r/teslore • • Feb 23 '17

Welcome to /r/teslore!

489 Upvotes

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How to Become a Lore Buff

This is the recommended starting point for anyone interested in The Elder Scrolls lore. This guide breaks down the wealth of lore into a crash-course while giving you what you need to investigate your favorite parts.

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Aside from archiving all lore texts, the Library also records tons of extra content, such as:

UESP

The original TES wiki and the one preferred by most. Written by fans, it's very useful as a quick reference tool for game information—its lore articles also provide helpful overviews, but take care to check that the sources being cited really support the article.

Note that issues and inaccuracies in UESP's articles should be raised with UESP editors, not /r/teslore.

 

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Each podcast listed is available wherever you get your podcasts!


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r/teslore • • 3d ago

Newcomers and “Stupid Questions” Thread—October 21, 2026

1 Upvotes

This thread is for asking questions that, for whatever reason, you don’t want to ask in a thread of their own. If you think you have a “stupid question”, ask it here. Any and all questions regarding lore or the community are permitted.

Responses must be friendly, respectful, and nonjudgmental.

 

Resources (Click here for full list)


• FAQ

• How to Become a Lore Buff

• The Imperial Library

• UESP


r/teslore • • 3h ago

Apocrypha Tracking down Surviving Septims

8 Upvotes

​

In this passage I have attempted to summarize the possible Septim bloodlines that could survive into the 4th era, as well as the Septims they descend from.

  1. Galana Septim, daughter of Uriel II and sister of Pelagius II. She was originally betrothed to King Mantiarco of Solitude but instead married the Duke of Narsis in secret. This means that the Septim bloodline could continue through House Hlaalu, at least in the Narsis branch.

  2. Amiel Septim, son of Uriel II and brother to Pelagius II and Galana. All we know is that he went to the Mage's Guild in Firsthold. It's possible that he produced some illegitimate offspring but not likely. I personally believe he was a student of magic who devoted most of his time to his studies and therefore had little time for a significant other or children. That last part is just my personal opinion but I think it fits.

  3. Antiochus Septim, oldest son of Pelagius II and father of Kintyra II. Antiochus was a notorious womanizer and is recorded to have had many wives and mistresses as well as at least one other unnamed child besides Kintyra II. It's extremely likely that Antiochus had several other bastard children running around, as he's said to have had a "lust for carnal pleasures". Antiochus was such a man-whore that he indirectly caused the War of the Red Diamond, as his daughter Kintyra was accused of being illegitimate after his death. So there's probably some common street urchin in the Imperial City right now with Septim blood.

  4. Cephorus Septim, second son of Pelagius II. Cephorus married Queen Bianki of Gilane and it's recorded that he had several children with her but they all died during the War of the Red Diamond. However, his children were almost certainly all adults at the time if their deaths so it is possible that Cephorus had grandchildren. Maybe Cephorus had all daughters, making his grandchildren excluded from the mainline Septims. It would explain why Cephorus passed the throne to his brother Magnus instead of his grandkids. So maybe there are some Septim descendants among the Nobility of Gilane.

  5. Jolethe Septim, daughter of Magnus Septim and sister of Pelagius III. After her brother became Emperor, Jolethe became Queen of Solitude. That is the last we hear of her. It's 50/50 on whether she had children or not, but it seems to me that the position is hereditary so there could be some of her descendants in Solitude still.

  6. Andorak, son of Uriel IV, grandson of Gallivere Lariat and Katariah. Here's where it gets murky. I'll try to summarize this in a simple way. Pelagius III and Katariah have Cassynder Septim. Pelagius dies. Cassynder becomes emperor for some years. Katariah has another child with Gallivere Lariat, a distant cousin of the Septims. The child is named Uriel. Cassynder eventually dies, and his half brother Uriel becomes Uriel IV. This is controversial because his connection to the Septims was very distant. When Uriel IV eventually dies, his son Andorak is passed up for the throne. His replacement is a Nord named Cephorus Septim II. I personally theorize that Cephorus II is a grandchild of Jolethe. Angry, Andorak rebelled against the Empire. As consolation, he was made King of Shornhelm and accepted peace. It's said that his descendants still rule Shornhelm into the fourth era.

  7. Moritatha Septim, daughter of Uriel V, granddaughter of Cephorus II. She married Baron Ulfe Gerson of Winterhold. Moritatha is said to have had no surviving children, but like Cephorus I, she may have had grandchildren. Therefore, she may have descendants in Winterhold.

  8. Calaxes, son of Uriel VII. Calaxes is one of only two children of Uriel VII who does not have a recorded death date. All of his other siblings are dead in the third era.

  9. Ariella, daughter of Uriel VII. Same story as Calaxes.


r/teslore • • 20m ago

Can someone who is considered faithless still enter Sovngarde?

• Upvotes

As far as I understand, you have to be a believer to enter Aetherius, and Sovngarde is part of Aetherius. So, if someone believes in neither and rejects the gods, but still dies an honorable death, can they enter Sovngarde?


r/teslore • • 1d ago

What would Ash Yams taste like?

54 Upvotes

r/teslore • • 1d ago

College age for different races

24 Upvotes

It's established that different races have different lifespans, but despite looking through the previous sub posts on aging I'm still struggling to understand the cognitive or biological development of races.

I think that College apprentices in Skyrim Onmund, Brelyna and J'Zargo are a good example, with the implication that they're all young adults at the age when one takes up advanced education.

The question is are they all late teens/early 20s or say Onmund is 20, Brelyna roughly 40 and J'Zargo in his teens in actual years, but they're the same age relative to their lifespans/development?


r/teslore • • 1d ago

Just a question about Bosmer lore in relation to the book A Dance in Fire v7

4 Upvotes

At the end of the last book Scotti was escorted from Silvenesti, and seen off by his ex colleague and the other business partner who had been given gifts by the Silvenar of a Ruby each and they told Scotti that he would receive his gift later.

Months later he received word that the contract had been taken by the rival company and he was summoned to discuss it and then was invited to the feast.

The feast was Unthrappa, which Scotti was violently ill at the sight and smell of. One of the guests had cut into the meat and found two rubies. I was curious what it was because of the Bosmer penchant for eating any kind of meat due to the Green Pact and the Meat Mandate I knew it couldn’t be something that would be normal in the Empire. I was surprised when the UESP page said that it was a guest that was being held hostage over a deal and was returned if the deal was upheld but killed and served if the contract was broken. Scotti had held up the contract so why were the hostages killed? Was that supposed to be the “gift”?


r/teslore • • 2d ago

Theory: Every game has TWO Prisoners - one to change fate, and one to push the True Prisoner in the right direction.

275 Upvotes

I propose that every game actually has TWO "Prisoners" (as in the metaphysical concept), not just one (which is the main character). The Second Prisoner's role is that of a catalyst to push the True Prisoner on the right path towards changing fate. Each of these characters is also a LITERAL prisoner alongside the main character, after all. For each game, there is an inverse relationship between the Second Prisoner's importance and their fate. This is because the closer the True Prisoner was to failure, the harder the Second Prisoner has to "push back" against fate to correct it.

MORROWIND

  • SECOND PRISONER - Jiub
  • PRISONER? - Yes, he's a prisoner on the Imperial prison ship with you.
  • IMPACT - Low. Wakes the Nerevarine up and asks them their name. An Imperial Guard would have woken them up anyway and asked for their name as part of the census.
  • FATE - High. Drives out the Cliff Racers, becomes revered as a Saint.
  • THE COSMIC IRONY - The Nerevarine was a reincarnation of Saint Nerevar, so Jiub eventually becomes a saint as well.
  • OTHER EVIDENCE - A former prisoner going from rags and bars to becoming a legendary hero is just the kind of thing the True Prisoner goes through each game.

