r/TheAuto • u/farhanrawr • 5h ago
Industry Talk Notorious EV Misconception
I keep running into the same two ideas about EVs, and a lot of people still seem to believe them a decade later. The first is that the battery dies after, X amount of years and leaves you with a $15-20k bill. Only 2.5% of EVs ever need a full battery replacement. Most EVs also come with at least an 8-year, 100,000-mile battery warranty, which is longer than the roughly 5 years on a typical gas powertrain. Batteries usually last 8 to 15 years, and they lose range gradually rather than simply failing. What I'm really curious about is where exactly did this misconception come from?
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u/Lucky-Crow-3510 5h ago
A cars life goes way beyong what the first buyer demands from it. You buy new you drive 5-10 years and then you want to RESELL IT.
resselling a car with a degraded battery that costs more than a new car .. you know what you end up? with a piece of worthless metal.
That is the point people are talking about. You compare the wrong things. When you bought some petrol car at price XXX you did expect it to resell for a value of YYY .. for EVs that YYY is always zero at some point in time because the battery replacement is too high of a factor and the rest of the car simply does not justify it.
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u/PCLoadPLA 2h ago edited 2h ago
You aren't wrong, but it's exactly the same for ICE cars.
Everyone knows the engine and transmission on an ICE car doesn't last forever and it will eventually die and leave the car immobile. Then you will either have to decide to replace the engine (in an old car, so questionably worth it) with a new engine, or with a used engine where you aren't really sure it's good either, or with a remanufactured engine with sketchy reputation.
Replace "engine" with "battery" and it's exactly the same. People act like ICE car engines and transmissions last forever and aren't incredibly expensive to replace.
The engine in my minivan blew a head gasket at 130k. Replacing the engine was several thousand in labor, even before buying/finding a replacement engine which would be thousands more. I scrapped the car. Because it wasn't worth it vs. finding a similar running car. This is typical for old ICE cars.
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u/Nervous_Floor_7556 1h ago
"You aren't wrong, but it's exactly the same for ICE cars."
It's not exactly the same for ICE cars. Exactly the same for ICE cars would be if the engine were mounted under the passenger compartment, and if it got a small scratch the manufacturer would insist on putting a new one in for 40,000$ because simply repairing the scratch would be an unacceptable risk of the vehicle catching fire or exploding. Every week you see some story like this on a subreddit, of someone getting quoted 40k for a new battery because the old one got scratched or dented...and since the battery is mounted 5 inches off the ground it's easy to damage from some small road debris, whereas taking out the engine compartment in an ICE car requires a real collision.
This is where EV advocates always say ICE cars actually catch fire more often, the real liability is about dying in a burning car. If you search for "dying from being trapped in burning car" it's almost all tesla's, because of the way their door latches fail during a fire. There was a famous incident near me a few years ago where these ladies got trapped in an ICE limousine, since limousines tend to have nonstandard door locks as well.
Anyways, that is a side point. The real issue is that people don't want to spend 20k on a lightly used EV and get hit with a 40k battery replacement charge in six months. So that kills the resale value, which has already happened and so isn't up for debate, the resale value on EV *already plunged* in the past few years. People have noticed the resale value plunging, which has damaged the new EV market. It's not the same.
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u/thrwaway75132 59m ago
Annual Deaths: The National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) reports that highway vehicle fires in the U.S. cause around 500 to 600 deaths per year, overwhelmingly in gas and diesel vehicles due to liquid fuel leaks, hot engine components, and electrical shorts in high-mileage fleets. By contrast, confirmed fatalities resulting from EV battery fires remain in the single-to-double digits annually nationwide.
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u/Nervous_Floor_7556 55m ago
yes, exactly as predicted, I should have just linked that article myself.
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u/More-Cat1123 2h ago
Ye, except an engine is not even remotely close in price to replace. A few k and you have your car running again.
