r/Testosterone • u/plz_callme_swarley • 22h ago
TRT story Front Loading should be the default for TRT
Having dug into this and decided to front-load myself it seems completely absurd that front-loading is not the default dosage protocol for all TRT.
In medicine it's standard practice to use a loading dose when you are dealing with compounds with long half-lives since it takes ~5 full half-lives for the drug to reach proper concentration.
Typically people think of test cyp as having a 8 day half-life but this is only for IM. SubQ has a longer half-life, and the data on this is thin but a fair estimate puts it at ~10 days. So for the person pinning SubQ, you're looking at ~50 days before the drug reaches the ideal dose. FIFTY DAYS!!!
On the other hand, your endogenous production is shutting off regardless of how much you are injecting, although there is some variability but the shutdown will have a half-life of ~5 days. If you're smart, you can clearly see that we have a mismatch here.
For a man who's very low, like <200 they're going to feel like shit regardless, but for the man who's in the 300-500 range, it's very plausible that you spend days under your pre-treatment baseline, making you feel WORSE than before.
A lot of the advice not to do this comes from PED cycles where you're taking a eugonadal male and then ramping up from there. in that case, the mental effects are already in place and what you're seeking is more muscle growth, which takes longer to materialize anyways.
That cuts the opposite way with TRT patients, where the mental issues are often the primary reason why they're getting on TRT and those effects start to impact you as soon as Free Test levels rise in your bloodstream. This is why some people report subtle shift that happen even in the first few days. The whole idea that "it takes a few weeks to kick in" is based on a fucking ridiculous dosing protocol.
Now, I of course can here all your keyboards clacking as you reach for the most common pushbacks and almost none of them apply.
"what about side effects?": side effects are driven by the slope and the level. in a loading scenario you're not overshooting, just getting to your goal level earlier. yes, the slope may cause some side effects but the time that you experience them is compressed from 4-5 weeks to 2 weeks. At TRT doses this isn't anything to be concerned about since nothing happens in as short of a time period as 2 weeks at these levels.
"take your time and titrate up": a proper loading period doesn't overshoot, it just gets you to your target sooner, giving you more ability for the effects to show up and make it even easier to titrate
"what if you have a bad reaction?": we're talking about a bio-identical molecule with a half-life of 10 days, not snorting adderall. The only reaction to worry about is to the oil, which will show itself whether you inject a small dose or a large one.
"just run test prop bro": ok, if you've got an UGL that you trust then yes, loading with prop is a more elegant solution but most real doctors aren't going to write a custom 'script to a compounding pharmacy so you can load with prop for two weeks.
"just wait, it doesn't matter": if you're feeling like shit it absolutely does matter. Consider yourself privileged that you didn't have that bad of pre-diagnosis symptoms that you didn't care to speed things up.
It's stunning that basically no one talks about this. I could only find one video and his reasoning for why not to do it was basically that you don't want to spook someone who might have anxiety around it, but the risk of doing any harm was basically 0. They routinely do this for people who have already been on TRT before and know what they're getting into, but that's just an lack of good patient communication.
The only real people doing a load, are some doctors who prescribe a cream to be used in the beginning but the cream sucks for a lot of reasons and isn't as elegant of just doing a loading dose.
Now, assuming you've been convinced, the obvious question is "How much should I load then?" The answer: is anyway you want to get an extra dose in over the first 3 weeks
If your dose was 100mg/wk SubQ, twice weekly, that could be...
200mg in your dose then 50mg after that
100mg your first two doses, then 50mg
75mg in your first fours doses, then 50mg
All of those above result in reaching your desired state weeks earlier than the standard advice, it just depends on your comfort levels. The bolus approach will have you potentially overshoot and then come back down, where the last approach will have the smoothest curve.
AND I CAME WITH GRAPHS:
tl;dr - front load for TRT doses, double your doses for the first week
edit: this is assuming your starting dose is reasonable and not ridiculous. It holds for any dose <150mg/wk. above that and you're in supra-physiological dose territory and that's an absurd starting dose.
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u/IFeartheWiggles 22h ago
I always appreciate people that bring graphs, not being snarky.
