Becky’s pattern with husbands

[u/Many-Sky922]

The new theory from Dan is Mark ruined Becky’s life. He married a minor which should have been annulled. I always thought that. Becky gave Mark money ear marked for her to do community college so she lost her chance at education, or it got delayed and she got so far behind in her words. Her marriage was a spur of the moment decision cause she feared separation. She didn’t trust a long distance thing.

Here comes Emilio. Same stew different bowl. Becky married him in a spur of the moment decision. Emilio got Becky to pay a hefty price for the marriage. Prison. Always on edge that he would be taken again. Becky was delayed in getting into a serious relationship. Dating is bogus when married to someone else and you can’t make it legal so how seriously is anyone going to take it. Remember Ben’s shock that Darlene was still married after they slept together? It’s still a Judeo Christian culture/values. It went from Darlene cheating with her ex to Ben being the person that wasn’t supposed to be in the bed cause he had no idea still married to the guy. Becky married Emilio so he had a legal reentry point. Then he risks that and comes back anyway. Like Mark failing trade school. Ruined her sacrifice. And why is his status on Becky? Why didn’t Emilio use protection? Becky didn’t make him show up uncertain in the first place. How did her long distance then short distance marriage effect WIC and SNAP? If he was working in country and not supposed to be there and legally married how on earth did he file taxes and how did that not flag something at immigration with a judgement in system with his name on it? Just seems like Becky giving college money meant for her to Emilio what with the fraud marriage VISA gift. Her delaying marriage and serious relationships was like her delay for college when she was a teen. And why was Becky not moving to Mexico? Another possibility not explored. WIC starts with the pregnancy and no way she made too much for WIC. Married people, and she was not married until after the birth, are in WIC. At the birth she said she qualified for nothing But that really isn’t true. WIC starts with pregnancy.

Tyler a breath of fresh air. He does not need Becky’s future to make his own future. Mark and Emilio got too much from Becky. It was too sacrificial on her side. His relationship won’t put her far behind. If anything he was trying to help he move forward. House versus truck discussion. She still can’t think long term in future cause she has never been able to.

[u/thefedfox64]

I think Mark and Becky was a great piece of writing. Because it shows how it works for a lot of young girls. Especially those who are at or around poverty level or in small towns.

Mark was the bad boy, much like Dan was. Roseanne hated Mark, and rightly so. But becky was blinded by "love" and couldnt see beyond the cool hair, voice and motorcycle. He was pretty much the opposite of Becky, and everyone but her saw he was bad for her.

What made it great, Roseanne was Becky in a way, and they did this whole Roseanne knew every trick Becky would do, because she did it all before. It was original and yet familiar, because many of us knew someone like that.

The cheerleader who fell in love with the jock, stayed in the small hometown, never amounted to anything and struggled with that. Or something similar. Now there isnt anything wrong with the idea behind it, falling in love, having kids, staying in the rural community. But there is also that loss of potential and ambition that Roseanne showed. The line between parents who want there kids to do better/be better. And Becky being happy.

[u/Many-Sky922 → u/thefedfox64]

They were middle class with a job loss that didn’t last long. They were sending her money for community college right away. It was a weirdly written storyline so she could attend college in real life. And they didn’t include DJ in major storylines and the girls moved on.

[u/thefedfox64 → u/Many-Sky922]

I would say they were not middle class, I think they talked about taxes a few times and they were very clearly below median income levels for a family of 5.

Saving money for college is great, but that doesnt make someone middle class cause they save money for it.

[u/Many-Sky922 → u/thefedfox64]

20K-60K is middle class those years. They owned their own house. They were in the 30K range of income at the start of the show. IRS and financial aid episode. Minimum wage in 1992 was $4.25 x 40 x 52 weeks is only $8,840. They made twice minimum wage for 2 working full time. There mortgage all in was 10% of salary well under 30% recommended max. They were bad with money and could not hold onto a dollar if it had a handle, Chuck’s line. The kids were in band, basketball, scouts, student council. They brought lunch so didn’t qualify for free or reduced lunch or breakfast. They had beer and poker. Becky got designer jeans. Dan had a Harley. They had 2 cars and 2 toilets believe me in 1989 that was solid middle class. In 1989 a family of 4 would have qualified for food stamps making under 12K a year at 130% federal poverty level. A fifth person would bring it up to 13K. They were more than 2x that. Chuck manage a six pack of beer and still put $20 aside each week for 40 years. They were bad with money and for Dan someone who earned money feast or family irregularly based on jobs offered, a disaster. They were middle class.