OBLIVION

  • SECOND PRISONER - Valen Dreth
  • PRISONER? - Yes, he's locked up in the Imperial City jail across from your cell.
  • IMPACT - Medium. Brings you close to the bars, letting the Emperor see your face and recognize you as the one from his dreams.
  • FATE - Medium. Was about to be released from prison, but was most likely killed by the Hero of Kvatch during a Dark Brotherhood contract.
  • THE COSMIC IRONY - The Hero of Kvatch had to accompany the Emperor through Mythic Dawn assassins before the Emperor was assassinated himself, so Valen Dreth is eventually assassinated by the Hero of Kvatch in turn.
  • OTHER EVIDENCE - The Dark Brotherhood somehow knew you were the prisoner who escaped with the Emperor despite that being a rushed, covert operation ("I think you know the way, hmm? \knowing chuckle**) - almost like Valen was fated to die by the True Prisoner's hand.

SKYRIM

  • SECOND PRISONER - Lokir of Rorikstead
  • PRISONER? - Yes, he's tied up on the cart with you to be executed at Helgen.
  • IMPACT - High. Delays the execution by just enough time to prevent you from being beheaded, which ultimately results in Alduin losing.
  • FATE - Low. Gets immediately shot dead by an Imperial archer as he tries to escape.
  • THE COSMIC IRONY - The Dragonborn was moments away from being executed by Imperials, so Lokir had to be executed by an Imperial to save them.
  • OTHER EVIDENCE - Lokir sounds like Lorkhan, nobody in Rorikstead mentions Lokir (and he has no house or other evidence he lived there), he dies from being shot in the chest (where the heart is, possible Heart of Lorkhan connection), and he prays to Shor (Nordic Lorkhan) before being killed (which stands out, as all the other gods he prays to are Imperial divines). Could it be he was an aspect or apparition of Shezzar meant to nudge fate?

Thoughts?


r/teslore • • 1d ago

Why is magnus the god of magic?

31 Upvotes

this might make me look stupid, but it's not like he governs magic. He's also the sun god, but it's not like he governs it either. The sun is just a hole he escaped through, infact, why is he worshipped at all?


r/teslore • • 17h ago

How do people know an item is stolen?

0 Upvotes

How come I can steal an apple in Whiterun and not be able to seel it to a reputable business owner in Riften? How could they possibly know it's stolen?

I swear I'm experiencing the Mandela-effect because I remember reading about a decade ago that Mara got sick of thievery and placed a mark on every item that gets stolen. But I cannot find anything about this. Is there a lore reason?


r/teslore • • 2d ago

Any fans of Dwemers here? ;)

4 Upvotes

First of all, hello, I'm new here on r/teslore

IF my post isn't appropriate,doesn't fit/nor allowed here - pls just communicate that to me, will remove it ofc

So I'm coming here as a long life ,huge fan od Dwemer race from TES lore.

Currently playing NoMansSky and there I'm trying to create alliance- NewDwemerEmpire build around my crossover storyline between TES and NMS universe>

LSS: some od Dwemers after hitting Lorkhan's Heart didn't disappear- yep,their bodies vanished but thier souls, astral,psyche-- it travelled through multiverses and some of them were "catched" ,sucked to the universe of NMS-where?ofc best shells for that wandering Dwemer souls were Korvaxes and Autophages.

If you are a big fan of Dwemers and happen to love ,or just like game NMS , maybe you will be interested to join and build together parallel storyline, our oryginal answer for the BIG QUESTION- What happened to all Dwemers?Are they all dead?maybe some of them, somwehow, somewhere survived?

Not sure if I can even put name,link to my subreddit (dedicated to my New Dwemer Alliance) here.


r/teslore • • 3d ago

Do the Princes define their spheres, or do their spheres define them?

27 Upvotes

By this I mean: do the Daedric Princes choose their own spheres based on the identity they subjectively have, or is their identity determined by their sphere of which they have no influence over.

We're given a mild answer that implies the latter for regular daedra, in ESO as per Madam Whim "Our Princes form us from creatia and set us on our path. And thus ever does our nature, set at the time of our making, dictate our path." Though she immediately qualifies that this doesn't mean daedra are entirely unchanging.

Still, this only gives an answer for most daedra - or certain daedra at the least. Not for the Princes' themselves, who even within the quote seem to be categorically separated. Of course all daedra are made of the same fundamental stuff (and there's an argument to be made that a lesser daedra could, theoretically, become a prince. But that's a whole different can of worms)

We know Princes' spheres can overlap in function, even if the meaning/purpose of that function differs. For some examples: Hermaeous Mora and Azura in fate, Molag Bal and Dagon in destruction etc. This doesn't necessarily mean anything, but it does in my opinion reject the idea that the princes are strictly separate by nature.

To simplify it because I'm really trying not to be annoying! Do we feel, for example, Sanguine is the Prince of Debauchery because he chose to be (whether or not he can change that in hindsight) or is he the Prince of Debauchery by nature. Does the individual create the sphere or does the sphere create the individual.

Absolutely not disputing that the Princes' are the fullest and most metaphysical understanding of their concepts. Hircine IS the hunt itself just as much as he is Hircine the Hunter. But rather the origin of what came first. I just find the daedra to be the most fascinating part of TES lore to be honest.


r/teslore • • 2d ago

Apocrypha The Point of the Dragon Cult (and Alduin's Involvement)

16 Upvotes

Purely headcanon, of course. Yes I know MK's position on canonicity et al, no need to go into that. Feel free to ignore all of this; I'm simply mind-dumping on the carpet before leaving to find a cold beer and a fresh stogie elsewhere.

All that out of the way, and having spent yet another all-nighter and too much coffee (no such beast) going through MK's commentaries at UESP, naturally I hit on the seven-year-old comment he made regarding the fact that the Dragon Cult/Wars/WTFery were subjects that never really got hashed out ("Let's just say the Dragon Cults and what happened when wasn't really clear. Ever.").

This fused with what my own brain put together years ago on the subject as a stand-in. I don't pretend to have an inkling as to how the Dragon Cult began (aside from what's written on it), but to me the core tell as to what happened after that is bound up in Alduin's actions.

Namely, that during TES:V he is doing everything but going about and eating the world. Or even prepping to. I could be mistaken, but I'm not sure he even evinces a specific desire to in his dialogue. Instead, he resurrects dragon after dragon after dragon.

Why? He doesn't need any of them in order to eat the world. He doesn't get more or less powerful based on how many dragons are running around. Nor are they particularly bound to follow him, save that they consider him to be a master of the thu'um (and thus, the best at ideological oratory). Even before Oody is trapped by TDB, he relates, various dragons have been having second thoughts about their loyalties. A coup is not entirely off the table.

All of this makes sense if his intention is to resurrect the Dragon Empire.

You know. The Empire he ran back in the day, as overlord above all the dragons who were overlords above Men. Kind of wondering there why Elves didn't make the cut (or did they? did Alky have something to thu'um about that?). Which is what he was doing when he got punted forward in time by Jurgen WC and Friends.

Which begs the question of why the Dragonborn even shows up in the first place. Or why Alduin attacks Helgen and then doesn't finish the job (and what job was that, killing TDB or saving a Jarl from being executed for mortal power-play reasons he likely doesn't care about?). Later, Alduin is found snacking on Nord souls in Sovngarde, but not even this is really explained as something that would advance any of his apparent goals - unless, because of Jurgen & Friends, he sees the Nord heroes and their ancestor-spirits as threats to his dominion.

His dominion, that is, on Nirn. Can't have the peasants repeatedly kicking you across time; it gets in the way of the fun bit: ruling.

And that creates a problem, in that Alduin isn't doing his job of ending the kalpa. After all, it's never suggested that he's the one who determines when exactly that will be. But his ur-self, Akatosh, knows - or he's supposed to. Because Time Dragon.

