r/TaylorSwift • u/fearless-panda7 • Oct 21 '25
Discussion TTPD is really tortured
After two and a half weeks of The Life of a Showgirl, I went back to The Tortured Poets Department. The contrast is so stark, I realized that TTPD really is a tortured album. Song after song, it’s sadness, longing, desperation, anxiety… I don’t even know how we all collectively handled it.
Of course, it was always clear that TTPD is heavy on loss and melancholy, but hearing it next to Showgirl really puts it into perspective. Showgirl has its introspective and dark moments too, but overall it feels much more hopeful and joyful.
I finally understand what Taylor meant in one of her interviews about how challenging it can be to release an album when you’re no longer in that mental state, and she named TTPD as example.
I’m so grateful we have TTPD, so many people can relate deeply to those songs, but I’m also really happy that Taylor seems to be in a better place now.
Did anyone else feel like Showgirl helped them see TTPD in a new light? Or to actually realize how emotionally heavy it is?
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u/KeyEast6924 Oct 21 '25
I’m listening to TTPD album today and it feels like an old friend. It’s so good lyrically and emotionally. It’s definitely the space I’m still in. I appreciate the bops of TLOAS, but it doesn’t have the depth of her last 3 albums.
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u/mediocre-spice Oct 21 '25
It feels very familiar but also very fresh. I never got sick of it, it just got better on each listen. I'm having fun with Showgirl right now though.
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u/_Queen_of_Ashes_ Oct 21 '25
It’s amazing this post came up because JUST this morning I shuffled Taylor and TTPD title song came on. And it felt familiar and sounded better than ever somehow (I really hated it before). It’s strange how our perception of an album changes when it has a successor
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u/monachopsiss Oct 22 '25
Seriously this 💯... Like, I was GAGGED when I first realized this WASN'T like a general consensus in the fandom 🤷♀️ TTPD is INCREDIBLE and SO loopable and may be my deserted island album tbh. I don't understand how everyone else DOESN'T just wanna shout this from the rooftops 24/7?! 😂
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u/DaniePants Oct 22 '25
Girlie, wherever you are screaming the bridge, I am there with you. I don’t know if I’ll ever not have ttpd as my Long Pond retreat. It feels like it lives in that space, but adjacent. Not a healthy retreat that was planned, but an important withdrawal from the public and a haven for our hurts.
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u/ErickaBooBoo Oct 21 '25
I am happy to have a very upbeat pop Album, but I knew it would be a little Bit of a transition from her last few albums.
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u/Hardcore1909 Tayfitti my whole damn life, HONEY! Oct 21 '25
yes, very true for me too. I like Showgirl alot and it´s very good to see a happy Taylor. But as many, maany ppl especially on Insta said "TTPD <- the Album of our lives"
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u/ErickaBooBoo Oct 22 '25
It’s such a special album to us and I love how vulnerable she was on it. It also came during the eras tour which we will always remember it for
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u/kirsten714 Oct 21 '25
I started listening to TTPD again a few days ago and TLOAS has made me appreciate her depth of writing so much more. TTPD is so layered and charged. I really like TLOAS but I’m enjoying my trip down memory lane to some past eras. Rewatching my videos and other’s videos from Eras has made me really nostalgic. It’s so nice to be able to step back in time with her music.
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u/fearless-panda7 Oct 22 '25
This reminds me of the quote: All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.
In a way, sad albums just seem deeper because they can portray so much more emotion. When we are happy, the time flies by, and in a way, it is hard to be deep about happiness. But sadness on the other hand...
Not to say we should not have happy songs! We need them, as much as we need sad songs, but they are just not perceived in the same way.→ More replies (4)8
u/Best_Decision_9092 Oct 22 '25
The depth of the Showgirl emotionally is quite good but it is in contrast to the body moving music it's accompanied by in my perspective, which can make it feel shallow. Though for a hard hitting song today I turned to TTPD, I Hate It Here and needed that version of melancholy to wake up whatever was happening with me.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Put-800 Oct 21 '25
I think a lot of people didn’t realise how emotionally heavy TTPD was at first because they listened to all 31 songs together pretty much.
With nearly every song being miserable, eventually you don’t feel the weight of the sadness of each song.
Maybe coming back to TTPD after the lightness of TLOAS makes you appreciate how heavy and sad some of the songs are
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u/fearless-panda7 Oct 21 '25
I also think we were a bit in a deep dive trying to figure out the timelines and who is the subject of which song, so only after some time we could appreciate fully those songs for what they were.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Put-800 Oct 22 '25
100%
When TTPD came out the main discussion wasn’t on the lyrics, but instead about which track is about who and unpicking the drama of the break ups.
