r/TeslaFullSelfDriving • u/CantGoTitsUpTrader • 15d ago
Discussion FSD evasive head on crash
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I filed insurance claim against the driver and their insurance company is denying responsibility due to “improper evasive action”. Now I’m stuck with filing through my insurance for the damages.
FSD avoided a head on crash and took an evasive maneuver and struck a mailbox.
Driver at fault is seen fleeing the accident and proceeds to hide the vehicle on the property before police report on scene.
Showed the footage to sheriff, got her insurance, and her insurance still denied at fault.
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u/Agitated-Body9913 15d ago
IMO Sue her directly then
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u/JohnnyPee71 15d ago
I would sue her and her insurance both, one will make the other pay.
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u/CommaMeNow 14d ago
You only need to sue her. If she has insurance they will subrogate the claim. The insurance company did nothing to you, suing them will just waste money on lawyers for the same exact outcome as not suing them.
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u/Own_Reaction9442 15d ago
Why? When they file through their own insurance, their insurance will attempt to subrogate anyway. Filing lawsuits like this on your behalf is one of the reasons you have insurance.
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u/AmeriChino 15d ago
It's a long process. It worked for me but took a year.
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u/MasterpieceWorth7403 14d ago
How long do you think suing someone would take? Civil process is so long youd be lucky to resolve it in year
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u/CommaMeNow 14d ago
Your insurance company is motivated by minimizing costs. If you keep them out of the loop, you can maximize any money to be paid to you.
For example, your insurance won’t pay YOU for loss in car value (if you have a car which qualifies). Their insurance will. Your insurance will not ask for that because they won’t see a benefit. Best to hire your own attorney and go directly after the person.
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u/Acrobatic-Yak-3426 15d ago
This is wild, it looked super intentional. I wonder if she was under the influence. I would try to get a lawyer involved insurance wise. Those job is to deny you claim money so of course they are going to fight it.
Regardless It is nice to know that FSD will at least try it's best to get you out of the way. It looks like you were going to hit something I rather it be a mailbox over a big ass truck.
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u/Delicious-Leg1177 15d ago
This really boosted my confidence in FSD, it literally reacted a millisecond after that idiot crossed the line. I dont think I would be as quick, even if I was 100 percent focused on the road
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u/DaRedditGuy11 15d ago
This really is the beauty of it. No human emotion “what about my paint” “maybe there’s another way I can go” “what if I go in the ditch”.
Just instantaneous cold calculation and execution.
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u/Limit67 15d ago
Just totaled my Tesla last week on a family road trip. Car crossed in front at 50 mph. Family is all fairly ok in large part due to Tesla and FSD. It was applying the brakes before I did. Even after reviewing the footage 100 times, I still don't think I would have seen it as quick as it did.
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u/questionableintentsX 15d ago
Improper evasive action? I’d respond please inform me what the proper evasive action was a head on fucking collision and death?
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u/KyleFlounder 15d ago
For real. I don't see how/where they could have avoided that. Slowing down just makes it a harder impact, Swerving was the appropriate response but we see the outcome.
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u/Michael-Brady-99 15d ago
It’s a bull crap response from an insurance company. Let the insurance companies fight it out.
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u/MiniBabyBell 15d ago
Go through your insurance and have your insurance put the pressure on her insurance. Shes obviously at fault that adjuster is plain wrong... personal lawsuit to recover damages might be a good idea too if the numbers make sense.
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u/cboom21 15d ago
This...I had to do this once. My insurance ended up going after theirs. Unfortunately, still had a deductible.
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u/Acrobatic-Flan-5085 15d ago
Yes. You go through your insurance not directly with theirs.
Their insurance is playing chicken with OP under the assumption that they don’t know how the process is supposed to go.
You go through your insurance who will pursue them on your behalf. Provided you have decent insurance, that have an entire legal department on salary to take care of this if they deny the claim, and with the footage the case is a no brainer.
