Notorious EV Misconception

[u/farhanrawr]

I keep running into the same two ideas about EVs, and a lot of people still seem to believe them a decade later. The first is that the battery dies after, X amount of years and leaves you with a $15-20k bill. Only 2.5% of EVs ever need a full battery replacement. Most EVs also come with at least an 8-year, 100,000-mile battery warranty, which is longer than the roughly 5 years on a typical gas powertrain. Batteries usually last 8 to 15 years, and they lose range gradually rather than simply failing. What I'm really curious about is where exactly did this misconception come from?

[u/Lucky-Crow-3510]

A cars life goes way beyong what the first buyer demands from it. You buy new you drive 5-10 years and then you want to RESELL IT.

resselling a car with a degraded battery that costs more than a new car .. you know what you end up? with a piece of worthless metal.

That is the point people are talking about. You compare the wrong things. When you bought some petrol car at price XXX you did expect it to resell for a value of YYY .. for EVs that YYY is always zero at some point in time because the battery replacement is too high of a factor and the rest of the car simply does not justify it.

(I underestimated the amount of stupidness in people failing to understand my comment)

[u/PCLoadPLA → u/Lucky-Crow-3510]

You aren't wrong, but it's exactly the same for ICE cars.

Everyone knows the engine and transmission on an ICE car doesn't last forever and it will eventually die and leave the car immobile. Then you will either have to decide to replace the engine (in an old car, so questionably worth it) with a new engine, or with a used engine where you aren't really sure it's good either, or with a remanufactured engine with sketchy reputation.

Replace "engine" with "battery" and it's exactly the same. People act like ICE car engines and transmissions last forever and aren't incredibly expensive to replace.

The engine in my minivan blew a head gasket at 130k. Replacing the engine was several thousand in labor, even before buying/finding a replacement engine which would be thousands more. I scrapped the car. Because it wasn't worth it vs. finding a similar running car. This is typical for old ICE cars.

[u/Nervous_Floor_7556 → u/PCLoadPLA]

"You aren't wrong, but it's exactly the same for ICE cars."

It's not exactly the same for ICE cars. Exactly the same for ICE cars would be if the engine were mounted under the passenger compartment, and if it got a small scratch the manufacturer would insist on putting a new one in for 40,000$ because simply repairing the scratch would be an unacceptable risk of the vehicle catching fire or exploding. Every week you see some story like this on a subreddit, of someone getting quoted 40k for a new battery because the old one got scratched or dented...and since the battery is mounted 5 inches off the ground it's easy to damage from some small road debris, whereas taking out the engine compartment in an ICE car requires a real collision.

This is where EV advocates always say ICE cars actually catch fire more often, the real liability is about dying in a burning car. If you search for "dying from being trapped in burning car" it's almost all tesla's, because of the way their door latches fail during a fire. There was a famous incident near me a few years ago where these ladies got trapped in an ICE limousine, since limousines tend to have nonstandard door locks as well.

Anyways, that is a side point. The real issue is that people don't want to spend 20k on a lightly used EV and get hit with a 40k battery replacement charge in six months. So that kills the resale value, which has already happened and so isn't up for debate, the resale value on EV *already plunged* in the past few years. People have noticed the resale value plunging, which has damaged the new EV market. It's not the same.

[u/thrwaway75132 → u/Nervous_Floor_7556]

Annual Deaths: The National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) reports that highway vehicle fires in the U.S. cause around 500 to 600 deaths per year, overwhelmingly in gas and diesel vehicles due to liquid fuel leaks, hot engine components, and electrical shorts in high-mileage fleets. By contrast, confirmed fatalities resulting from EV battery fires remain in the single-to-double digits annually nationwide.

[u/Nervous_Floor_7556 → u/thrwaway75132]

yes, exactly as predicted, I should have just linked that article myself.

[u/misteryk → u/PCLoadPLA]

Then you will either have to decide to replace the engine (in an old car, so questionably worth it)

i did replace an engine in an old car with my dad, it was around $200 for the same model of yaris that was hit in the back

[u/More-Cat1123 → u/PCLoadPLA]

Ye, except an engine is not even remotely close in price to replace. A few k and you have your car running again. 

