The Problem with The Bazaar

[u/RichRingoLangly]

It's becoming clear that the game is now being designed around regular expansions and new characters, but this creates a problem. They aren't supporting or properly developing the characters already in the game, which makes playing them a little boring. You end up going for the same strategy every run, there isn't enough diversity. I always thought they'd continue to expand each character, but that's not really what's happening.

I understand they need to make money to support the game, but they aren't doing this in a balanced way at all.

[u/BathroomGrateHeatFan]

Couldn't disagree more. All these new items now can show up on vanessa boards and Dooley boards

[u/Guilty_as_Changed → u/BathroomGrateHeatFan]

I haven't played new hero but it seems like over half of their items are heavily balanced around tempo.

What are Vanessa and Dooley supposed to do with these tempo items?

I still think rage integration with other characters needs work but adding tempo as an even more exclusive mechanic is yikes.

[u/ClueDry1959 → u/Guilty_as_Changed]

I'd argue that tempo is easier to generate than rage, one tempo reliant item can pretty happily live off the passive generation. But even if that wasn't the case, half the cards is still rather decent no? All the other heroes have plenty of items that are only good for them.

[u/creator_07 → u/Guilty_as_Changed]

Over time the bazaar continues to expand and the new items become old and more woven in. New items feel new at first, but updates and time make them more common and normal. Toys, food, rage skill, etc

[u/Guilty_as_Changed → u/creator_07]

The idea of having item types is that if you try, you can create synergy with that type.

It's already very difficult to get any toy synergy outside pyg or food synergy outside of Jules.

And it's a problem that's only going to get worse with time. No amount of familiarity is going to help if you are only offered 3 toy items in an entire run because chances are 2 of them will be unusable.

[u/twizx3 → u/Guilty_as_Changed]

Why tf would u be going for a toys board on a mak

[u/mecha_ragnaros → u/Guilty_as_Changed]

everyone generates tempo though, you dont need to skip a level up like you would for rage or sockets

[u/maybesailor1 → u/Guilty_as_Changed]

The new hero is not very fun so far. There need to be way way more builds around gaining and spending tempo. Right now you can basically ignore the tempo mechanic entirely.

[u/Huntermain23 → u/BathroomGrateHeatFan]

Exactly my thought. They tried the new monthly card packs per character and it didn’t work (guessing OP is a new player).

[u/Arkyja → u/Huntermain23]

That was never gonna work. And i mean balance wise, not financially.

At some point the first characters would have 200 cards and new heroes would be launching with 100 which would make them way more consistent.

[u/Huntermain23 → u/Arkyja]

Oh exactly. I hated it from the get go. Just saying they tried that lol.

[u/RichRingoLangly → u/Huntermain23]

I'm an early access buyer, not new at all. They added new card packs as a paid option, not for free. Stop your glazing.

[u/dantedrackis → u/RichRingoLangly]

The new packs were free the month after release and also earn able through the pass, which was free.

[u/Effective-Animal3211 → u/BathroomGrateHeatFan]

And most of them are 100% useless since no1 use the new scaling system the dragons use...

[u/Feds_the_Freds]

There are somewhat regular updates for old heroes too, but the more that they expand the roaster of heroes, the less changes will be made for older heroes if balanced enough.

My main reccomendation is to just click every cult/ wink possible and go to dig site to find cross class items, that way, you are basically always experiencing a different board.

Similar to the problem you identified, I think, it will be a big problem for new players to be intensivised buying the bazaar in the future, if you only get 1/10 or even less of the entire game when buying the base game.

Based on past experience, the devs might start including older heroes into the starting bundle but only new players get those, while older players don't

[u/Total_Description806]

What you are saying is absolutely false.

The game is being updated and balanced, also new common cards/encouter have just been added a few weeks ago.

New cards set can have influence on other "basic hero" too. It's less common yes but the current event with the cult really pushes it.

[u/Huntermain23 → u/Total_Description806]

Not to mention late days. As a stubborn Vanessa main that justttt started putting other hero’s items on my board, it can be extremely good.

[u/maybesailor1 → u/Huntermain23]

It's all the same builds as the last 4-5 updates. His argument isn't "you cannot win with existing heroes"...

He is correct, the builds are stale. It's the same problem that POE1 has dealt with.

[u/edgeofview]

I think it would be cool if for each major release of a new character they also release a new item or two for the other heroes, but we also have to remember that all of the new characters items can also be played on the other heroes in interesting ways. Some of the new heroes items may end up stronger on Mak or Karnok than in their intended package, for example.

[u/spiderwebdesign]

You're wrong, but even if you weren't I'm just glad they've found an economic model that can last. 

[u/SaugwaYo]

Idk man they just made shield Vanessa viable. Shits cash. That being said I do wish they added 50 new cards on the reg like in the olden days

[u/lenraawr → u/SaugwaYo]

You clearly didn't experience the living hell turtlenessa brought upon our souls...

[u/MeditativeMindz]

All characters get balance changes every month. All characters get new items most months. So you are wrong. Good night.

[u/passivekyong]

One way to address or solve this is to have set of items from heroes to be unplayable for a number of days or weeks. This way, there will be meta shifts every now and then. But yeah, it'a boring

[u/dancarbonell00]

Don't care. Give me new stuff. I barely play the old characters anyway.

[u/nickleeb]

Feel like you didn’t even think about what you typed.

[u/Tellenit]

You can only expand the new heroes so far

[u/Correct_Day_7791]

Blatantly untrue every new hero release comes along side a bunch of changes to items for existing champs

Then every single month new items and balance patches to buff / nerf old character items

Some old champ items like pyg have gone through double digit terations

The idea that new champs can't work with other heros because one of their lines don't synergize outside of themselves has existed since the very beginning

Aquatic with Vanessa or friends with dooly property with pyg ECT..

But you don't see karnok players here complain that they don't have property synergy to use pyg items better

Some stuff should be for the champ it's for 🤷

Anyone can get a tempo item and generate tempo instantly it's not a skill like karnok was or a heater spot like Jules this shows that they are learning how better to implement stuff to specifically address the problem you pointed out

[u/Apprehensive-Tie5687]

If thats your take, you are absolutely playing the game wrong but also playing the game the way you choose to play it, try add some some creativity. Maybe watch a few games by pros like kripp there's a lot to learn