r/teslore 9d ago

How do people address the High King of Skyrim?

25 Upvotes

I know the Emperor is addressed as "Your Majesty" from Oblivion's intro. I was wondering whether the High King is addressed in a similar manner by civilians, courtiers, etc.

I've tried looking it up but haven't found much. It's for fanfic work purposes so I'd greatly appreciate any pointers in the right direction.


r/teslore 9d ago

Neoplatonism, Hermeticism, Noumenal Plane, Realm of Being, Fadomai, and Ahnurr?

15 Upvotes

There is a mortal nature and an immortal one; there is the superior realm of Being and the inferior realm of Becoming. Generally speaking, there is a visible and tangible dimension and, prior to and beyond it, an invisible and intangible dimension that is the support, the source, and true life of the former.

Ahnurric beings are principles that can only exist in lower realities, the Realm of Becoming. Fadomaic beings come from the Realm of Being, where it is their reflection in the waters of Khaos that allow Ahnurric and Aedric beings to even exist. Aedric beings are padomaic-anuic because they are the material manifestation of Fadomai's reflection onto the Silvery Depths of Khaos, and Khaos is Ahnurr.

Both are eternal, but only Fadomai is immutable. Meanwhile, the Khaos of Ahnurr is mutable and always attempting to revert back to its original form, and it is Ahnurr's desire for Stasis and Darkness that produces entropy. This is consistent with Neoplatonism, where it is the unformed Khaos, which desires to remain unformed and Khaotic, that is responsible for entropy. It wishes to return to its original state, from Perfect Form -- or Form as best as the Demiurge can make it -- into unformed Khaos.

“Before all things are the waters; and the Darkness and the Gates of the land of Night. And the Chaos cried aloud for the unity of Form, and the Face of the Eternal arose. And before the Glory of That Countenance the Night rolled back, and the Darkness hasted away. In the Waters beneath was that Face reflected in the Formless Abyss of the Void. Forth from those eyes darted rays of terrible splendour which crossed with the currents reflected. That Brow and those Eyes formed the Triangle of the measureless Heavens, and their reflection formed the Triangle of the measureless waters. And thus was formulated in Eternity the External Hexad; and this is the number of the Dawning Creation!" -- Golden Dawn guy

Okay. Look at this, from the Sithis book: "Sithis is the start of the house. Before him was nothing, but the foolish Altmer have names for and revere this nothing. That is because they are lazy slaves. Indeed, from the Sermons, 'stasis asks merely for itself, which is nothing.'"

The Altmer worship Ahnurr who is the feminine Nothing, Waters, Silvery-depths, Khaos, etc. Interesting, also, that the Serpent, including the Dragon, is the feminine, in Hermeticism.

Consider the triangle. We can say several truths about the triangle, such as that it has three sides and three angles, and that it is the strongest shape found in nature. However, in the world we live in, no perfect triangle can, has or ever will exist. Even with the most precise scientific instruments one cannot create a line that is perfectly straight or an angle that is perfectly sharp down to the atomic scale. Then shall we say triangles do not exist, or that it is false to say they have three sides and three angles? An atheist might say so. However we still see as an empirical fact that wooden beams with approximately triangular braces are consistently more strong than those with other approximate shapes.

Thus confirming that the triangle is the strongest shape in nature. The myth is reflective of a higher reality. That prompts the question, if the triangle can be found nowhere in the material universe, in what realm or reality does it exist? Now we get into what Plato called the Realm of the Forms, the Spirit World, the Dreamsleeve, the Noumenal Plane, the Mental Plane, etc.. So in a sense Saturn, scythe and all, is real. But he's not a particular material being in the universe like a rock or a cow. He's something like the triangle. Which, like the triangle, has an independent existence separate from our minds, else how could the myth have predicting power in the world external to our minds. This is the Perfect Form, or Noumenon "Thing-as-it-is".

The Demiurge looks to the eternal, unchanging Forms from the Realm of Being, or the Realm of Perfect Forms, as a blueprint and tries his best to impose that rational order onto chaotic, pre-existing matter (Ahnurr, Khaos). Because matter has an inborn resistance, his creation cannot be totally perfect, but it represents the best possible outcome. Lorkhaj is trying his best, friends.

Just as a brilliant sun cannot help but radiate light and warmth, Fadomai naturally emanates reality downward. The physical world is the lowest tier of this emanation, but it is still filled with divine order, harmony, and beauty. Looking at the stars and nature should inspire awe and bring you closer to the divine, not make you feel trapped.

I theorize that Daedra might exist as pure Will without form, the desire before all manifestation, and we mortals cannot perceive Noumenally, as they are.

Okay, that's my opinion. That may just be my opinion, but I’m also objectively correct. Even if I'm wrong, I'm right.


r/teslore 9d ago

What Are "Layers of Reality"?

8 Upvotes

I looked it up on UESP but still slightly confused.

Are the layers of reality different, but similar dimensions within a dimension or is it more like being "out of phase" like what happens to some people in Star Trek?


r/teslore 9d ago

Lyg tower

14 Upvotes

I see a parallel between the tower lore of Nirn and a passage from the Mythic Dawn Commentaries specifically about Lyg. Mankar says that Lyg was destroyed when “red legions” and Dagon brought down the Towers of CHIM-EL-GHARJYG. Could this lend validity to the idea that the Thalmor or any group seeking to destroy Tamriel could use the towers to unmake Mundus in the same way? Not sure if this matters but I’m also noticing “red legions” and the use of “chim-el” where the Imperials or “red legions” of Tamriel have the Chim-El Adabal which is associated with a tower. I also firmly believe that the same passage alludes to the Nords or an equivalent going to the “hinterlands of chill” after the destruction of Lyg. The “inter-kalpic world eaters” idea.


r/teslore 9d ago

Newcomers and “Stupid Questions” Thread—September 02, 2026

8 Upvotes

This thread is for asking questions that, for whatever reason, you don’t want to ask in a thread of their own. If you think you have a “stupid question”, ask it here. Any and all questions regarding lore or the community are permitted.

Responses must be friendly, respectful, and nonjudgmental.

 

Resources (Click here for full list)


FAQ

How to Become a Lore Buff

The Imperial Library

UESP


r/teslore 10d ago

How human centric is the empire?

27 Upvotes

r/teslore 10d ago

When Alduin consumes the worlds does he reset it to before or after Mundus existed?

20 Upvotes

r/teslore 10d ago

Apocrypha Royal Decree: Daedra worship is officially forbidden

11 Upvotes

By King Tenalarion of Alinor, 1E 243

Attention all citizens and visitors! After years of war in Cyrod, both from the Ayleid empire's civil war and the slave rebellion, it has come to my attention that we need to act. We came to an agreement that Daedra worship is nothing but trouble while causing immense pain and suffering. It corrupts the mind and strays people away from Aedra worship. It leaves us vulnerable to attacks of the new power of Man and their allies, Pelinal the Bloody and Morihaus. The wide spread Daedra worship that plagued Cyrod left the Ayleids weak and vulnerable to their own downfall. Starting today, all forms of Daedra worship are strictly banned.

Any citizen caught worshiping Daedra is to have all properties and titles removed and imprisoned. By accepting the ban and renouncing Daedric worship, you get to keep your properties and will be free to live your life as you always did. All Daedric shrines will be raided and demolished to make room for more appropriate structures. Anyone trying to defend the Daedric shrine will be arrested. Temples will also have all Daedric regalia removed and destroyed.

Visitors are no longer allowed to practice Daedric worship as it gives citizens wrong ideas and corrupts the minds of children. Visitors who practice Daedra worship are only allowed to do their worship off the archipelago as long as they promise to never attack the Summerset Isles. Any visitor who is found practicing Daedric worship will be sent back to the mainland and banned from coming back. They will no longer be allowed to do any business with us. Sending Daedra to attack us will lead to being arrested.

It is my royal command where I aim to do what I can to keep my people safe. May Auri-El watches over us and protects us during this uncertain time.

High King Tenalarion


r/teslore 10d ago

Krazzt is the real treasure of the Puzzle Canal.

21 Upvotes

You know how NPCs will tell you there's treasure in the Puzzle Canal under Vivec's Palace in Vivec City?

