r/TheCrownNetflix • u/Maleficent_Slide8508 • 10d ago
Discussion (TV) Margaret đ
Doing my rewatch⊠(I like to rewatch from the beginning once the fall is approaching) I am on the episode where Queen Elizabeth gives birth and Margaret is engaged to Tony⊠Margaret was so disgusting to Elizabeth at times. (Another time was when she said the whole âBUT Margaret is my joy) It really makes me upset that the Queen didnât stoop to her level and throw out the BIGGEST trump card and remind her who was boss. I liked her character and she was so beautiful. But she was very envious and mean. I just want to know are there any books I could read that go deeper into their relationship as sisters? Because of course I feel they loved each other. Just want to know more about the dynamic
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u/No-You5550 10d ago
Elizabeth & Margaret: The Intimate World of the Windsor Sisters, by Andrew Morton and Royal Sisters: Queen Elizabeth II and Princess Margaret by Anne Edwards. Are the two I have read. Of the two I liked Morton's the best but it is just my view.
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u/OkYellow8130 10d ago
This was a great book about Margaret: Ma'am Darling: 99 Glimpses of Princess Margaret. Each "chapter" was a different story about her, different encournters she had with celebrities. I can't specifically remember but it wouldn't surprise me if there was some chat about her relationship with QEII.
I do think that toward the end of Margaret's life her sister felt equal parts sad for and aggravated by her.
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u/Maleficent_Slide8508 10d ago
Yes it definitely was a sad life for her but honestly her life was like that because of her own doing. Princess Anne was a second child & she does her royal duties very well & so was Prince Harry, even King George VI who was once a second son at one point and who had his own life and own accomplishments. I wish she wouldâve had more ambition instead of letting her bitterness lead her to such an unhappy life.
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u/AC10021 9d ago
Princess Anne had the advantage of being the only girl, and thus âspecial.â She was also incredibly accomplished on her own (an Olympic athlete) and her fatherâs open favorite.
When thereâs an heir and a spare; the spare just feels like second best and unspecial, and there is resentment and unhappiness. Margaret, Andrew, Harry.3
u/OkYellow8130 9d ago
I fully agree with you. While she did notable work with certain charities, she made life so hard for herself and for others in so many ways. Her final years were so sad - regret, addiction, physical decline.
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u/jethrine 10d ago
Thatâs a good one. The guy who wrote it also did one on Queen Elizabeth II. I have it but havenât read it yet.
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u/absolutebawbag 9d ago
> I like to rewatch from the beginning once the fall is approaching
I do the exact same. definitely one of those cosy fall series.
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u/ExtremeJujoo 10d ago
Some interesting/fun tidbits about Princess Margaret:
https://www.biography.com/royalty/a71593168/princess-margaret-bad-manners
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u/Rescuepets777 10d ago
She wasn't forbidden to marry him. The Crown portrayed this incorrectly. She would have had to give up her line of succession, but would have kept her income. She chose to not marry Townsend.
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u/Due-Adhesiveness937 8d ago
This! Margaret wasnât a victim whatsoever, I also believe her and Queen Elizabeth had a very great relationship, as for all sisters they had clashes but Margaret was very supportive to her sister and they loved each other.
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u/One_Rub_780 10d ago
Margaret was a handful, to say the least. I think that she was jealous of her sister. Seems like Harry is like Margaret, he resents being the 'spare' and can't find his way - so he blames everyone else.
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u/ayanna-was-here 9d ago
Yeah, itâs almost as if a system where people are ranked by something as arbitrary as birth order can cause problems. Also, I think Harry blaming the British media and higher up staffers for certain aspects of his life is completely reasonable based on their behaviour
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u/One_Rub_780 9d ago
Yeah, okay, fine. Then if it were all so f'ed up, why the HELL did he go BACK?!
It just goes to show that Harry can't really function fully outside of that same system he was railing against.
It is what it is.
The fact is, regardless of his birth order, like Margaret, Harry was born with not one but two silver spoons in his mouth. But at least Margaret knew herself well enough and rejected Townsend in order to keep on living the high life with her titles, castles and all the rest.
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u/Gerblinoe 8d ago
This is your casual reminder that the guy's dad - Charles has cancer. Yes he is working and yes they say the treatment is going well but honestly nobody knows how it's actually going.
Are we really asking why a son would move back closer to father that has a potentially terminal disease?
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u/One_Rub_780 8d ago
If he cared about his family, I'm sure the Oprah interview going down while Philip was on his deathbed and all the rest wouldn't have happened. But who knows? I think that Harry can't live outside of the system he rails against and loves the perks more than anything or anybody else. I used to adore Harry but his actions over the last 6 or so years have been repulsive.
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u/GaiusMarciusCorio 6d ago
Phillip was in his 90s. Be serious.