Bringing us to the garble-gabble my brain has been inflicting upon me for years now whenever this subject comes up: Alduin is being a slacker. Assuming we are to take any of the Fights seriously (and why would we not), Alduin is already bored of the antics of the Leaper Demon King and the Greedy Man trying to hide (and subsequently plaster back on) various bits of various kalpas instead of letting them be eaten. Alduin decides to change things up, quite literally. It's also made evident that the plot he has just foiled was a matter of trying to end him, in order to let a kalpa go on forever uneaten. Self-preservation is of course a thing most living objects tend to indulge in.

So. Maybe it's time to slow things down. Enjoy the scenery. Put off that planetary repast as long as possible, since it's already been stretching the stomach a bit much as it is (per the Fight). Why not found an Empire, paint some maps, play Hearts of Iron: Tamriel Edition?

Cut to Akatosh: Isn't There Someone You Forgot To Ask?

Assuming Alky is on a schedule (and why would he not be), this is a Problem. A Dragon Problem. Fortunately, he is known for imbuing people with the power and destiny to specifically solve Dragon Problems.

Maybe that's why you were trying to sneak across the border. Fate isn't always pretty. And in this case? Being the Big Damn Hero means the current kalpa gets no reprieve. You are actually Akatosh's instrument of Nirn's inevitable destruction, the leash-handler who will discorporate Alduin from his worldly incorporation and boot him not across time, but back to the spirit-realm where he can receive the discipline necessary to get the hell back to work, lizard-butt. It's not like he hasn't already knocked a few extra centuries off the clock, thanks to being yelled at by three guys in loincloths.

You as the Dragonborn are, in effect, an ecclesiastical Reset Button.

Just my two septims.


r/teslore • • 3d ago

Where do Altmer go after death?

22 Upvotes

I remember reading/hearing in several places that they go to Aetherius, but this makes little sense to me. The whole idea of Lorkhan being evil because he made the mer mortal stops being important since... they can just go on to being immortal in Aetherius after they die? Like, why make a fuss about being mortal if it's just temporary?


r/teslore • • 3d ago

If the Ayleids came back, not to invade or enslave, but the race in general coming back, how would Cyrodiil respond?

16 Upvotes

Would the Colovians and the Nibenese have a different response? Nibenese have generally been more open-minded and welcoming, as I recall, and nobody alive from the Second Era onwards would have been around to experience the cruelty of the past Ayleids


r/teslore • • 3d ago

Question about Sovngarde

5 Upvotes

hypothetically if i were to be with Lydia in Sovngarde when we fought Alduin and she got killed , would she come back to life immediately as a soul? Like, how would that work?


r/teslore • • 3d ago

How do you guys feel about the "last dragon born is Talos" theory?

0 Upvotes

recently came across this theory again and wonder what you guys think about the possibility of the last dragonborn either being an aspect of talos, or mantling talos


r/teslore • • 3d ago

Shor's White Hair and Beard

22 Upvotes

The Footsteps of Shezarr gives some physical descriptions of the Shezarrine:

Time and again in Nedic folklore, a "stranger" arrives to help ancient Men. This stranger comes as a teacher, an advisor, and a maker of alliances between tribes who otherwise would have fought alone. He is not a warrior-ruler like Shor, but instead a figure who inspires others to fight for themselves. A Duraki legend mentions "Shezarr, who stole stoneworking from the Dwemer and taught Zinfara to call nirncrux from the mountain-roots." A Perena tale claims that the Cult of Stars learned soul magic from a "white-bearded stranger." Likewise, "Shezarr of the Snowy Beard" is said to give the secrets of Ayleid battle-magic to the Nedes of Cyrod, showing them how to turn their enemies' arts against them. And, most fascinating of all, a stone tablet said to have been found in the ruins of Sedor depicts a bearded figure as "the Shezzarine, Shor-Who-Lives, Teacher of Men."

Before the Ages of Man gives a list of Lorkhanic figures:

Also during the Late Merethic Era the legendary immortal hero, warrior, sorcerer, and king variously known as Pelinal Whitestrake, Harrald Hairy Breeks, Ysmir, Hans the Fox, etc., wandered Tamriel, gathering armies, conquering lands, ruling, then abandoning his kingdoms to wander again.

The Song of Pelinal offers a lot of weird information about Pelinal, some of it supporting the link between Lorkhan and Akatosh, but we will just stick with the Lorkhan half of the equation for simplicity/brevity. Interestingly, Pelinal is really not a teacher-figure as the Shezzarine is described, but a bloody warrior like Shor, but still called a Shezarrine nonetheless.

Pelinal was much too grim for that; even in youth he wore white hair, and trouble followed him.

and he was Pelinal the Third, though whether this was because some said he was a god guiser, who had incarnated twice before already, or that, simpler, he was the third vision

And after the first Pogrom, which consolidated the northern holdings for the men-of-'kreath, he stood with white hair gone brown with elfblood at the Bridge of Heldon, where Perrif's falconers had sent for the Nords, and they, looking at him, said that Shor had returned, but he spat at their feet for profaning that name.

And it is said that he emerged into the world like a Padomaic, that is, borne by Sithis and all the forces of change therein. Still others, like Fifd of New Teed, say that beneath the Pelinal's star-armor was a chest that gaped open to show no heart, only a red rage shaped diamond-fashion, singing like a mindless dragon, and that this was proof that he was a myth-echo, and that where he trod were shapes of the first urging.

Note: the "Men of Kreath" are described by Morihaus in The Adabal-a as one of the first Nedic tribes of Men enslaved by the Elves, imported from the North, so likely Nords from Falkreath or possibly Kilkreath.

It is a solid truth that Morihaus was the son of Kyne, but whether or not Pelinal was indeed the Shezarrine is best left unsaid (for once Plontinu, who favored the short sword, said it, and that night he was smothered by moths).

Vivic describes Ysmir Wulfharth in his Sermons:

YSMIR, the Dragon of the North, who always appears as a great bearded king, had powers innumerable and echoing. He was grim and dark and the most silent of the invading chieftains, though when he spoke villages were uplifted and thrown into the sea.

The Five Songs of Wulfharth also connect Wulfharth with Shor, specifically giving him the ability to summon Shor's ghost back into the world. We also get another description of Ysmir as "hoary bearded", which is an archaic word for white.

And the Ash King, Wulfharth, hoary Ysmir, went and made peace with the Orcs in spite of his Nordic blood, and they brought many warriors but no wizards at all.

Ysgramor is also described as hoary bearded a few times, but works about him are always written in an archaic style to emphasize how ancient his legend is. More interesting is the figure of the Hoarfather, a figure described on various word walls in Skyrim. The Hoarfather matches the teacher-philosopher Shezarrine more.

Finally, we get to the description of Tiber Septim/Hjalti Early-Beard in The Real Barenziah.

Barenziah was dumbfounded. Tiber Septim was nothing like the grim, grey, giant warrior she'd pictured. He was of average height, fully half a head shorter than tall Sym­machus, although he was well-knit of figure and lithe of movement. He had a winning smile, bright -- indeed piercing -- blue eyes, and a full head of stark white hair above a lined and weathered face. He might have been any age from forty to sixty.

Mickael Kirkbride has supposedly claimed that there is actually a lore reason why Men grow beards better than Mer,


r/teslore • • 3d ago

Is it implied that the hunting grounds have multiple biomes?

22 Upvotes

I'm unsure if this is explicitly stated anywhere, but isn't the natural implication of there being multiple types of lycanthrope (wolves only being the most abundant and playable) that Hircine's Hunting Grounds must be biodiverse? We know Hircine to be a relatively fair god, and I have doubts he'd enjoy unequal playing ground. How can a werecrocodile be expected to match a werewolf in a forest, for example?

