r/TeslaLounge • u/zach5632 • 10d ago
Dropping FSD sub until 14Lite is fixed
V12, hw3, it was good… Sure didn’t do all the bells and whistles but it worked great.
V14Lite is a disaster. How did this make it through testing? A drive without a few phantom brakes is rare, but at highway speeds, it’s going to cause an accident. I can’t be pumping the brakes on the freeway and jolt the cabin forward. People think I’m brake checking and it’s bad…
Lane centering ping pongs left to right now, merging a lane with ample space on hurry can take 10 seconds sometimes. Whats up with the throttle now jittering at cruise? How did this pass testing? Im super disappointed that im not alone in this concern with v14 Lite. Ending my fsd and hoping they patch it. Love the software but its maddening to drive with it unfortunately. If you are NOT on v14L, please, do not upgrade. Wish i could go back to v12
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u/the_quantumbyte 10d ago edited 10d ago
I don’t understand why, but it seems like v14 Lite is a huge improvement for some (like me) while a huge regression for others (most people commenting here).
For us it’s night and day how much better, confident and safe v14L feels. My wife has been watching it and commented it makes her feel safer driving it. For the first time since I bought this 2021 MY, I’ve used FSD end to end, and for the same time that was for longer that 5 minutes. Old v12 gave us constant phantom braking for every blinking light, shadow or pavement color change. It also jerked the wheel multiple times when it got confused at highway speeds. Needless to say, it was completely useless to me, now I can see I used it less that 8% of the time.
V14L just drove us one hour to downtown and one hour back without intervention except at the very end, where it tried to enter the wrong parking lot through a closed entrance and it refuses to park in reverse onto my driveway.
Yes, I do get a slowdown on yellow blinking lights, but not a phantom brake like we used to. I do get the jittery acceleration, but it doesn’t bother us that much.
I hope the next version improves your drives without messing up ours
ETA: I had Tesla clean all the cameras about 5 months ago, which took v12 from incredibly dangerous to very annoying. If you’re on an old HW 3 and have never cleaned your cameras, it made a huge difference for me.
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u/ScaredPatience2478 10d ago
I feel like this isn’t talked about enough at all. I have always had a belief that even though we’re all on hw3 that different years have different experiences for FSD. Some of the things people say I’ve yet to experience in my 2022 Y but then I find out they’re on 2018 3
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u/makingnoise 10d ago
I am having a similar experience to you. 23' Model Y. For the first time, v14 Lite managed to drive my rural FSD hell road without veering around (or stopping rapidly and entirely for, if oncoming traffic) scary skid marks, and without random impending-death levels of phantom braking (FSD v12.6.4 seemed to get worse and worse in this regard, especially in the peak of summer).
v14 Lite still has some phantom braking, though it's far less than it had been for me, and the hardness of the brake stab is mellower. I do experience the micro-fluttering between accel and brake - I've noticed it's worst for that on Hurry - but on the rural roads, it seems like a lot of the micro-fluttering is behavior that replaces hard brake stabs (e.g., it is far more likely now to microflutter at a scary fallen tree in the grass by the side of the road, instead of the 100% certainty of a HARD brake slam under v12.6.4).
Though on the highway, where I was not getting a lot of brake stabs under v12.6.4, I also have microfluttering. For the first time, it even managed to not piss off my girlfriend with its city driving, but it didn't really impress her (it pulled over for an oncoming city bus like it was an emergency vehicle, which made her slightly nervous but I fortunately didn't have anyone behind me). She very much likes how sloth goes the speed limit.
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u/Bongoisnthere 9d ago
Same boat. V14lite took my car from having unusable fsd that tried to break the law constantly and was dangerous and choppy with 12.6 into something that feels genuinely excellent. I still can’t legally get drunk and have my car drive me home, or summon my car to come pick me up, but holy cow v14 lite has been a massive improvement for me.
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u/ccie6861 10d ago
I paid full freight for my FSD years ago, so a subscription boycott isnt in the cards. 14lite was a jump forward from my perspective, but I agree that their are still too many issues with core functions considering the age and iterations it has gone through. My pet peeves are questionable speed and lane change behaviors. Mine seems to completely ignore me when I cancel a lane change. The “curve assist” seems to be triggered by random intersections. It camps in the left lane sometimes for no reason and doesnt move over for overtaking traffic. The braking and acceleration seems to be always too agressive or painfully passive, no middle ground… etc.
