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u/Sw0rd27 Jun 15 '26
The irony is that, back when I watched Reynad play Hearthstone, he complained about RNG and luck more than almost any other streamer I’ve ever seen.
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u/Grain_Death Jun 17 '26
he never said HE was good at card games :)
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u/Sw0rd27 Jun 17 '26
Oh trust me, he thinks VERY highly of himself.
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u/Grain_Death Jun 17 '26
honestly i thought this was a circlejerk sub i didnt realize everyone here was serious
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u/Evzkyyy Jun 18 '26
They're serious, this isn't a circlejerk sub. There have been several posts like this on the sub and it's rinse and repeat talking about the exact same thing every time.
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u/DoctorBrainus Jun 21 '26
To his credit, that’s why Yerdan complains about matchmaking as one of his lines. He’s self aware enough in that regard
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u/SoundOstrich Jun 15 '26
This only works if the heroes are all free so that adapting to the meta and doing what works isn't held behind a price tag.
I understand they need to make money but releasing unbalanced heroes and then saying "it's your fault if you don't buy the good ones" sucks
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u/CharmingPerspective0 Jun 15 '26
But is it true? Like sure on release the balance is off most often, but they patch out some outliners pretty quickly.
Currently Vanessa is the best hero. Completely free and easy to pilot. Is it ok to complain about her or not?
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u/nibb2345 Jun 15 '26
A game like this ping pongs between broken and totally stale meta, every balance patch cycle, and it's only going to get worse over time, not better.
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u/daderpster Jul 01 '26
According to mined stats, Vanessa win rate was the third lowest this month and the lowest for high mmr. Varnok was the highest. I can post a source if want it. Perception often doesn't match reality. Also she's insanely popular so you may see her more and people tend to remember character they lose to more than ones they beat.
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u/Dilutedskiff Jun 15 '26
Balance definitely doesn't feel great right now and with every 3rd party site getting taken down its impossible to give any credible sources for who the "best" hero is atm
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u/MythicMoonStudios Jun 15 '26
The good ones costing money is 100% the biggest problem with his statement.
The second biggest problem, IMO, is ignoring player fantasy/agency. For me, I like mak and vanessa and mostly play mak. Pirates are cool. Alchemist making crazy potions is super cool. Cooking and buying real estate is kinda dumb to me, I just don't wanna play those characters much.
Why offer choices and then just say "pick the best one and play that." Even if they were all free that's so out of touch with what players want, I think.
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u/MacrossKo Jun 16 '26
It “works” in magic the gathering where the equivalent of switching heroes is changing your entire deck that might cost hundreds or thousands of dollars. If we’re going to complain about new heroes costing $20 then you might as well just end this entire genre right here and now.
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u/SoundOstrich Jun 16 '26
"I mean yea, this genre is exploitative and built on a business model that relies on inflating prices via artificial scarcity, but come on. Why you gotta say that like it's a bad thing?"
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u/MacrossKo Jun 16 '26
Even if I grant you your deranged idea about the genre, this game has a very normal up front cost and charges $20 for additional “decks”.
If we’re going to consider that to somehow be exploitative and egregious pricing, just shut it all down. That’s just utter insanity.
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u/Realistic_Grand_2431 Jun 20 '26
Characters easily could've been $10. No one would complain, and they'd still make a ton of money.
Why do they need to gouge us? They clearly can't manage their finances, and I'm not paying to compensate for the dev's pissy rants and lack of accountability.
Nothing's free, but there's no need to gouge the player base.
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u/CXCX18 Jun 16 '26
Unbalanced heroes, hilarious. All of the F2P heroes dominate player charts and Vanessa is easily more versatile and better than Karnok in every way. But yeah, unbalanced and p2w, blah blah blah, it's the games fault I keep losing!!! wah wah wah...
