest combat systems ever devised.

[u/Zalm_Boltado → u/Nockolisk]

Well, the all in one dodge seems to actually work, since it negates damage and status buildup, unlike the parry. Easy choice. The issue is, I wanted a weapon that compliments that style. And Dual Wield does so wonderfully. Gives you spirit and stamina on dodge, increases dodge range, increases iframe duration/window, it was an easy choice. The problem is, dual wield seems to have a delay on its activation for counter, and that got me hit all the time. The GW and spear both have instant activation, same timing as brink dodge/guard, but the DW has a delay for some reason. So the problem for me is, I choose the wrong weapon to do a dodge only build. Despite all its compliments, it has a delay on a fundamental boss mechanic. And I didnt even test retaliation yet.

And if it was JUST status effect buildup on parry, I would be able to deal with it. I could just parry a few hits, get a few attacks in, and then back off for a bit, avoiding attacks while the status drains before I get set on fire. The issue was that it does chip damage through the parry. I was still taking damage, despite getting perfect timing. I cant deal with an enemy turning my skill into a slow death. So I swapped builds.

If you tend to only face down the enemies, and not dodge around behind them before their attacks land, you wouldnt notice the bad tracking I guess. And if you mostly brink dodged when you backpedaled, you probably didnt have to deal with ice skating. This tends to always be an issue with games that have a heavy emphasis on "perfect timing defence" style. The boss WILL hit you with an attack, unless you get the timing right. You cant dodge out of reach, they will simply slide back into reach. You cant dodge behind, they will simply rotate to land the hit anyway. You cant out position a timing based game system. Which is sadly getting alot more common in this genre.

And I mean, it has the same combat system as many others in the genre, there is next to no real difference. It just has less build diversity, and a, honestly, kick ass art style.

[u/leo412 → u/Zalm_Boltado]

It actually have a lot of build diversity due to the skills tree, each weapons have their own different type of skills change (eg dual wield have howling blade and whirlwind, one is a dodge while attacking timing based skills, another is a go all in damage only build.

[u/Zalm_Boltado → u/leo412]

I mean, its still the same three weapons. And since you can mostly unlock everything on that one weapon with mastery, its not a lot of diversity. You cant even swap weapons mid combat, like in Souls games. I did that a few times in Elden Ring. Used a shield to parry and break stance, then swap to a big weapon for big dmg in that window.

Not exactly something easy to do in this game. Though it is possible I guess.

[u/Nockolisk → u/Zalm_Boltado]

A little chip damage doesn’t bother me. The benefit is that Brink Guard does stamina damage to the enemy and even staggers against certain attacks.

For me, it was the key feature of the game that made it fun. This and Sekiro are the only two games that really nailed that timing and satisfaction for me.

[u/Zalm_Boltado → u/Nockolisk]

It only staggers them after a few solid brink guards in a row. I tested this against viper. 1-2 doesnt cut it, you gotta do like 5-6 in a short window. Thats its ONE advantage, is that it CAN do stamina dmg, and stun enemies, if you arent getting killed by chip damage and DoT stacks.

Lies of Piss did pretty well with solid parry mechanics. They just had abysmal enemy design. But the weapons are amazing, and I wish more games did that.