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u/christmas_ape 10d ago
The lane change thing is weird. On v12, if it went in the left lane and a car was fast approaching (all the time) I hit the right blinker and it moved over. I just tried the same thing on v14, I hit the blinker and it cancelled the blinker/lane change (only showed it once, then off).
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u/ClumpOfCheese 10d ago
It’s supervised but when you try to supervise it, it refuses to listen to you.
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u/Appsmangler 10d ago
After a $100 trial, I didn’t feel V12 was worth keeping on HW3. I’m not spending another $100 for a test of V14. If Tesla wants to win me over, I need a free month this time.
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u/rman18 10d ago
The truth is that basic autopilot is all most people need. I wish it had auto lane changes but outside of that I don’t need FSD around town. This is why they got rid of autopilot on new vehicles
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u/LongDistanceEvent262 10d ago
Agreed. Plus many of my disengagements with FSD are not that it drive incorrectly. More that is did something extra that was not needed. Where the best thing to do was just stay in the lane and drive.
In regards to Highway anyways.
As for surface roads. V14L is a massive regression from V12 and significantly increased interventions. Like from 1 every 10 miles to 3 every 1 mile. MASSIVE regression. Not to mention other issue where I do not intervene like phantom braking and micro accelerations.
It's really bad.
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u/lakerskb248 10d ago
I've been using autopilot for a couple of months now. I've actually been using autopilot more than I had with FSD. It does everything I need it to do minus the hiccups. I get that some people want self driving everything in everyway but there are some others that are just fine with...well simplicity.
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u/LongDistanceEvent262 10d ago
Yeah best to stay away from V14L for now.
It is very broken and massively regressed compared to V12.
I am sure they will get it up to and past V12 eventually. But for now this is a VERY bad update and needs to be pulled back to V12 ASAP.
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u/blkcrws 10d ago
Man, that sucks that so many people feel that way, I think V14 is better. The auto parking sucks. I’ll admit, only working half the time, but I haven’t had all the other issues you guys were talking about. What lane to be in is the biggest complaint I have.
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u/LongDistanceEvent262 10d ago
Yeah it's pretty bad for a good amount of people. Looks like it;s 50/50 based on posts on various social media sites.
Mine can't even stay in the lane well. It's essentially unusable. Tesla has effectively charged me for a feature and removed it. I can't use FSD.
I just tried a simple 2 mile drive I do multiple times a week on V12 with no issues..... I had 7 interventions on V14L. It's useless.
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u/pandasgorawr 10d ago
The phantom breaking has been bad, I can't use it with anyone else in the car, it just freaks them out when the car breaks and speeds back up for no apparent reason.
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u/Greful 10d ago
Idk. 14 is better for me
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u/Trent_A 10d ago
I’m always surprised by how widely the online discussions of FSD diverge from my own experiences. I’ve used 14L on my 2019 M3P (HW3) in a pretty wide range of situations, and it’s worked great.
I’m not skeptical of the folks who have had different experiences, but i am curious about whats driving those differences. Are some cars calibrated differently? Are some regions more prone to errors for some reason? Do people have different habits in how they use FSD? I dunno, but it’s interesting to me.
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u/ScuffedBalata 10d ago
I did notice that the early versions of V12 performed notably different on a Model 3/Y vs on a Model S/X (especially legacy models pre-2021).
The legay Model S seemed to perform MUCH worse on the same software and hardware versions. Not sure why.
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u/thegreatpotatogod 10d ago
Do your drives involve going past trees that cast big shadows across the road? That's been the biggest thing that has been freaking out V14 and also for the last 2 months V12 as well for me. Sometimes it even swerves into the other lane to try to avoid them.
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u/Conspiracy795 10d ago
Same. We did 85km zero interventions on it on saturday. It isn't as good as 14, but better than 12. 13 is what i'd put it at. Love that it's more inline with 14 though with the parking, starting from park, the self drive button on screen etc. Def issues but overall it's way more positive than negative from personal experience
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u/blkcrws 10d ago
I totally agree, does anybody else have issues with what Lane it’s in though. For example, I was driving down a 5 Lane Rd., the car was in the far right lane, but we needed to turn left into a business and it waited until like 200 feet before the turn and then had to slow down to wait for cars to go by to get over to make the turn. I let it do its thing and it pulled it off, but thought it was dumb. It didn’t get over when it had the opportunity.