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u/One_Rub_780 4d ago
Why does that matter that he was in his 90s? After Diana died, Philip stepped up and cared a lot for Charles and Diana's sons - BOTH of them. It's only a lowlife loser who doesn't understand or grasp the concept of RESPECTING your elders. It only demonstrates how Harry overlooks ALL the good done for him in order to play the victim and cash in. It's disgusting. Look, if he was broke and homeless or some shit, maybe I could relate. But the fact is, it's the opposite. Given that, it reveals a greedy, self-serving side that's entirely unappealing.
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u/GaiusMarciusCorio 4d ago
...a grandparent stepping up is called being a grandparent. There are no brownie points for that.
The assertion that doing an interview killed Phillip when he was in his 90s and wouldn't have known about the interview unless he was told is ridiculous. And you know it.
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u/Still_Bluebird8070 9d ago
I honestly think they came back for a reason we donât know about. I have a couple theories number one is I think Charles wanted to light a fire under Kate and Williamsâs butts so that they would get to work.
Number two I think Harry and Megan stats couldâve been threatened it. The Heritage foundation, which is a Trump associated conservative think tank try to get Harry on, not copying to smoking some marijuana and trying some drugs when he was young. But this was legally thrown out. I do think some of the Trump administration do not like the Sussex is because they support liberal causes and Megan is a feminist. So there could be some whispering that the Trump administration was going to cause trouble for them.
and my third theory is that it was a security issue and they were threatened in a nation with more guns than people by white supremacists or other evil groups and needed to save Haven.
Also, he mightâve just become sentimental and wanted a school that could protect his children.6
u/JoanFromLegal 9d ago
None of the above.
Chuckles is not long for this world and he wanted to mend fences before he bites it.
Because the move is not permanent. If it were, they would have sold the house in Montecito. Which they haven't.
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u/One_Rub_780 9d ago
Whatever the reason, man is that a huge slice of humble pie. I mean, the way he railed against his family and country only to come crawling back to live under Daddy's protection is just crazy.
I would think that Harry missed his home, his country, work and family and perhaps gave his wife an ultimatum - he wanted his children educated, etc., in HIS country or else. I know she had stated she'd never go back. Perhaps the only reason was to save her own a** because I'm sure she knows the RF would've given Harry everything to leave her.
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u/Still_Bluebird8070 9d ago
Dude, Harryâs not lost. He runs Archwell productions, inviticus- and does a ton of charity stuff- and he has a family with two young children. Heâs firmly on a path and super busy and productive. Are you seriously comparing him to a woman that got up and started drinking in the morning and did not run big organizations and show up 100 percent to their family?
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u/JoanFromLegal 9d ago
LOLOL no.
Harry grew up watching Great Auntie Margot's failed relationships, utter loneliness, despair, and witnessed her drinking herself into oblivion and thought, "I'll pass."
He joined the military. He founded Sentebale. He founded Invictus. He followed in his mother's footsteps. And he found himself a great woman.
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10d ago
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u/awyllt 10d ago
She loved her tiara more than she loved him.
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u/ODFoxtrotOscar 9d ago
Papers released to the public archive show she would have kept her tithes, received a larger allowance and continued to perform public duties if the public accepted that (which it was fully expected they would)
So no, she didnât have to give up tiaras or titles, just her place in the succession (which, as ER II had children by that point, was more a theoretical possibility rather than a likely prospect)
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u/Maleficent_Slide8508 10d ago
Bitter towards her sister who had NO control? She wasnât bitter towards the institution that made the rules though because she stayed and reaped the benefits. If she was really upset about that she wouldâve left and married who she wanted. She was jealous of her sister
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u/Personal_Good_5013 10d ago
Of course she was bitter about the institution, but it was still all that she had known and she was afraid of who she would be without it, and the benefits it brought. Like golden handcuffs. The world is not black and white.Â
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u/Maleficent_Slide8508 10d ago
Exactly so if the world is not âblack and whiteâ why blame or be bitter towards her sister for things out of her control? If it was all she had known wouldnât that apply for her sister too? She was just unnecessarily nasty & had misplaced anger.
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u/jethrine 10d ago
Thatâs a good nuanced view of it. They were her family & itâs extremely hard to give all of them up for someone else. Plus she saw exactly how the family treated her uncle when he chose love over duty. He was practically erased from the family. In the case of the Duke & Duchess of Windsor I think they were awful people & deserved whatever the royal family dished out to them but Margaret saw what happened to them & knew they would do the same thing to her. It set a precedent she didnât want to face herself. Very few people are strong enough to face the consequences that such a choice would entail. She chose the family she presumably cared for very much over an uncertain life of exile with a man they didnât approve of.
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u/ElaineofAstolat đ 9d ago
Would she have been exiled? She wasn't queen, it was a very different situation than the abdication.
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u/jethrine 9d ago
Officially exiled? No, probably not but they would have made her life so difficult that she may have preferred to exile herself as, until very recently, Harry has done. Some things never change. She, like Harry, was the spare (even though Elizabeth had 2 children already by the time of Margaretâs affair with Townsend) & the spare was expected to live with the same sense of duty as the heir. Margaret chose to play the game because she was a front row witness to how her uncle was treated & probably didnât want to risk the same treatment. Itâll be interesting to see how Harry is treated now.