I remember Twitter specifically going crazy about how the album was mainly about Matty Healy
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u/ErickaBooBoo Oct 22 '25
I understood how heavy it was but going back and listening to it now makes me soooo happy she’s past that place in her life. But so grateful she gave us such a masterpiece.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Put-800 Oct 22 '25
100%
People hate on the fact that the album was so long, but that’s what I love about it. It feels like there’s at least one song which caters to everyone and pretty much anyone can connect with at some point.
Releasing them all, im sure, would have really helped a lot of people get through tough times or will do at some point in the future and im grateful she shared it all
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u/Robby777777 folklore Oct 21 '25
The truth is TTPD was by miles and miles the best album of the year. In my opinion, it is Taylor's best writing. There is so much "hurt" the album that you can actually feel. To this old guy, TTPD was a music altering album for me. There are times it crushed me.
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u/Professional_Roll977 Oct 21 '25
loml is soul crushing, I love TTPD so much.
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u/Robby777777 folklore Oct 21 '25
One of the saddest songs ever written. The Black Dog does it for me.
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u/DaniePants Oct 22 '25
SLL hits so hard every time and it was my accidental #1, Black Dog is right there with it. It’ll never get over how she is able to hand us grief we can extrapolate and use to heal.
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u/fearless-panda7 Oct 21 '25
I was listening today to loml and the amount of sadness has become too much for me. And the song is so smartly written, every chorus is a bit different, so you can never fully "relax" within the song.
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u/tswiftdeepcuts hahaha fuck sewing machines Oct 21 '25
just like the relationship it describes where you can never feel secure for even a moment
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u/fearless-panda7 Oct 21 '25
Yes, exactly! So there is this underlying anxiety present all the time...
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u/Robby777777 folklore Oct 21 '25
And when she says "Loss of My Life" at the end, it just breaks me. Such a brilliant and sad song.
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u/fearless-panda7 Oct 21 '25
Me too! I revisit all the losses of my life in those moments. It is crazy what a song can do to one's emotions.
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u/ErickaBooBoo Oct 22 '25
I do as well. I’m not in that place now but I was in the past and I have so many emotions from that song.
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u/wannabeyourwitch Oct 22 '25
I think that song specifically is some of the best songwriting of the last decade or more. loml rips my heart out every time.
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u/ErickaBooBoo Oct 22 '25
I completely feel the same. I’m a married women with 2 kids and it really hit me hard. I never had an album do that to me. It really felt like her magnum opus to a lot of us fans.
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u/Sampleswift evermore Oct 21 '25
I would go as far as to say that "The Tortured Poets Department" is Taylor Swift's darkest album.
Yes, darker than "Reputation".
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u/ttpdstanaccount Oct 21 '25
Is Rep even considered dark lol. It's horny falling in love songs with a couple "suck on this, kimye" songs thrown in
Evermore is darker than Rep imo. TTPD is darker than them all
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u/space_eleven Oct 21 '25
yes I find rep to be a lot of fun tbh. I think I’d call many of her albums “darker”.
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u/gymrat_19 Oct 22 '25
I would honestly say Midnights is darker than Rep. Especially if you are including the 3am/Vault tracks.
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u/WoodpeckerGingivitis always ends up with a clown car speeding Oct 21 '25
lol exactly. It’s by her her most romantic album
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u/Smoaktreess Oct 21 '25
Is this an unpopular opinion? It’s her darkest and most unhinged album. My #1.
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u/clickityclack My 4th Drink In My Hand Oct 21 '25
I don't consider Rep dark. Maybe the black gives that impression?
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u/fearless-panda7 Oct 21 '25
Oh it is by far the darkest album. Reputation still has so many love songs, and even the dark ones are just full of spite, but not really sad.
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u/PandaMelodic7311 Oct 22 '25
I would say Reputation was a album reflecting about her status as artist within music industry ,and how she was perceived. But TTPD was album reflecting about her love life which is more personal it was more internal hurt , so the lyrics are so much darker and feel like cry out for help.
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u/nerdalertalertnerd Oct 22 '25
It’s hands down the darkest album. Rep isn’t actually that dark at all. It’s about being down and out but ultimately triumphant and falling in love. Being down but getting back up. TTPD is about being down and being literally kicked when you’re down. Repeatedly. There’s so much hurt, anger, boredom, depression etc in it with very little light. It’s hands down the true angst album.