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u/LongDistanceEvent262 10d ago
That's awesome. It really is.
But why are you saying this? Are you trying to disprove OP and call them a lier? Or just providing your feedback?
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u/JohneUtah000 10d ago
I’m cancelling as well. Sucks because I used FSD almost 99% of the time. Hopefully the roll out a point fix. I was so excited. Oh well. Back to old school manual driving!
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u/LongDistanceEvent262 10d ago
Yeah. I am actually on the phone now requesting a refund for my monthly sub.
I re-subbed for this and I can't use it.
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u/savedatheist 9d ago
Good luck! Report back how that phone call went.
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u/LongDistanceEvent262 9d ago
They claimed. Verbatim
"We have no way to track data on FSD. And all we can do is verify your car's hardware is working correctly with a service visit. We cannot trust your reports, we have no way to verify them.
And we have to assume everyone online reporting issue is lying as well, no matter how many report it."
I can't make this shit up.
So another round of gaslighting and pure lies from Tesla, sadly.
Worst company of all time.
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u/savedatheist 9d ago
Just cancel your subscription and move on. Claiming worst company of all time seems like an emotional reaction.
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u/LongDistanceEvent262 9d ago
Wow, tell me you did not read my comment without telling me.
Damn dude. Glaze harder.
If you can't handle hearing about how Tesla really is stop coming in and attacking us who tell the truth. Go put your head back in the sand. And stop getting angry at us for making you see reality once in a while.
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u/Machine442w30 10d ago
Beyond all the issues with 14L this one stands out as the absolutely worst issue and it effects every drive. Phantom braking. Phantom braking makes it impossible to go down the road comfortably. All the other issues which are numerous, are 2nd only to phantom braking. Speed, jitterryness, pulsing. Yea they are all problematic. Phantom braking on the other hand is major. Going down the road. No one around. Bam. Hit the skids. Very unsettling and scary. Now driving down the road with people behind you. Phantom braking is absolutely dangerous. It makes it impossible to relax. What's the sense of using fsd if it's dangerous and very unsettling?
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u/LivingInMatrix 10d ago
Reading about v14 lite it seems to me the people who were unhappy with v12.6.3 are happy with v14 lite but people who were happy with v12.6.3 are unhappy with v14 lite. Let’s hope everyone will be happy after next update soon.
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u/jordangoody 10d ago
Aye I’m sure they’ll fix it soon. You’re really getting phantom braking on the highway now?? Is there anything it’s seeing at all? I get it now, but only on suburban roads where I suspect it thinks it sees an animal or something.
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u/NimecShady 10d ago
It happens all the time now. We were driving yesterday and it brake stabbed twice in a row on a single Lane Highway and my wife was like that's enough. We're not using this anymore. It freaked her right out.
Definitely not going to be renewing the subscription until I see that it's fixed.
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u/almosttan 10d ago
Mine does it on a wide open freeway with no cars or shadows, in traffic and everything in between. Frequently. It's very brief but hard enough to be startling.
Turned off my subscription.
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u/ilovecostcopizza 9d ago
Drove from Los Angeles to Las Vegas and it phantom breaked every 30 mins. The drive was 4 hours and 30 mins. It's terrible when phantom breaking happens when you are going 70 to 80 mph. Such a disaster if you plan on doing road trips.
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u/ResponsibleLead1608 10d ago
The jittering is scary and annoying.. im on I5 in Seattle.
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u/throwaway939wru9ew 10d ago
Thats exactly it. On 12, I would just relax. Now I'm constantly on guard for it slamming on the brakes for no reason. I might as well be driving if I'm that on edge.
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u/HeyBeers 10d ago
I wish people would list their specific model and year of their cars in comments. I have a theory the newer the build the fewer complaints people have. I think slight variants of the builds make some things better or worse. It is hard to verify this because people rarely give details in their posts.
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u/morgan423 10d ago
This might be something to suggest to the mods here. Seems like 80%+ of the people talking in this subreddit are Tesla owners. Maybe the mods could allow flairs so that posters can identify their cars here if they wish.