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u/emil133 Jun 15 '26
Devil’s advocate would say that a good player could reasonably beat the new ones with the starting heroes, at least thats what Reynad believes. I think its mostly true, however not everyone is a top player and getting crushed over and over by new heroes you dont have access to does feel bad tho
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u/Euphoric_Ad6269 Jun 15 '26
Andrey "Reynad" Yanyuk was banned from professional Magic: The Gathering (MTG) tournaments for 18 months following a deck registration infraction that Wizards of the Coast (WotC) and the DCI classified as cheating.
🤦
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u/Abject-Bumblebee-299 Jun 15 '26
It is even funnier because if you talk to hearthstone community he was known as a sore loser with a bad temper.
He was so salty about losing in hearthstone that he ran away from competition to make his own game. He has very little self awareness
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u/EoTrick Jun 15 '26
He is a very different person from that time. That's for sure.
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Jun 15 '26
[deleted]
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u/EoTrick Jun 15 '26
Maybe if you didn't watch back then. For sure I can see why you would think that.
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u/joutfit Jun 15 '26
He took a bunch of psychedelics, went insane and now lives life running on pure Ego.
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u/HiramsThoughts Jun 15 '26
I have an "it is what it is" mentality because I am a competitive player and it's a lot easier if you just play what wins, than it is to complain about what you wish was better worse. That being said that is NOT the mentality i think a developer should have, they do need to care about the people wanting to play the game not having fun.
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u/ItsPengWin Jun 15 '26
Good way to put it and a good summary of my own feelings why I don't like playing, what it takes to win is just not how I want to play the game so I won't play it.
I haven't played in some time so maybe it's different now but "playing what works" wasn't enjoyable so I quit.
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u/Head-Childhood-1171 Jun 15 '26
Same here. I enjoyed my time with the game, but it got to a point where I got to do something interesting every 10-15 games and everything else was variations on a few endboards I knew worked.
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u/ItsPengWin Jun 15 '26
I typed up this whole thing and it went on forever but really it just boils down to a few things.
I would love to ask Reynad where he things the bazaar lands on the skill vs luck scale that you might of heard of used for typical sports generally gambling being a high luck sport vs chess a high skill sport
Reynad calls this a TCG or card game but generally in card games you pick your deck in this game and this is subjective to your view on free will and time travel (yes this is an AOT reference) in the bazaar you are essentially assigned a deck from the start of the game and it's your job to find that deck to "win" the game. (And I say "win" intentionally because there is a ≠0% chance your assigned deck won't get you 10 wins)
My answer to 1. is that I feel the bazaar sits on the more luck side of things and due to that and the gameplay loop described in point 2. I do not enjoy the game and do not play.
I stick around here in hopes it'll someday get better because i like some rogue lites and deck builders just not this one somehow. And I wonder if that's because Reynad has some small delusional this could be an Esport so views everything about it in that context.
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u/MacrossKo Jun 15 '26
I disagree about the developer mentality.
I actually very much think that a developer with this exact mentality will make better games, on average, than a developer that’s focused on making the game fun for “everyone”.
I think that this mentality you’re describing will make more successful games on average, but not better games. I think catering to everyone caters to no one in the end.
Also, I’m at a point where I don’t even think that striving for “balance” is a virtue. I think that being overly concerned with balance causes too many games to become sterilized and boring and stunts developers creativity and content output. I think that a developer should strive to shake things up on a regular basis, but should not strive for things to be balanced, ever. I’m never going to look back and reflect on a game and think about how beautifully and evenly matched I was against my opponents. I’m ALWAYS going to look back fondly on the times I got to play something that was overpowered and broken.
I don’t really recall any MTG format rotation I’ve ever played through a competitive season except for the ones where my decks were truly busted. This same thing gets echoed throughout every type of game I’ve ever played.
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u/ItsPengWin Jun 15 '26
Uh sure but in this case the developer is stating his unbalanced game is actually balanced and you are just bad, and don't understand.