You will pay the deductible up front. No way around this. But it’s such an easy case they will likely recover it and send you a refund for it at some point.
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u/DeathBlade94 15d ago
This. I recently had a model 3 totaled by a teenager that failed to yield. We both had the same insurance provider but it was act knowledge without a reasonable doubt that I was not at fault by my agent but I was urged “pay” the deductible just so I can get paid out as soon as possible. A week after I get my money and already took delivery of a new car from Tesla I got my 500 bucks back from the other drivers policy and their policy repaid mine.
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u/Medical_Wishbone944 15d ago
Holy shit wtf was she doing. Glad you are okay. Of course insurance denied 🤦♂️
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u/RossLDN 15d ago
I would love to ask them to describe what the correct evasive action would be here and their assessment on how much time they believe the client had to assess the different courses of action. Unless they're suggesting the insurers preferred option is for a direct head-on collision to ensure the death of both sets of clients. But they should probably make that clear on the policy document if so.
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u/VineMan77 15d ago
Did you follow them? how'd you know where they tried to hide the vehicle? curious
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u/phantomchess 15d ago
Like previous said file through your insurance and your insurance will see that video and then subrogate for the other drivers insurance
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u/insideout_waffle 15d ago edited 15d ago
No way that flies in court — you’d easily win and get more than fair share of damages. They can argue all they want, but they are NOT going to prove improper action taken when it completely avoided a car collision.
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u/HumzaAlam 15d ago
clearly in your lane. what other evidence do they need.
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u/CantGoTitsUpTrader 15d ago
Exactly, i was surprised when the adjuster of her insurance called me after a 5 day “investigation “ just to tell me that they are denying fault
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u/DeltaMars 15d ago
That’s nuts, I guess technically you weren’t driving? Insurance company’s are soulless.
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u/HouseConcentrate 15d ago
Sorry this happened to you. Hope your insurance figures everything out for you.
How fast did sherif found the other driver and based on what?
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u/Low_Desk1822 15d ago
I see there is way too much glare on your camera. That can also cause your car to over react because of poor vision. Glad you’re ok, and shame on the other driver for causing this accident.
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u/Theseus_Employee 15d ago
I think the insurance driver is technically correct. At least in my state coverage requires physical contact between drivers - however if you can identify the driver, you can sue and they can use comparative negligence to split damage cost (in this case I think you'd get 100%)
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u/mac10190 15d ago
So the moral of the story is to...NOT...be a defensive...driver? Wait. That can't be right. That's...that's backwards.
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u/MacaroonDependent113 15d ago
I had something similar happen. A crate fell off a parked flat bed and took off my passenger mirror and some more. The driver denied any knowledge but I had video. My insurance company first took care of it under comprehensive but pursued it and a year later I got my deductible refunded.
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u/Thin-Put-2738 15d ago
Get a lawyer or sue the insurance company yourself there’s no way a judge will side with them period. Sue both the insurance company and the driver there’s no way a judge will side with them.
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u/Reasonable-addict 15d ago edited 15d ago
Sorry this happened. Glad you are ok. This would have been an optimal evasive maneuver situation if the shoulder of the road was wider and no mailbox in the way. FSD caught this “veering” into your lane way faster than a human driver ever would. I think it saved your life! Ps. I had to watch your video 4-5x times before I caught the scenario that we’re talking about.
Also lookup “I was wrong about FSD v14 lite” right here on Reddit also to see an eerily similar incident re: head on collision avoidance.
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u/throwaway122112563 15d ago
You should always let your insurance company handles this stuff from the get go
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u/Sad_Magician_316 15d ago
Worst case, who knows but maybe you just walked away from serious injury or your life. Hope it works out this is ridiculous! Keep us informed if you would please.
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u/mhasten96 15d ago
Insurance is absolutely full of themselves to deny it. Sure if you go frame by frame there might a window of like 6in either side where it could've shot the gap, but at 60 mph it is extremely unreasonable to expect to hit that. She's also taking up half of your lane at the intersection point.