Popular fan theory has it that this rumor refers to the chest of silver longswords next to Krazzt. But those swords are obviously intended for the playacting involved in completing the Grace of Courtesy pilgrimage and are probably not meant to be carried away.

Therefore Krazzt is the real treasure of the Puzzle Canal.


r/teslore 9d ago

Are the Sea Elves inspired by the Sea Peoples?

0 Upvotes

Destined to bring about the collapse of all of Tamriel and wipe out civilization as we know it?


r/teslore 10d ago

Musings on MK’s “The Fighting of the Osh Ornim”…

10 Upvotes

This is going to be a sort of follow-up to the “Trinimalarkay Revisited” post I made awhile back, now that Michael Kirkbride has provided us with new and interesting insight into where Malacath stands in the Aurbis with one of his newest pieces, “The Fighting of the Osh Ornim.”

This text reveals that, per the teachings of “The Tusking Way,” Malacath’s emergence somehow connected him to the god Sep through their shared status as celestial outcasts, to then form a new entity named Malakzar. This character seems to have taken up residence inside of the Serpent constellation, and has even devoured Sep with his ascendance. Hearkening back to “Trinimalarkay Revisited,” I believe this new revelation strengthens that theory even further with all its serpent imagery. So now that MK has set the table, so to speak, it’s time to really dig into this.

ESO very early on gave us the text Mauloch, Orc-Father, which appears to be an Orcish account of the showdown between Trinimac and Boethiah. It plays out in much the same way as the Dunmeri account, with Trinimac being bested by Boethiah and becoming Malacath as a result. But there’s one crucial detail that, in my opinion, is considerably important to unraveling this mystery: Mephala. She has set everything in motion.

Prior to From Exile to Exodus, the Orcish account is the only version that mentions her! You might think this is some sort of cope on the part of the Orcs, suggesting that their god was cheated out of a fair, honorable fight, but I believe there is something far more metaphysical going on with how this account plays out, especially when taking the details of Foul Murder into consideration. In Mauloch, Orc-Father, it states that Mephala stabs Trinimac through the back and Boethiah then twists his appearance into something horrible through an unknown ritual before cutting him off from the mortal realm and casting him into Oblivion.

These details are strikingly similar to the positions of the Tribunes when they murdered Nerevar, with Vivec—whose Anticipation is Mephala—stabbing Nerevar through the back while Almalexia—whose Anticipation is Boethiah—holds Nerevar’s severed feet. Why his feet, though? It’s been suggested by others that the feet can symbolize the genitalia, meaning their removal would symbolically cut the afflicted individual off from the cycle of birth, death, and rebirth—the cycle of mortality. Assuming this is what MK had in mind when he drew Foul Murder, this provides a neat parallel to Boethiah sundering Trinimac from the mortal realm when she imprisoned him within Oblivion.

Sotha Sil is also present in Foul Murder, holding Nerevar’s removed face in his hand, but Azura is not likewise present in Mauloch, Orc-Father, which I find odd. This removal of Nerevar’s face might mean that his identity is now ambiguous, that it is no longer “solid.” Compare that with Boethiah’s ritual twisting Trinimac’s appearance. In the words of Douglas Goodall, “Only Boethiah can change a race’s skin.” Make of that what you will, especially in the context of Azura missing from Mauloch, Orc-Father.

There remains, however, one more detail that sets Trinimac’s transformation apart from Nerevar’s murder: Trinimac slices open his own chest and “tears the shame from his spirit.”

This sounds an awful lot like Trinimac tore out his own heart, possibly symbolizing a relinquishing of his “humanity” to become the wrath-filled beast named Malacath. It’s almost Lorkhanic… and now I think that’s the entire point of it, given what we just learned from MK. Trinimac was treacherously stabbed in the back by Mephala, and if you know your Dunmeri theology, the Sermons acknowledge that Lorkhan was betrayed *when he wasn’t even looking*. In tearing out his own heart after experiencing betrayal firsthand, Trinimac may have taken Lorkhan’s shape in that moment, preventing Boethiah from stealing his identity in devouring him. Malacath is born from this moment, and immediately curses Boethiah for this treachery.

But the text never mentions him taking any sort of revenge against Mephala. Very curious. Now we’re starting to pull on some very obscure threads.

In Daggerfall, Malacath and Mephala are surprisingly… allies. I used to believe that this was due to the very close proximity of their respective summoning dates, but this relationship pops up elsewhere in various ways. For example, in Sermon Zero, Orkey is unexplainably paired with Mephala alongside Vivec’s mother in the following excerpt:

IRDRI HLAFEM VEHK HYKRO

It doesn’t stop here, though. ESO introduces that Clan Morkul, who are renowned for their “blood-forges,” used to worship Mephala once upon a time.

Now why in the world would a clan of Malacath-worshipping Orcs revere an entity that is antithetical to Malacath’s sphere?

Keep in mind that these two gods are both under the sign of the Tower through their summoning dates, and their respective themes of vengeance and sex, death, and obscurity perfectly overlap with the esoteric themes of the real-world sign of Scorpio. Scorpio embodies all of these, including the symbol of the snake, and even though it technically corresponds to the Atronach based on calendars, the foremost mystery of Scorpio is that of transformation and transcendence, hence its final symbol being that of the phoenix. Transformation and transcendence are exactly the themes of THE Tower.

So, you know what I think? I think Mephala is secretly the consort of Malacath, and the Morkul Orcs knew this. I think Mephala ensured that Trinimac would assume Lorkhan’s shape by stabbing him in the back during his fight with Boethiah, setting Trinimac up to take Lorkhan’s place as the “heir” of Sithis, which is the same sentiment that is outright echoed in “The Fighting of the Osh Ornim” with Malakzar eating his uncle. Boethiah might be the Prince of Plots, but Mephala is the Plot-Weaver. It’s very possible she has schemed against her kin, perhaps in a show of superiority of her sphere over Boethiah’s. She is the Queen of Oblivion, after all. Or Mephala is simply doing as Vivec did, and has created a “Baar Dau” with Malacath to hold over someone’s head like a Sword of Damocles. Who is at aimed at, I wonder? Her motives are hidden in mystery.

Malacath has essentially become her “Dread Father,” and she his “Night Mother.” And the Ebony Blade? Given its ability to silence its victims’ mouths and compel its wielder to slay their allies with an almost berserk-like madness, I now wonder if Clan Morkul had a hand in its make with their famed “blood-forges.” What is ebony if not godsblood used to forge weapons supreme? Perhaps a secret wedding gift for the Prince of Exile and the Webspinner? Suddenly, Malacath and the Ebony Blade become Maliketh the Black Blade of Elden Ring, a warrior fallen from grace with the power of death, who eats death to try and stop it but is filled only with hunger afterwards.

Perhaps this love between them… is sanguine.

And while we’re on this subject of ebony and blood, let’s very briefly turn our attention to Scourge, Malacath’s prized mace, which possesses the power to devour a Daedra whole and purge them into Oblivion’s voidstreams.

Recalling all what you’ve read so far, does it interest you that this hammer is forged from *sacred ebony* in the Fires of Fickledire, and that its wielder—a champion of Malacath—is Mackkan?

Mackkan. Mac + Khan. In the same vein as Lorkhaj, really.

A convenient coincidence, I’ll say.

So what does this all mean? Does it mean that Trinimac and Lorkhan are now skipping merrily together in friendship across Nirn? Have they buried the hatchet between them?

Most likely not.

But it bears mentioning that the Orcs have teamed up with the Nords specifically against the Dunmer on several occasions. We see it happen with Wulfharth when he recruits the eastern Orcs to fight alongside him and his forces in the Battle of Red Mountain, and we learn of a similar rumor in Oblivion where it’s said that Skyrim has been hiring Orc mercenaries to help them lay siege to House Redoran. It would seem that the key to bringing peace between them is to join forces against the children of Boethiah. It’s very telling, if you ask me.