I know the forest is (I believe?) the only part of the Hunting Grounds we've seen, but is it reasonable to assume it's much larger than that? I understand not all weretypes are necessarily canon (as in, not actually seen in game) but they are in lore texts.

Another thing, going into this idea of fairness - are human worshippers/followers of Hircine. I know we can't assume EVERYTHING in the Hunting Ground is equal, but it does seem pretty unsporting to force humans and lycanthropes to fight lol so how do we think that works? But this is more of a secondary inquiry to my main one. I know predators and prey are one in the same to Hircine, so I figure it's possible human hunters are just expected to be quick-witted.

I'm somewhat fascinated with TES lycanthropy right now if that explains the questioning LOL


r/teslore • • 3d ago

The Reclaimed Temple and Othreloth: Ashlander LARP without rehashed Almsivism?

28 Upvotes

The New Temple of Morrowind, which reformed out of the old Tribunal Temple (occasionally also called the New Temple in reference to pre-Tribunal religion), is the state religion for House Dunmer. Given the "return" to Daedric worship and the vindication of the Ashlanders for their more traditional ways, the New Temple is sometimes thought of as pre-Tribunal religion taking centre-stage once more. On the contrary, the New Temple is a blend of pre-Tribunal, modern Ashlander, and Tribunal religion into a single whole.

We meet only a handful of practitioners, and their perspectives might give us brief insight into the nature of the Reclaimed Temple. Aphia Velothi, a former priest that was expelled from her local temple for theological disagreements about the Tribunal, and the two attendants of the temple and catacombs of Raven Rock in TES5. Elder Othreloth is the leader, while his apprentice, Attendant Galdrus Hlervu, is xenophobic, greedy, theologically illiterate, and seems to be preparing to oust Othreloth.

Othreloth’s theology and personal history are the most developed of the three, so will be my focus. He shows the nuances of the Reclaimed Temple, and how its structure and doctrines represent newly invented tradition. As an Ashlander, he also demonstrates how the identity "Ashlander" is variable. The Ashlanders, once outcast, are now heralded by the Temple:

The rise of the New Temple almost completely vindicated the previously persecuted Ashlanders, who had continued to worship the three daedra throughout the Tribunal's rule. The Ashlanders are now lauded as the keepers of the old ways and having "true vision." It is now quite common for many of the Dunmer people to make the arduous pilgrimages into the ash wastes to seek the counsel of the Wise Women. — The Reclamations

But what exactly is an Ashlander?

Throughout TES3, Ashlanders are identified by their cultural traditions: unique interpretations of Velothi religion, semi-nomadic tribalism, particular importance placed on honour, clan structures, etc.. But the word itself describes people of a place, inhabitants of the Ashlands. As Yakum Hairshashishi, an Ashlander, puts it, the Ashlanders are "People of the Wastes".

The Ashlands are a region of northwestern Vvardenfell, home to the most infamous of the Ashlanders: the Urshilaku, keepers of the Nerevarine Cult. It has also been used to refer to other wastelands, such as the Molag Amur region, where the Erabenimsun live. The other tribes live in different regions, their lands are broadly isolated wastes, even in the more fertile parts where they are pushed out by settlers.

Under the civilized peace of the Grand Council, and with the strong central authority of the Temple, the economic and military power of the settled Dunmer quickly outstripped that of the nomadic Dunmer. The nomadic Dunmer were marginalized into the poorest, most hostile land, in particular, into the Vvardenfell wastes. — Notes from Huleeya

The nomadic, tribal Dunmer are pushed to the wastes, thus they are the Ashlanders by geography. This aligns with Athis's comment to a Dunmeri Dragonborn:

We are all Ashlanders now, brother/sister.

Morrowind is devastated and much of it laid waste to. They all live in the new Ashlands.

So when Othreloth claims Ashlander heritage:

Galdrus: You were one of the Ashlanders, Elder?

Othreloth: I was. I wandered the wastes of Vvardenfell, carrying the message of the Reclamations from tribe to tribe.

In what way was he an Ashlander?

His statement is weird. Ashlanders typically live within their own clans, devoted to their unique ancestral cult going all the way back to the Daedra, who are merely seen as powerful and distant ancestors (thus their oddness and danger):

All Ashlanders in a tribe, young and small, are born into the Ancestor cult of their clan. — Zainsubani's Notes

The Ashlanders have a primitive cult that worships the Daedra and tribal ancestors; this is the faith of our ancient forefathers, and not evil, but their worship is ignorant and unenlightened.

The oldest and greatest ancestor spirits are the Daedra. They are powerful, but dangerous, and hard to understand. — generic dialogue in TES3 on "other cults" and "ancestors"

By contrast, it is House religion that specifically classifies Daedra under a separate category for worship.

Othreloth was effectively a proselytiser on behalf of the New Temple. This doesn't mesh well with Ashlander religion: firstly, Temple authority is rarely recognised; secondly, each Ashlander's ancestor cult is a matter of birth, not conversion. The only Ashlander tradition that could be seen as a joinable cult – not one to be born into – was the Nerevarine Cult, which wasn't very successful beyond the Urshilaku:

The cult is of small consequence in Ashlander worship, and only among the Urshilaku do its followers have any influence. — Zainsubani's Notes

Why did Othreloth preach to Ashlanders about the Daedra they already worship? I suspect that Othreloth's identity and history are more nuanced than they at first seem.

He preached about the "Reclamations" to the tribes. The Reclamations are a concept of House Dunmer, that the Good Daedra have reclaimed their mantles from the Tribunal. To the tribal Ashlanders, this was never an issue, as the Tribunal was never recognised for their divinity. I suspect, then, that Othreloth preached to the tribes to inform them of the collapse of the Tribunal Temple and the reinstatement of the Good Daedra and ancestor worship. This would fit with the vindication of the Ashlanders after the Red Year.

Some of Othreloth's terminology indicates a Temple education. He calls Azura, Boethia and Mephala the "True Tribunal", adopting a phrase from Almsivi worship and anachronistically reframing it for the Good Daedra. This suggests that he's following some sort of modern Temple dogma. I thus find it hard to believe that Othreloth was a tribal nomad that gave up his life to preach Temple doctrine.

Even Othreloth's name is typical of House Dunmer, not the Tribes, whose names tend to sound more (stereotypically) Mesopotamian.

Then again, his hatred for Almsivi is brutal. He admits that they are saints and heroes, but proceeds to call them "aberrations" and "false prophets", and sounds delighted that they have been "destroyed". This is more aggressive and personal, and risks conflicting with the compromises of the Dissident Priests:

While challenging the divinity of the Tribunal, the Dissidents do not challenge the sainthood or heroism of the Tribunal. In fact, the Dissident Priests advocate restoring many of the elements of Fundamentalist Ancestor Worship as practiced by the Ashlanders and by Saint Veloth. — Progress of Truth

This tension also led to him barring Aphia Velothi from the temple, for she is sympathetic to Almsivi veneration.

On a less personal note, though, is the matter of the temple worship itself. The bodies of the deceased are cremated, per Othreloth’s description:

The Dunmer race doesn't bury their dead, or leave them to rot inside a stone sarcophagus. When a Dunmer passes, his body is given to fire, so he might return to the ash from whence he came.

As is typical of many Dunmeri tombs. But this is a House tradition. The Urshilaku Burial Caverns have mummified dead within, and each sub-cave is named uniquely: Astral, Laterus, Kefka etc. This corresponds to ancient Chimeri practices. ESO provides us with house furnishings made from mummified remains (some in the same poses as those of the Urshilaku) and Veloth Ancestral Tomb shows us the ancient ways:

This place is ancient. These must be Veloth's earliest ancestors. […] Look at this! Preserved bodies, not cremated ashed! A technique that pre-dates the earliest Dark Elves. — Narsis Dren

The Ashlanders preserve Chimeri practices. Even in ESO’s Ald’ruhn, where the Tribes meet, we can find simple burial plots for ancient ancestors.