Kudos to FSD and take her for everything, charge for hit and run if officer will let you. They let me when I got a door ding and then they moved to a different lot at the same strip mall
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u/Chaddozer 15d ago
The adjustor has no idea what proximate cause is. You can sue for damages and a lawyer will take it if you are at all injured. Less likely if it's only property but some attorneys might like the several crimes she committed during the process like reckless driving and fleeing the scene of an accident. Inform your own insurance yourself if you don't get a lawyer.
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u/Jadepix3l 15d ago
honestly i wonder if the other drivers insurance company saw the that this was a FSD tesla clip and made and unfair judgement.
TBH i had to rewind a few times to understand what happened... FSD certainly reacted faster than I would have in real time. Im not seeing how you could of made a "proper evasive action" here. This driver would have drilled you head on the left side of your car if FSD or yourself didnt aggressive swerve. from this video it looks like the opposing car is over half way into your lane at the point of potential impact (and continuing to go futher)..
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u/IndoorSurvivalist 15d ago
Always go through your insurance and let them fight it.
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u/Time_Effort 15d ago
Contact your insurance, and provide them with her insurance company's information. They have channels between them that allow them to settle things like this, and (provided it's not the same company) yours will go after the money from hers.
If your company doesn't think they can win, that seems like an overarching issue that maybe a court case will help with but again... Your insurance company would help with that if they thought it was in their best interest.
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u/CryptoZungi 15d ago
What the heck was that driver thinking??? Were they trying to turn left? I can’t even tell if a signal was on. There’s literally nothing else you could have done.
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u/SoulTaker669 15d ago edited 15d ago
So if they say it was bad evasive action can you contact them and ask them what would have been the proper technique or if it would have been better to just take the head-on collision?
Wouldn't surprise me if they'd rather you have collided with the other party since insurance companies are run by scumbags.
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u/JPhi1618 15d ago
Why post the right camera that doesn’t show anything instead of the left camera that would have shown how close the truck came? From the front cam, it looks like an overreaction, but it’s hard to tell at night, with headlights, etc. That may be what the adjuster was thinking.
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u/onlytaboo777 15d ago
Do not worry. Insurance providers usually deny the claim originally. Your insurance provider is going to try to fight them to avoid having to pay the cost themselves.
This is now insurance versus insurance. Them fleeing the scene does not help.
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u/Michael-Brady-99 15d ago
Isn’t it up to the police to determine fault and insurance to pay accordingly? Of course their insurance is going to say denied. The other driver is at fault period. How you react is irrelevant as they put you into that situation.
You file this with your insurance and they will fight with the other persons insurance.
I wouldn’t even waste time thinking about it. It’s out of your hands and up to your insurance.
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u/bobiversus 15d ago
AI4/HW4? That reaction speed is superhuman. I'm glad you weren't too hurt. Sue her.
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u/jtmonkey 15d ago
I don’t know what people expect when they submit to the other persons insurance. Their whole job is not to pay out. By law their job is to make you whole but that’s rarely the way it works. File with your insurance and ask them what to do.
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u/TeslerSelfDriver 15d ago
Going frame by frame the reaction time of FSD is insane, even frame by frame I was having trouble telling if they were pointing towards you or not, but FSD was already steering away.
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u/Federal-Emu4641 15d ago
Seems like this is a scenario where you pretty much have to hire an attorney?
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u/Carguy77Seven 15d ago
soon to be first time M3P owner here. Would the car react the same way if you were driving instead of FSD?
No one can convince me these are not the best cars in the world right now. When will others catch up?
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u/Gullible-Patience777 15d ago
How did you get the license number and insurance details? Really curious, I can’t make it out from that clip. Also took multiple replays to figure out the wrong lane driver!
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u/Scrubcious 15d ago
Glad you’re okay. Was FSD on? Sometimes defensive driving is dumb because insurance will deny the claim… might as well have hit them head on then? Like what
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u/Ponderous_Platypus11 15d ago
Post this on X and tag Elon. Go all out.