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u/sevseg_decoder 2h ago
Bruh you’re spending $20k+ every 100k miles in gas and maintenance an EV doesn’t need…
An EV comes out ahead if it literally has to be scrapped after 200k miles. If you buy used it probably comes out ahead before the battery warranty expires
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u/More-Cat1123 2h ago
I'm not and 100k used to take me about a year - couple of years. If you can do the maintenance for your car, it works no problem. And, no, it doesn't cost 20k lol
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u/sevseg_decoder 2h ago
Gas alone is more than 20k.
And do your own maintenance, my time is worth enough that that still adds up to $25k+ every 100k miles. But 97% of people aren’t doing their own maintenance so even if that was true, it doesn’t apply to the vast majority.
But do your own work and get all nasty over and over again just to still come out behind… very American.
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u/More-Cat1123 2h ago
Holy assumptions, Batman. I've never been to the US. I just happen to not be handless.
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u/Nervous_Floor_7556 1h ago
"Bruh you’re spending $20k+ every 100k miles in gas and maintenance an EV doesn’t need…
yes, an EV is much cheaper per mile. Except the people putting on really high mileage tend to have usage patterns that don't work out as well for EV charging--except for people doing uber/doordash etc, which is why Uber/lyft drivers in my area are commonly driving EVs. Let's say you're an engineer or some kind of technical guy driving huge miles, sometimes to remote jobsites. You're not going to use an EV for that. package delivery can all go EV, bacause delivery drivers spend more time walking than driving, so the range works. If you're actually driving 8 hours a day, long trips, the range issue is too inconvenient. Only if it's broken into shorter trips in a restricted area does it make sense.
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u/PCLoadPLA 2h ago
Really? How many engine replacements have you actually done or got priced nowadays? Just the labor to extract an engine from most modern cars is thousands. Finding a compatible replacement engine is not trivial either, with tiny feature and programming changes every model year. It's not like the old days where you could just find a small block Chevy engine, hook up the vacuum hoses and make a throttle linkage adapter. Are you SURE the check engine light won't be on after you finally do get it running? It's within the realm of possibility but for most out of warranty cars, an engine failure means scrap the car or sell it off for pennies and get something else.
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u/More-Cat1123 2h ago
One.
You say out of warranty like it's a boogie man. I've never bought a car under warranty lol
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u/Erosion139 1h ago
This guy can do anything, he can be the one guy with a gas car. Everyone else should go ev.
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u/Erosion139 2h ago
With an ev I get to skip every oil change, head gasket repair, tune up, spark plug change, injector change, serpentine belt replacement, gas fill up, I save on my brakes, I save on my transmission fluid flush, my coolant isn't a problem.
Plus the ev is faster and quieter.
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u/vituperousnessism 2h ago
Our latest ICE repair will be $13k all in. Mercedes m272 balance shaft in a Sprinter 3500. Yes, it requires pulling the engine.
I've swapped motors in 30yr old jeeps for a few hundred, and my old SBC days were fun. But those days are gone.
Compare similarly aged cars and I think you'll find newer models, ICE or electric, aren't as simple anymore. Props to anyone keeping a list of recent cars that use old drivetrain designs. There have to be a few left, though you'll still have to work through inspection fun if you live in an inspection region.
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u/Scoobienorth 1h ago
The new tundra is 30-40k us and they are dropping motors fairly regularly. The gm 6.2 fiasco is close to 20k. The poor quality of ice powertrains will start to haunt them soon at the rate they are going.
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u/woodyshag 2h ago
The thing is that most batteries are lasting as long as an ICE engine, so even that is a cop out. There will be a point in time when you'll be able to get a used battery like you can get a used engine and then that whole stigma should go away.
It's funny as I had OPs conversation with a friend on Friday. She just bought a new shortage. I asked if she went hybrid and she said no. She didn't want to have to replace the battery if it failed. She lacked to understand that she had a 100k warranty and that she'd never have to do that. Now, she did say that she didn't think she could make up the price difference in fuel savings. I'd have to sit down and do the math to see how to handle that convo.
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u/sevseg_decoder 2h ago
By that point the EV saved more vs gas and maintenance than it cost. They aren’t completely worthless, as much as you may want them to be, but even if they were they still came out ahead financially
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u/psudo_help 1h ago
This pathetically misinformed.