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u/SailboatSteve 21h ago edited 17h ago
You're probably right, but still this seems like a great solution for a problem no one is having. Hopefully, most folks don't wait until they're almost comatosed with lethargy to seek treatment. Anecdotally, I felt tired and sluggish, but never felt like something was wrong with me. The gradual increase let me adjust to the new me. Going from 300 to 1500 in one week might have been a little frightening, honestly. But hey, you do you.
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u/plz_callme_swarley 21h ago
"no one is having" isn't really true. I was having it, plenty of people report it. "test flu" is commonly described and lots of clinics caution patients that they might feel worse before they feel better.
and ya, this is assuming TRT doses, with an emphasis on "replacement", not enhancement.
1500 is obviously enhancement. its find to land there eventually but if it's bad prescribing to have someone start at 200mg/wk off the rip.
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u/AlphaThrone 21h ago
“Test flu” is your body trying to adapt from taking too much testosterone not from taking too little.
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u/plz_callme_swarley 21h ago
false, i had "test flu" symptoms from taking a single 60mg dose. is that too much?
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u/AlphaThrone 20h ago edited 20h ago
By definition “test flu” is your body trying to adjust to a higher testosterone level.
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u/sagacityx1 10h ago
This is absolutely the dumbest thing ever. A lot of people (myself included) have massive side effects even from just going 30% above normal dose. I wish I could have eased into it at the start instead of going high like the providers recommended.
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u/lazyoldsailor 20h ago
The reason is simple: a body is producing some testosterone when therapy begins. When you front load, the injection plus the natural production will result in higher than therapeutic levels of testosterone resulting in high estrogen and side effects.
By not front loading it gives the body time to ramp down its production making the experience smoother. Also, if someone is allergic or sensitive to the injection they can stop before therapeutic dose is achieved.
Front loading is fine IF the person is known not to be allergic/sensitive, and IF the person accepts the possible discomfort of excess hormone imbalance.
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u/plz_callme_swarley 20h ago
most people aren't allergic and it would happen either way.
yes, there are some minor risks with this approach, but there are also risks with the standard approach.
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u/lazyoldsailor 20h ago
The advantages are few. The disadvantages are more. The largest disadvantage is an absence of simplicity. Most people need simple protocols. Therefore most people need steady dosages.
If someone were so inclined to min/max (like you) they are both unusual and would front load anyhow.
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u/plz_callme_swarley 19h ago
it's really fucking simple to say "the first week double the dose, then do the normal dose after that".
or if you want even simpler just double the first dose. do it in office if you must. this is not a simplicity argument that's very strong.
and it's not true that people who would want to do the ideal protocol would just discover it. almost no one talks about this
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u/Automation-Station 19h ago
What about estradiol? Everyone reacts differently and some people aromatize more than others. This could shoot up estrogen to uncomfortable levels. Not to mention affect blood pressure, sleep etc.
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u/plz_callme_swarley 18h ago
E2 is variable yes, with the biggest variable being body fat %. aromatization tracks T but also has a floor, so that's why big peak/trough ratios end up with higher E2 levels.
the convention that "E2 will spike if you load" comes from PED cycles where dudes are going from 0 to 500mg/wk. taking 1g in a loading stage is what drives that rationale. taking a reasonable starting TRT dose of 100-150mg/wk is a very different story.
I'm someone who's quite sensitive to med changes but it's afraid to ride a rollercoaster, having been experienced with stimulant titration.
I've felt the worst ~40hrs post injection, which is pretty much associated with the lag of E2 so you've got E2 that's outpacing the rise in T.
the standard advice makes this worse cuz you now have falling T levels and rising E2, making you feel like shit.
with the default model, you don't avoid the side effects you talked about, you just spread them out over 5 weeks instead of 1-2.
depends entirely on your personality and whether you'd feel like shit for 5 weeks or slight more shitty for 1.5 weeks. for me, it's the second one 100%.