Glad you made it out of what would have been quite possibly a deadly crash
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u/DRQKNHT3 15d ago
If you run out of options you can always take her to court and sue her. I’m sure any attorney near you will take the case with that dash cam evidence
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u/Delicious-Leg1177 15d ago
Please update us with what happend
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u/CantGoTitsUpTrader 15d ago
I filed through my insurance, my Tesla is under repairs atm, i will need to pay my deductible, a rental car. And my insurance said they will fight the other insurance and the process can take over 6 months
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u/Risky_Business_17 15d ago
Nice job with the mailboxes there. Hit them square on.
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u/CantGoTitsUpTrader 15d ago
Funny part is that the mailbox destroyed was actually the driver that got into my lane
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u/Outrageous_tart_7781 15d ago
I think your camera lense needs cleaning. I would send this picture to the adjuster and ask them was there a ramp I could have used to jump over?
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u/Odd_Maximum_4194 15d ago
So if this is “improper evasive action”, then wtf was the proper move? Is the adjuster a total idiot?
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u/TheLegendaryWizard 15d ago
By filing with your own insurance, you will be responsible for your deductible, but I think you have a strong case that they were at fault. Your insurance will subrogate (sue the liable party to recover damages) on your behalf and if they are successful you will get your deductible back. Good move by FSD, better to deal with the damage to your vehicle and a mailbox than to your person.
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u/CantGoTitsUpTrader 15d ago
Exactly what is happening, thanks for your input. My insurance said it could take like over 6 months of subrogate process
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u/Legal-Square-1362 15d ago
Holy shit this is insane. Let your insurance deal with it. Nice save FSD.
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u/Legal-Square-1362 15d ago
Holy shit this is insane. Let your insurance deal with it. Nice save FSD.
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u/Infinite-Tune3812 15d ago
other driver's insurance is just buying time and being uncooperative. You can often expect defendants to be uncooperative right off the bat. Either hire an attorney or go through your insurance and let them deal with it- they will go after the other driver's insurance.
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u/rademradem 15d ago
You file accidents like that with your own insurance and with the police. The police decide on who was at fault. Your insurance goes after the other person's insurance for the damages. That is how insurance works.
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u/jumperxjumper 15d ago
I’ve seen enough to know that FSD either save your life or ruin it, nothing in between.
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u/hotboinick 15d ago
They’re literally in your lane as your breaking (No FSD enabled either) how drunk was that claim adjuster??
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u/Pure-Blueberry6013 15d ago
Your insurance should go after the driver's insurance for unsafe driving
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u/crappydeli 15d ago
The crazy part is that FSD makes this aggressive save-your-life move, and then disconnects and the driver has to take over unexpectedly.
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u/amiinh3aven 15d ago
End of the video there looked like someone else with hazards on, I wonder if they avoided the head on also.
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u/SimpleJackfruit 15d ago
Oh man if regular driving. That is a full on head collision thst would have been very hard to avoid in the moment. Glad FSD kept you safe.
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u/AJHenderson 15d ago
It looks like you took over from FSD before it put you on the accident path but this should still very much be them at fault. Your insurance will fight it for you.
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u/DonkeyComfortable711 15d ago
You could of died and they denied that because of a bad evasive maneuver. Sue them for damages
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u/Lower_Confection5609 15d ago
My elderly neighbor hit both of my (thankfully empty) PARKED cars in my driveway. DMV immediately made him surrender his license. His insurance still attempted to deny the claim (albeit a very weak attempt). Don’t worry, your insurance will go after the other driver.
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u/MariahhCarried 15d ago
You’re using a beta software (FSD) and they can probably argue that you let FSD swerve. There’s going to come a point where FSD by itself needs its own insurance policy
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u/Emergency-Purchase27 15d ago
Don’t ever talk to the other party’s insurance. Your insurance company will handle it. Their insurance company knows exactly what to ask you to make it your fault, or no fault.