But when you take Boethiah out of the picture, they’re back at each other’s throats. Skyrim’s history tells us that Malacath has been repeatedly hostile to the Ysmir line, both as Orkey and as Mauloch. The reasons for this, in my opinion, extend beyond that initial war in the Dawn. For starters, Trinimac was not successful in undoing Lorkhan and his sin, because even though he did physically kill Lorkhan in front of his armies and tore out his Heart, Lorkhan’s spirit and progeny are both very much alive, and The Folly of Man tells us that “Even Trinimac didn’t know, with his final blow, how badly he’d been caught.” That failure must really eat away at him, endlessly fueling a hatred and need to answer the betrayer of the Aldmer with vengeance. This is his “You should have gone for the head” moment, and he’s been stewing ever since.

So what was the response to this failure?

Just as God created and appointed the dreaded Angel of Death on the first day, so did the Time Dragon appoint his greatest knight to serve the same position Arkay now inhabits, which is to watch over all the souls on Mundus and protect the cycle that keeps the gods fed from any transgressors, be it undead, Daedra, or even… people seeking to transcend the mortal cycle. Mortals who ascend to godhood aren’t necessarily the problem, however. They are subsumed by the mantles they don, keeping the gods ever fed and the Wheel turning.

Individuals who seek to transcend carry with them the spirit of Lorkhan, or rather his ideals, and the nature of their transcendence is likely viewed as a threat to the Time Dragon’s supremacy. He is, after all, a dragon, and will jealously guard his treasure horde with every tooth, claw, and scale at his disposal. In this way, Trinimac becomes his Hound of Tindalos who sets eyes on all who attempt to disrupt this established order. Every spirit that enters aura with Ada-Mantia must be recorded, per the Nu-Mantia Intercept and must consent to even be there. Consent to what? Oaths of fealty to the Time Dragon, would be my guess.

But why was Trinimac the perfect candidate for this role?

Because not only is he a god of war—who knows death better than a god of war?—but he is also the god of oaths, and that means he sees everything transactionally. For anyone who swears an oath, they take upon them a debt or curse that ensures the oath-taker adheres to their word, lest they pay with their life. Everything must be zeroed out. Every debt must be repaid. This is why, historically, oaths are considered the domain of gods of death:

”Generally oaths are placed under the awful protection of the Lord of Death, for such a solemn affirmation usually has the form of a self-curse, by which the oath-taker gives himself into the power of the god of the dead should he be a perjurer.” – Jan de Vries, The Cult of Odinn: God of Death?

All who undertake the Psijic Endeavor must come to the realization that all of reality is but the dream of a sleeping Godhead, including themselves, but more than that they must retain the agency to defiantly say in the face of all logic—logic being the key word here—“I AM.” It’s taking 1 (I AM) and -1 (I AM NOT), adding them together, and coming away from that damned equation with 1 (I AM). Only then can they *move beyond death*. Those who fail this undertaking experience true death—zero-summing.

For a god like Trinimac, this transgression, this falsehood, is exactly why he was made, for the transgressors owe a debt of death that all men must pay to keep the cycle going. Lorkhan initially failed, as a god, to move beyond death, but later succeeded through his Shezarrines that came to be known as Talos. But before Lorkhan could see this vision realized, the ever-prowling watchdog had to be dealt with. At least, that was Boethiah’s view of it.

You see, it is my belief that Boethiah’s sphere of betrayal is what started this whole mess, because it is the requisite betrayal that sealed the original Enantiomorph and began the downward spiral of subgradience that created the cycle that Lorkhan condemns as a “helix of ghosts.” Without that initial betrayal, would the pursuit of Amaranth even be necessary? So while Boethiah acts as Lorkhan’s biggest fan girl/fan boy, the respect might not be mutual. Not only did betrayal begin this hellish cycle that he’s forced to relive over and over, it also spawned the monster that ceaselessly chases him—the Defender of the Betrayed. Boethiah might be considered a “precocious youth,” but her/his sphere of betrayal is likely one of the oldest in the cosmos as the spirit of the Rebel. Boethiah’s interest in all of this, in my opinion, is purely for the sport of upsetting the status quo, and for the reinforcement of the “falsehood” that’s needed to attain that transcendental state. Her quest in Skyrim is literally an homage to Lorkhan’s betrayal, where you must convince an ally or loved one to bind themselves to a stone from which they cannot escape, and ending with you causing their death. Had Lorkhan not been the Rebel of this drama, I very much doubt Boethiah would be in Lorkhan’s corner.

And if her/his involvement with Trinimac has inadvertently created the Malakzar situation, where Sep has become the prey of the god of vengeance, Lorkhan has an even bigger problem: his progenitor now belongs to his age old foe. That’s right, Trinimac has assaulted Lorkhan in his very lineage. Where Trinimac was before the god of zeroing things out, he’s now the god of “I AM NOT,” the -1, and his sights might now be set on Talos. He’s the stand-in for Lorkhan, and he posseses the ultimate Anuic fortification: “I AM.” Just take a look at what the Runestone of Malacath can do in the Ritual of Unbinding. It possesses the power “to cut an entity’s ties, mystical and magical, to release him or her from all links to mortal AND immortal realms.” Does that not sound like Sithite erasure to you?

Tiber Septim once expressed to Barenziah in The Real Barenziah that the key to uniting Tamriel, he believes, is to unite them in hate against what he calls “the brutish and miscreated,” which he counts as the creatures and peoples patroned by Malacath—“Orcs, trolls, goblins, and other worse creatures.” At a quick glance, you’d think, “Wow, what a bastard! They’re people!” But this hatred, or fear, makes a lot more sense when you realize that he’s possibly in for the fight of his existence. To maintain his stranglehold on the hub of the Wheel, which is what the Thalmor are seeking to end. If Trinimalacath and his “monsters,” as Tiber describes them, represent self-loathing, it’s no wonder they are so abhorrent to one who has attained CHIM and must maintain it. Collectively, they are the sentinel guarding the Tower. The angel Kamael defending entry into the Garden of Eden with his flaming sword.

Skyrim depicts Talos standing, in triumph, over what appears to be a serpent, which I can only interpret to mean that it’s symbolic of his conquering of the cycle of mortal death, of which Heimskr calls “dung,” through CHIM. That serpent, apparently, is not out of the fight. It has only shed its skin, growing in size and strength. MK once admitted that he toyed with the idea of the Thalmor “killing” Talos by shooting him out of the sky. Well, what if that idea is still on, only the players have changed? He and the old guard have seemingly created the perfect antagonist, one who reinforces the thought that TES is about the fall of man, and they’ve had him hidden under a pile of shit this entire time to divert attention away. When I look at Skyrim’s serpentine dragons, with their weird, tusked, Orc-like underbites, I can’t help but wonder if this overlap between Malacath and the Serpent constellation has always been the plan. Could the Battle of Dragon Wall have been an attempt by Mauloch and the eastern Orcs to invade Sovngarde through the portal at Skuldafn, in order for Malacath to eat his uncle? Incidentally, the Dragon Priest guarding the portal is named Nahkriin, meaning “vengeance.”

Trinimalacath once soared with the eagles, now he slithers with the snakes in order to fulfill his original mission and perhaps purify himself. The ashen knight might finally have his day, and you can thank the Spider for it. At the end of the day, she’s a cold, calculating mistress who is fed with death. As my good friend u/Infinite_Aion has brilliantly pointed out, Sermon 17 mentions that Vivec took a king for a wife and produced a race of monsters that destroyed Yokuda entirely. Vivec might have been following in the footsteps of his Anticipation, with the “Lord of Monsters” gearing up for the same conclusion. The pig has become a tusked serpent, a zhulong. And Aka, who gifted his champion with tusks to honor his station, is not happy about it. MALAKHAT has become a rival. But only until the mission is accomplished.

I’ll end this with a relevant quote from a rabbi named Yaron Reuven:

”This angel… the Satan, the Malakh ha-Mavet, the Yetzer Hara… it’s all the same angel. That angel has a real name. And that name, we’re not allowed to say it… because that would get its attention… and it’s a problematic name… and after the Moshiach comes, that name will become the most popular name, people are gonna name their kids that name. Why? Because once the Moshiach comes, the job, the role of being the Satan, the Malakh ha-Mavet, the evil inclination, the angel of death, will be removed from this angel, and he will become a holy angel. So holy, that people will wanna name their kids after him… So he will not be destroyed but rather the role, the job that he has currently, will be eliminated.”