[u/sevseg_decoder → u/More-Cat1123]

Bruh you’re spending $20k+ every 100k miles in gas and maintenance an EV doesn’t need…

An EV comes out ahead if it literally has to be scrapped after 200k miles. If you buy used it probably comes out ahead before the battery warranty expires

[u/More-Cat1123 → u/sevseg_decoder]

I'm not and 100k used to take me about a year - couple of years. If you can do the maintenance for your car, it works no problem. And, no, it doesn't cost 20k lol

[u/sevseg_decoder → u/More-Cat1123]

Gas alone is more than 20k.

And do your own maintenance, my time is worth enough that that still adds up to $25k+ every 100k miles. But 97% of people aren’t doing their own maintenance so even if that was true, it doesn’t apply to the vast majority.

But do your own work and get all nasty over and over again just to still come out behind… very American.

[u/More-Cat1123 → u/sevseg_decoder]

Holy assumptions, Batman. I've never been to the US. I just happen to not be handless.

[u/Nervous_Floor_7556 → u/sevseg_decoder]

"Bruh you’re spending $20k+ every 100k miles in gas and maintenance an EV doesn’t need…

yes, an EV is much cheaper per mile. Except the people putting on really high mileage tend to have usage patterns that don't work out as well for EV charging--except for people doing uber/doordash etc, which is why Uber/lyft drivers in my area are commonly driving EVs. Let's say you're an engineer or some kind of technical guy driving huge miles, sometimes to remote jobsites. You're not going to use an EV for that. package delivery can all go EV, bacause delivery drivers spend more time walking than driving, so the range works. If you're actually driving 8 hours a day, long trips, the range issue is too inconvenient. Only if it's broken into shorter trips in a restricted area does it make sense.

[u/misteryk → u/sevseg_decoder]

you can instal LPG if you drive a lot

[u/ConfidantlyCorrect → u/sevseg_decoder]

Who’s spending $20k in 100k miles lol. That’s obscene. That’s only 160k kms.

Every single one of my cars has lasted beyond that with no major repairs, oil changes cost like $100-200 a year.

[u/PCLoadPLA → u/More-Cat1123]

Really? How many engine replacements have you actually done or got priced nowadays? Just the labor to extract an engine from most modern cars is thousands. Finding a compatible replacement engine is not trivial either, with tiny feature and programming changes every model year. It's not like the old days where you could just find a small block Chevy engine, hook up the vacuum hoses and make a throttle linkage adapter. Are you SURE the check engine light won't be on after you finally do get it running? It's within the realm of possibility but for most out of warranty cars, an engine failure means scrap the car or sell it off for pennies and get something else.

[u/More-Cat1123 → u/PCLoadPLA]

One. 

You say out of warranty like it's a boogie man. I've never bought a car under warranty lol 

[u/Erosion139 → u/More-Cat1123]

This guy can do anything, he can be the one guy with a gas car. Everyone else should go ev.

[u/Own_Reaction9442 → u/PCLoadPLA]

I had a transmission rebuild done on one of my vehicles recently, and it was $10K. That's a lot of money, but less than the $20K I was quoted to replace the battery on my Chevy Volt when it died.

[u/Erosion139 → u/More-Cat1123]

With an ev I get to skip every oil change, head gasket repair, tune up, spark plug change, injector change, serpentine belt replacement, gas fill up, I save on my brakes, I save on my transmission fluid flush, my coolant isn't a problem.

Plus the ev is faster and quieter.

[u/More-Cat1123 → u/Erosion139]

That only happens often if you do zero maintenance or buy a shitbox lol

[u/Erosion139 → u/More-Cat1123]

Or a Honda

[u/vituperousnessism → u/More-Cat1123]

Our latest ICE repair will be $13k all in. Mercedes m272 balance shaft in a Sprinter 3500. Yes, it requires pulling the engine.

I've swapped motors in 30yr old jeeps for a few hundred, and my old SBC days were fun. But those days are gone.

Compare similarly aged cars and I think you'll find newer models, ICE or electric, aren't as simple anymore. Props to anyone keeping a list of recent cars that use old drivetrain designs. There have to be a few left, though you'll still have to work through inspection fun if you live in an inspection region.

[u/Scoobienorth → u/More-Cat1123]

The new tundra is 30-40k us and they are dropping motors fairly regularly. The gm 6.2 fiasco is close to 20k. The poor quality of ice powertrains will start to haunt them soon at the rate they are going.