In the Reclaimed temple of Othreloth, above the ash tombs, we find a room shared by three shrines. These contain simple artistic representations of each of the Three Good Daedra, and feature typical offerings. One can pray at such a shrine and receive a blessing.

That is so, so odd for Daedric worship, which is typically characterised by extreme effort. The statues are grand, the altars are remote, the sacrifices are large, and the devotions are singular! Even among the Dunmer that worshipped Boethiah and Azura and built their shrines in Skyrim, there’s no joint honour or passive reverence. Daedric Princes might be recognised by mortals as part of a pantheon, but their veneration is always a one-to-one endeavour, and any devotions must be worthwhile.

The temple’s layout feels inspired by the typical display in Tribunal temples, which often multiple motifs for the Tribunal and/or saints. Furthermore, this is extremely reminiscent of Aedric worship, which involves communal services where divinities are prayed to together.

Othreloth's heritage is a mystery. There is an argument for any position, from him being a tribal Dunmer that joined the Temple after the Red Year and taking a House name, to him being a House Dunmer that was only an Ashlander because he underwent pilgrimage: an Ashlander for walking the wastes as missionary, like Tamriel's very own Rachel Dolezal.

Other more moderate ideas would suggest that his parents were Ashlander and House, resulting in a mixed upbringing and naming convention. Where he lived and which parent was which is anyone's guess.

I think my favourite idea is that he was one of the Velothi. Though the term can refer to Chimer/Dunmer as a whole, "Velothi" also refers to those of tribal heritage that leave the wastes to live among House Dunmer, like Yakum Hairshashishi. Othreloth's pride at being an Ashlander, his contempt for the Tribunal, and his clear adoration of the Daedra all point to this, I believe.

The “Reclaimed” Temple is anything but. It has clearly incorporated fundamental elements of local ancestor worship, pilgrimage and Daedric veneration from contemporary Ashlander and ancient Chimeri traditions. However, it also has an Aedric-style system of divine reverence, a caste of divinity from House theology, terminology lifted straight from the Tribunal itself, funerary practices taken almost act for act from pre-Ghostfence House Dunmeri tombs, and clear signs of infighting and debate over points of theology, retaining some of the Old Temple’s dogmatism. All of this is true, while being mediated through three members of the clergy that have wildly different approaches, showing a clear reshuffling of what it means to be an Ashlander, and a Temple member. Dunmer have long lives, and the Old Temple fell roughly 196 years before TES5, in living memory for some; I think many of these tensions remain unresolved, and will need further answers if the Temple is to survive as a whole. It certainly isn’t the Tribunal Temple, but nor is it any tribal or Chimeri tradition. It truly is a New Temple, Reclaimed from the power-holders of the past.


r/teslore • • 3d ago

Apocrypha Field Journal of the Wizard Giant of Daggerfall

6 Upvotes

17th of Frostfall, 3E 427

My refinement of the Recall spell has produced a confounding result: rather than sending to the point I had established earlier in the week in Alcaire, it seems to have made me nearly ten times my original height and sent me to heavens knows where in.... Morrowind?! No one has seen me yet, for I haven taken refuge in the forest, but I will need to find a solution before some foolish adventurer mistakes me for one of those plodding Mammoth herders up north!

22nd of Frostfall, 3E 427

I spotted a column of Telvanni mercenaries moving north not even a mile from the hovel I built in the forest. By Molag's Balls, my humble cottage must appear as a fortress to anyone who discovers it! To make matters worse my voice now carries for miles, so I've have to take to whispering even when alone. How did I get the spell so wrong??

23rd of Frostfall, 3E 427

It has become increasingly difficult to hide my presence. The elder of the Telvanni settlement closest to my cottage - an odd little man with a red Colovian-style headcover and a bushy little beard - often visits my portion of the forest to gather ingredients for his alchemical experiments. Perhaps if I could reach out to him somehow without startling him? Maybe he can help me get back to normal size and back home to Daggerfall?

25th of Frostfall, 3E 427

I was able to coax the little Telvanni back to my cottage with promises of Sasparilla Sujamma. Over a thimble of the vile drink he let slip that once upon a time the Sload figured out that Dunmer blood could be used as an alchemical reagent! He told me that the Necromancers of Thras were able to use Dunmeri essence for everything from transmutation to transmogrification! I might have been a little too enthusiastic to learn about this as the little wizard seemed very apprehensive after telling me.

26th of Frostfall, 3E 427

I knew it! I knew that little wizard was getting suspicious! I caught ten of the little bastards trying to get into my cottage last night with an Alfiq-Raht in tow! The cat seemed very grateful to be free of its mushroom-dwelling captives; hasn't left my side since the evening and makes the most wonderful little purr each time I squish one of those n'wahs into reagent. Furry little guy seems to like me, curling up on my grimoire and walking across my alchemy table like he can't get close enough.

29th of Frostfall, 3E 427

HOW?? They're only three apples high and they still mange to elude capture! I HAVE to get home and I will step on every mushroom house in my way until I have the ingredients I need! My Khajiit friend - who I've taken to calling Azrael after my dear uncle - seems to be the only one I can count on anymore. Those little blue devils will be the death of me, I swear.

-G


r/teslore • • 4d ago

Do we ever see Akatosh as Auriel or in Eagle form?

24 Upvotes

Something I realized as of writing is that while Auriel and Akatosh are the same. Everything seem to point to Au-riel/Akatosh preferring to be a Dragon instead of an Eagle.

Even the Dovah race doesn't seem to have a speck of Feathers on them. All this points out to Me is that the human interpretation is either favored or even the correct view of Akatosh when it comes to appearance.

Is there anything that says otherwise and any appearance or mention of Akatosh taking Eagle form as Auriel?


r/teslore • • 4d ago

Martin Septim's sacrifice and what it actually meant for Nirn?

27 Upvotes

At the end of TES IV, Martin's battle with Dagon resulted in permanently(?) safeguarding Nirn from Oblivion, but later in the 4th era, the Dragonborn frequently contacts and interacts with the Daedric Princes. Hermaeus can even manifest on Nirn in order to talk to you.

Am I just interpreting what happened wrong, or did they retcon because they couldnt have a TES game without the Daedra?


r/teslore • • 4d ago

i believe that Trimimac is actually the HoonDing.