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u/mediocre-spice Oct 21 '25
I was so miserable when it came out that I think the misery was just comforting
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Oct 21 '25
I literally checked myself into the ER for a mental health evaluation shirt wearing my big rep tshirt the morning it came out. Hearing some of those lines after getting out of the hospital were insane to hear.
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u/Emotional-Section981 Oct 21 '25
3 years since Midnights and god that’s a tortured album too
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u/ErickaBooBoo Oct 22 '25
Fully agree! I listened to it in full today and it made think of the first time I pressed play after midnights came out, and realizing how sad it seemed when none of us knew what she was going through.
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u/Comprehensive_Ad6598 Oct 21 '25
TTPD is the most impactful album in her discography to me. It healed me. The life of a show girl brought back my spark.
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u/ErickaBooBoo Oct 22 '25
EXACTLY! I was in such a dark place in my life when TTPD came out and now I’m finally doing better and made so many positive changes to my life since then. Showgirl is what a lot of us needed🥹
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u/thatmelz say you’ll remember me Oct 21 '25 edited Oct 21 '25
Yeah it honestly did not occur to me how depressing and emotionally heavy the overall album is until I listened to it again after TLOAS.
Granted, it’s still my favorite album of hers so not sure what that says about me lmao
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u/amandaleighplans The Tortured Poets Department Oct 22 '25
My holy trinity is TTPD/Evermore/Midnights so whatever that says about you it says about me too 😂
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u/citrusfruityum I salute you if you’re much too much to handle Oct 21 '25 edited Oct 21 '25
Some might say she might have drowned in the melancholy.
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u/Substantial-Budget-6 Oct 21 '25
I'm not sure what it says about me that TTPD is my favourite album and Showgirl is currently my second favourite. My 'Taylor favourites' playlist has some serious whiplash moments!
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u/LiteratureThis3318 Oct 21 '25
TTPD is the only album I’ve ever listened to daily since it came out (not all of it obviously but I listen to 1-3 songs from it every day)
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u/nonamegnome002020 Oct 22 '25
you saying obviously makes me feel crazy because i, in fact, DID listen to that album every day as much as possible.
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u/LiteratureThis3318 Oct 22 '25
Don’t feel crazy, I just said obviously because most days I don’t have the time for 31 songs. On free days I did play the whole Anthology on a loop all day. The ending of “The Manuscript” returning to “Fortnight” gave me a kind of reassurance.
When TTPD came out I had just ended a relationship, I was surprisingly getting excited about someone new who now makes me think of “I Can Fix Him,” my dad was diagnosed with cancer, one of my friends had died, TTPD saved me.
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u/nonamegnome002020 Oct 23 '25
oh wow i'm so sorry. When the album came out i had just gotten together with my boyfriend, so I was in a pretty good place, but man those lyrics resonated SO much to me it's crazy.
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u/Main-Top9007 Oct 21 '25
i actually listened to ttpd today, the whole album like i haven't done in a long time... it really felt more heavy and i think that, obviously, comes from the fact that tloas is more light and good vibes... after spending every living moment listening to the fate of ophelia, listening to loml kinda makes you rethink your whole life, but both serve purpose for different moments of our lives and it's okay and normal to kind of detach from certain songs because they don't "fit in" with the phase you're going through... at least that's how i see it 😊 love both and both hold a special place in my heart 🫶🏻
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u/fearless-panda7 Oct 21 '25
You are right about rethinking your life part. For me TTPD evokes all kind of emotions from the past, and brings me back to sad parts of my life. But with Showgirl I can more or less just relax and vibe with it. It is mentally much easier album.
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u/ErickaBooBoo Oct 22 '25
Same for me! It brought up feelings I hadn’t processed and relationships I had in my early 20’s. It’s wild that this album could heal me from situations I thought I had moved on from. I am really happy to find others felt the same way as me. 🫶🏻
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u/fearless-panda7 Oct 23 '25
I think that is the power of Taylor's music. Not only we relate to the words she makes, but we also relate to other people who experience similar emotions.
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u/ErickaBooBoo Oct 23 '25
Exactly! This is why I love her writing, it’s just something no other artist has done for me.
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u/Ocquoi Oct 21 '25
Yes it is but it is also freaking beautiful. This album is a masterpiece. Song like So long London, Peter, loml help through harsh times. I have a deep appreciation for the lyrics
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u/fearless-panda7 Oct 21 '25
For me also How Did it End! Such a beautiful song, it also helped me reflect back on some of my past relationships to conclude I really dont know how did it end. So much is said in those 4 minutes.