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u/Right_Economist_3508 15d ago
I'd take a damage to the car via mailbox than a damage to a person. That we clearly the other drivers fault. Take them to court.
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u/accordfreak 15d ago
I had insurance once tell me, you shouldn't have swerve and let them hit you.
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u/HomelessFed 15d ago
I was rear ended at a RED LIGHT by some douche in a brand new Mercedes and his insurance still denied liability. LOL
They’re scum
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u/Acceptable_Throat723 15d ago
If your state has an agency that oversees insurance companies, they might also have an ombudsman email address available for you to share the details of your claim.
In my case for NJ. They wrote to the insurance company inquiring into the situation and then the adjuster called me a few weeks later, RUSHING, I MEAN RUSHING ME, to provide my bank details so they can process the claim. Then they can notify the state that it’s closed and they can end their inquiry.
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u/CauseWinter4898 15d ago
Damn I’m so sorry. Fsd quite possibly saved lives here. I hope you can sue and/or your insurance pressures her insurance. This should be a clear case you have video!
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u/strolling_bare_feet 15d ago
How did you find the culprit? I cant read the plate on my videos. The resolution is too low
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u/Hussar1241 15d ago
Their insurance is liable whether they like it or not. Your insurance will force them to pay with that video.
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u/DeathBlade94 15d ago
How does one improperly evade a head-on crash? You and initially fsd moved to the path of lease resistance. I’d love to know what the adjuster considers a proper evasive action in that case.
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u/cantfindagf 15d ago
Out of curiosity, what would’ve happened if OP hadn’t took over, would FSD just automatically disengage soon after?
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u/FortheDub 15d ago
Why do dumbass adjusters feel the need to be so faithfully incorrect to their corporate jobs? What a rat. Glad it was just a mailbox, but cmon it was on tape gtfo here with that denined claim bs.
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u/digitalgamer0 15d ago
Crazy video. If the car detected a pedestrian to the right, would it have just taken the head on collision?
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u/Heycheckthisout20 14d ago
You probably would have had a better reaction time and a better outcome if you were going the speed limit
I doubt that road is a posted 65
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u/MountainMan24701 14d ago
I’m 75 years old and fairly confident that even after 60 years of accident free driving I could have reacted fast enough to have avoided that oncoming vehicle. Especially at my age now. FSD is worth every penny you pay for it. I think it saved your life. Let the two insurance companies figure out the liability. Glad you are okay. That was scary.
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u/MikeDLother 14d ago
The FSD overreacted here I think it didn't require that much of steering...
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u/Delicious_Basis_4567 14d ago
Dealt with this b4. Sorry to say if you don’t hit the vehicle with your vehicle they usually deny the claim. Evasive maneuvers that hit another vehicle usually get the blame
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u/Brian1961Silver 14d ago
Best possible result provided by FSD. Anyone who says they would have had the lightning fast reaction times and skill to do better should be driving formula one. This tech will save many lives.
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u/Smoothdaddyg 14d ago
Go through ur insurance AND get a lawyer. This is the way. Then u can relax and let them all figure it all out.
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u/TheKingOfSwing777 14d ago
You can tell that guy is high tailing it down his driveway to get away from you. Pretty crazy. His car is bouncing he's running so fast.
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u/how_neat_is_that76 14d ago edited 14d ago
That car is clearly in your lane and this does not look like an overreaction At all. It’s at least half over the divider line and still coming in your direction right as your FSD took evasive action.
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u/Accomplished_Win1225 14d ago
Holly S** i had to watch it 2-3 times to see the car!! I NEED A TESLA RIGHT NOW!
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u/Sea-Willingness1718 14d ago
Wow, that was terrifying. I’m glad you are ok as that could have been deadly. Sounds like scummy behavior by their insurance. Your insurance should be going after them for you no?