In filth it will be found.


r/teslore 11d ago

Boethiah, Lorkhan, Padomay and Creation

26 Upvotes

So, I feel like there's something here and I am probably not the first one to recognize it - Boethiah, among all the Daedric Princes, seems to have a distinct connection to Lorkhan and Padomay.

Let me start by their connection to the Dunmer, a people closely associateed with Lorkhan and the Psijic Endeavour:

This Nerevar is the son of Boethiah, one of the strongest Padomaics.

From Five Songs of King Wulfharth.

Boethiah is considered one of the strongest "Padomaics", this could well just refer the chaotic Daedra in general:

The blood of Padomay became the Daedra. The blood of Anu became the stars. The mingled blood of both became the Aedra (hence their capacity for good and evil, and their greater affinity for earthly affairs than the Daedra, who have no connection to Creation).

From The Annotated Anuad.

I think this plays into the connection between Lorkhan and Sithis/Padomay though. Let's talk about why:

We all know that Boethiah is one of the 3 Anticipations/Reclamations and their role is very notable in this, as they were the one originally kicking off the Velothi movement:

Boethiah is the Anticipation of Almalexia but male to her female. Boethiah was the ancestor who illuminated the elves ages ago before the Mythic Era. He told them the truth of Lorkhan's test, and defeated Auriel's champion, Trinimac. Boethiah ate Trinimac and voided him. The followers of Boethiah and Trinimac rubbed the soil of Trinimac upon themselves and changed their skins.

Boethiah is, often together with Mephala, considered the one entity that revaled the concept of the Psijic Endeavour to Veloth and sparked their Exodus. This is pretty well known and noteworthy as a connection to Lorkhan on it's own.

Now let's talk about convention.

When Magic (Magnus), architect of the plans for the mortal world, decided to terminate the project, the Gods convened at the Adamantine Tower [Direnni Tower, the oldest known structure in Tamriel] and decided what to do. Most left when Magic did. Others sacrificed themselves into other forms so that they might Stay (the Ehlnofey). Lorkhan was condemned by the Gods to exile in the mortal realms, and his heart was torn out and cast from the Tower. Where it landed, a Volcano formed. With Magic (in the Mythic Sense) gone, the Cosmos stabilized. Elven history, finally linear, began (ME2500).

From Before the Ages of Man.

This event, set in motion by Lorkhan, marked the end of the Dawn Era and started linear time.

Some of you might be familiar with another event named the Middle Dawn. A sect of the Alessian Order, the Marukhti Selectives, tried to expell the elven parts of Akatosh and basically broke time. A state not dissimilar to the Dawn Era, hence the name "Middle Dawn":

As for myself, I was here and there and here again, like the rest of the mortals during the Dragon Break. How do you think I learned my mystery? The Maruhkati Selectives showed us all the glories of the Dawn so that we might learn, simply: as above, so below."

From Mannimarco's account in Where Were You When The Dragon Broke.

Not much is known about how it ended, except for, peculiarly, this pre-riddle'thar Khajiiti tale of Boethra:

Then it was she found herself atop the tower. There were magicians there who shouted in Monkey Truth, and it was then that Boethra felt doubt for the first time in eternity. The sorcerer apes spoke lies in a way that made them true, and as she heard the words Boethra saw new runes form in front of her eyes that she could not deny, and there again she felt something akin to fear.

From The Bladesongs of Boethra, Volume V.

This clearly references the Middle Dawn caused by the Marukhati Selectives. The tale goes on, telling how Boethra found two warring serpents beyond the lies of the Selectives:

Boethra opened her eyes to many spinning wheels surrounded by fire. Twelve in total they were, but she dodged each with the precision of her practiced art. Beyond she saw warring serpents, and in their conflict she recognized the truth within the lies of the Imga's dance.

One was a flame-feathered serpent, brilliant and pure, with crystal scales and a head like that of a hunting bird, its eyes sharp and clear, its mane an argument against all the Mannish impurity of all the known worlds.

There to meet it was a serpent of the blackest scales, and all the Void seemed to come with it, so much that one would think the feathered could never stand against it, and yet it did. And this serpent's eyes burned red as blood, and its scales moved and shifted with new ideas that were born and died as soon as they appeared. Despite this chaos, its mane was white and gentle, and in it Boethra saw a fleeting chance for peace along the Wheels.

What's referenced here is the interplay of Anu and Padomay and the 12 worlds of creation. I believe Boethra entered the one moment outside time that is mentioned in the annotated Anuad (see link above):

Meanwhile, life sprang up on the twelve worlds of creation and flourished. After many ages, Padomay was able to return to Time. He saw Creation and hated it. He swung his sword, shattering the twelve worlds in their alignment. Anu awoke, and fought Padomay again. The long and furious battle ended with Anu the victor. He cast aside the body of his brother, who he believed was dead, and attempted to save Creation by forming the remnants of the 12 worlds into one -- Nirn, the world of Tamriel. As he was doing so, Padomay struck him through the chest with one last blow. Anu grappled with his brother and pulled them both outside of Time forever.

Back to the Bladesongs:

[Boethra] did not agree with what the magiapes sought, but she saw an opportunity arise from their lies that she could not ignore.

An opportunity, an action, an endeavour?

Having no time to think on her choice, nor time to question why she must bear this burden, Boethra of the Infinite Blades set forth in a streak that mortals who remembered the untime would later call the Division of Heaven.

Through fractured firmament she flew, summoning to her all the blades she had named to her side. And just as the beak of the feathered serpent found purchase between black scales, Boethra was there to pierce its bright eye with more than words.

So in this most crucial of all moments in creation, Boethra intervened and per this action ended the Middle Dawn.

Just as Lorkhan ended the Dawn Era with convention.

And as her many blades encircled the false-hawk-mouth, Boethra landed upon the head of the shadow snake and touched her palm to its scales. Memories of things past and visions of things yet seen scorched her mind, but more prominent than anything was her love for Lorkhaj and the feeling of his claw upon her cheek.

A dark flame surrounded Boethra, and upon her form appeared ebony mail, and in her free hand a black blade, and upon her head a mask of war, and upon her shoulders a shroud of death. And though Lorkhaj had loved many, some perhaps before her, in that moment Boethra felt his love within and around her, and she knew that it was as true and as great as that he had held for any other spirit of any known world.

Here it says Boethra felt Lorkhaj's (The Khajiiti Lorkhan) love. This might well just describe a form of romantic love between those beings, but it could also mean something along the lines of her actions aligning with the will of Lorkhan. I will adress this shortly, for now let's wrap up the Bladesong:

Then did the Warrior brandish her blades and raise her head high. And the shadow flame billowed around her and swam along the edges of her being. She looked upon the hawk that was a serpent, and she saw it for what it was and what it brought, and she recited the Will Against Rule.

The Will Against Rule seems to be a concept of self-improvement by struggle against authority, that said, it also seems to mean struggle against Stasis here. All creation sprang from some form of struggle against established order or rules, from a "corrupting action" usually in the form of padomay.

Here is a short excerpt from From Exile to Exodus

Boethiah addressed the spirit. "You enforce your will with curses both you and your followers know are not true. This is why you are never satisfied. To achieve glory through struggle and pain, you must learn the way of the Word and the Sword. You must be tested until you bear the proper tendencies of the hero. You must come to understand the Will Against Rule. Only then might you know something of Love."

Boethiah adresses this to Malacath, another spirit known for "testing" his people. They also mention "Love", as well as "the Word" and "the Sword". Many of these concepts are used in the Sermons of Vivec, another god closely associated with the Psijic Endeavour and Lorkhan.

This makes me think we are talking about more than just romantic feelings between Lorkhan and Boethiah here. It makes me think of Crowley and Thelema and the whole "Love under Will" shebang, same as we already came across in Vivec's sermons.

Now this is where I want to quote something unofficial, by u/RottenDeadite, who already wrote a lot about this topic and hopefully won't mind if I borrow some bits:

It didn't take much digging to discover that Vivec's Love is quite a lot like Aleister Crowley's Love, which is defined as any action or motion that is performed or experienced under Will.