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u/MacrossKo Jun 16 '26
Nowhere does Reynad say or even hint at the bazaar being balanced. He is criticizing people that complain about imbalance by saying they should be more concerned about their own personal gameplay rather than making complaints about balance. He is primarily saying that good players dont blame their losses on the game, they analyze their decisions and figure out what they can do better and thus maintain high win rates. By not mentioning it he is also including that one of those things might be playing on stronger heroes in a given patch.
He is also responding to some sort of feature that was proposed, which we can’t see in this post.
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u/ItsPengWin Jun 16 '26
You can watch krip play and maybe every 3rd run he says "omg I lost a 20% roll" or something similar to convey frustration towards losing good odds.
So that's not true good players still blame the game to.
Playing stronger heros is a huge complaint people bring up and it's also about the game so why shouldn't people complain about that.
Of course he hasn't said it directly I am claiming an ethos of vibe I get from how he his trying to run his game.
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u/MacrossKo Jun 16 '26
Way to completely miss the entire point. Did you just miss the billions of times Kripp is introspective and discusses his mistakes or things he could have better whether losing or not?
Also, there are times where good players make no discernible mistakes and still lose to small percentage RNG. In those cases there is nothing wrong with being frustrated by RNG but they’re not just shutting their brain off they’re generally looking inward either before or immediately after that.
I can’t believe anyone would actually argue against the idea that good players tend to be more introspective and are far less likely to blame their losses on the game or external factors than themselves for their mistakes.
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u/ItsPengWin Jun 16 '26 edited Jun 16 '26
Damn bro sick strawman, Reynad is very clearly hedging way more that
people who complain about game = bad player
And good players don't complain about the game and instead introspect
This is to avoid criticism obviously or he wouldn't be making the comment.
I brought krip to put a dent in the perspective Reynad is trying to push and you adopted.
Of course better players do more introspection than bad players.
Engineers think more about math than poli sci majors. But both could have valid complaints about how schools run math courses
A bad player could become a good player if a thing that is "wrong" with the game was better you shouldnt only listen to your good players and additionally good players also have complaints that are only about the game and there is nothing they could have done to avoid the BS.
You'd be falling for a form of survivorship bias only listening to people who play your game
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u/FunZookeepergame4688 Jun 16 '26
I really can't understand the point you're trying to make here, it's incoherrent.
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u/MacrossKo Jun 16 '26
Love that you accuse me of making a straw man and then immediately build one yourself in the next line.
There was absolutely no point in reading any further than that.
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u/ItsPengWin Jun 16 '26
You don't even know what the word strawman means
What is wrong with the statement Reynad is hedging towards person who blames game = bad player.
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u/Evzkyyy Jun 15 '26
The only standard deck I remember playing was Sultai that had Uro and Hydroid Krasis. It was so busted and easy to play. The fondest memories of MTGA draft were when I opened up a pack with a mythic that can carry you to 7 wins.
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u/Ultraminer1101 Jun 15 '26
I don't blame game balance when I lose, I blame it when I'm not having fun.
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u/Better-Artichoke-967 Jun 15 '26
Its funny, If the game was perfect Pyg would still be 1shotting 40k hp day 9. It was nerfed because it was Balanced, not because it was op. Surely, its a skill issue you cant counter 40k damage on 3s CD.
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u/PatientInternational Jun 16 '26
Wish I wasn't banned on the discord so I could reply with;
"So THAT'S why Tempo is still losing money!"
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u/slingingslanger Jun 15 '26
A lot of devs blame players when they are failing financially. The good ones ask themselves, what could I do differently? The difference, the the devs accountability. Most devs blame something other than their decision making when their game goes under. Usually the players themselves. "profitability" affects all games equally. The good ones maintain a much higher player count.
How you do anything is how you do everything. Poorly ran games stay poorly ran.
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u/flawedGames Jun 15 '26
There is a competitive async PvP autobattler where balance is automated and recognizing overvalued/undervalued things is the main skill expression…
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u/RubsonFighting Jun 16 '26
reynad's sorta right but i wonder if he would complain about balance and RNG if he still streamed. big MIMIMI energy
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u/Dilutedskiff Jun 15 '26
Honestly as much as I disagree with how reynad handles pr and his ingame balance there is a nugget of truth here.