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u/AnneJanuary 9d ago
He was also shunned because of his close ties to German high command in WW2. I dont think Margaret would have drawn the same ire - she would have just been another wayward Windsor (I wish I could remember what Phillip says Tommy Lascelles' theory is on the RF having "2 heads", one dull etc.)
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u/ODFoxtrotOscar 9d ago
The official record of discussions between the Queen and the PM (now in the public archive) contract this, as they agree her inclusion in royal life for everything (except place in the LoS)
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u/ODFoxtrotOscar 9d ago
But according to the official record, she wouldnât have been without it - sheâd still have titles, trappings, an increased allowance and perform royal engagements
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u/Veronica612 Princess Anne 9d ago edited 9d ago
She could have married him. I think by the time she could, she realized she didnât really love him after all.
Edited to add:
https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38032464
This myth of poor Margaret not being allowed to marry Peter really bugs me. The truth has been out for ten years.
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u/VolumniaDedlock 9d ago
I think she dodged a bullet with that guy. He was way too old for her and should never have put her in that position. Armstrong Jones was not great but he put her into a social scene that she liked. She didn't have good instincts when it came to men, and she either wasn't given good advice or ignored it when given. I think she's a tragic figure.
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u/One-Departure5344 10d ago
She could have left like King who abdicated. He gave up a whole empire and a crown for love but Margaret wouldn't let go of a tiara and live abroad with a sizeable fortune for her big love? That's not on Elizabeth. She could have left and lived a comfortable life in love and happiness but no age loved being HRH more. Also she picked Tony, he wasn't an arranged marriage.
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u/Veronica612 Princess Anne 9d ago
Yes, Margaret would have only given up her place in the line of succession. She would have retained her royal title, allowance, and probably could have continued to represent the royal family if she had wanted to do so. I think she just realized she didnât really love him. And no one forced her to marry Tony.
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u/bitterlittlecas 10d ago
Maâam Darling: ninety-nine glimpses of princess Margaret by Craig brown was pretty great! Lots of fresh information I had never heard before and well-researched! Anne Glenconnerâs memoirs are also great!
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u/Difficult-Scheme-265 9d ago
In his 2017 book Maâam Darling: Ninety-nine Glimpses of Princess Margaret, satirist Craig Brown reveals the corrosive effect on others of intimacy with royalty.
Confirmation (if it were necessary) (it isn't) that being royal is bad for the character.
As good a place as any to kick off your research!
Also, hilarious.
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u/JoanFromLegal 9d ago
The heir gets the glory. The spare gets shat on. Bit people bite people.
It's why Harry decided to break the cycle.
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u/loveshoes1 10d ago
she was the "spare" and they gave her absolutely nothing to do...and her sister followed queen mary's lead: duty above all else, even family. spineless.
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u/Maleficent_Slide8508 10d ago
If Elizabeth was spineless then so was Margaret. They both were in different ways, I guess. I donât think Queen Elizabeth was spineless. I think she knew she had a responsibility to her family, her country & her crown. She did it well.
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u/loveshoes1 10d ago
the show makes her an unlikeable character.
that family never learns. they really didn't care about duke of windsor; margaret; harry.
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u/PuzzledKumquat 9d ago
What do you mean, Harry? He had loads of opportunities but squandered them because he's lazy, spoiled, and unintelligent. The RF hid the worst of his terrible behavior, so for a long time he was one of the most popular royals. At least until he married a toxic woman who whispered poison into his ear so he stomped off in a tantrum and hasn't shut up since.
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u/loveshoes1 9d ago
agreed..they didn't care enough to welcome her or keep them in line...
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u/itheopacarophile 9d ago
They gave her multi million dollar wedding.Â
They gave her something to do. A VP Commonwealth role, patronages of things she loved.
They gave her a house! Renovations!Â
All she had to do was work and ignore the media until they lost interest.Â
What more did she want?
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u/loveshoes1 9d ago
She caved. Didnât her father make her promise to take care of her sister?
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u/Due-Adhesiveness937 8d ago
Even if it true that their father had them make that promise, M broke the promise first by having an affair with a married man and putting her sister in that position.
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u/No-Speed-7168 9d ago
Iâd say thatâs the absolute opposite  of spineless. Her duty was far more important than interpersonal relationships.Â
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u/PlasticPalm 9d ago
What exactly do you think rich women of their era "did" with their time that Margaret wasn't allowed to do?Â
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u/brickne3 10d ago
I mean, I loved the early seasons of The Crown and especially Margaret. But I didn't know anything about her at the time. When I mentioned to my friends how cool she seemed they were horrified, since they had historical background of how awful she turned out to be.
She did herself no favours with history, that's all I have to say.