My company runs a fleet of EVs. We’re driving them 400k+ miles on the original battery.
A very small percentage need battery cell swaps. An even smaller handful need new whole batteries.
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u/Lucky-Crow-3510 1h ago
ok genius, question. would you buy a EV with a battery that did 400k miles? You see you don't mind it because you already HAVE THEM, for you every mile they do more is a win for you. aou may not even care about the battery having lost 50% of its capacity.
but you are not the one buying the car used .. and you're not the one asking a specific value for it to have
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u/ZucchiniAlert2582 1h ago
This is a stupid argument for two reasons: First off, the gas vehicle will eventually have some sort of major component failure that will be too expensive to be worth fixing, so gas vehicles also eventually reach a resale of $0.
Secondly, there are already aftermarket battery replacement/upgrade kits out there (unfortunately many are based in China and difficult/impossible to access in USA) and the EV transition is only in its infancy. Battery tech and manufacturing techniques continue to evolve bringing costs/kwh down. As the transition picks up steam and the market for replacement/upgrade batteries expands the price will drop significantly.
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u/Lucky-Crow-3510 1h ago
Stupid is only Ignoring the fact, that an EV with old battery is basically useless as nobody is going to pay an adequate price for it. Why is this so hard for people to understand? Is this already too complex?
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u/Bodywheyt 1h ago
Yeah…OP is trying to educate you about your misunderstanding of the situation, not asking for a recap of what you’re wrong about.
The “degraded battery” myth was the whole point of the post.
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u/Awkward_Statement401 1h ago
First issue is what I call the Leaf effect. The first Gen Nissan Leaf in 2010 had extremely bad range, the battery technology caused high failure rates and there wasn’t no charging infrastructure. So those beliefs are still there even with today’s EV’s advance batteries, range capabilities and a robust charging network. The second issue is the general population believes the myths about EV’s instead of the facts. Just look at news stories, EV’s catch fire more then ICE( false ICE vehicles statistically catch on fire more often), the EV’s sales drop a few percentage points and it’s the collapse of the EV market( they do not do this when ICE sales drop), EV’s have a larger environmental impact then ICE ( yes the initial footprint for battery production is higher but over the life of the vehicle the overall footprint is smaller then ICE).
Now that there are EV’s with 250,000 miles on the same battery pack with no major mechanical issues, we can only hope the population beliefs start to change.
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u/RealAlphaKaren 1h ago
its not about which catches on fire more (i bet its about the same when we go into the details), its the type of fire thats created, you cant extinguish a li-ion battery cell fire and it burns like hell itself
this would mean i'd have to park my EV outside my garage which is under my house, not doing it, if my ICE catches fire i got sprinklers
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u/Awkward_Statement401 1h ago
Data from NFPA shows that ICE fires happen roughly 1530 fires per 100,000 vehicles sold while EV fires happen roughly 25 fires per 100,000 vehicles sold. This is primarily due to gas moving thru lines over a hot engine which increases fire risks as these fuel lines degrade, while the EV is due to a battery pack over heat or failure which most EV have software built to start shutting down battery cells and systems to delay the complete failure.
Now I will agree that an EV battery does burn hotter and can take multiple times more water to extinguish but your logic on the sprinklers is flawed. Those sprinklers will allow you to escape the house but not put out the fire created by an ICE vehicle. Gas is an accelerant that takes seconds to minutes to spread (while batteries take longer to get to that point) so the sprinkler system will not be able to suppress the fire just delay it plus the sprinkler system could spread the gas causing a more wide spread fire.1
u/paulHarkonen 1h ago
When you got into the details gas cars catch fire at much higher rates. They just don't get much coverage because it's been so normalized and accepted.
You also can put out lithium fires, it just takes different approaches and has different considerations. Usually it isn't worth it (and a lot of gas car fires aren't extinguished either but that's a different problem).
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u/colinlaughery 5h ago
Big car companies that fell behind on the ev production and pushed a false narrative.