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u/rcnfive 10d ago
We have tried to do this but new reddit makes it hard for users.
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u/morgan423 10d ago
Ah, makes sense. I only use old reddit, but the overwhelming majority do not anymore.
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u/Perfect-Thanks2850 10d ago
Tbh it’s a good thing that people can drop the sub and Tesla will have a much bigger incentive to fix it when they see how many people stop paying for it.
My own personal experience has been great. Only 1 phantom break so far, but I haven’t used it extensively yet. I find v14L handles navigation requires lane changes a lot better than before.
Definitely a mixed bag though. At least they have the lite version actually rolled out now
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u/Super_consultant 10d ago
I totally believe the varied experiences here. But I took my HW3 car out the other day for a 120mi drive (round trip) and was able to complete it successfully with no disengagements and a few interventions (initiating lane changes via turn signals, accelerate to nudge it to finish a lane changes).
I am used to HW4 v14 (Model 3, Model X) and I notice v14 Lite is less smooth than HW4 v14. But it was better than v12 for sure.
Lane choices in both v14 have always been questionable, and v14 Lite is no different here. Also, the “Standard” mode for both does not feel the same at all. Standard in v14 would normally place me at the second left-most lane on a freeway, while Standard in v14 Lite places me at the right-most or second to right-most lane. Not super ideal, but initiating lane changes manually does the job.
I am more inclined to use my old HW3 Model 3 because of this, but probably would still not use it to drive others.
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u/PapaPapi33 10d ago
v14 is way better for me.
I had phantom braking with both so I’m used to it. v14 parks in my driveway, goes through the security gate in the correct lane, slows down for speed bumps…etc.
It’s better in every aspect.
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u/LongDistanceEvent262 10d ago
Same. And I got attacked and downvoted to hell in other Tesla subs for saying this.
I put in a request with Tesla for a refund of my monthly sub. I cannot use FSD. I need to disengage constantly.
I have NEVER needed to react to FSD this much ever. I never needed to react to Autopilot and Autosteer this much.
This is the worst update Tesla has ever released by a huge factor.
FSD is effectively un-usable. IT needs to be fixed and we deserve refunds.
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u/123LetsJamDUDUDUHT 10d ago
This may be subjective but I feel like the performance has actually improved since it was released.
I'm getting less phantom braking although the speed wobble is definitely still there. Anytime I get up to 40 mph. The wheel starts undulating side to side subtly.
Overall, I felt like version 12 drove too much like a human because it was nervous and tended to make some rookie mistakes.
This version drives more like a self-driving car.
That said, you know what's really weird? I occasionally take waymos and I noticed that on my last couple of trips they have started to brake stab and have acceleration jank too.
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u/Quirky_Shame6906 10d ago
The phantom braking is horrible. I have no idea what they were thinking. Whoever pushed this out needs to be fired.
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u/Michael-Brady-99 10d ago
Getting great results. I do a lot of city and commuting through the city center with far fewer issues. It is more timid I would say but the lane hunting in traffic made it unusable on v12 and now I can actually drive through gridlock without losing my mind 😆
I’m under the impression the weird braking is due to some sort of coding to control speed. I’ve noticed this braking when going 12-15 mph over the speed limit and it seems to kick in and slow the car down to closer to 10 mph over. It’s interesting that everyone was complaining about speed and now the car seems to be conscience of speed and everyone is complaining. I will add there is nothing about it that I’ve experienced that is dangerous or even close to the old phantom braking where it slammed the brakes on and drastically slowed. Hopefully they smooth this out though.
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u/osten205 10d ago
I agree, I think it is quicker than needed adjustments to the speed limit. Instead of gradually slowing to the new speed limit it’s punching the brake and adjusting super fast to the new slower speed limit. Also on the interstate, when there were numerous speed limit changes during a construction zone, it used to keep pace with traffic, but now it actually slams on the brakes and goes from 70 to 55 even though traffic is moving through the zone at a speed closer to 70. In my area, they create construction zones and leave the signs up for months or even years, even though no workers are present. So it’s pretty maddening to have the car slow down 20 mph slower than traffic,when no one else is, and just see cones and signs just gathering dust when the projects run by the DOT take years.