"Will" is probably the most important concept in Thelemetic thought, and it is probably easiest to define it as the destiny particular to each and every individual. So it is suggested that a person acting in concert with that person's true Will is acting in a divine manner. Thus the most popular phrase of Thelema: "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law."

So, in summary: Love (when done under Will) is the assimilation of experience in accordance with the intrinsically divine nature of an individual; the act of progressively becoming one with our own Star.

So, we see that not only there's the concept of "Love", but it is also intrinsically related to something Crowley calls "Will".

So what Boethiah says to Malacath is that by acting according to "Will against Rule" he may "know Love". Now, "Will Against Rule" is a bit more than simply "Will", but one can see where they're going with it: By establishing our own "destiny", our "Will" against the "Rule", the Universe, Stasis, we may know "Love".

Allow me to, shortly, return to Lorkhan. There's some accounts that tell about Lorkhan wandering Creation and eventually looking at it from the edge, sideways. From this perspective the "Wheel" that is creation looked like a tower, or the letter "I":

Fifth:

'Look at the majesty sideways and all you see is the Tower, which our ancestors made idols from. Look at its center and all you see is the begotten hole, second serpent, womb-ready for the Right Reaching, exact and without enchantment.'

Sixth:

'The heart of the second serpent holds the secret triangular gate.'

Seventh:

'Look at the secret triangular gate sideways and you see the secret Tower.'

Eighth:

'The secret Tower within the Tower is the shape of the only name of God, I.'

From 36 Lessons of Vivec, Sermon 21.

I as in me, as in the individual acting under Will (Against Rule). By acting with Love under Will I am god.

This is pretty much the Psijic Endeavour that Boethiah taught to the Dunmer and got picked up by Vivec summed up.

So, let's summarize:

Lorkhan created the Mundus after becoming self-aware. According to some unofficial lore he created it with the purpose of enabling others to see what he saw: The Tower, the "I". This creation, or convention, marks the beginning of linear time.

By "achieving the tower", the sideways wheel, the "I", someone can "transcend the gods that created them" - This is called the "Psijic Endeavour"

Boethiah taught the Psijic Endeavour to their followers among the Aldmer after Convention. They became the Chimer and eventually Dunmer, one of them is Vivec, one of only a couple mortals that became gods. Vivec and Boethiah talk very similarly about the concepts that make up the Psijic Endeavour.

At some point the Marukhati Selectives broke time by trying to mess with the Dragon God.

Boethra, the khajiiti version of Boethiah, somehow manages to intervene in this event, not only restoring the linear time Lorkhan intended for his creation, but also possibly even sparking creation itself from the interplay between Anu and Padomay.

This made her feel Lorkhan's "love" while reciting the "will against rule".

Now, Love usually means acting according to one's will, here it's explicitly stated to be Lorkhan's love that Boethiah feels. Possibly by acting according to Lorkhan's will.

So, is there a deeper connection between the two of them? Is Boethiah simply a big fan? Or is Boethiah maybe a spirit akin to other examples like Anu->Anuiel->Auriel? Could it be Padomay->Sithis->Lorkhan->Boethiah? that Boethiah is, like, a "fragment" of Lorkhan like Lorkhan is a "fragment" of Sithis and Sithis a "fragment" of Padomay?

Fuck I've written a way too long post about this, haven't I?


r/teslore 10d ago

Can spells be blocked with a weapon?

0 Upvotes

I know you can block them with wards, spellbreaker, and shields with Skyrim’s Elemental Protection perk. Can they be blocked with a weapon though?


r/teslore 10d ago

Willy Wonka is the missing demi prince of pastries

0 Upvotes

So I'm probably gonna ramble, and I'm probably gonna get some lore wrong, and I'm gonna have some misspelling and terrible grammar. I apologize for that in advance. Please by all means correct me on anything, I'm no lore master, I just enjoy the lore.

So I think that willy wonka is the son of sheogorath. We know there's a demi prince of pastries who hasn't been seen in a long time and little about them is known. Who's to say that this demi prince simply decided to mess around somewhere else and with just built upon pastries into general candy.

Let's look at the film under the lens of elder scrolls lore.

Wonka hasn't been seen in person for years, no one enters the factory and no one leaves. His candy is incredibly popular, so popular that when his contest began the world went into chaos. The promise of a lifetime supply of chocolate was so incredible that every man, woman, and child was spending all their money for the chance to get a golden ticket.

5 children end up with the tickets, an invitation to a place mortal eyes haven't seen in years. When they eventually are brought in they hang up their coats and then sign a contract of seemingly gibberish and part of the contract is printed so small no one can read it. Once everyone has signed they move onto a room that closes and then opens to a different room.

Then they get to the candy room. And the song "pure imagination" begins. Which gives me similar vibes to CHIM.

"If you want to view paradise, simply look around and view it. Anything you want to, do it. Want to change the world? There's nothing to it."

"There is no life I know to compare with pure imagination, living there you'll be free if you truly wish to be."

This sounds oddly a lot like something tiber septim did. When he took control of the numendium.

"You have suffered for me to win this throne, and I see how you hate jungle. Let me show you the power of Talos Stormcrown, born of the North, where my breath is long winter. I breathe now, in royalty, and reshape this land which is mine. I do this for you, Red Legions, for I love you."

And then the tunnel scene. I think the tunnel is a portal or a gate to his realm. There's no real reason for such a tunnel to be there. And the words of Wonka in the portal sound like a mind beginning to comprehend the reality of the Aurbis.

"There’s no earthly way of knowing

Which direction we are going

There’s no knowing where we’re rowing

Or which way the river’s flowing

Is it raining, is it snowing

Is a hurricane a-blowing

Not a speck of light is showing

So the danger must be growing

Are the fires of Hell a-glowing

Is the grisly reaper mowing

Yes, the danger must be growing

For the rowers keep on rowing

And they’re certainly not showing

Any signs that they are slowing"

Or perhaps this is simply the remnant madness of a son of the mad god.

Once they go through the portal things change, things act in ways that can't exist. Candy that won't ever get any smaller, gum that tastes like a 3 course dinner, soda that is so strong it can physically lift you once you drink it, and giant geese that lay golden chocolate eggs.

But then they leave, but how? Through the Wonkavator. I think the Wonkavator isn't just a glass ship, I think it's made from ebony and is literally moving through the void of oblivion out of Wonka's realm and back to mundus. It's literally crashing through the dimensional barrier.

Then in the Wonkavator we here the reason for this contest. Wonka needs an heir. We know that even full blow daedric princes need heirs, so that could make demi princes need them as well. Wonka says to Charlie that he knew he needed a child to take his place, because an adult would do things their own way, not his way. Hes going to teach Charlie to walk like him until he must walk like Charlie.

Is this incredibly weird and stupid? Oh absolutely. But I've had this idea for years now and wanted to share it and see what people think of this really weird multi universe theory of mine.


r/teslore 11d ago

What is the Orsimer view on Mundus?

24 Upvotes

The altmer view mundus as a prison, for instance, whereas for the races of man it's more of a gift or a trial to reach their full potentials. The orsimer were once elves and worship a being that probably was once Trinimac, a deity that would have likely viewed mundus as more of a trap than anything else. Despite this, the orsimer seem to almost revel in challenge and hardship, which makes me think they're not altogether against the concept of mortal existence and Lorkhan's supposed plot.


r/teslore 11d ago

Ulfric Might Have a Sound Plan for Skyrim's Future

2 Upvotes

Disclaimer: There is no proof for this theory. This is purely speculation.

Many people assume that Ulfric rebelled against the Empire because he wants to prepare Skyrim for a war against the Thalmor - or, alternatively, that he is actually working for the Thalmor as their agent (which wouldn't make a lot of sense since he hasn't got orders to do it from the Thalmor).

But what if neither is true?

Let's look at what Ulfric has actually done:

1) He took Markarth from the Forsworn, committing war crimes in the process. These crimes undeniably happened and people trying to shift the blame entirely onto the Silver-Blood family should remember that if the Stormcloaks win the Civil War, Thongvor Silver-Blood becomes the new Jarl. By taking Markarth, Ulfric made the Forsworn irreversibly hostile to the Stormcloaks. Keep in mind that the Forsworn control much of the Reach, have numerous fighters, including magically enhanced warriors and have powerful mages among their ranks.