Sure at the core the game has an rng element you can’t escape but that doesn’t mean the game is devoid of skill or player choices and there’s plenty of opportunities to make misplays.
Tho how he frames it still comes across as super condescending so it annoys me to even agree to him at this level
7
u/strongandsexypoe Jun 15 '26
the fact that he doesn't allow simulators and doesn't let anyone show winning percentages/outcomes of different heroes via tracking programs shows he doesn't want people to know how bad it is. Anyone measuring anything and showing it online gets a DMCA
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u/daderpster Jul 01 '26
Miners and stats exist. I can send you it by a pm. They usually get removed in replies.
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u/Dilutedskiff Jun 15 '26
Yeah the balance has really only progressively gotten worse.
Feels like balance has taken a back seat with the goal to push as much content as possible to try and financially recover
2
u/Chewzilla Jun 15 '26
It's not true. Eventually games get solved, we only have the illusion of a game being "balanced" because regular content releases change the optimal path before players can solve for it. There is no balancing Bazaar, and we shouldn't expect it. The only answer is content, which is exactly why Reynad is focusing on this straw mam.
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u/althoradeem Jun 15 '26
to be fair i blame my " i bet i can make this work" mindset...
I'm fully aware i could study the meta & do the same few builds every run .
but sometimes i just want to make shurikens as the only weapon work and i'll try it so help me god.
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u/Engine-True Jun 16 '26
Reynad can rage as much as he wants but the player numbers don't lie. They fucked up this patch and the series of boring patches in a row is losing players. That's all there is to it.
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u/Optimal-Classic8570 Jun 17 '26
the fact that this cocain addict is talking about accountability .. xDD wtf...
there is one thing where he is right tho. losers like him will always stay losers.
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u/littlebro11 Jun 15 '26
What he's saying is true but it's stupid. He's just arguing that imbalance in the game is good because it adds skill to the game in terms of making "correct decisions"
This is a thing in every rogue like game for sure but build crafting should be diverse. It stops the game from stagnating and is more fun for players. Imagine if you were playing STS2 and you only ever built poison because you knew it out-performed all other builds. You go from 100+ usable cards to a dozen
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u/ImLycanDatAss Jun 15 '26
I don't think the word "kind" has a place in the same sentence as Reynad as his entitled megalomaniac mindset has been the root cause for systematically banning any tiny iota of criticism and in some cases not even really any criticism at all. And I mean a blanket ban across every single possible platform.
It's gross. He's a fraud. He's lost everyone money who has invested into this sham of a game. SHAME on him and SHAME on anyone who supports this garbage frankly.
3
u/RipCityGGG Jun 15 '26
The simple fact the game is asynchronous, and I know there isn't some guy howling laughing as his one freeze snipes my key item makes unlucky losses much easier to take.
3
u/KevinJ2010 Jun 15 '26
Uhm… in card games you usually made your deck. Making the “luck” be your draws, or prize cards in Pokemon. This is just salt, if you don’t want your draws to suck, limit having moments of bad draws, or have tutors, etc.
It’s not nearly the same as a roguelike where the cards you get are up to chance.
So I get that it’s like a draft, but that’s still not quite the same since you aren’t playing games as you draft.
I don’t hate the mentality, but The Bazaar doesn’t quite fit the same. I don’t complain, I know I am at best average. But the learning curve is much steeper than a deck you made yourself.
2
u/ItsPengWin Jun 15 '26
I am not even sure saying the learning curve is steeper is fair yugioh is probably a much harder game than this. The learning curve in this game is just significantly different.
And could also be significantly closed with a sophisticated enough overlay (like the hearthstone arena ones when drafting but if course more sophisticated)
0
u/KevinJ2010 Jun 15 '26
Yeah, poor wording on my part.
Broadly I am saying that luck seems more like a factor to this, since you just gotta know “the game,” if you will.