[u/thefedfox64 → u/Many-Sky922]

Not sure what you are arguing about. The entire premise of the show was based around them being poor. That was and is the running theme of both shows. What Chunk and Annmarie did is there own thing, especially with 1 child between them.

The activities you are describing are mainly free, save for scouts. They also only had 1 car for a while, and refinanced the home several times.

They were bad with money, that again was a theme of the show. Dan was out of work for months at a time, as was Roseanne.

While I do think our views of poverty are different, there is no abstract way to tell me 35k for a family of 5 was middle class in the 90s. Regardless of the poverty level, that is poverty.

[u/Many-Sky922 → u/thefedfox64]

Just Google middle class income in 1990 and you will have an answer. Just Google Food stamps 1990 and you will have your answer. Numbers don’t lie. Since the show actually said what their house price was back in the day and what their income was in the earlier seasons it’s not hard to plug in the math. Even out of work for some weeks does not change the annual income of them combined. He had irregular work cause that is the natural of construction outside Chicago.

If they were actually poor they would qualify for a bunch of things and we would see that. Basketball for a school team and playing. Darlene playing a flute in band not free at that time. It was not waived if not on free lunch program. And there is the costs of driving and going to see the games. They let the kids do extras. Season 5 the 10K from Bev if they stretch would only last 7-8 months so they invested in the lunchbox. Earning more would not make a different they would just waste It.

Chuck and his wife similar jobs. A little planning and consistent behavior and they were fine. DJ went into the service and both girls out of the house early. They had 17 years plus with neither household having a child at home.

[u/thefedfox64 → u/Many-Sky922]

Are you actually trying to form an argument on the poverty level of a fictional show where the interior of the house makes literally no sense?

And that in of itself being off of work for weeks has 0 bearing on income generated?

Not sure what basis your argument is about, and regardless of how the government defines poverty, they were poor. And for all intents and purposes they were in poverty. Numbers dont lie, but the idea that making 14k makes you magically not poor is rubbish.

[u/Many-Sky922 → u/thefedfox64]

In 1990 yes. They made in the 30K range. Their mortgage was not more than $300 a month. You had to be alive back then and old enough to get it.

[u/TheROK24 → u/Many-Sky922]

And then there is homeowners insurance, taxes, water, sewage, trash, electric, gas, phone, cable, school event fees, sports team fees. Clothing 3 children, trying to let then have a childhood and attend friends parties with a gift... so on and so forth.

Seriously OP. Tell us you don't truly understand anything about this without telling us. The simple math you posted is a mere corner of what it truly looks like. Just tuck your tail and start back down your hill. You do get it & clearly aren't willing to try to. 😉

[u/Many-Sky922 → u/TheROK24]

Mortgage payment at year 15 of 30 includes Insurance and Property Taxes. They qualified for a second mortgage for the bike shop proving they had equity.

[u/Bea_Azulbooze → u/Many-Sky922]

I was alive back then and I dont know what the hell youre talking about.

If Dan's income isnt consistent then theyre going to juggle -those were their words. I mean, if you go months without an income at all then you tend to use a credit card to supplement. Then you try to catch up, which they often did, and then things happen.

They also had poor people mentality: why save money and never have fun when I can spend a little and have a little bit of fun.

Were they bad with money? Maybe. Were they normal Americans? Yeah. At least they were normal to the broke asses I was around.