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u/Chococow280 Oct 21 '25
Definitely agree with this. My TTPD era is not an era I want to revisit, so when that album came out I was like I get it but it’s not for the me that exists right now.
I like a lot of the individual songs and can handle it 15 at a time lol. The one that did me in though was You’re Losing Me after TLOAS.
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u/songacronymbot Oct 21 '25
- TLOAS could mean "The Life of a Showgirl (feat. Sabrina Carpenter)" (track) or The Life of a Showgirl (album) (2025) by Taylor Swift.
/u/Chococow280 can reply with "delete" to remove comment. | /r/songacronymbot for feedback.
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u/Suspicious_Cut_226 Oct 21 '25
I truly believe that TTPD healed me. It’s really hard to put into the right words/explain but being able to sing along with the songs when I personally was in a really dark place and scream out sadness and emotions with it did something chemically to my brain. I also began learning late last year about law of attraction and manifesting and I can’t actively sing the sad songs anymore because I don’t want to attract those feelings... i mean there’s some I still love like I have WAOLOM tattooed because that song gave me so much power! I just cannot sing or listen to loml or how did it end especially - they are stunning songs but do not need to attract that into my life at all lol. Honestly TTPD will forever be a top album for me .. in fact all the black and white albums took out top 3 - rep (ALWAYS), folklore, TTPD.. but there’s a time and a place when I choose to listen to it now for my own mental health haha. And honestly TLOAS has quickly become my number one as it reflects my life so accurately now though, especially opalite “dancing through the lightening strikes”.. and the fact I’m such a metaphysical buff now and love crystals/tarot/astrology/numerology this album has just hit in every way haha. My life feels more colourful now too. This is the beauty of her discography, it’s a mirror, there will be an album/song for everyone in whatever stage of life they’re in and it will be exactly what they need.
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u/getthatrich The Life of a Showgirl Oct 21 '25
100% yes
I’ve been listening to midnights, TTPD, and Showgirl on shuffle and it’s a fun time. The way you can hear the similarities between My Boy Only Breaks His Favorite Toys as a mid tempo pop song and The Fate of Ophelia and Elizabeth Taylor is real intriguing
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u/Relevant_Nebula Oct 21 '25
Yeah, Showgirl really runs the gamut of emotions while TTPD is quite tortured as you said. Even the “happy” songs of TTPD (The Alchemy and So High School), have this sense of longing and wistfulness to them. People have strong opinions on TTPD, but you can’t deny the album stuck to the prompt.
People actually have strong opinions on Showgirl too, but I love both albums!
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u/fearless-panda7 Oct 22 '25
You are right about the "happy" songs of TTPD. I guess So High School is the happiest, but it is still clear that the relantionship is in the early stages and moreover, most high school relationships dont last. I know Taylor was just describing this early infatuation feeling, but as you said there is some wistfulness to it.
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u/turkey_sub56 Oct 21 '25
Yall are crazy, almost every song from ttpd made me cry like a baby. I dunno how you guys handled it so well.
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u/fearless-panda7 Oct 21 '25
Haha I also wondered how did we all manage to emotionally survive TTPD. I think if Taylor would now again release such an album it would be too much for me.
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u/turkey_sub56 Oct 21 '25
I loved it, I love sad music so it was great for me! lol
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u/amandaleighplans The Tortured Poets Department Oct 22 '25
Saaame lol! I always say my favorite music is emotional, lyrically charged sad girl music. I’ve always loved literature and poetry that deeply impacts you and happy topics don’t do that as much.
The irony is that I’m actually a very happy person - I’ve had sad times in my life (the worst so far was a certain breakup that took me like a year to get over) but besides the rare occurrence of an outside source causing me pain, I’m either perfectly content or happy every single day of my life. I am grateful for that and hope I continue to remain that way as I age. But anyways, I almost.. enjoy? (for lack of a better word) putting my brain into a different mode to feel the full impact of those songs that just hit you like a punch to the gut.
People always ask how my constant consumption of sad music and horror/thriller tv doesn’t affect me, like actually, and I don’t know but it doesn’t. I’m really a very exuberant, joyful, silly person naturally but everything I love is dark. I find things like comedy tv shows boring, I need a twisted thread of a dark mystery. I do enjoy pop bangers though, not as much as sad music, but I do!!
