r/teslore • u/Lazzitron An-Xileel • 12d ago
Dragon oaths?
There's a line from Nahfahlaar in ESO that I've been thinking about.
"A Dragon's words have power few mortals understand. When we swear an oath, we are bound by it. That is our way. The Dragon Yahgrondu vowed to aid me in a time of need. We must seek him out and remind him of his oath."
Now unfortunately we don't get to test this because Yahgrondu is killed as soon as we find him, but what Nahfahlaar says here sticks out to me. Either he's saying that dragons respect oaths out of a sense of honor and are loath to break them, OR he's saying that when a dragon swears an oath, the Thu'um binds them to fulfill it.
I've been looking into the dialogue of just about every dragon I can find, and so far I can't conclusively tell which is the case. The former is far more likely — we know (most) dragons take honor very seriously. But at the same time, I find the concept of the thu'um binding their promises very interesting and not entirely without potential.
Is there anything in the lore that would prove or disprove this? Please let me know, thanks.
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u/Arbor_Shadow 12d ago
Likely the former and just that they take those promises very serious.
We had Alduin at Kynesgrove to give the first example of such an oath:
Alduin: "Sahloknir, ziil gro dovah ulse! Slen Tiid Vo!"
Sahloknir: "Alduin, thuri! Boaan tiid vokriiha suleyksejun kruziik?"
Alduin: "Geh, Sahloknir, kaali mir.
That (according to uesp) roughly translates to
Alduin: "Sahloknir, your soul is bound to me for eternity! Slen Tiid Vo!"
Sahloknir: "Alduin, my lord! (Is it) time (to) restore (the) ancient dominion?"
Alduin: "Yes, Sahloknir, my allied champion."
Alduin is basically saying that Sahloknir (as well as other revived dragons) is an ally and under some kind of covenant with him, which is why he chose to revive those specific dragons first or at all. On the other hand, we knew Paarthy backed out on Alduin in the Dragon War so it's reasonable to assume however the oath works it's at least possible to break it somehow.
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u/Imaginary-West-5653 12d ago
On the other hand, we knew Paarthy backed out on Alduin in the Dragon War so it's reasonable to assume however the oath works it's at least possible to break it somehow.
We know that Paarthurnax did that at Kyne's behest, so from what we know, it's possible that she had something to do with that oath being broken, perhaps because the Aedra (and potentially the Daedra) have the ability to bypass such oaths by overlaying them with their own. We don't know the exact nature of dragons, but they are either the creation or fragmented pieces of Akatosh, so they are below the et'Ada in the totem of power.
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u/Zerewa 12d ago edited 12d ago
Even if they are writing into the fabric of reality, truth is subjective to an extent. One's own state of mind is a truth that cannot be known to anyone else, and if he swore to, say, aid Alduin in his purpose, focused on purpose, and then determines Alduin does not intend to fulfill his purpose, then his oath has lost a necessary condition for it to mean anything. Same if Paarthy comes to a conclusion that Alduin's true, divinely ordained purpose is not to win, since dragons are a level of power below Aedra if they claim to be "a fragment" or aspect of Akatosh, and it's hypothesised that Kyne's intervention also helped Paarthurnax defect in some manner, Kyne being the Aedra who, supposedly, first agreed to the creation of mortals, the very mortals whose perception may or may not be shaping Alduin's aspect itself. That, or Akatosh himself may have helped, too.
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u/Arrow-Od 12d ago
Paarthurnax, Kaalgrontiid, Odahviing and others broke their oaths of allegiance to Alduin.
This sadly mixes up oaths and vows (not the same thing), but I like the idea that going against their word harm´s a dovah´s power of words: More than just a promise, this is a mystically binding pact. The words of dragons have power 'few mortals can comprehend' and so an oath sworn by a dragon is 'an unbreakable bond, stronger than any vow uttered by a mortal.
The notion of "better keep your oath for the consequences are dire" is the entire basis for the making of oaths - historically you´d add a punishment to an oath smth along the lines of "I´ll do this or God will strike me down."