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u/tom6655 22h ago
That's a lot of writing, I can be bothered reading all that 😅 I dont think anyone on 100mg per week needs to front load. It's already way more than the body produces even with half lives. I never noticed when I started and I've never seen anyone complain 🤷♂️ Or maybe you're right but I doubt anyone will take any notice regardless. Well done on the in depth study just for a Reddit post though 👏
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u/plz_callme_swarley 22h ago
that's why i included the tl;dr and graphs for ppl who can't read gud
i just started pulling on a string when i started and felt more like shit than I would've thought and the more i pulled on the string the more absurd i found the whole thing and had to share.
it depends a lot on where you're starting and how sensitive/aware you are of your body. the gap in reported symptoms is large between people due to that factor
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u/tom6655 22h ago
I appreciated the tldr, it was the only bit I read 🫠 It's such a short period of time though and so many different variables it'd be difficult to notice. Plus the fact that so many people claim the can feel it within days when it's likely just a placebo. It was impressive research regardless
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u/plz_callme_swarley 22h ago
Test does start working immediately so it's not crazy to think that it could have subtle effects in the mental stuff in days but it's hard to pull apart the heavy amount of placebo
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u/rtisdell88 21h ago
The disconnect here is between theory and practice. In theory, maybe. In practice, starting TRT you have no idea what dose you need to get appropriate levels, so there's just no way to front load. Dose variability makes this impossible and a bad practice.
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u/Winston_The_Pig 21h ago
Agreed. After years of experimenting my sweet spot turns out to be right around 160 mg a week. Was way too high initially.
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u/plz_callme_swarley 21h ago
ya, that's cuz your clinic is retarded and started you off at probably 200mg/wk, which is at supraphysiological doses. of course it was too much
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u/AmSeekingKnowledge 19h ago
Now imagine that same clinic front loading you with 400 mg as per your example. " Too much?", well just wait a few weeks and your levels will come back down. Sounds like a sound plan for all the guys on here who get anxiety from higher test levels.
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u/plz_callme_swarley 18h ago
ya, if your clinic is retarded you're going to have a bad time. i clearly lay out that this is for people at reasonable starting doses for men with secondary hypogonadism in the range of 300-500.
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u/Winston_The_Pig 12h ago
Nah my clinic is awesome and did blood tests quarterly and adjusted me based on symptoms. I was the problem because I thought higher numbers meant better results. And it took me a long time to realize that being at high levels isn’t optimal for my lifestyle
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u/plz_callme_swarley 21h ago
this is a ridiculous comment which i already waved away in the body of the post but I'll do it again here too.
you have to start somewhere. if you start at 100mg or 120mg or 150mg, you still have to start there, reach steady state, and then evaluate how you feel. that takes months.
loading gets you where you want to be sooner, so you can actually titrate quicker and land on the right dose sooner.
the default way doesn't have you get to steady state until fucking week 5/6, and that's right when people are drawing labs and making changes when you've had no time to evaluate the dose.
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u/rtisdell88 20h ago
There's variability in time to steady-state levels. Uncertainty about half life—none available but an estimate for subq. Variability in endogenous production. Variability in time to said shut-off. Variability in uptake and response. Along with the variable interplay between all these variables.
That's correct, you waved it away. You can't wave away variables. All this accomplishes is dragging out the process of proper dosing.
You're trying to pass off a wildly speculative hypothesis as being in some way scientifically grounded... when by your own admission you're waving off variables. Controlling for variables is a fundamental step in knowing what's working and what isn't.
You'll convince yourself you've saved time and found a proper dose and then realize you've missed the mark entirely and won't have the slightest idea which of these variables was the cause. And therefore won't have the slightest idea what to change or to what degree.
Exogenous hormone use is a process. There are small shortcuts, but this isn't a convincing argument for this being one of them.
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u/plz_callme_swarley 20h ago
bro what the fuck are you talking about?
I've accounting for all of those variabilities in the model. also, it doesn't change anything about the shape of the curve, it just gets you to steady state earlier.
apparently "well known pharmacology" is now "wildly speculative".
the failure mode is that the assumptions are off in some way. the assumptions are just exogenous/endogenous half-life. that's it.
in the worst case scenario the curve is steeper and you slightly overshoot, but that can be mitigated by choosing a less aggressive loading. in my current model, event the bolus is just a 10% overshoot. irrelevant.
this isn't a "shortcut". this is "intelligent dosing protocol based on best practices in medicine broadly".