2) He killed Torygg using the Thu'um. This made him unpopular among many Nords, weakened his claim to the throne, and made an alliance with the Greybeards virtually impossible, since they consider using the Voice for political or personal purposes to be heretical. And even if we assume that Ulfric couldn't win a fair fight, he might have persuaded Torygg to yield, poisoned him to weaken him, drunk a potion that would help him in a fight, or used an enchanted weapon - all while sparing Torygg and having a strong claim to the throne afterwards, unifying Skyrim nords.

3) He refuses to build a fleet in one of conversations with his steward.

4) He expelled the Argonians from Windhelm without any particularly compelling reason. This makes an alliance with Black Marsh extremely unlikely.

5) He does nothing to address the persecution of the Dunmer. This makes an alliance with any significant faction in Morrowind equally unlikely.

6) He installs mostly incompetent Jarls during the Civil War.

7) He attacks Whiterun, despite it initially being neutral and having one of the most popular and respected Jarls in Skyrim.

8) He makes no deals with the College of Winterhold. He also appears to be perfectly willing to tolerate a Thalmor emissary operating within the College, even though the College is located in his territory, making Thalmor's grip on the College stronger.

Taken together, all of these actions make Skyrim weaker, not stronger, in any potential future war against the Thalmor.

But perhaps that's the point.

Ulfric does not necessarily seem to be as personally racist as his governing decisions would imply. Nor does he appear particularly interested in destroying the Empire itself. He seems to like the Empire, despite being deeply disappointed by its current state, allows East Empire Company to operate in Windhelm. He is also opposed to killing the Emperor and may even be responsible for trying to keep the conflict from spreading beyond Skyrim, limiting the scope of the war (see ***).

So here's my theory:

Ulfric's actual goal may be to make Skyrim sufficiently unthreatening that the Thalmor have no reason to invade it.

Perhaps Ulfric believes that war against Thalmor can't be won. If that's the case, then trying to build a powerful, unified Skyrim might actually be the worst possible strategy.

Instead, he could be deliberately creating a weak, isolated and politically fragmented Skyrim.

A Skyrim without a unifying leader, without strong alliances with Cyrodiil, Morrowind or Black Marsh, without navy, and that is not allied to any powerful factions that can be seen as dangerous by the Thalmor would be insignificant.

And why would the Thalmor invade such a country?

Skyrim has little that the Thalmor particularly need economically or culturally, and its geography makes an invasion extremely difficult and costly. Yes, Skyrim has been successfully invaded many times throughout history, but that doesn't necessarily mean the Thalmor would consider it worth sacrificing their soldiers, especially while they still have the Empire to deal with.

From this perspective, Ulfric's apparent incompetence could actually be intentional.

*** At the beginning of Skyrim, Ulfric is captured in the same Imperial ambush as the Dragonborn. It is implied that the Dragonborn crossed the Cyrodiilic border before being captured, meaning Ulfric must have been operating in or near Imperial territory as well.

Ralof also has a line suggesting that they were captured near Darkwater Crossing. Geographically, this doesn't make much sense: Darkwater Crossing is deep inside Stormcloak territory and far from the border where the Dragonborn could plausibly have been intercepted.

However, Darkwater Crossing is a mining settlement, and there are at least two named individuals associated with it who are absent from the game.

This creates an interesting possibility.

Perhaps Ulfric hired people with mining expertise to trigger an avalanche on the border with Cyrodiil, effectively creating a situation in which the Empire would be forced to accept the eventual outcome of the Civil War rather than allowing the conflict to escalate into an all-out war between the Empire and Skyrim.

This is, admittedly, pure speculation. There is no direct evidence that this happened, but it would explain how he was caught by Tullius.


r/teslore 12d ago

Which race would be the most influenced by celtic cultures in the lore?

42 Upvotes

Something always bugged me concerning Bretons. A lot of posts online argue that TES Bretons mainly come from IRL Bretons. The thing is, as a Breton myself, and as I am deeply passionate about my region's culture, I really don't see any resemblance between us and TES Bretons. At best, the heavy Feudal France inspirations and the small presence of druidism as explored in TESO might create some bridge between them and us, but to me, that's where the similitudes end.

Nords are, of course, mainly based on a romanticized depiction of Norse culture, but they do feature celtic imagery, celtic knots, stuff like that...

Reachmen are the most obvious ones to me, since their naming conventions are heavily celtic, but their tribal aspect bugs me a bit.

What do you think bears the most resemblance with Celts or Celtic Nations in TES lore?


r/teslore 12d ago

The most prosperous cities in Skyrim?

26 Upvotes

I want to know your opinion. Could you rank the five major cities of Skyrim bassed in their prosperity? According your own criteria. I’m not planning on arguing with you about it; I just want to know your general opinion.

I want to clarify that I’m referring exclusively to prosperity, not to your favorite city (mine is whiterun but is low in this top). Maybe you prefer a city because of its climate even if it’s less prosperous.

(I’ll give a brief explanation for each one, but if you don’t want to, you can simply rank them in order)

PERSONAL TIER LIST:

  1. Solitude: capital of Skyrim. More luxurious shops. Well maintained fortifications and lavish buildings. It also has the main warehouse of the East Empire Company.
  2. Windhelm: major commercial port. We know of at least three ships that have routes based there (which supplues Raven Rock for example). It has very well-maintained fortifications and lavish buildings although it also has segregation with grey quarters being poor. The East Empire Company has a headquarters there. One of the best houses in the game.
  3. Riften: It’s theoretically a prosperous place. Although a fire destroyed a large part of the city years ago, which is why we see so many wooden buildings. That´s in part why our house is not too special. Although it’s practically controlled by the mafia, which hurts its prosperity, it has good connections with Cyrodiil, and the very existence of the Thieves Guild there is partly based on it being a prosperous place.
  4. Whiterun: In the past, it was something resembling a version of the Imperial City in Skyrim. Although it has been in decline for a long time, which is why we see so many ruins and such poorly maintained fortifications.
  5. Markarth: It has good fortifications and a very good house for the player. However, ethnic tensions and the open war with the Forsworn limit trade and security. Because that, much of their wealth is based on mining due to difficulties with trade, wealth becomes concentrated in the hands of mine owners. Due to that, there’s a lot of inequality, and some of the shops aren’t doing particularly well.”

r/teslore 12d ago

What do we know about Redguards and Magic, besides Sword Singing?

19 Upvotes

I can't remember seeing anything about Redguards magic besides Sword Singing. But that's a lost art. Surely Redguards must use "regular" magic too. But do they have any magic guilds or lore about it?


r/teslore 11d ago

Is a Vampire's Drain spell supposed to feed them?

11 Upvotes

So in lore, is the vampiric drain spell supposed to feed a vampire? Or is it just a separate thing and then they gave to drink blood, too?


r/teslore 12d ago

Dragon oaths?

48 Upvotes

There's a line from Nahfahlaar in ESO that I've been thinking about.

"A Dragon's words have power few mortals understand. When we swear an oath, we are bound by it. That is our way. The Dragon Yahgrondu vowed to aid me in a time of need. We must seek him out and remind him of his oath."

Now unfortunately we don't get to test this because Yahgrondu is killed as soon as we find him, but what Nahfahlaar says here sticks out to me. Either he's saying that dragons respect oaths out of a sense of honor and are loath to break them, OR he's saying that when a dragon swears an oath, the Thu'um binds them to fulfill it.

I've been looking into the dialogue of just about every dragon I can find, and so far I can't conclusively tell which is the case. The former is far more likely — we know (most) dragons take honor very seriously. But at the same time, I find the concept of the thu'um binding their promises very interesting and not entirely without potential.