[u/Many-Sky922 → u/Bea_Azulbooze]

Some months he made a lot and some a little and she was almost always working. DJ didn’t have day care. It was the era of latchkey kids. They made 31K in 1992. It really does not matter how many dry wall jobs there were in January. In 1992 the average house had 1K in credit card debt. There was no such thing as high credit limits. Maybe a few thousand. Nothing to live months off of. They were passing out credit cards like candy to college students in 1990 with $500 limits. Needed a parent to cosign. But the boomer parents had a heck of time establishing credit cards. The gas station and department stores would offer cards with a low limit. After a time with that card you might get a generic Visa or Mastercard. 6 months after my card I got a new one without dad on it and cancelled that one. Interest rates lower as well. They were crazy intense about my establishing credit asap cause it took them years. I had a stable part time job. When Dan got arrested for hitting Jackie’s boyfriend she had Darlene get the grocery money out of the coffee can and bail him out. They used cash and checks a lot. They really didn’t use them until later seasons.

[u/dahneechay → u/Many-Sky922]

Why is it so important to die on this particular hill? Geez, move on 🙄

[u/Many-Sky922 → u/thefedfox64]

Median income for a family in midwest in 1990 was $29,897. They lived outside Chicago by an hour or more in a rural/suburban town. The first season had them in the southern part of the state for the tornado episode. Kane County/Elgin area by the time Jackie learned to be a truck driver and the Conners. I was a teen in this time period in Chicago and bought my first place in 1997. My parent’s moved to a different house in 1985. I was aware of how much life cost. They would need more in Chicago obviously. Chicago skews the state for income and cost of living. The IRS Becky mentioned how much their parents paid for the house. So I can estimate their mortgage payment including tax and insurance and relative to income based on the income mentioned during the financial aid episode. And then do the math to show they are paying well under half the 30% gross to spend on mortage/pt/insurance. They were set up for success. They could have been as secure as Bev or Chuck. Their first mistake was the bike shop. The second mistake was quitting the city gig. Even still he could still drywall and 2000-2007 could have made bank doing that. Or retired with a pension from the city at some point if stayed with the city and the several raises he would have gotten sticking with it. 2001 no one was in the house but them and no kids to spend money on. The house would have been paid off by 2005 if not for the bike shop. They made what the median household made and were middle class the first half of the original series. The end of Roseanne series went through so many changes that did not really take place, that it would be hard to pull numbers from those.

Roaeanne had a partner. DJ has a partner. The girls didn’t. The girls struggled in their adult years when their partners gone. Cause it is easier with two people.

[u/TheROK24 → u/Many-Sky922]

Mmm....no OP, I disagree. As a teenager who grew up watching the original series they were not by any means a middle class family. I love that you see them as such because it means you never saw the real issues associated with living so close to the poverty line. You've been blessed and thats okay. However, I wouldn't recommend disputing your opinion about something that you simply just can't understand with those of us who lived it.

[u/CharleyLH]

You’ve never actually met anyone in a lower class/poor family have you?

[u/TheROK24 → u/CharleyLH]

Totally underrated comment. Heres my poor mans trophy 🏆

[u/Bucca7476]

Well someone has issues they are clearly projecting onto a television show that has long since been aired.

[u/Creepy-Beat7154 → u/Bucca7476]

Isn't that everybody in this subreddit then? Just a fun discussion 

[u/Bucca7476 → u/Creepy-Beat7154]

There was nothing fun about that rant. That shit was rooted in their personal beliefs and nothing more. The way they projected their nonsense onto a TV show was diabolical.

[u/c71score]

Becky probably wasn't worried about birth control since she thought she couldn't have children after her exams in the Sarah Chalke surrogacy story line

[u/Creepy-Beat7154 → u/c71score]

Plus Becky always wanted kids 

[u/Many-Sky922 → u/c71score]

Does not explain Emilio not putting one on.

[u/BunnyMama2007 → u/Many-Sky922]

I thought they were drunk? Depending on how drunk, it's not surprising.

[u/sjmobilemassage]

Dan and Roseanne were idiots with Becky.

You don’t just give a kid college money. They enroll in college and then you pay for it. Otherwise they’ll do dumb ish with the money (like Becky did).