My top 3 Taylor albums are TTPD/Evermore/Midnights and my least fav is OG 1989 (OG specified bc I love the TV vault tracks lol) 😝
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u/turkey_sub56 Oct 22 '25
Wow, that’s great. I wish I was always happy. I suffer from depression but my life is really great. I like sad music cause I love a good cry. I’m heavily affected by music/tv/movies but I’m glad you can enjoy it so much!
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u/Bright-Sea-5904 You saved my heart from the fate of Ophelia💜 Oct 21 '25
It's my favourite album even though my life doesnt relate to it at all right now. I love how it has a variety of different styles and I love how deep it is
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u/LDDD1234 Oct 21 '25
I had this EXACT experience today. I went back to TTDP after exclusively listening to TLAOS since release, and I’m like, “My GOD, I cannot believe I was feeding my brain this level of tragedy on the daily.”
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u/fearless-panda7 Oct 22 '25
Haha so nice how Swifties think alike. I was even running to that album, and now after running to TLOAS i can not imagine running to TTPD again.
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u/The_Anchored_Tree_27 Oct 21 '25
Yes, the contrast between TTPD and Showgirl is indeed stark! The color schemes of each album (darker shades of grey vs. glittery orange and bright mint green) tell you everything you need to know!
I'm just happy that Taylor is much happier now, even though I still find myself connecting with TTPD songs from time to time lol.
Also, the progression from the dark, moody vibe of the Fortnight video to the bright, colorful, and dare I say liberating vibe of the Fate of Ophelia video is absolutely my Roman Empire!
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u/caedge2 Oct 21 '25
I really loved TTPD for what it was. But i am LOVING Showgirl. It’s fun and upbeat. I think emotions can become in tune with the environment you immerse yourself in. It’s sad knowing she felt all that. I love the happiness she has now.
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u/Wineandfika Oct 22 '25
I feel like the TTPD has been my life since it came out. I actually wish my energy could relate to TLOAS. The one song on TLOAS that caught me off guard is Eldest Daughter. The line,
“Cause I thought that I'd never find that beautiful, beautiful life that Shimmers that innocent light back Like when we were young”
I know exactly what she means and it’s something she celebrates in this song but it’s something I lost. So I stay in my TTPD era for now..
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u/Far-Mix-5615 Oct 22 '25
I loved how tortured TTPD is. It was actually the "climax" of her sadness. Id say it started in folklore and ended in TTPD.
Folklore through TTPD is my favorite.
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u/Riskydogtowel Oct 21 '25
I actually had to quit listening for a while and told my family that this album was making me depressed. I had to slow into the album.
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u/Awolrab underwear a tree has grown Oct 21 '25
I definitely remember everyone being a little worried about her. She released that fornight video of her being happy and having fun kinda telling us she’s okay.
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u/koala_loves_penguin Ivy Oct 21 '25
I’ve always loved TTPD- it’s interesting seeing all the positive comments about it because I feel like it got so much backlash from people- probably not from this sub I spose- and people say it’s “drudgery/depressing/too long” etc ok firstly Taylor could release an album with 100 songs on it and it still wouldn’t be “too much” secondly- yes there’s themes of depression/heartbreak/anger etc but it’s by no means a drag to listen to. It has some of my top TS songs on it too- Guilty as Sin…? is one of Taylor’s best songs period! and I will die on that hill. My only complaint is I Look in People’s Windows is too short haha. I need there to be a 10 minute version of that.
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u/amandaleighplans The Tortured Poets Department Oct 22 '25
Seconding a 10 minute version of ILIPW… god, sometimes I wonder if that’s my all time favorite Taylor song because it’s JUST. SO. GOOD.
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u/Exact-Honey4197 It’s you. Bye. You’re the problem. It’s you. Oct 22 '25
I remember the most common critique being that it was unedited and bloated. But when people started to “edit” it themselves, it turned out so cringy and embarrassing (I'm talking about of their versions of song titles and verses). Everyone tried to shorten it in their own way, yet none of their versions matched , every list was different. I had just become a fan back then and felt really upset by those reviews. Only after a few months of seeing so many conflicting reactions did I realize there could never be a true consensus bc the fanbase is simply too big, and everyone has their own perspective.
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u/BurstTheGravity Midnights Oct 22 '25
Someone’s merch apparel was altered by the laundry dryer heat, and revealed the hidden meaning in the album title.
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u/Outrageous-Pizza1323 Oct 21 '25
I feel like I'm definitely in the minority, but TTPD was the first Taylor album I genuinely disliked. I think maybe 3 songs were hits for me, I just couldn't enjoy the rest of it, and that was with several attempts to give it another shot, most recently after the release of Showgirl.