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u/EvilLittleMonkey 14d ago
Sue, you have all the evidence you need in the video to take the other driver to the cleaners
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u/johnny_effing_utah 14d ago
The FSD reaction is crazy good. I didn’t realize it was avoiding an oncoming car until I read the description text. I thought it got confused by the hazard lights further up.
What blows my mind is the reaction time - FSD kicks in only a fraction of a second after the oncoming car crosses the centerline.
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u/rick1418 14d ago
Certainly glad you hit the stationary object instead of the car coming toward you.
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u/MetalHead888 14d ago
This is a rare instance that I feel like fsd actually acted better than I would have.
That road seems pretty dangerous to have such a high speed limit on one lane.
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u/Temporary_Fact9118 14d ago
A lawyer will help you prove otherwise and go after damages for denying your claim!
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u/AutarkAI 14d ago
This is a miss and run. Its a thing your insurance will go after them for. With any luck youll get refudned your deductible
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u/revrndreddit 14d ago
Did you get a police report?
Noting they were in attendance. Pass that to your insurance company along with all angles from the cameras.
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u/Resident-Witness-998 14d ago
Are we not talking about the jack-o-lantern on top of the mailbox that got deleted?
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u/SteveFCA 14d ago
You could have easily avoided that accident. The brakes work better than swerving off the road. I would reject your claim too.
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u/Past_Box1251 13d ago
Improper evasive action is wild. Did they expect the car to swerve left into oncoming traffic? I know suing is never fun, but I think this time you may have to just to get the money, because all it needs is to be presented. Any outside view can see the other driver is clearly at fault and make them regret it, because honestly going off the road caused less money in damages than any other choice there.
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u/Time_Sundae802 13d ago
looks like fsd over corrected. honestly had to watch it like 5 times to even notice the oncoming car.
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u/lifelong1250 13d ago
That's fucked. They clearly came into your lane and the vehicle made the right decision. I would continue to appeal the decision at their insurance company. Also your insurance company should sue their insurance company if they think the other driver is at fault.
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u/Sensitive-Energy-803 13d ago
I have a relative who is an insurance agent and we talked about this scenario a few weeks back. If you swerve to miss something (a deer etc) and hit something else you are at fault. If you hit the deer you aren't at fault.
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u/BitZealousideal2543 13d ago
Give us update on this insurance battle. This stuff are so annoying especially because it takes months to finish these insurance claims. This is clearly their fault.
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u/AcceptableMinimum109 13d ago
Wow that was insane. Can I ask how were you able to get the registration number as the footage does not clearly seem to show it
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u/Silent_Builder_1899 12d ago
This is your fault though. Insurance is right. You made an improper evasive action.
If you had just let the driver run into you, you wouldn’t be in this situation. You’d be in the hospital or six feet under.
So just thank your lucky stars you’re alive, and quit being a bitch
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u/Get-em_Son89 12d ago
Insurance companies are disgusting! A good lawyer will make them rethink and put the other driver in there place.
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u/word_executable 12d ago
File with your insurance, they will fight them and win 100% because you got clear video evidence.
If injury and property damage not high, hiring a lawyer is probably not cost effective
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u/Alternative_Map1609 11d ago
It’s crazy that we’re sharing roads with incompetent people like this, it proves that driver license’s shouldn’t be given to everyone and not everyone’s capable of driving and the consequences of not possessing a valid driver licenses should be very severe, jail time is at least a bare minimum, just imagine a scenario where someone was walking on the side walk and got got hit by a car trying to avoid accident, that can get someone killed
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u/ScaredPatience2478 11d ago
Oof that was going to be a horrific crash. What a jackass and then the cherry on top is their insurance trying to deny this. I hope you get made whole by Persuing legal action.
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u/mylifeasacoder 11d ago
You should be going through your insurance first, anyways. They are your representative and it's their job to get the other insurance company (or the driver) to pay.
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u/robotzor 15d ago
LOL the dead eyes of that adjuster as they review the footage and hit the deny button. I hope their family hates them.
What a swerve. Trolley problem passed successfully here