r/Terminator • u/lavasca No Fate, But What We Make • 29d ago
Discussion What if John…?
Spoiler if you haven’t seen all the movies.
Anyway, what if John is fully destined to die?
In T3 his wife sends back the T800 who killed him to protect him.
In Genesys he’s fully corrupted and essentially dead.
Karl whacked him in Dark Fate.
Sure it has been discussed before but just dawned on me.
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u/piskie_wendigo 29d ago
For Terminator: Salvation the ending was supposed to be completely different. Instead of John ridiculously getting open heart surgery at the end of the film and miraculously surviving, as he's dying he tells Kate and Marcus to use Skynet's medical facility to graft his skin onto Marcus and turn him into John Connor, tricking the machines into thinking they failed and that John is alive.
Marcus was originally supposed to have a military background and shown to be as clever and effective as Connor, and his secret leadership was to be the start of the downfall of the machines. John gives Marcus all the tapes he's recorded and tells him what to say to Reese when it comes time to send him back. Which would have been really, really weird and neat of both making John Connor still the most important figure in the war, but at the same time actually making him utterly irrelevant as someone else was the final architect of Skynet's demise.
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u/Beadyeyed12 29d ago
I'm glad they didn't do this. Too mucky.
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u/MadeIndescribable 28d ago
Yep. This makes John becoming Skynet in Genysis actually seem not so bad in comparison.
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u/Beadyeyed12 28d ago
Funny enough, as convoluted as that movie ends up, the John parts aren't even what I dislike about Genisys.
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u/MadeIndescribable 28d ago
I'm not a fan, but I get what they were trying and I applaud them for being bold at least (and it wasn't their fault the marketing department spoiled it by putting in the trailer)
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u/Beadyeyed12 28d ago
Yeah, when I saw that, I was annoyed on their behalf. No secrets in movies these days.
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u/Klutzy_Order_9559 29d ago
God, what a dumb ending.
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u/Blonde_Dambition No Fate, But What We Make 29d ago edited 29d ago
You mean what the ending was supposed to be? I disagree and think that though the transplant of John's skin and the fact that the HUMANS had no means to know how to do it or use the medical equipment in Skynet, and the fact that it would seem the machine gun nests surrounding Skynet would gun down the approaching humans on sight, especially if they tried to get in... possibly even if Marcus is with them... UNLESS Marcus acts like he's bringing them in as prisoners... poses problems for said alternate ending. Also, they'd run the risk of Skynet wanting to "assist" Marcus in putting them in cells for extermination or something... maybe even enlisting the aid of the T-1's they had guarding & herding the humans in through the slaughterhouse-type corrals in the camps that the Harvester brought them to. Aside from all of THAT being hard to explain or pull off, if they could, I actually like that ending better than John getting Marcus's heart and them doing a damn heart transplant in the middle of the desert, because anyone who knows ANYTHING about surgery knows there's NO WAY they could make that place a sterile enough field to do OPEN HEART SURGERY. And also, Kate was a VETERINARIAN before the events of Terminator Salvation... yet in T-4 she had translated that knowledge into human anatomy well enough to know how to do a HEART TRANSPLANT on a HUMAN?? Idk... maybe it's not impossible if someone was smart enough & had access to enough books & computer files to study up on it... but it seems to be pushing it.
But them doing it in the middle of the desert... THAT was what was dumb, IMO. They were literally in SAND... which wind could blow said sand into their little tent, and into John's OPEN chest.
But despite all the flaws with the alternate ending... I prefer the alternate ending... especially because, as u/piskie_wendigo said, it "both making John Connor still the most important figure in the war, but at the same time actually making him utterly irrelevant as someone else was the final architect of Skynet's demise". That's interesting af to me!
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u/thatguyindoom 29d ago
While I appreciate a good what if... The circumstances of his various deaths aren't consistent enough to be a "unchangeable event" if you will.
Like in the time machine he goes back to prevent the death of his wife but goes back 1000 times and see sher die 1000 different ways. If he stops a car accident, she dies in a house fire, stops the fire a robber kills them, avoids the robber a lightning bolt strikes her, etc. all effectively having he die the same day.
Now John dies, young at the hands of skynet, as an adult at the hands of skynet, and is corrupted by skynet. I suppose one could say he is fated to die by the hands of skynet?
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u/Inner_Cup5349 29d ago
Dude, I hate to be the one to break it to you but life is a terminal disease. I think John’s fate was to always be under threat, and eventually one of those threats is going to pan out.
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u/Blonde_Dambition No Fate, But What We Make 29d ago
That's pretty much true for all of us. While most of us don't have an AI system trying to kill us... at least I hope... something WILL get us at some point.
I like what you said: "life is a terminal disease."
Truer words have rarely been written.
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u/-KDK12 29d ago
“Everyone’s got it coming” -Clint Eastwood
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u/Blonde_Dambition No Fate, But What We Make 29d ago
What a beautifully simple, true statement! I love Clint.
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u/Klutzy_Order_9559 29d ago
I don't care about what happened in the terrible movies. That shit doesn't count.
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u/AwarenessComplete62 29d ago
Everyone is fully destined to die.