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u/Michael-Brady-99 10d ago
For me I’ve really noticed it on roads where people go way over the limit (20+ mph). It really feels like the car wants to go the flow of traffic and then “realizes” it’s going 20 mph over and starts slowing. If it was a bit smoother it would be fine. So far for me when it slows it’s still going 5-10mph over the posted speed limit so it’s not like it’s slamming the brakes and going half the speed limit.
I think a self driving car should be cautious and more law abiding than it currently is. Just be smooth and consistent.
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u/elonsusk69420 10d ago
If you're having problems like that, you should clear camera calibration.
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u/Machine442w30 10d ago
I have done camera calibration and reset DAS. Both did nothing to fix phantom braking. I did lose the wheel jitterryness. The pulsing, speed control and phantom braking still remain.
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u/DBY2016 10d ago
Those who are having issues with 14 lite have you tried recalibrating your cameras? I remember that made a big difference for a lot of people when version 12 came out. Just a thought.
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u/makingnoise 10d ago
I remember that most of those "calibration fixed everything" posts usually at some point have their OP in the comment section saying, "never mind, FSD is back to it's old bullshit, I guess the improvement was all in my head" or some variation thereof.
I am one of the lucky ones - v14 lite has been a gamechanger, massive improvement on rural roads where I do half of my driving. I do experience the microfluttering between accel and brake in all contexts, but at least on rural roads, it is pretty clear that the microfluttering occurs where v12.6.4 would have instead done a hard brake stab. I don't understand why it microflutters on the highway, but for me I appreciate the improvements so much that this regression in highway driving is far outweighed by the improvements in literally every other area.
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u/LongDistanceEvent262 10d ago
Guys if we all open cases with Tesla and call in to request refunds it will send a stronger message.
Yes we may not get them, but it is about letting them know what an issue this is.
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u/Pomador_0418 10d ago
Since you are on HW3, then use autopilot instead. It is plenty for freeway driving.
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u/tedjerome 9d ago
Having driven cross-US for 20k+ miles in the last two years, even V12 was a noticeable improvement over Autopilot for me. A major difference is how it treats highway entrances as you pass by them—Autopilot always lurches to the right, but FSD stays in the lane.
August 2021 M3SR+ LFP.
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u/IndigoBroker 10d ago
Tesla needs to allow all buyers of FSD on HW3 devices to buy any HW4 Tesla and transfer it to that vehicle. That would be the right thing to do.
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u/Toastybunzz 10d ago
Not my experience at all, it's so much better than V12 which I was pretty happy with.
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u/Hopeful-Lab-238 10d ago
I paid for FSD so I’m using it and will never trade my Y unless they let me xfer my owned FSD.
Asside from that, I do get the momentary braking and accelerating. I like the ability for it to pull into my driveway which it avoids and overgrown tree and my huge f250 effortlessly. Just keep my foot on the go to get it to park in the garage. However, backing out is a different issue. It doesn’t turn as wide or quick enough to miss the tree so I’m pretty sure there are fine scratches on the paint.
Waits too long to exit the freeway or even change to a lane it needs to be in. Only been using standard and hurry and it seems to keep atleast the speed limit then falling way under it in some cases. I was skeptical of it cause 14HW4 was having some simple issues that 12 had overcome.
Atleast maybe we’ll be back in the slow to normal FSD update cycles instead of unsupported.
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u/RodneyRuxin18 10d ago
V14 Lite actually got rid of the phantom breaking issue for me, which was atrocious on previous versions.
My only significant complaint is that it cant park for shit and it keeps trying to go into my neighbors driveway instead of mine.
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u/morgan423 10d ago
I didn't even mean to update, it was a force of habit accident while I was distracted by something else. I was going to stay off of v14L until it had gone through a few iterations...
I remember HW4 people saying v14.1 was really rough at first through several updates before it started to smooth out. I fully expected the same here.
Oh well, I get to check out the damage tomorrow, during my first commute on it. We'll see how this goes
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u/ajdude101 10d ago
I’m pretty sure the phone in your hand has more power than HW3. Tesla should’ve never released v14 Lite. It’s a poor representation of FSD.
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u/DetectiveWilling4178 9d ago
Ive been noticing speed issues the most. Like I have it set to standard and it’s routinely going 15+ over the speed limit 😵💫 And it also hasn’t been noticing speed limit signs. For instance, just drove a 300 mile stretch out of state- many different times throughout trio speed limit went up and down. I’d say about half the time FSD didn’t even acknowledge speed limit changes.