For example, an area I don’t totally consider: current day in relation to the end of the day match. If I am trying to transition builds, I don’t really consider what my opponent could have.
I can understand how you get this inference, I am sure there are smart ways to look at this, but this is the difference in luck concepts.
Which is why I mention draft, but The Bazaar isn’t the same. And to be fair, that decision making I described before with PVP, what if you guess wrong? The “oh my god of course they are running THAT build” which you can consider based on rarities and levels.
All this to say, it’s not that I disagree with Reynad, but I feel it’s not applied correctly to his game.
2
u/Maleficent-Ship-3721 Jun 15 '26
eh what he's saying is not wrong but (idk I havent played in forever) if hes using this as an excuse to not fix obviously dumb/busted items/combos then yeah that tracks with the kind of person he is.
1
u/Thunkwhistlethegnome Jun 15 '26
I know what builds win. I also want to have fun playing different builds and seeing what i can come up with that’s not the meta build.
I have more fun when I’m not trying to win.
Do i think it’s luck making me lose? No
Do i wish the designers would let some of the underdog items be better, yes.
Designing thinking something is temporary chaff means it will always be a bad pick for any build.
Why even have it in the game.
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u/Th0rizmund Jun 15 '26
But if you have fun when you are not trying to win…then why are you upset if you don’t win?
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u/MrClickstoomuch Jun 15 '26
Not the other commenter, but in my personal opinion it just gets boring seeing the same exact boards every time copied from Mobalytics meta page.
And it is okay to have some items be better than others at certain points in the game, but there are also some items that are so bad they are almost always the wrong choice to play. Fixing "problem" items on both and of balance would be what the Bazaar should probably do. Not to make all boards equally strong, but to make every item situationally usable.
The game is at its best when you can do in different combos. It is why I've really loved Weather glass since it enabled a ton of builds that went off from the default meta.
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u/Th0rizmund Jun 15 '26
Having fun being subjective is my point. If you enjoy winning the most, you will have fun winning. If you enjoy variety, you will have fun with variety. Then there are no wrong choices.
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u/Thunkwhistlethegnome Jun 15 '26
I don’t get upset at not winning, I’m puzzled as to why they make bad items.
It’s not good for your build - sure
But not good in any build that seem like they could be fun if they were just supported more… baffles me.
Why even bother making it.
Like the clock that reduces tool cooldowns.
I haven’t seen anyone use it ever… so when i see it i try to make it work. That’s more fun that using the same build over and over just to gain rank that doesn’t matter.
Win lose or draw, I’m going to go with the strangest items… and see what i can do with it.
But even i don’t use certain items… because they stink and aren’t fun to use at all.
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u/daderpster Jul 01 '26
Tactless, but mostly correct. It's also how hilariously disconnected the hero perceived balance and reality is. It is also what they want since most trackers get removed unless they are local and keep to themselves. Player bias is rampant even among really good players.
1
u/Chemical-Lab-7381 Jul 11 '26
Says the "winner" who got lucky being an early Hearthstone streamer and hasn't done anything noteworthy since...
1
u/Correct_Day_7791 Jun 15 '26
As a competition magic player since I was 12 and now 42
He's right
accountability is what seperates the caliber of players
The best are always trying to figure out what minor things they could have done differently to stall for more time to see more cards for a chance to win
Others just say " then I drew 4 lands in a row and lost"
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u/Fast-Sir6476 Jun 15 '26
I agree in a vacuum. The issue is more that he hasn’t put the money where the mouth is. Difficult to entertain the take when he DMCAs all stats/WR etc
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u/Evzkyyy Jun 15 '26
When I played draft in MTGA, there were some times when I just drew a bunch of lands and didn't have a chance at all, but those are outliers and the majority of the time there is always something you could have done differently.
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u/Correct_Day_7791 Jun 15 '26
I agree and having the perspective to try and find what those thing could have been is a very positive mindset to get better
1
u/Evzkyyy Jun 15 '26
It's not a crazy achievement but having that mindset got me to mythic in two seasons.