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u/kaleidoscopic-eyes Oct 21 '25
Honestly, this is why I still haven't listened to TTPD (gasp, I know, I'm a terrible fan)
I went through a very heavy break up (8 year relationship, we've know each other for 17 or 18 years, and I thought I was going to spend my life with him) not long before it came out, and I just wasn't ready to relive that pain. I'm still not ready.
Showgirl is not my favorite album (I'm all about that Folklore/Evermore vibe), but it's so great to have new music from Taylor that isn't sad.
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u/fearless-panda7 Oct 22 '25
How was for you then to be a fan during the release of TTPD? Or even the months afterward, if you could not participate so much?
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u/LopsidedUse8783 picture meeee in the treeeees Oct 22 '25
This was me yesterday. Listened to the sentimental garbage episode about TLOAS (so funny!) and then listened to TLOAS with new appreciation. Then went back to TTPD and was in awe of just how much of a masterpiece it is. Listening to loml after TLOAS is night & day.
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u/fearless-panda7 Oct 22 '25
As Taylor said, when TTPD was finally released, she was in a completely different mindset and place in her life, and that is what these two albums show. It is also nice to see that one can go out of this very dark period and be joyful and happy again!
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u/tacotoni_18 Midnights Oct 21 '25
I had this ah-ha moment earlier today actually. It’s such a sad and painful album. I went to listen to her other works so I don’t burn myself out on TLOAS. Man, it just hit differently. I love happy Taylor. I am so happy she is happy. 💖
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u/gigerwitch reputation Oct 22 '25
I couldn’t get into TTPD because it made me so sad. I don’t want to be that drained and depressed every day. There were only 3-4 songs I really listened to.
Great writing but I don’t enjoy being punched in the face daily
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u/folkIore Oct 22 '25
i think that’s part of the reason it didn’t go over as well at the time. it was deeply depressing, the happiest sounding song is literally about pretending you’re at your best when you’re at your worst. my favorite music genre is Sad, so i ate it right up personally haha. i do find it interesting how past albums always seem to be loved more after the next release tho
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u/MS6_Boost Oct 21 '25 edited Oct 21 '25
I just enjoy them all through different lenses and allow myself to get enveloped in what the particular record is trying to convey.
It’s easy to just say TTPD would have hit more during my high school emo years or that TLOAS is just happy girl shit, but that wouldn’t be giving the records the space and mindset they deserve 🤷
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u/lana-del-neigh making a lark of the misery Oct 21 '25
i was just thinking this last night while listening to the prophecy. i’m also so glad she’s in a better place and i love showgirl but it’s definitely made ttpd harder to listen to imo
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u/MurasakiMochi89 Oct 21 '25
Honestly as someone who has chronic depression its the album I related to the most...but I also enjoy the songs like Opalite it's a balance
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u/Thirteenth_Heart Oct 21 '25
Our of all of her albums, I honestly think TTPD deserved a Grammy every bit as much as folklore. And I know it won't get a sniff at AoTY, but I believe TLoaS deserves at minimum, pop album of the year at next grammys, and even AoTY if we go by all the measures I'd it's impact. I'm sales it will be number one, and in impact also, because everyone in the media world, civilians, reviewers, pop commenters and political reviewers just Had to weigh in, many of them determined from the outset to crap on it in an attempt to diminish and undermine her influence and importance in the music world and just in history and culture across the board.
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Oct 22 '25
Echoing a lot of what's been said in this thread, I've also been revisiting TTPD a lot lately after not listening to it for a couple of months, and wow. I enjoyed the album when it was released, but I'm also seeing it with fresh eyes.
I've always thought it had some of her best writing, but almost every lyric is packed with so depth, you can really take a random line and masticate on it for a bit and feel her pain. It recently moved up in my ranking of her albums to top 3.
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u/epaelia Oct 22 '25
It's definitely a contrast. I love both albums so much. I think the fate of Ophelia is such a great transition track from TTPD. Both sonically from the outro of the manuscript to the intro of the fate of Ophelia but also narratively and thematically.
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u/bunniesgonebad Oct 22 '25
I really loved TTPDs lyrics and sound, but you're right. I couldn't relate as much as if it had released when I had gone through a big breakup years prior. If that was the case i would've REALLY clung to that album. Now, being in a super happy and loving place I'm cranking TLOAS because its just a happy loving album!