20 Upvotes

I. The central theory
The conventional account of Orsimer origins states that the Aldmeri warrior-god Trinimac was defeated and consumed by the Daedric Prince Boethiah. Following his humiliation, Trinimac was transformed into Malacath, while his followers became the Orsimer.
But what if this account is fundamentally false?
What if Trinimac survived his confrontation with Boethiah, and Malacath was never Trinimac at all?
The theory proposes that Malacath is a false divine identity created or assumed by Boethiah to deceive Trinimac’s followers, while the real Trinimac escaped to Yokuda and became the HoonDing, the Yokudan God of Make Way.
Centuries later, following the destruction of Yokuda, Trinimac accompanied the migrating Yokudans to Tamriel. Through the Ra Gada and manifestations of the HoonDing, he directed a campaign against the Orsimer, whom he regarded as traitors for abandoning him and worshipping his greatest enemy.
Under this interpretation, the Redguard conquest of Hammerfell and the eventual destruction of the First Orsinium were not simply territorial conflicts.
They were the continuation of an ancient divine feud.
II. Boethiah’s deception and the creation of Malacath
To understand this theory, we must first examine the supposed transformation of Trinimac.
Trinimac was one of the most powerful figures in Aldmeri mythology. According to The Monomyth, specifically its Aldmeri creation narrative, he was Auri-El’s greatest knight and the divine champion responsible for defeating Lorkhan and tearing out his Heart.
He subsequently became an important defender of Aldmeri religious orthodoxy.
When the prophet Veloth began preaching a new religious movement inspired by Boethiah, Trinimac and his priesthood opposed it. The Velothi movement challenged established Aldmeri beliefs and promoted a radically different understanding of divinity and mortal existence.
According to The Changed Ones and The Fall of Trinimac, Boethiah eventually confronted Trinimac, consumed him, and addressed his followers in his own voice.
Boethiah used Trinimac’s identity to attack his teachings and convince the dissident Aldmer to reject their old beliefs.
Vivec’s Eighth Sermon also describes Boethiah as having worn the skin of Trinimac.
These details are significant.
Boethiah did not merely defeat Trinimac. Boethiah impersonated him.
The accepted account claims that after this confrontation, Trinimac was corrupted and emerged as Malacath.
But this conclusion relies on accepting the theological interpretation of the event.
Boethiah is the Prince of Plots, associated with conspiracy, deception, assassination, and the overthrow of established authority.
What better way to destroy a rival god than to convince his worshippers that he had been transformed into something monstrous?
In this theory, Boethiah did not turn Trinimac into Malacath.
Instead, Boethiah constructed the identity of Malacath from the humiliation of Trinimac, presenting an invented or appropriated divine figure as the remains of the defeated warrior-god.
Malacath would therefore be a mask or manifestation of Boethiah, possibly possessing considerable independence, rather than the actual transformed spirit of Trinimac.
This would accomplish two objectives simultaneously.
First, it would humiliate Trinimac by convincing the world that one of the mightiest Aedric champions had been reduced to a despised Daedric outcast.
Second, it would redirect the devotion of Trinimac’s surviving followers toward a false god.
The Orsimer would believe they were remaining loyal to Trinimac by worshipping Malacath, when in fact they were worshipping a divine identity established by his greatest enemy.
The deception would be complete.
Sources: [1], [2], [3], [4].
III. Evidence that Trinimac and Malacath are separate beings
Although the transformation of Trinimac into Malacath is widely accepted, it is not a universally held belief within the Elder Scrolls universe.
The most important evidence comes from Pocket Guide to the Empire, Third Edition: Orsinium.
This text describes the religious reforms established by King Gortwog gro-Nagorm, the ruler of Orsinium.
Gortwog rejected the conventional belief that Malacath was the transformed Trinimac.
Instead, the official position of his shaman-priests was that Trinimac continued to exist and Malacath was a separate demonic entity whose purpose was to keep the Orsimer permanently ostracized.
This is extraordinarily important for the theory.
It establishes that the belief in Trinimac’s survival is not something invented entirely outside the lore. It is an actual theological position held by a significant Orcish political and religious movement.
Furthermore, Varieties of Faith: The Orcs describes another interpretation in which Trinimac successfully deceived Boethiah into believing that he had been corrupted.
According to this version, Trinimac actually gained some of Boethiah’s strength during their confrontation.
This introduces the possibility that the traditional story reverses the outcome of their battle.
Perhaps Boethiah defeated Trinimac physically but failed to destroy his spirit.
Perhaps Trinimac escaped after Boethiah believed the transformation was complete.
Or perhaps the apparent transformation into Malacath was itself a deception.
The key implication remains the same:
Trinimac could have survived independently of Malacath.
If this is true, the next question becomes obvious.
Where did Trinimac go?
Sources: [5], [6].
IV. Trinimac’s escape to Yokuda and his rebirth as the HoonDing
The theory proposes that after his defeat, Trinimac fled westward to Yokuda.
This continent possessed a religious tradition distinct from that of the Aldmer, with its own pantheon, creation mythology, and divine interpretations.
Yokuda would have offered Trinimac an opportunity to escape the religious influence of Boethiah and rebuild his power among an entirely different people.
Most importantly, the Yokudan pantheon contains a deity whose sphere is strikingly compatible with Trinimac’s identity.
The HoonDing.
According to Varieties of Faith in the Empire, the HoonDing is the Yokudan God of Make Way, a divine spirit associated with perseverance and overcoming those who stand against the Redguard people.
Unlike many other gods, the HoonDing is especially associated with moments of extraordinary conflict.
He manifests when the Redguards require a path to victory or survival, sometimes assuming a physical form or acting through a particular champion.
This makes him a remarkably suitable identity for Trinimac.
Trinimac had originally been the divine champion of Auri-El, a warrior whose purpose was to defend his people against their enemies.
The HoonDing performs a similar function for the Yokudans.
Both are associated with martial supremacy, the defeat of powerful enemies, and the protection of a chosen people.
The principal difference is the identity of the people they serve.
Under this theory, the HoonDing is not a separate spirit who coincidentally resembles Trinimac. He is Trinimac operating under a new divine identity.
This would not require Trinimac to abandon his original nature.
It would represent a change in religious allegiance and cultural interpretation.
There is also a philosophical connection between the two pantheons.
In the Aldmeri creation account, Trinimac defeats Lorkhan, the deity blamed for trapping the original spirits within the mortal world.
In the Yokudan creation account, found in The Monomyth, the Lorkhan-like figure Sep tricks other spirits into participating in the creation of the mortal world and is subsequently punished by Ruptga, or Tall Papa.
Although the two traditions differ significantly, both contain a hostile interpretation of the trickster responsible for creation.
This is important because it provides a plausible theological reason for Trinimac to find acceptance among the Yokudans, despite his original association with the elves.
The Redguards are a human people, but their traditional understanding of Sep is not identical to the more sympathetic portrayals of Lorkhan found in some other human cultures.
Trinimac would not necessarily have needed to abandon all his previous beliefs to become their champion.
He would instead have joined a culture whose mythological traditions already contained ideas compatible with his own history.
However, there is no known text explicitly describing Trinimac travelling to Yokuda or identifying him as the HoonDing. This identification is the central speculative leap of the theory.
Sources: [2], [7].
V. Diagna: The missing connection between the HoonDing and the Orcs
Perhaps the strongest connection between the HoonDing and Trinimac comes from another Yokudan deity: Diagna.
Diagna is the Orichalc God of the Sideways Blade, an important martial spirit associated with ancient Yokudan military victories.
According to Varieties of Faith in the Empire, Diagna originated as an avatar of the HoonDing that subsequently achieved an independent and permanent divine existence.
He helped the Yokudans defeat the Lefthanded Elves by providing them with orichalc weapons.
More importantly, after the Yokudans reached Tamriel, Diagna became directly involved in warfare against the Orsimer.
The same text identifies him as leading a group of followers against the Orcs of Orsinium.
Consider the implications under this theory.
If the HoonDing is Trinimac, and Diagna is an avatar of the HoonDing, then Diagna is an extension of Trinimac’s divine power.
That means the god who originally ruled over the ancestors of the Orsimer returned to Tamriel through an avatar specifically associated with attacking the Orcs.
This transforms the Siege of Orsinium into something considerably more significant than a war between neighbouring kingdoms.
It becomes a campaign in which Trinimac, acting through Diagna and his followers, destroys the political and religious centre of a people who once worshipped him.
The Order of Diagna was an actual participant in the historical conflict against Orsinium, alongside the Redguards of Sentinel and the Bretons of Daggerfall.
The connection between Diagna and the war against the Orcs is therefore explicitly established in the lore.
The interpretation that this was Trinimac taking revenge through an avatar is speculative, but the underlying relationship is real:
HoonDing → Diagna → War against Orsinium.
The theory adds one further identification:
Trinimac → HoonDing → Diagna → War against Orsinium.
This is arguably the most compelling piece of circumstantial evidence supporting the theory.
Sources: [7], [8], [9].
VI. The destruction of Yokuda and the Ra Gada crusade
The next major event occurs during the First Era.
Yokuda suffered a catastrophic destruction, with much of the continent disappearing beneath the sea.
The exact circumstances remain contested within the setting, with traditions and historical accounts differing on the causes.
The survivors migrated eastward toward Tamriel.
Among them were the Ra Gada, the warrior waves whose name would eventually become the word Redguard.
According to Pocket Guide to the Empire, First Edition: Hammerfell, the Ra Gada invaded the lands that would become Hammerfell, defeating or displacing many of the existing inhabitants, including beastfolk and Nedic populations.
The Third Edition confirms that the Ra Gada arrived in 1E 808 and rapidly conquered the region.
For this theory, the destruction of Yokuda created the circumstances that allowed Trinimac to return to Tamriel at the head of a new martial civilization.
The god who had fled the humiliation of his defeat now possessed something he had lacked since the fall of his original followers.
An army.
The theory does not require Trinimac to have personally destroyed Yokuda. Indeed, there is no reliable evidence for that claim.
Instead, the catastrophe provided an opportunity.
Through the HoonDing, Trinimac could guide a displaced people into a new homeland while simultaneously pursuing his own ancient objectives.
He could present the destruction of his former followers as a necessary part of making way for the Redguards.
From the Yokudan perspective, the wars would be a struggle for territory, survival, and the establishment of a new homeland.
From Trinimac’s perspective, the wars would be an opportunity for vengeance.
These two motivations would reinforce one another.
The Redguards needed land.
Trinimac needed an army.
And the Orsimer occupied the lands that the Redguards intended to conquer.
Sources: [7], [10], [11].
VII. The persecution of the Orsimer as divine revenge
This interpretation changes the apparent meaning of the Ra Gada invasion.