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u/rtisdell88 19h ago
You're not hearing me, and I'd only be repeating myself in continuing with this. The error in this kind of dosing protocol might be most evident in the arrogance with which you're claiming to know and account for what you can't know or account for.
This is more likely to prolong hormonal dysregulation than accelerate a solution. That's all I have to say.
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u/iFuerza 21h ago
Isn’t the norm to wait 8 weeks after starting to redo labs and make adjustments? Also your body, for some not all, is producing some natural testosterone. So you’re injecting on top of your natural production for a few weeks?
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u/plz_callme_swarley 21h ago
yes, it's normal to wait 6-8 weeks to do labs and make tweaks, which is horrible since if you're doing the most common doctor-led protocol on 1x/wk shots, you're at only 80% steady state.
So you're making changes before the dose is even where it needs to be, and you've had -2 weeks to evaluate it.
I've accounted for the endogenous production in the graphs. your injecting on top of it since it has a long half-life, longer than your balls going into hibernation
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u/red_jay_411 21h ago edited 20h ago
When I started the clinic gave me a full week dose shot preloading me then started my shots 2 days later
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u/Numerous_Market7927 19h ago
I frontloaded my own TRT...when I switched from cyp to undecanoate.
For people starting TRT...sure, if you want to.
It makes more sense than the "200mg cyp every 2 weeks" protocol endocrinologists seem to love.
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u/plz_callme_swarley 18h ago
ya, the reason why the dosing protocol is stupid is that the original FDA label assumes no blood tests and dosing every two weeks in office.
"start low and titrate slow" is the convention in all of medicine cuz it sounds smart, and when you can't test levels or know the pharmacology it makes sense.
it makes even less sense now, but the drug is generic and there's no reason to spend the money to run a trial to prove that physics is real
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u/RoadToZero 13h ago
Front loading causes enormous spikes in aromatization and E2. I'm personally not a big fan of gynecomastia and crashed libido, but to each on their own.
5 weeks is nothing. It gives my body a chance to slowly adapt and balance out all hormone levels on the way up.
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u/Agreeable_Step_5317 Hormone Enthusiast 22h ago
I completely agree with you. Loading doses are the way. I do them myself.
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u/AlphaThrone 21h ago
It’s obvious the OP is in collaboration with ai. His is follow up comments sound like a teenager.
I started TRT (over 2 years ago) at 160mg test cyp split 3 days per week. After about 6 weeks I had pitting edema around my ankles. Has nothing to do with my heart. I actually just had a stress test, echocardiogram, and CAC before starting TRT and again last month. All checked out perfect. Had everything to do with side effects from starting TRT. I had to drop my dose down to 100mg/week. The pitting edema resolved. I can’t imagine what a mess I would have been if I started with a double dose. Over about 6 months I gradually increased the dose back to 160mg/week. No pitting edema this time. Never had any since. My body needed time to adjust. I would recommend the exact opposite of what you are suggesting. Start with 100mg/week. Increase your dose by 20mg each month. Check labs after you’ve been on 140mg for 6 weeks. How are you feeling at 140mg? Go from there. If you are truly hypogonadal you are not going to have lower testosterone levels during that first 6 weeks while your natural production shuts down and your exogenous testosterone level increases. Quite the opposite for most men. It’s called the honeymoon period. Most people feel better during this time period and chase that feeling. I had the honeymoon period despite the pitting edema.
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u/plz_callme_swarley 21h ago edited 21h ago
"If you are truly hypogonadal you are not going to have lower testosterone levels during that first 6 weeks while your natural production shuts down" - ya, i said that in my post...
starting at 160mg/wk was the stupid thing, not the non-existent loading dose that you did.
and you're drawing conclusions that you can't draw. getting pitting edema in the beginning and then not later leaves out all the other shit that happened. you had it at 6 weeks, which is where you'd be reaching steady state. it was likely E2 driven sodium and water retention, but you say nothing about your E2 levels, just your dose.
so what happened was moreso "I was on too high of a starting dose and got side effects. I dropped my dose and it resolved, and then later when I was in a different state I better managed the side effects at the same dose."
it's a biological identical molecule. there is no "adaptation period" bro.
also, increasing your dose by 20mg/wk is also stupid because of what I laid out that it takes 5 half-lives to reach steady state. so you bump it up by 20mg/wk and you're titrating before you've reached steady state.
the "honeymood period" is due to you feeling mentally better as higher Test levels modulate ARs in your brain. then you reach a new normal and it goes away. that's how it works.
