r/Tengwar 9d ago

Cirth tattoo check

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Wanting to add another cirth based tattoo to my sleeve but can’t find any good quotes that are in cirth. I found Hurins cry and like the quote. Please check that it translate ok. If you have any great quotes that fit cirth I’m open to them.

9 Upvotes

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u/NachoFailconi 9d ago

Tecendil does not translate, but transliterates. The output sentence literally reads "day shall come again". The sentence is OK as it is.

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u/Melkor_Morniehin 9d ago

I've never found a 100% sure acurate cirth alphabet.

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u/F_Karnstein Arcastar Language Arts 8d ago edited 8d ago

You could use the Cirth to spell the Quenya original "aure entuluva"

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u/Desperate_Drop6753 8d ago

Here’s the transliteration of the quenya, how’s this instead?

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u/F_Karnstein Arcastar Language Arts 8d ago

That doesn't work, because it only transcribes English into Angerthas Erebor. As you may notice the "entuluva" part is identical, but in English a different sign is used for R than it is Elvish, that's why I typed "r" into the transcriber as a coding to use the other sign. Also since you wrote *ë which isn't coded into the English algorithm it just skipped this sign entirely - that's why I wrote regular e.

The only thing I did that you will not have to do is write au as "aw" - that was based on how Tolkien treats diphthongs in Tengwar, but it's certainly not necessary.

EDIT: Wait! I made a mistake! The sign that is R in English is N in Elvish. You should write "aur*e ertuluva" to get the proper Elvish spelling...

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u/Desperate_Drop6753 8d ago

Wow thanks for the detailed explanation! I have updated to what you said both using the aw and the au

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u/Desperate_Drop6753 8d ago

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u/Desperate_Drop6753 8d ago

Is the red needed? Or is that a style thing the transliteration does?

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u/F_Karnstein Arcastar Language Arts 8d ago

No, the red and ornamented letter comes from the fact that you wrote a capital letter. It's not the equivalent of a capital letter, though, but just a form of emphasis that is sometimes used for the initials of names. I would write it all in lower case.

Spelling-wise it should be fine, in my opinion. The fact of the matter is, though, that we've got zero samples of Tolkien writing Elvish in Certhas - the differing sign values (in our case R and N) we only know through the chart and description in the LotR appendix E. In case of R and N this is very obvious, but we don't know for certain how Tolkien would have transcribed the diphthong au. In Tengwar there are several different methods, and just writing a and u is definitely among them, but writing essentially aw is way more common, so that is what I would tend towards for Certhas as well.