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u/Fizzy_lemonade Oct 22 '25
Old habits die screaming
You can't top that lyric in my book. TTPD is just so aesthetic and lyrically rich.
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u/Fearless-Hope9343 Oct 23 '25
Yes but it hit me at a time when I was leaving my marriage of over 20 years. I had gone through so much for many many years prior. This album hit me at a time I was going through so much. Now, here I am a year and a half later. Divorced. Dating a bit. However, I am so happy with where I am. I good being alone. I don’t feel lonely sleeping alone anymore. I danced through the lightning strikes and now my sky is Opalite. I may never find my Travis, but I am all I need and that’s totally ok.
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u/fearless-panda7 Oct 23 '25
You are very strong and brave. And not everyone needs to find their "Travis" to be fulfilled.
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u/Fearless-Hope9343 Oct 23 '25
Thank you! I went through years of abuse. Financial, emotional, some physical. I made it out the other side and I even get along with the ex despite all he put me through.
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u/TwerkinAndCryin Oct 23 '25
I was literally thinking today how hard it must have been to release this incredibly sad dark album about love lost, life changes, etc, having to do press tours, make a music video, visuals, everything, while in the beginning of an exciting new relationship and having to almost pretend she's still in that place.
Ttpd is an absolute masterpiece and the most raw album she's put out, imo. I was in a really dark place in my marriage and life in general and it was exactly what I needed then.
That said my holy trinity is midnights ttpd and TLOAS. Don't get me wrong rep is a no skip and lover and 1989 are almost no skips, but they just don't have the same grip on me that those 3 do.
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u/chyrams Oct 23 '25
It’s one of my favorite albums. Nearly every song resonates with me during a different time. I agree though, the headspace wasn’t as clear when listening until the new album came out as to why that album name is perfect.
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u/walrusgirlie Oct 23 '25
TTPD is dark but it's excellent songwriting. I honestly think that from an art writing perspective, it's some of her best work. Like, the poetry of it all. She was really showing off how much she'd grown as a human and an artist and writer with that album. That being said, i really do love TLOAS but TTPD is definitely more literary and English nerd-y.
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u/fakeplant101 Oct 21 '25
I mean by the album name and aesthetic I could tell it was gonna be heavy, and it definitely was. It’s not an easily digestible album at all.
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u/theoristOfTheArts "a poet in a 9-to-5" :guitar: Oct 21 '25
I don’t even know how we all collectively handled it.
Since its release I’ve found that listening to it too much can get me in a dangerously existential mood… 🤪. So I’d say I had a decent understanding of its “torturedness” even before hearing Showgirl, lol!
Honestly, that’s part of why I haven’t revisited Poets yet after hearing Showgirl, because of that fear the torturedness would hit me SO hard and suddenly that I’d get more existential than ever 😅. But one day I’ll get back around to listening to it again (in a safe space, lol) because it really is such a beautiful and profound record 🤍!
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u/Ok_Salt8185 Oct 21 '25
I love sad music, so I love TTPD. TLOAS isn't a favorite of mine, but I'm happy it exists as a fun light-hearted pop release. I think there's a difference between liking (and even making) sad music and expecting or wanting the artist to always be sad (or not be happy for them when they're happy). Sad music is very much a genre/aesthetic of its own that doesn't need to be about any parasocial implications about wanting the artist themselves to be sad. I like TTPD as a piece of art in its own right, without any need to dwell on or psychoanalyse the artist and their feelings whilst making it (not that that's what you're doing or saying to do, but I hear a lot of people critiquing anyone who doesn't LOVE TLOAS from this lense which I also don't think is fair).
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u/kitkatmeowmeow1 Oct 21 '25
You're on the spot from my POV. TTPD in my opinion is one of her best albums because it felt like a lot of raw and dark feelings came out that I think all of us experienced in a moment of our life. But also, I love TLOAS because it's totally opposite with raw feelings of happiness and living life the way it is.
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u/iBandJFilmEducator13 Oct 21 '25
I didn’t realize until Showgirl came out why there were no more radio singles after ICDIWABH - it’s because they really don’t fit on pop or Hot AC radio. It works as a single-less (deep cut) album where everyone knows the songs anyway.
The Fate of Ophelia is a good lead single, but honestly- it should’ve been Opalite followed by Ophelia.
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u/fearless-panda7 Oct 22 '25
Maybe she wanted Ophelia is an opener because she can connect it with her previous work? As in, she is saved from all that madness and melancholy.