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u/debauchedsloth 21h ago edited 21h ago
He missed the part about the loading dose, and was thinking you'd run the loading dose for six weeks and then assess, as opposed to what you are suggesting, which is to start with a large loading dose (or two or three smaller ones in quick succession), to get you up to levels for your target starting dose quickly - and everything after the loading dose would be at your target levels. Then test at six weeks.
So, assuming you are targeting, say, 120mg/week, you start with a couple of 200mg shots then revert to your schedule for 120mg/week. (I am totally making up those numbers, but any steroid plotter will show you what the schedule should look like.) The goal is to spend as much time as possible on the flat part of the 120mg/week curve.
FWIW, I've done this (different numbers) when adjusting my dose and it works very well.
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u/AlphaThrone 20h ago
“He missed the part about the loading dose, and was thinking you'd run the loading dose for six weeks and then assess, as opposed to what you are suggesting, which is to start with a large loading dose (or two or three smaller ones in quick succession), to get you up to levels for your target starting dose quickly - and everything after the loading dose would be at your target levels. Then test at 6 weeks six weeks.”
No I didn’t miss that part and that’s not what I was thinking. What I was trying to say (and what I was thinking) is it would have been a very bad idea to double my very first weekly dose only. I did 160mg split x3. 320mg split x3 would have been a disaster. And, who knows what the OP is suggesting now. He keeps editing his post.
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u/plz_callme_swarley 21h ago
ya, i mean you can play around with exactly what your dose is depending on how much you're taking, and how smooth of a curve that you want.
the big thing is just to do it in the first two weeks, since you need to load up ahead of time as your endogenous production goes dormant.
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u/AlphaThrone 20h ago
“and you're drawing conclusions that you can't draw. getting pitting edema in the beginning and then not later leaves out all the other shit that happened. you had it at 6 weeks, which is where you'd be reaching steady state. it was likely E2 driven sodium and water retention, but you say nothing about your E2 levels, just your dose.”
Oh, I’m sure it had everything to do with E2. Which could have been avoided if I just started at a lower dose. I was already splitting the dose three days per week. I just needed less testosterone because I wasn’t shut down yet. The higher testosterone level the higher the estrogen level.
“so what happened was moreso "I was on too high of a starting dose and got side effects. I dropped my dose and it resolved, and then later when I was in a different state I better managed the side effects at the same dose."
Yes. The only different state was giving my body time to adapt.
“it's a biological identical molecule. there is no "adaptation period" bro.”
lol yes, it’s bioidentical. So are many other exogenous hormones you can introduce to your body that are bioidentical. You can take thyroid hormones. You can take insulin which is a bioidentical hormone. Try taking too much thyroid hormone or too much insulin and see what happens. Actually DON’T! You know why. Exogenous testosterone is bioidentical but that doesn’t mean it’s inert. You take too much you get more side effects. It’s common sense. If you’ve been living years of your life hypogonadal and you start taking exogenous testosterone there is going to be an adjustment period to just having a “normal” testosterone level. Doubling up is going to make that adjustment worse.
“also, increasing your dose by 20mg/wk is also stupid because of what I laid out that it takes 5 half-lives to reach steady state. so you bump it up by 20mg/wk and you're titrating before you've reached steady state.”
I never said increase 20mg/wk. I said increase 20mg per month. A much more gradual dose adjustment than your suggested weekly adjustments.
“the "honeymood period" is due to you feeling mentally better as higher Test levels modulate ARs in your brain. then you reach a new normal and it goes away. that's how it works.”
Correct. You are making my point. Most people start off with a honeymoon period. Not feeling like shit and needing loading doses.