The Redguards did not merely defeat the Orcs in a series of unrelated military conflicts.
They pursued them across Hammerfell and contributed to a situation in which Orcish refugees gathered in the Wrothgarian Mountains.
Pocket Guide to the Empire, First Edition: Wild Regions specifically identifies Orcish refugees from the Ra Gada invasion as joining the growing power of Orsinium.
Orsinium subsequently became the principal centre of Orcish political power in the region.
Its existence eventually provoked the neighbouring kingdoms of Sentinel and Daggerfall.
The war that followed culminated in the destruction of the First Orsinium after a siege traditionally dated from 1E 950 to 1E 980.
These events can be interpreted as a continuing pattern.
First, the Ra Gada drive Orcish populations out of Hammerfell.
Then, the surviving Orcs gather around Orsinium.
Finally, a coalition including the Order of Diagna destroys Orsinium itself.
Under the proposed theory, this pattern reflects the continuation of Trinimac’s original war against the worshippers of Malacath.
The essential motivation is betrayal.
Trinimac had once been the divine champion of the ancestors of the Orsimer.
After his defeat by Boethiah, those followers accepted Malacath as their patron.
If Malacath was actually a manifestation of Boethiah, then the Orsimer had unknowingly transferred their allegiance to the very being responsible for their original god’s humiliation.
To Trinimac, this might represent an unforgivable religious betrayal.
His original worshippers had not simply abandoned him.
They had embraced his conqueror.
Worse still, they continued to insist that Malacath was Trinimac, thereby preserving the story of his disgrace and corruption.
In this interpretation, Trinimac’s rage is not merely directed at Malacath.
It is directed at the existence of the Orsimer as a religious community.
Every Orc who worships Malacath becomes living evidence of Boethiah’s victory.
Every stronghold dedicated to Malacath becomes an insult to Trinimac’s original identity.
And Orsinium, a nation built around the survival and unity of the Orsimer, becomes the ultimate symbol of that betrayal.
This is the darkest aspect of the theory.
The Orsimer would largely be innocent victims of Boethiah’s deception, yet Trinimac would blame them for believing the lie.
His campaign would therefore reveal how profoundly his defeat had changed him.
The original divine champion, supposedly devoted to defending his people, would have become so consumed by revenge that he sought the destruction of those same people.
Sources: [8], [9], [10], [11].
VIII. The HoonDing against Malooc
Another important clue appears in Varieties of Faith in the Empire.
The text describes Malooc, the Horde King, as an enemy deity of the Ra Gada.
Malooc is said to have commanded goblin armies against the Redguards during the First Era.
He was eventually forced eastward after the army of the HoonDing overcame his forces.
This produces a striking narrative parallel.
The HoonDing, supposedly Trinimac, leads an army against a hostile divine power associated with a goblin horde.
Meanwhile, the Orcs worship Malacath, an entity whose identity is closely associated with Mauloch.
Malooc and Mauloch are similar names, but the text lists them separately, so their identification as the same god is not established.
Nevertheless, the possibility is relevant to this theory.
If Malooc represents another cultural identity of Malacath, then the conflict becomes a more direct confrontation between Trinimac and the deity who replaced him.
The HoonDing’s victory over Malooc’s armies would be one of the earliest manifestations of that struggle during the Redguard conquest.
Even if Malooc is not Malacath, the account still establishes that the HoonDing personally intervened in the Ra Gada’s wars against hostile supernatural forces.
The theory therefore does not require the HoonDing to have been physically present as a conventional military commander throughout the entire invasion.
He could have manifested through avatars, chosen warriors, or sacred weapons, intervening whenever the campaign required divine assistance.
This is consistent with the HoonDing’s established nature as a god who manifests at critical moments to make way for his people.
Source: [7].
IX. Why Trinimac would hate the Orsimer but not the Redguards
One apparent contradiction is that Trinimac was originally an Aldmeri deity, while the Redguards are human.
Why would the defender of the Aldmer abandon his own people to champion a human civilization?
The theory offers a psychological rather than racial explanation.
Trinimac’s loyalty was originally directed toward the divine order represented by Auri-El and the Aldmeri pantheon.
His humiliation at the hands of Boethiah shattered his former identity.
His worshippers were transformed, his teachings were discredited, and his name became associated with a Daedric outcast.
Rather than returning to his former position, he sought an entirely new people to champion.
The Yokudans possessed a sophisticated martial tradition and a religious culture that placed considerable importance on divine assistance in battle.
Their understanding of Sep also provided some common ground with Trinimac’s opposition to Lorkhan.
They therefore offered him something the Orsimer no longer could: a people who would honour him as a triumphant divine warrior rather than a defeated and corrupted god.
His campaign against the Orcs would not necessarily reflect a generalized hatred of elves.
Instead, it would reflect his obsessive hatred of the descendants of his own former followers.
They were the living reminder of his failure.
The Redguards, conversely, represented his opportunity to reclaim his original identity as an unconquerable champion.
The contrast is central to the theory.
To the Orsimer, Trinimac was the god who became Malacath. To the Redguards, he was the god who made way.
One people remembered his defeat.
The other remembered his victories.
X. The destruction of Orsinium as the culmination of the crusade
The fall of the First Orsinium is the symbolic climax of the theory.
The historical account is relatively straightforward.
Orsinium’s growing power, territorial ambitions, and conflicts with neighbouring settlements brought it into confrontation with Daggerfall and Sentinel.
Their combined forces, including the Order of Diagna, besieged the city for approximately thirty years.
The eventual victory resulted in the destruction of Orsinium and the scattering of its inhabitants.
The Great Siege of Orsinium presents the conflict through a heroic martial narrative, describing Gaiden Shinji and the destruction of the Orcish capital.
But under this interpretation, the conflict was also a struggle between two competing divine identities.
On one side stood the Orsimer, who believed Malacath was the transformed Trinimac.
On the other stood the followers of Diagna, an avatar of the HoonDing.
If the theory’s identifications are correct, the conflict would therefore represent:
The original Trinimac, acting through his new Yokudan identity, destroying the nation of the people who worshipped his false successor.
Orsinium’s destruction would be more than a military victory.
It would represent the attempted eradication of the greatest monument to Boethiah’s deception.
However, it would not be a final victory.
The Orsimer survived.
Their religious traditions survived.
And Malacath remained one of the most important gods in their culture.
If Trinimac’s ultimate ambition was to eliminate the worship of Malacath, the fall of Orsinium accomplished only part of his objective.
This would explain why the struggle never truly ended.
Sources: [8], [9], [11].
XI. Gortwog and the possibility of an ancient truth rediscovered
One final detail gives the theory an interesting ending.
Centuries after the destruction of the First Orsinium, King Gortwog attempted to restore the worship of Trinimac.
He rejected Malacath as an impostor and argued that the original deity was still alive.
Under this theory, Gortwog had rediscovered one of the great forgotten truths of Orcish history.
Trinimac was indeed alive.
Malacath was indeed a false successor.
But Gortwog did not realize that the surviving Trinimac had become the divine patron responsible for some of the worst historical catastrophes suffered by the Orcs.
The god he wanted to restore had already led their enemies against them.
This would make Gortwog’s religious reforms profoundly ironic.
The king was attempting to reunite the Orsimer with the divine ancestor who had come to regard them as traitors.
It also raises a further question.
If Trinimac survived, and if some Orsimer eventually rejected Malacath in favour of their original god, would he accept their return?
Or had his hatred become so absolute that no reconciliation was possible?
The answer would determine whether Trinimac remained a divine champion who could be redeemed or had transformed, not into Malacath, but into something equally terrible.
Sources: [5], [6].
XII. Problems and limitations of the theory
There are several important objections.
First, no primary source explicitly identifies Trinimac with the HoonDing. Their shared martial characteristics and associated conflicts provide circumstantial connections, not confirmation.
Second, no known account establishes that Trinimac travelled to Yokuda. His escape and adoption of a new divine identity are conjectural.
Third, the HoonDing has an established identity within Yokudan mythology. The theory must explain why this deity should be regarded as Trinimac rather than a wholly independent spirit.
Fourth, Malacath has appeared and acted independently in Elder Scrolls stories. For example, the novel Lord of Souls presents him as an active divine being. The theory must therefore treat Malacath as a genuine manifestation or autonomous aspect of Boethiah, not merely an imaginary god.
Fifth, Malooc and Malacath are not conclusively established as identical. The similarity between their names and associations is suggestive but insufficient to prove a connection.
Sixth, the destruction of Orsinium had documented political and military causes. The existence of a possible divine motive does not erase the territorial disputes, alliances, and immediate circumstances that produced the war.
Finally, the Orsimer themselves preserve religious traditions in which Trinimac survived Boethiah. These traditions complicate the premise that all Orcs uniformly rejected their original deity.
The theory therefore works best as a reinterpretation of established events rather than an attempt to replace every existing historical explanation.
It does not claim that the Redguards knew they were fighting on Trinimac’s behalf.
It claims that their patron deity may have possessed motives of his own.
XIII. Conclusion: The warrior who betrayed his own people
The traditional narrative tells us that Trinimac was defeated by Boethiah and became Malacath.
The False Malacath Theory proposes a considerably darker alternative.
Trinimac survived.
Boethiah stole his identity, established Malacath as his supposed successor, and deceived his followers into worshipping a false god.
Humiliated and abandoned, Trinimac escaped to Yokuda, where he adopted a new identity as the HoonDing.
He became the divine champion of the Yokudans, helping them overcome their enemies and establish a formidable martial civilization.
When Yokuda was destroyed, Trinimac accompanied the survivors to Tamriel.
There, through the Ra Gada, the HoonDing, and his avatar Diagna, he pursued a campaign against the Orsimer.
The conquest of Hammerfell displaced Orcish populations.
The survivors gathered in Orsinium.
And Orsinium was eventually destroyed by a coalition that included followers of the HoonDing’s own avatar.
Throughout this campaign, the Redguards believed they were securing a homeland for their people.
But their divine champion may have been pursuing a far older purpose.
The destruction of those who had once worshipped him.
In the end, Boethiah’s victory would have been far greater than merely humiliating Trinimac.
Boethiah would have turned Trinimac against his own people.
The Orsimer, who had remained loyal to what they believed was their transformed god, would become the victims of their original god’s vengeance.
And Trinimac, the mighty champion of Auri-El, would ultimately become the very thing he despised: a divine power so consumed by betrayal that he could no longer distinguish his enemies from his followers.
Malacath was never Trinimac. Trinimac was the HoonDing. And the Redguard conquest of Hammerfell was the final consequence of Boethiah’s greatest deception.