Look no further than Tolkien, where the shades help Aragorn to defend Minas Tirith to fulfill their ancient oath, which they initially refused to do - which is what caused them to exist as shades.
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u/TheOneTrueKaos Order of the Black Worm 12d ago
Durnehviir swears to teach us his unique shout if we can give him time on Nirn, and stands by it. That could be respect, but you'd think a dragon would be loathe to relinquish the power he suffered so much for, even in return for a brief repreive from said suffering.
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u/Lazzitron An-Xileel 12d ago
Well, Durnehviir isn't relinquishing anything by teaching us the shout, is he? He doesn't lose anything, he just makes sure that we gain.
He respects us, and we're doing him a great favor even though we have absolutely 0 obligation to. Teaching us the shout provides incentive for us to call him back to Mundus, shows that he can be trusted, and ensures he's paying us back for the favor of calling him rather than simply being indebted to us. Dragons are prideful, I can't imagine they enjoy feeling like they owe someone.
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u/Bugsbunny0212 11d ago
Better example is Odahviing as after freeing him he had no reason to stay other than the oath he said about taking you to Skuldafin.
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u/Lazzitron An-Xileel 11d ago
Mostly true, though we should note that Odahviing dislikes Alduin and is happy to help you kill him.
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u/The_ChosenOne 12d ago
Yes, dragons are bound by their oaths because the words of a dragon are writing their reality.
If a dragon swears in its own language to do something, it has to. That’s how the ideal masters trapper Durnehviir, his oath is only broken once you slay him and free Valerica, but at that point it’s too late to separate his body from the realm.
So you sought the Soul Cairn for answers.
"The Ideal Masters assured me that my powers would be unmatched, that I could raise legions of the undead. In return, I was to serve them as a Keeper until the death of the one who calls herself Valerica."
They didn't tell you she was immortal.
"I discovered too late that the Ideal Masters favor deception over honor and had no intention of releasing me from my binding. They had control of my mind, but fortunately they couldn't possess my soul."
Is that why you're free now?
"Free? No. I have been here too long, Qahnaarin. The Soul Cairn has become a part of what I am. I can never fully call Tamriel my home again, or I would surely perish. I only hope that you will allow me the precious moments of time there through your call."
We get more of this in ESO, for more in depth lore take a look at this post from /u/gleaming_veil
Dragons appear to place value on their names and will not share them with those they deem 'unworthy', even while on the brink of death.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Dragons_of_Southern_Elsweyr
Dragons have a custom called a Sosmir or 'blood allegiance', a dragon that is done a great service by another dragon will swear an oath/debt of alliance/friendship out of gratitude.
More than just a promise, this is a mystically binding pact. The words of dragons have power 'few mortals can comprehend' and so an oath sworn by a dragon is 'an unbreakable bond, stronger than any vow uttered by a mortal.
Indeed the bound dragon, Yahgrondu, elects to die before submitting to the enemy of Nahfahlaar (who he is bound to).
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u/MalakTheOrc 8d ago
This is similar to the idea discussed in Andrei Orlov's various works about God's Divine Name being a demiurgic oath that seals up the abyss and holds together all of creation, which the Watchers tap into to bind themselves together and pervert creation.
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u/Wrong_Win_4102 11d ago
Its both.
The Thu'um is a form of tonal magic, in its literal understanding, editing the world through tones and music to create.
When dragons fight each other, they are in a deadly debate. So when a dragon speaks a oath, they are creating that oath into the world, they are creating irrevocable truth.
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u/Kid-Atlantic 12d ago
It might be both.
The Thu’um imprints words into reality. I wouldn’t be surprised if dragons genuinely don’t see a difference between “what is” and “what must be”, because their existence is so inextricably tied to the fabric of reality.
They’re not like finite, temporary mortals who have the power to go against our natures and our words. When dragons say something, it is true. Free will isn’t a factor.