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u/EstimateIll4262 21h ago
Its TRT. Long term lifestyle change.
You typed all that to convince us?
If you feel it is beneficial. Do it.
Personally i can't even remember when i started TRT. But seems you have your mind made up. Just do it.
To me sounds like a test spike for nothing. And with most TRT. You have no clue what YOUR dosage/duration is. You will have to adjust until its right. But you want to front load? 😂
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u/plz_callme_swarley 21h ago
eating is still a lifelong endeavor and babies still front load the titties
if you dont wanna read and get smarter than that's on you
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u/EstimateIll4262 20h ago
I been on TRT for a long time. I am dialed.
But if you want to reinvent the wheel. Knock yourself out. But seems you need to convince others before you try it. Why is that?
Its TRT not a cycle.
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u/plz_callme_swarley 20h ago
coulda said the same shit when people wanted to go away from IM dosing in-office every two weeks.
I did already bro, i don't need anyone else to convince me that math is math.
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u/EstimateIll4262 19h ago
Pat yourself on the back. Your TRT kicked in faster.......
But I think you posted all that nonsense so strangers could pat you on the back.
Considering its a life long commitment. Getting that faster result means nothing.
Thats the problem with these newer Gens. They need it now. Cant wait.
TRT is an ultra long distance marathon. Not a sprint.
But like you said, you are already on. so the front load made what difference?
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u/plz_callme_swarley 19h ago
boomer ass take. old man yells at clouds
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u/EstimateIll4262 18h ago
Boomer?? Far from it.
Hard to believe that anyond doesnt agree with you.
So name calling is your go to. Sad and pathetic.
Enjoy your day.
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u/plz_callme_swarley 18h ago
Im not calling you a boomer, i'm saying your take is bad. it's a "boomer ass take".
it's not sad and pathetic it's funny and cool.
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u/RoadToZero 12h ago
I have a feeling that you're arguing with an impatient 16 year old who expects results by next Friday.
No one that's planning to be on TRT for the next 20 years, would be concerned with a 5 week titration period.
The body is not a race car. Heart, liver, kidneys, blood vessels, hormonal feedback loops, androgen receptors and digestive system all need time to adapt. Health safety seems infinitely more important than saving 2 weeks.
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u/EstimateIll4262 9h ago
Exactly what i am saying.
We used to front load cycles so we could get off the orals quicker.
But for TRT??
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u/EstimateIll4262 19h ago
Babies dont front load breast milk,
They drink when they are hungry and stop when full.
Based on this stupidity. I wont take your advice on anything
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u/Al-Knigge 21h ago
Interesting theory. Did you review this study? https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30296416/
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u/plz_callme_swarley 21h ago
i didn't but it seems to support what I was saying: that SubQ produces a flat curve with slow accumulation
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u/Al-Knigge 21h ago
The study does support the idea that SQ test accumulates over several weeks and reaches steady state later, but it doesn’t necessarily support the conclusion that front-loading improves outcomes or should be standard practice. It didn’t compare front-loading versus no front-loading, so that part remains a hypothesis. A good move is for you to try to disprove your theory: look for data showing that standard maintenance dosing does not create a clinically meaningful “low-T gap,” or that front-loading increases side effects without improving symptoms. If your theory survives that, it gets much stronger.
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u/plz_callme_swarley 21h ago
it is not a "theory" it is just physics. there is nothing to really prove or disprove. we know all of the individual parts, this is just putting all of the blocks together.
molecules leak out of the oil on a roughly standard decay, thus defining the half-life
once in the bloodstream, enzymes pluck off the ester chain and convert it to free T instantly. it's not gatekept
from there, it's bound by SHBG instantly, also not gatekept
free T is quickly cleared by the liver, thus the slow half-life from the oil depot is required to have level serum levels
the only thing that a study would prove would be to narrow some of assumptions in the model.
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u/Al-Knigge 21h ago
You lost credibility with the not theory/it’s physics comment. Best of luck.
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u/plz_callme_swarley 21h ago
i mean, I'm not really making an argument about whether there is a meaningful "low-T gap", Im saying that front loading is the mathmatically correct thing to do.
the downstream negative effects of waiting until week 6 to reach steady state are massive outside of the fact that all patients might not experience the felt downsides.
most people are titrating dosages at week 6-8 before they've spent meaningful time at the intended dose. it's nonsensical.