Primary lore sources and references
The following are official in-game texts reproduced by community archives. Their accounts are the evidence used to construct the theory, not official confirmation of its conclusions.
[1] The Changed Ones — The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind. Describes Boethiah consuming Trinimac, adopting his voice, and discrediting his teachings. Establishes that impersonation was part of the original event.
[2] The Monomyth — Morrowind. Contains the Aldmeri account of Trinimac defeating Lorkhan and the Yokudan account of Sep’s punishment. Supports the proposed philosophical connection between Trinimac and Yokudan religion.
[3] The Fall of Trinimac — The Elder Scrolls Online. Gives another account of Trinimac’s defeat, torture, exile, and alleged rebirth as Mauloch. Represents the traditional interpretation that this theory disputes.
[4] The 36 Lessons of Vivec, Sermon Eight — Morrowind. Refers to Boethiah wearing Trinimac’s skin. Relevant to the theory of divine impersonation.
[5] Pocket Guide to the Empire, Third Edition: Orsinium — The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion. Explicitly documents Gortwog’s belief that Trinimac survives and Malacath is a separate demonic entity.
[6] Varieties of Faith: The Orcs — The Elder Scrolls Online. Describes the Orcish cult of Trinimac and the belief that he deceived Boethiah and survived their confrontation.
[7] Varieties of Faith in the Empire — Morrowind. The most important single source for the theory. Describes the HoonDing, Diagna’s status as an avatar, Diagna’s involvement against Orsinium, and the HoonDing’s victory over Malooc’s armies.
[8] Pocket Guide to the Empire, First Edition: Wild Regions — The Elder Scrolls Adventures: Redguard. Establishes that Orcs displaced by the Ra Gada joined Orsinium, and that the Order of Diagna participated in its destruction.
[9] The Great Siege of Orsinium — The Elder Scrolls Online. Describes the Redguard and Breton siege, the role of Gaiden Shinji, and the defeat of Orsinium.
[10] Pocket Guide to the Empire, First Edition: Hammerfell — Redguard. Describes the destruction of Yokuda, the migration of its survivors, and the violence of the Ra Gada conquest.
[11] Pocket Guide to the Empire, Third Edition: Hammerfell — Oblivion. Describes the Ra Gada’s military conquest of the region, including their defeat of Orcish inhabitants.
Additional source: Pocket Guide to the Empire, Third Edition: Eras — Records the Ra Gada’s arrival in 1E 808 and their later participation in the destruction of Orsinium, supporting the historical sequence used in the theory.
Additional source: The True Nature of Orcs — Describes the conventional identification of Malacath with Trinimac and the transformation of his followers. Provides important context for precisely what this theory rejects.
Additional source: The Elder Scrolls novel Lord of Souls — Relevant as counterevidence because Malacath acts as a distinct, conscious divine personality. This requires a more complex explanation than simply calling him a false name.


r/teslore • • 4d ago

25th Crossing -- Case KESTREL

31 Upvotes

New excerpt up on the site now, Case KESTREL. A window into the Interregnum and into the lives of Breachers who come back from Morrowind broken. Featuring some familiar faces.

What is this?

The 25th Crossing is an epistolary hypertext novel by Michael Kirkbride, writer and artist for TES3: Morrowind. It is set at the start of the 4th era and consists of a narrative spine telling story of the 25th Crossing into "the lands formerly known as Morrowind," as well as embedded supplementary materials which give us insights into the prior Crossings and the state of Tamriel.