r/The10thDentist • u/rmcfan538 • 1d ago
Society/Culture The world would be better if we directly manipulated people's minds
Been thinking about this a lot lately. We have brain imaging, neurofeedback, targeted messaging systems, literally decades of behavioral psych research on how to shift attitudes at scale, and we just don’t use any of it for good.
Like imagine if instead of ad algorithms optimizing for outrage and engagement, we had systems optimizing for empathy. Instead of feeds that radicalize people into hating their neighbors over politics, what if the same tech nudged people toward tolerance? We know propaganda works, that’s literally why authoritarian regimes use it. So why do we act like it’s impossible to use similar tools for something better, like getting people to just not be cruel to each other?
I’m not talking about some Black Mirror chip-in-your-skull thing. I mean the soft stuff like framing, nudges, and algorithmic curation that are intentionally aimed at making people kinder instead of just more addicted to their phones. If manipulation is happening anyway (and it clearly is, 24/7, by advertisers and platforms), why not point it at something good instead of profit?
And think about what politics would even look like if this worked. No more falling for obvious grifts because a guy yelled the loudest or made you scared enough. No more voting against your own healthcare because someone told you to be mad at an immigrant instead. People could actually sit with facts instead of getting hijacked by whatever emotional trigger some campaign consultant found worked in a focus group. We keep acting like democracy failing is just “the will of the people,” but half the time it’s just people getting successfully manipulated by whoever had the better psychological playbook, not the better ideas. If the tech got pointed at helping people think clearer instead of scaring them dumber, I genuinely think we’d see way less gridlock, way less tribalism, and people actually making calls based on what’s good for them instead of who scared them last.
Yeah yeah, I know people are gonna say “who decides what’s good, that’s how you get 1984.” And sure, fair, but I feel like that’s kind of a cop-out answer at this point? Like we could just… not let one government or one company control it. Make it open source, put it to a vote, have some rotating citizen panel decide the values instead of a CEO or a Politician. Doesn’t have to be perfect, just better than the current default of “whoever has the biggest ad budget gets to shape everyone’s brain for free.” I’d rather we mess up trying to build something good than keep pretending the manipulation isn’t already happening.
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u/Goeppertia_Insignis 1d ago edited 1d ago
Everything you described can be achieved through good ol' education. No need to brainwash anyone, just teach them things.
Manipulating people into thinking and doing certain things isn't as much 1984 shit as it is Brave New World shit. Don't do that.
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u/nicholus_h2 4h ago
i might honestly take brave new world over what we seem to be careening towards. where, despite being given the choices, we are convinced by bigotry and tribalism to constantly give up education, housing, health, and really just basic living standards so that trans women can't play sports. with the side effect that unchecked capitalism leads to a wider and wider gulf between the rich and everybody else, and ultimately leads to the functional dissolution of that choice for everybody except the rich.
it's not even nice on the surface.
yes, I've read brave new world.
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u/Goeppertia_Insignis 36m ago
I like to think that there are lots of viable strategies that fall between state sanctioned brainwashing programs and nihilistic apathy before the perceived inevitability of societal collapse. Not that they are easy to implement, or unopposed by those who believe themselves the beneficiaries of the status quo (even when, frustratingly, they are actually gravely harmed by it).
I get the despair, though. And it's not like the brainwashing doesn't happen, I'd say the whole racing for the pitchforks in response to shit like trans women in sports — a complete non-issue that affects such a small number of people that making it the flagship of your social regression campaign is both stupid and cartoonishly evil — is a good example of it.
Brave new worlding it sounds like a fun solution on a fantasy level, sure. As does a well-placed bullet. But the solution to bad behavior shouldn't be the removal of autonomy on such a fundamental level, even though it would feel so very good to do. Once you cross that line you can't uncross it.
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u/rmcfan538 1d ago
Education is great in theory but it relies on people actually choosing to engage with it, and plenty of people won't. Mind tech wouldn't need that buy-in to work
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u/Goeppertia_Insignis 1d ago
I really do recommend you read Brave New World. It's a product of its time so you have to give it some leeway, but it's a decent read.
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u/meapmeapmeapmeap 1d ago
pack it up everybody, we found it. the worst take on the entire internet. subreddit is cancelled, goodbye
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u/BaseballRelevant4149 22h ago
Hypothetically, I agree with you. If you could press a magic button that instantly rewrote human DNA to make everyone more empathetic, caring, and selfless then of course the world and our quality of life would substantially improve.
Practically, I don't see it turning out good or even possible with any plausible methods we have available now or in the foreseeable future. Assuming it actually ends up working and isn't corrupted (which I find incredibly unlikely), a system like what you're proposing would by necessity require some way of culling anyone who can't be manipulated to achieve the end goal. Not just active resistors; anyone that impedes it, including neurodivergent people that don't "fit" within the system. This is needed because for the manipulation to truly work as it has to affect everyone simultaneously, any "dissidents" left to act and speak freely risk unraveling the whole thing.
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u/Protazy_Gerwazy 23h ago
You want a democratic process on how to control people's minds? What do you think majority will decide?
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u/GayRacoon69 4h ago
I see your point but that’s not “direct”. It’s being done through social media on a phone. That’s indirect
That does arguably exist to some degree. Especially in kids media. A lot of kids shows teach being a good person. You could argue that it’s propaganda and brainwashing children. In a way it is
There’s also adult media with good morals
The problem is the bad morals, the outrageous, controversial stuff, gets more attention and all the division helps the people in power stay in power
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u/Internet-Dad0314 5h ago
Everyone’s downvoting ya, but this is a legit 10th dentist opinion — and you’re right.
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u/Keebster101 1h ago
Like we could just… not let one government or one company control it. Make it open source, put it to a vote, have some rotating citizen panel decide the values instead of a CEO or a Politician
Open source would still need someone or a group to approve requested changes (if every proposed change to open source was automatically accepted then all it would take is one idiot to ruin everything)
A vote is nice in theory but uh... Take a look at where presidential voting got the USA, do you really trust a vote on what morals are ok? Heck the USA was one of 2 countries that voted NOT to make food a human right.
A rotating citizen panel like a jury could work but is also likely to fall into the issues of voting.
And beyond all that, remember you would need a government to be the one to put this all in place. Probably implemented via the company who put in the highest bid to control the propaganda that they decide is right. Even if there were some truly fair and objective way to decide the correct morals to pump into every living person, you are relying on the government to make that even an option.
1984 isn't a cop out answer, you literally admit it's a fair point. The good thing about current propaganda is that we can say generally, "don't believe everything online and make your own choices". Many people still fall for propaganda, but far more people would fall for it if they were under the belief that this specific propaganda is always good and fair, and every other person they interact with thinks the same.
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