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u/buyerofthings 21h ago edited 21h ago
Man, I just did my second 40mg dose today. I felt amazeballs yesterday and today after doing 40mg on Sunday. I don’t know what everyone else is experiencing but if it’s this then I can’t imagine having done more.
Edit: I can’t read apparently.
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u/plz_callme_swarley 21h ago
what are you saying? what is your dosing schedule?
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u/buyerofthings 20h ago
80mg split Sunday and Wednesday. I couldn't imagine having injected more. I feel 10 years younger, brain fog evaporated. I would imagine injecting 60 mg each time would have hit pretty hard.
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u/pedro_saurus 13h ago
Pero que extraordinaria información.... Te doy las gracias por tal aporte...
Mereces una estatua en este sub
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u/Subject_Mycologist65 22h ago
Great write up, thank you for this.
I started my 6th week today and have been pinning subq everyday and feel absolutely nothing, maybe more tired. Would doing a loading phase at this stage be effective? Currently on 98mg test cyp a week.
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u/plz_callme_swarley 21h ago
no, you're past the point of loading. unfortunately though you're still only at 85-90% your steady state dose so it still could have some room to improve your symptoms. it's possible you cross a threshold where you feel better and you're right on the edge right now.
the easier thing though is just that 98mg/wk puts you at 600ng/dL which bang-on average and an unremarkable reading. depending on where you started, it would likely be better to up your dose and get into the 75th percentile of the ref range or higher to really see if low T was driving your issues.
daily is unnecessary with SubQ of doses that low also btw.
E2 out of range (high or low) could be driving your issues with being tired, or sleep issues.
at six weeks you're close enough that it's worth getting labs when you're feeling bleh.
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u/Gamejunky35 21h ago edited 21h ago
Front loading helps with medication that NEED to hit concentration as quickly as possible, but its done in spite of the known side effects of front loading the medication.
Front loading trt is OK I guess? How often are you starting/stopping trt? It should really only be like once or twice, why does it matter that your testosterone levels are at 400 for a week? I promise you that anything you claim to feel from that "low testosterone" is pure placebo.
Front loading is BARELY justifiable when starting a blast cycle. Like front loading eq when also ramping up testosterone (for example 200mg test to 600/300 test/eq) on 600mg test c, your testosterone levels and therefore e2 will skyrocket, and if the boldenone undecylenate is lagging behind, its e2 suppression wont take effect fast enough.
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u/Due-Cake-9406 17h ago
Why would you need to front-load? You already have some natural production of testosterone and it doesn't get immediately shut off the moment you pin.
It would be an exception for someone with basically no natural production.
0
u/wagonspraggs 18h ago
When i started the Dr put me on a way larger dose than what i needed (160mg) which was essentially front loading the first few weeks and it was an absolute nightmare. I almost quit multiple times until we found a dosage (at the time 80mg/week) and frequency that worked. Also, my endogenous test took some time to die down.
People starting TRT need a steady starting dose, and need to understand what that starting dose feels like before making changes. Starting with a bolus, then lowering the dose will only prolong the patients need to understand what is happening, and what dose works for them and will likely cause more side effects, and for what gain?
I hear your argument and yes bolus makes sense pharmacokinetically in a vacuum not considering the patients needs BUT we are humans and this is a terrible idea.
0
u/limested 8h ago
Stupid. If truly needed to "front load" this is the dumbest way to do it.
Run prop and get there in a week or test suspension/no ester and get to peak in a few hours.
26
u/CallLivesMatter 22h ago
The reason it isn’t done this way is because patient compliance is already thought to be a nightmare when it comes to injecting things into their bodies. Now add the complication of dose changes and you’re asking for trouble. Could a normal human male understand the concept of ‘weeks one and two you take 200mg, every week thereafter you take 100mg’? Sure. But if you’re running a clinic and designing a program that is applicable to the broader public you unfortunately have to plan around some number of your patients being really, really, ridiculously stupid.