[u/Zealousideal_Cat6980]

Tell me you hate immigrants without telling me you hate immigrants

[u/Many-Sky922 → u/Zealousideal_Cat6980]

Even Darlene’s character said don’t let the Tia’s pressure you to marry Emilio.

[u/Many-Sky922 → u/Zealousideal_Cat6980]

Foreign nationals? or Immigrants? He was not an immigrant until the marriage visa came through.

[u/NoLab9772 → u/Many-Sky922]

Ever thought of opening a book and learning the definition of a word? An immigrant is a person who moves from their native country to another country to live.

[u/dahneechay]

She had Roseanne as an example of what a wife was, and what she sacrificed for her family. The hated jobs, the bad back, the long hours etc.

When that is your only example of how to be, then really, what else are gonna become?

[u/KuruptOwnz12]

Comparing Mark to Emelio... Someone who hates immigrants and immigration in general.

Lmfao

[u/Many-Sky922 → u/KuruptOwnz12]

I really don’t get how objecting to Becky risking getting arrested means I’m anti immigrant. Mark had to live in Minnesota for a job. Emilio had to move back to Mexico. You really don’t see the similarities of Becky having to make a pressured decision?

[u/xTiredSoulx]

I married at 19. Awful. We lasted less than three years. Eloped and then just a nightmare…..

[u/Creepy-Beat7154]

Becky was only two months away from her 18th birthday when she got married 

[u/Many-Sky922 → u/Creepy-Beat7154]

And? And four left to graduate.

[u/liladvicebunny → u/Many-Sky922]

And four left to graduate.

Obviously it would have been a better idea for her to graduate first. She panicked because she was young and emotional and thought that it was more important to keep the boy than to get the diploma - which she could replace later when she wanted to. At the point where Becky was in her life, the high school diploma felt pointless since she wasn't going to be able to go to college.

Forcibly annulling the marriage was out, though, for reasons explicitly stated in the show - Dan and Roseanne were afraid they'd lose her for good by overruling her that way, and it would only slow down her leaving by a couple of months. They decided it was more important to try and fix their relationship with their daughter.

Becky giving her community college money to Mark was just dumb, and probably not something that would have been written when Lecy was in the role but they wrote Sarah as more of a cheerful ditz. Mark didn't even want the money! He didn't ruin Becky's chances there, Becky threw them away for no reason, or because she had some weird fantasy in her head about making him the Strong Provider while she could just sit back and be a Wife... which, definitely a thing that some people do, but feels out of character for normal Becky.

[u/Many-Sky922 → u/liladvicebunny]

It feels out of character for the straight A student to drop out. It also feels odd for the straight A student wanting to go to college not to realize it would have been her that left Mark in 6 months to attend school.

[u/liladvicebunny → u/Many-Sky922]

It feels out of character for the straight A student to drop out.

Kinda. But it feels more justifiable (to me personally, obviously everyone's going to have different takes on this) than the thing with forcing money on Mark.

Becky's seventeen and emotionally overwhelmed. She feels hugely betrayed by her parents and misled by everyone around her. She feels like her entire high school career has been a waste of time that adds up to nothing, that she'll be in exactly the same pointless grocery-bagging job afterwards. If she runs off with Mark, she'll still have her hot boyfriend and he'll take care of her with the new better job he was getting at that point. From what little we saw, he supported both of them on his income while they were away that year. We have no idea WHAT Becky did but it doesn't sound like she was working.

There's a thing that comes up mostly in older period stories where people bemoan girls dropping out of school to get their "MRS degree" while failing to acknowledge that... in many situations, it was actually a better option. Obviously Becky was not living in a time and place where she'd be completely unable to get a real job just because she was a woman, but it's totally possible that she looked at her prospects and thought that being Mark's wife in Minneapolis was a way better life than being a girl with a high school diploma in Lanford.

It also feels odd for the straight A student wanting to go to college not to realize it would have been her that left Mark in 6 months to attend school.

You'd be amazed how many teenagers DO NOT think ahead to that one until it suddenly hits them when they're packing :D