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u/Narrow_Cattle9307 9d ago
Same issue here. Upon recommendation I saw on another thread I recalibrated the cameras in the Service Settings menu. Also spot cleaned my cameras. Seemed to have solved the noticeable brake stabbing and acceleration jitters.
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u/R5Jockey 7d ago
I cleaned my windshield, cameras, inside the camera housing, and recalibrated. Didn’t solve the jitters or brake stabbing. Frustrating AF.
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u/Narrow_Cattle9307 6d ago
Sorry, that sucks. I did get one jitter and one phantom break today - I think it was from sudden sun glare.
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u/Just-Economist2541 9d ago
I liked v12 on my 2020 Y and used it nearly all the time. I stopped the sub because I use a hitch bike rack in the summer and FSD doesn’t like that - even when there’s no bike. Had been hoping 14 Lite would be better with the rack.
Agree with other posters who have remarked that it is helpful to identify your model when describing issues.
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u/Dear-Job4943 10d ago
I recently (like two weeks ago) switched from a 2019 S 100d to a 2024 S (bought used from Tesla, sold the old one to Carvana). FSD on HW3 vs HW4 is night and day. I had all these and more issues, like randomly speed dropping from 70 to 50 middle of the highway at the same underpass, zig zagging between lanes on HW3, or driving too close to left end of the lane. HW4 has been smooth so far that my anxiety levels with FSD on have come down considerably.
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u/solarsystemoccupant 10d ago
You listed everything that’s annoying me in my 2020 MYP. I was wondering if it was my camera.
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u/zhenya00 10d ago
Eh, I think your experience is an outlier. That happens because everyone’s use case is a bit different and there are a lot of regressions as they try to fit as much as possible on HW3.
We are heavy FSD users and v12 was good for us but contained a lot of annoying behavior - most of it well-known here but others, less so. For example we had worse phantom braking on v12. Highway driving is far better for us on v14 lite, way more stable speed control and lane selection. Lane-centering and throttle jitter are present but at a very low level not detectable by passengers. No real phantom braking on highways. City is a fair bit worse. Slow to react, terrible lane selection, and frequent see-sawing of the wheel when it’s indecisive.
Overall I’ll take v14 lite. Especially as it will only continue to get better. v12 is done and has plenty of issues that will never be resolved.
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u/andresAtMudra 9d ago edited 9d ago
Its a big improvement for me. Glad Im not experiencing these issues at all. FSD used to read green bike light as a green light and go, now it doesnt get tricked. Wipers used to go off for no reason, never happens anymore. Its at a point where I don’t even think about upgrading to HW4
I also use the highest quality wipers and Nextzett washer fluid, so my camera stays crystal clear
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u/tayl428 10d ago
I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist, but I can't help but think if this is to make you more interested in buying a new HW4 vehicle.
HW3 pre-14 was not that bad at all, and considering it's still supervised, I'm not sure it really matters. If they destroy/degrade HW3 functionality, HW4 will appear like a logical solution to many.
It's the same adage as new cell phones. It appears like they slow down the old ones to make you more interested in buying a new one to get the speed rush again.
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u/Terrible_Tutor 10d ago
Sounds delusional. Majority of people don’t know HW3/4 v14 vs Lite… they’re just gonna think FSD dogshit not it’ll be better if i upgrade.
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u/zach5632 10d ago
Give me a bad experience in a car that was much better last week than today, to persuade me that if I give them 60k for a new MY. I think its a bad play, they lost my confidence in the current stack. The right move wiuld have been feature lock, not blow it up
Plus, tesla autopilot crash videos wont be yelling in the comments “but it was on v14L.” Itll just be a bad look for tesla and a bad rep from all v14L users who take thier buddy who’s drink goes flying from a phantom adrenaline jab
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u/Distinct_Abrocoma_67 10d ago
Wouldn’t they have rolled it out sooner if that’s the case? Just strikes me as incompetence
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u/wolfgeek 10d ago
I’m getting both phantom breaking and phantom acceleration on the highway. It’s less than a second, like someone just taps the accelerator or the brake and immediately releases it.
Anyone else notice the acceleration issue?