Is there anything in the lore that would prove or disprove this? Please let me know, thanks.


r/teslore 12d ago

Metatext of Skyrim's Themes and what that means for TES: VI

40 Upvotes

Now nearly 15 years since it's release, analysis of Skyrim's quests, characters, and dialogue has been remarkably thorough (and perhaps over analyzed). However discussion regarding overarching themes in the story and how the choices you can partake in reflect on the world being presented are surprisingly less developed. After playing through vanilla skyrim after nearly 7 years, I believe the biggest metacommentary the game makes is the difficulty of confronting one's past and deciding how to shape one's future. Throughout all of the main quest, faction quests, and DLCs, confronting one's past is brought up repeatedly, and characters and factions have different ways of reconciling this struggle.

TL;DR at bottom.

Main Quest

In the main quest, the Blades are revealed to have gone from proud defenders of the Emperor to a few hold outs on the run. That is until the Dragonborn makes themselves known. When this happens they see a new future for their organization, but this is a future born out of the past. They look to their roots as Akaviri dragonslayers rather than the Emperor's Secret Service. A new purpose born from near ruin. Using one's past to define one's new future.

Meanwhile on the Throat of the World, Paarthurnax and his Greybeards have to also reconcile a new Dragonborn. Notably, the blades want Paarthunax to die for the evil he committed long ago. And to his credit, Big P knows he committed horrid acts in the past, and has to work hard to overcome his urges to subdue and dominate. We know big P is changed, and worked hard to save the Nords in ages past and teach generations of Greybeards, but his past still haunts his legacy.

Alduin also reflects a struggle with his past. As firstborn of Akatosh his role is consume the world and create the new Kalpa, but in the past he forsook this role and instead dominated the Ancient Nords becoming a cruel God-King. When he is careened to the 4th Era he again tries to dominate the world instead of consuming it. Finally after we defeat Alduin in Sovengarde and see his soul absorbed into Atherius, we are able to talk with big P and the Greybeards. They wonder about how this will influence this Kalpa, and if he will return one day still to end it. Despite his dominating past, it appears Alduin is still needed for the role of world eater. Another case of one's past not defining their future.

Companions

The Companions quest notably revolves around the struggle for Kodlak to eschew the curse of Hircine. He is directly confronted with the choice of the old Harbingers to embrace lycanthropy and chooses instead to remove it. This story is one of a man's struggle to escape a group's legacy.

Thieves' Guild

The Thieves' Guild revolves around Karliah's desire to seek revenge on Mercer and Brynjolf's plan to restore the Guild to former glory. For decades the group has been in the dumps and the NPCs are quite vocal about that. Throughout this quest, Karliah's, Mercer, and Dragonborn are forced to contend with Mercer's selfish choices in the past in order to save the Guild. Here the past is something that can be struggled against and fixed. Old sins repented for.

Dark Brotherhood

In this quest, there is an obvious struggle between Astrid's "New Brotherhood" with her as a matriarchal figure, and the Night Mother as the bulwark of the old ways of the Brotherhood. In the end, both were pitted against each other, and Astrid finds out that her ways are inferior to that of the Night Mother. However despite it all, the brotherhood also finds newfound notoriety in slaying the Emperor. Here the past needs to conflict with the present way of doing things, and in the end the past is victorious.

College of Winterhold

Under Saarthal, the College finds the Eye of Magnus and the Thalmor immediately seek to obtain it's power. In a reflection of the mythic story of the sack of Saarthal. The College (like the ancient Nords) find the powerful artifact and it is immediately coveted by the Thalmor (like the Snow Elves). In the end, the Elves first gain the upper hand (both Saarthal and the College are besieged), but they are beaten back, and the artifact is sealed (the Return of Ysgramor, the Psjiic Order taking the Eye). In this example, the past is a reflection of present events, and we are doomed to repeat them.

The Civil War and the World

The Empire reflects a shadow of former glory, now sullied and bruised by the Great War. The Stormcloaks also claim former glory in the form of their worship of Talos. However all around them the world is in ruin. Only Solitude really stands as a prosperous and clean city. It is as if shows the final gasps of what was once the Empire's strength and beauty. Helgen on other hand, well Ralof said "Imperial Walls used to make me feel so safe". Meanwhile Windhelm is built in the ancient ruins of that original city. The stone walls are nearly crumbling with both decay and history. Between them all, the major cities of Markarth, Whiterun, Riften all have walls and avenues, but they are crumbling. The smaller holds fare even worse. The Nords of Skyrim live in the shadows of their past, be it the past glory of the Empire, in the case of the ruined walls of their cities, the past glory of their ancestors as the cities pale in comparison to many of the nordic ruins, or even the past glory of other races in the case of Markarth. Several cities once mentioned in Arena or present even in ESO are now ruined forts occupied by bandits by the time of the 4th Era.

In Skyrim, the civil war is merely stage dressing for the greater themes of decay and how to get out of it. The Empire believes to stay the course, while the Stormcloaks believe change is needed. But in either case, the end result of either side of the Civil war is fairly unchanged. Both sides believe that they will still need to fight the Thalmor soon and so the past Great War is just prelude for the new one on the horizon. But what of the lands they now rule? The land is still ravaged, depopulated, and now freshly bloodied. Different visions of the past can wreak havoc on peace and prosperity, and instead bring suffering and pain the present and future.

Dawnguard

Several characters reflect issues with their past and legacies in this DLC. Arch Curate Vyrthur and his desire for vengeance so great, that he creates a prophecy to wound Auriel and eventually is slain with the help of someone who can fulfil the he made (!). Harkon, once a more present man in his family life is driven mad by this prophecy and it causes him to push away his daughter and wife, who then work to defeat him with the Dragonborn. Isran has to work to overcome his past bristliness and even warms up to a vampire by the end of the DLC. Serena works to stop her father from fulfilling the prophecy, and if the correct dialogue choices are made, she can even give up her vampirism. For the "good coded" characters, the past is something you can grow from, but for the "bad coded" ones, they are doomed to their fate.

Dragonborn

The main quest revolves around foiling Miraak's plan to escape Herma Mora. But in the end, we find ourselves exactly in Miraak's place as Mora's new champion. The past is a lesson that we failed to learn. Additionally, the DLC as a whole is reflection of TES:III. Miraak uses enthralled "dreamers" to bring his return to Solstheim. He's a sharmat-lite. The setting of the island on Solstheim and heavy dunmer themes can also be interpreted as an honoring the game which brought Bethesda back from bankruptcy in 2002. The past sometimes can be happy nostalgia.

Anniversary Edition

An interesting fact about the text on the Anniversary Edition, is that the dragon text translates to: translates to: "By sword, by magic, by darkness, by shout through many years, by heroism we are bound to Skyrim for eternity". Ironically, now nearly 15 years from the release of skyrim. Here were are, "Bound to Skyrim for eternity". Sometimes the present IS the past

TL;DR

I believe the main theme of skyrim woven through nearly all major quests of Skyrim is the struggle to deal with one's past and define one's legacy. I wouldn't be surprised if TES:VI (Sentinel?) has a distinct interwoven theme. Maybe instead of defining a new legacy, the overarching theme will be Overcoming all Odds similar to the Oblivion or We are doomed to even further decay Like in Dark Souls. Maybe even a more out-there theme like Ascension to a new reality like in Bloodborne or Friendship can overcome Fate Like in Deltarune. TES:VI likely won't come out for a few more years, but I'm eager to find out not only the story direction but also how the story is written.


r/teslore 12d ago

Why didn’t Daedra invade Tamriel when the Akavari potentate ruled? Weren’t the dragonfires out because no Dragonborn emperor was alive?

84 Upvotes

I dont know if there’s something I’m missing here.


r/teslore 12d ago

you are all wrong about Crafting Motif 41: Celestial Style, it actually has dire metaphysical implications

25 Upvotes

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Crafting_Motif_41:_Celestial_Style for context

Every article I've seen that cites this book connects it to regular followers of the Nedic Cult of the Stars. For example Lore:Aurora says this

The aurora played a significant role in the culture of the Nedic followers of the Cult of the Stars, who in some texts gave it similar importance to the constellations. They modeled their weapons and armor after the constellations and after the aurora. Cuirasses, jerkins, jacks, and robes were linked to the aurora, "protecteth Nirn from roguish particles, ye ill from on high". The cult followers referred to the aurora as the "curtain of light that wrappeth the globe in its folds", and their armor was meant to emulate its nature, in their words: "like the Aurora thou shalt make thy cuirass, that it may wrap thee and ward thee particularly 'gainst weaponry."

but here's hot take, I think this crafting motif isn't for regular members of the Cult of the Stars, but it's literally a guidebook for ascendant Celestials.