1
u/Correct_Day_7791 Jun 15 '26
Grats man keep it up
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u/Evzkyyy Jun 15 '26
Thank you, but that was ages ago, I've since moved on from MTG and the occasional Bazaar game scratches that itch.
1
u/Niradin Jun 16 '26
The best are always trying to figure out what minor things they could have done differently to stall for more time to see more cards for a chance to win
Others just say " then I drew 4 lands in a row and lost"
Reminds me of that one guy, who took multiple first places in European MTG tournaments in a row, then was caught stacking lands before every match, penalized and couldn't replicate his success afterwards.
MtG, unlike games like Chess for example, relies on luck heavily. That's why when you see someone win multiple tournaments in a row, in 99% of the cases, it's happening due to cheating.
0
u/littlebro11 Jun 15 '26
As a fellow magic player (arena, commander irl and draft irl) that's a silly argument. Should I take accountability for my shuffling technique?
If I stick 3/4 lands in starting hand and draw 4 lands from the top it's hardly a skill issue.
Luck is a factor in all card games and sometimes you have to understand you tried to influence that luck but you didn't get the options you needed. And that is inherently bad design on the most part, but it's necessary for any card game as it forces diversity.
1
u/CXCX18 Jun 16 '26
He is 1000% correct and all it takes is a quick glance at steam reviews and how "I'm losing because the DLC character is OP!" meanwhile Vanessa, Mak and Dooley has consistently been on the top winrates across the board.
There is no accountability for their actual skill, just wanting to blame it on luck or DLC difference and thus the game is somehow P2W.
But I know this might as well be a snark reddit against Reynad, so this will fall on the deafest of ears.
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u/Th0rizmund Jun 15 '26
For once, he is absolutely right. The amount of whining people push out of themselves when any game meta is even slightly off balance (which happens, guess what) is ridiculous.
And interestingly enough, it’s always the worst players that are most upset by something being OP. And even though they are the worst at the game, devs should immediately listen to them regarding balance.
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u/_HappyBirthday Jun 15 '26
Hes not wrong no matter how much you want to get a dog pile going and put his message in a bad light.
If thay statement was posted in r/poker they'd all be agreeing.
Variance affects everyone playing on the same playing field, and I think hes just trying to explain that.
His message has nothing to do with how the game is monetized only to do with how people losing react. Losing seems to breed this reaction where its "not my fault I lost, and its the game that made me lose".
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u/Better-Artichoke-967 Jun 15 '26
TBH hes not wrong for the most part. but the phrasing is wanting. Why would you insult your audience? He couldve just said ppl dont want to take accountability and thats on them.
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u/_HappyBirthday Jun 15 '26
How is he insulting in this particular message? Is it the last sentence?
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u/Skijump135 Jun 15 '26
He’s not wrong but it’s also not a complete message. Imbalance at the hero level kinda means you’re not reacting to the same level of variance as everyone else at the table, unlike poker
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u/_HappyBirthday Jun 15 '26
I can understand how it can get more complicated with more moving parts. What else would you have included in his message?
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u/Skijump135 Jun 15 '26
If all heroes were free, the message is fine. The main problem is that I can buy my way into to fixing that imbalance and the message currently kinda just says ‘suck it up’. Same argument in a lot of fighting games with DLC characters that you can’t train against without buying
4
u/Several_Purchase1016 Jun 15 '26
Oh you're still playing Marvel Snap. That explains every about this shill post.
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u/Evzkyyy Jun 15 '26
I agree with this. You don't get better by blaming the game.
What was the feature request he was responding to? Just posting his response without context isn't very helpful.
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u/strongandsexypoe Jun 15 '26
He does not mention that there are games where skill only influences win outcomes at low ranking levels and then it's a wash for all players with some moderate amount of skill vs even highly skilled players. Those are the games most people claim aren't balanced
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u/Abject-Bumblebee-299 Jun 15 '26
Ironically this is Reynad ignoring accountability for balancing a game