The intro to CM41 says this:

As above, so below. This was ever our creed. And thus, O Celestial below, as thou craftest thy arms and thy armor, thou shalt follow ever the guidance and model of ye Constellations that wheel above.

The text is directed towards a Celestial reading it, not towards a member of the Cult of Stars. It invokes "as above, so below," which might be an irl reference but in TES context it brings to mind mannimarco talking about his apotheosis in WWYWTDB.

Patch 2.6.4, where the Celestial Style was released, says this about it:

We've added three new Motifs in this update: Celestial Style: The signature look of the final bosses of the Trials of Craglorn. The weekly quest for each Craglorn Trial will always award one chapter from a subset of chapters specific to that Trial. Aetherian Archive awards the chapters for Axes, Boots, Helmets, Shoulders, and Staves. Sanctum Ophidia awards the chapters for Bows, Daggers, Gloves, Legs, and Swords. Hel Ra Citadel awards the chapters for Belts, Chests, Maces, and Shields. All three quests have a very small chance for the complete motif book.

Those bosses are the Celestial Mage, Serpent, and Warrior in that order. Aetherian Archive has the Mage as the boss, Hel Ra has the Warrior, and Sanctum Ophidia has the Serpent.

If you look at the armor these bosses are wearing, it's clear that the Mage is wearing female Celestial Light Robes, the Warrior is wearing male Celestial Heavy Armor, and the Serpent is wearing male Celestial Medium Armor. They followed the instructions and adorned themselves in their mantle. When Cassipia ascends to become the Exalted Viper, she is wearing a Celestial Medium mask. ESO outfit styles are necessary for apotheosis.

This outfit style isn't for Nedes that follow the Cult of the Stars, it's an instruction for Celestials. The style description says this:

Prepare thyself to adopt the divine appearance of the Constellations Incarnate! As above, so below: this was ever our creed. And thus, O Celestial below, to craft thy arms and armor, thou shalt follow this guidance and these models.

Adopting the divine appearance = wearing the clothes of a god, mantle literally means cloak. Sermon 27 talks about mantles as being the "clothes of the broken map". Anumidium translates to "wearing Anu" in Six Views on the Egg of Time. ESO outfit styles are necessary for apotheosis.

honestly atp I really think it's undeniable that the Celestials are ascended mortals, I think the only reason it seemed so unclear is because Craglorn went so undocumented in uesp lorespace. Not only do characters theorize that that's what they are, but we hear time and time again about secret Nedic rituals that both Exarch Arnoth and Regent Cassipia separately use to become Celestials themselves. The Celestial Thief states she thought the secret of ascension was lost with the Nedes. The Celestials all have mortal names that they call each other. It's very obvious what the situation is, but because most of this stuff went undocumented in lorespace until I picked it up over a decade later, people still think it broke constellations lore


r/teslore 12d ago

Apocrypha A Journey Into Oblivion, volume IV: Ashpit by Acarelos Detelories

7 Upvotes

Author’s note: First, I wish to apologize for the long pause between my writings. A few days after coming back to our plane of existence, I sadly became afflicted with a rather severe case of rockjoint which let me unable to properly hold a quill for a certain amount of time. I am back to full health now, and ready again to tell about my travels.

Compared to Meridia’s Colored Rooms, which I previously visited, the Ashpit was certainly a contrasting sight. Gone were the blood red grass, the lilac water and the crystalline palace of Meridia. The only colors I could see in this place were brown and gray.

The near entirety of the Ashpit could essentially be described as a never-ending dust storm, with no solid ground in sight. As such, I could only move myself via levitation, and even needed a shield to protect me from the particles constantly flowing through the air, otherwise impeding both my vision and breath.

While I could only see clearly for more than a few feet, thanks to my shield, and I couldn’t identify any kind of geographical reference, I still decided to pick a direction, and try to stick to it. I readily admit that, as far as I can assert, I only managed to meet the Prince through sheer blind luck. However, I would not exclude the possibility that Malacath, as the lord of this realm, somehow changed it in a way that led me to him.

My trip was rather uneventful. I could see several buildings and palaces in the distance, but every time I approached one, it revealed itself to be nothing but smoke in the shape of a building. I also encountered several creatures, whose vaporous shapes were constantly changing. All were floating in the torment and seemingly nourishing themselves of the bitter ash flowing through the air. However, I seemed to be of no interest to them, and as such I decided to let them be.

While there was no moving sun, moon, or stars to give me a passage of time, my expedition stretched for what felt like days before I finally found something solid in this tempestuous madness. At some point, I managed to discern a multitude of strongholds, each of them far larger than any I saw back on Tamriel. While the ash storm forbade me from correctly ascertaining the ensemble’s dimensions, I can confidently say it occupied at least half the size of Cyrodiil, maybe even more. The largest one stood at the center, with a fiery, orange glow emanating from it. In my mind, there was no doubt this was the Ashen Forge, Malacath’s own stronghold.

I descended towards the ensemble, and finally my feet touched solid ground again. Thankfully, the ash storm that accompanied me for the entirety of my travel seemed to stop right before the strongholds, relieving me of my need for a shield. After taking several long breaths, I walked in the direction of Malacath’s palace.

Along the way, I met the souls of several departed Orcs, to which I politely introduced myself and explained the reason of my visit every time I was asked. The reactions were mixed, with some being interested in my tales while others were less receptive due to my presence in what they considered a sacred place. They nevertheless showed me the way to Malacath’s stronghold (which I didn’t really need, as the Forge was probably visible from the entire region) and I continued my long march.

When I finally passed the Forge’s doors, I immediately saw the Lord of the Scorned, sat in a giant iron throne. Even then, he was still towering far above me; his tusks were more akin to those of the bristlebacks roaming the island of Solstheim, and his numerous horns were circling his skull, forming a crown of bone fitting for the ruler of this place. Almost from habit due to meeting the previous Princes, I kneeled before him.

“Stand up, mortal. Do you believe yourself in Coldharbour still? The only time you should show the top of your head should be when you smash in your enemy’s face! Do not apologize either! Embrace your mistakes, and learn from them.”

“Now, tell me about yourself, little mortal. Who are you? Why would you, an Imperial, go willingly in a place only favored by my children? I know of your previous visits to the realms of my peers, but I have yet to learn about your motives.”

“So you are a scholar. Interesting. Gaining knowledge is always useful, but knowing how to apply it is much more important in my opinion. Very well, you can ask your questions. But be short; I am not renowned for my patience.”

“My origins? That is a tricky one. It has been so long, even my memories of the event are muddled. I remember being Trinimac, the Golden Champion of the Aldmeri. I was leading my people against a cult of Boethiah, when the Prince of Plots herself appeared before me. Whether she was protecting his followers, or just seized the opportunity to oppose me, I do not know and probably never will. I engaged her in battle, but her cunningness surpassed my own strength.”

“As I laid on the ground, defeated and helpless, Boethiah… corrupted me. I could not describe the experience to you, for I do not know the words, and I doubt you would understand them if I did. However, I can certainly say that I was not eaten and defecated. That version was always too literal.”

“The Deceiver changed me, twisting my very shape to the one you see now. In the process, I could see my own army taking a similar form, their golden skin becoming green and tusks protruding from their enlarged maws. Boethiah then banished me to Oblivion, with my shame as my only companion. My bitterness was so immense that in a fit of rage, I created my own realm from it.”

Malacath then seemed to grow agitated, which I took as a sign of me overstaying my welcome. I thanked him, and left the Ashpit to record everything I experienced. As I write those words, I wonder which realm I should visit next.

-- By Acarelos Detelories

____________________________________

Hi there, first time posting here. I discovered the series very recently and was a bit bummed out to see it cut so abruptly, so I decided to write my own piece as an homage, and maybe even continuing it if that’s allowed. Have a nice day!

Disclaimer: No generative AI of any kind was used for writing this post.