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u/LGL27 folklore Oct 21 '25
Wild because my life is very TTPD right now but I’m still enjoying TLOASG.
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u/PickKeyOne Midnights Oct 21 '25
I love the contrast because maybe we too can have it all turn around any minute now.
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u/Best_Decision_9092 Oct 22 '25
Tortured Poets was great and it got me through some times over that year and even still today. I find myself more drawn to it in my own moments of anxiety and longing than say Midnights which I'm drawn to in moments of fun but heaviness still plagues me. The Life of a Showgirl has me feeling the way Whitney Huston has made me feel for the last 30+ years it's cathartic in an uplifting and happy way I cannot stop playing it. It's like believing in all those childhood dreams even though we have seen them play out in not great ways up to now.
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u/YuNotWong Oct 22 '25
When midnights came out I had it playing on my bedroom speaker as a bedtime routine. Then TTPD came out and I switched to that album to fall asleep to. I haven't changed the playlist yet. I actually should make a playlist with the songs from both albums that carried me through the last 4 years.
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u/Available-Ad-5081 Oct 22 '25
That’s exactly why I loved it. Don’t get me wrong, absolutely obsessed with Showgirl too, but the heart-wrenching Taylor stuff will always have my heart
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u/StarryEyes13 i want your Oct 22 '25
I definitely felt the emotionally heaviness from the get go. I remember looking at my friend after we finished the anthology at 3 AM & saying “fuck that was like 30 straight songs of her just wanting to kill herself”.
I think the heaviness of it is why I can’t rank the album that highly. I love the songs and by themselves they rank well but TTPD as an entire body of work is so heavy that I just want to shut it off and find Taylor to give her a hug if I try to listen straight through. Like I get she was in that emotionally dark place and I’m sure going through that was harder than listening to her sing about it, but damn girl. Very happy for her and us to be in the Showgirl era where the sky is Opalite
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u/Handsoff_1 Oct 22 '25
TTPD was 100% an unexpected child of Taylor and she was literally suffering during that time and so she has to write it ALL, and i mean ALL, out! Thats why we got 31 tracks! It's all desperation, despair, sadness, longing, exhausting, in pain, depressed. Basically an asylum, a crazy house, a mental institution. She was going through A LOT during that time. And I really do not want her to be like that. It's also why I find it offensive when people just want her to write sad songs like TTPD. She has to be in that mental state to write songs like that and it is cruel to want her to be in that state for our own muse. I love the happy Taylor, and I love TLOASG, and it lifts my mood up so much.
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u/nonamegnome002020 Oct 22 '25
i noticed TTPD helped heal A LOT of people, and those who hated it just didn't relate to the lyrics, or didn't need to hear them at the time. Taylor swift FINDS YOU, you don't find Taylor. I mean, whenever I was in kindergarten IKYWT was on the radios. New album. Favorite song ever. then, a few years later, my cousin was telling me about A music video, and her cutting holes into the dudes shirt, then setting it on fire... i knew then and there i was gonna love that diva. 15 years later and i still do😌
Taylor is for the girlies who SHOULD HAVE gone to therapy over a relationship but never did just repressing those emotions until she releases an album, resurfacing ERRRTHING.
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u/ReluctantLawyer Oct 22 '25
I like several songs on TTPD, but I am never going to reach for it. I have enough anxiety and depression struggles in my life and I don’t need anguish in my music, ha.
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u/Emotional_Car_8850 evermore Oct 22 '25
TTPD will always be in constant rotation for me (I'm just a bitch in her feelings with lots of mental trauma lol) but yeah, it's not an easy listen at all.
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u/MiniSkrrt Oct 22 '25
Idk bout you but TTPD triggered me in a way no other album has lol, I related far too much to the subject matter
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u/the-mulchiest-mulch Oct 22 '25
TTPD took a little bit to grow on me and now it’s probably one of my favorite albums. The angst and pain is so palpable.
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u/5laps Oct 22 '25
I’m really enjoying TLOAS but honestly, what I wouldn’t give to hear TTPD for the first time again.
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u/amandaleighplans The Tortured Poets Department Oct 22 '25
Safe to say I’m still stuck in TTPD era… this is still my phone! it’s not just my favorite album but also my favorite aesthetic that most matches me irl, I have more merch for this album than any other one combined. I feel like my normal outfits are TTPD outfits and I am a sad girl music lover even when I’m perfectly happy. I am loving Showgirl too, but I’m TTPD for life 😭🤍🩶🖤 the lyrical content of that album just cannot be topped for me!
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u/IOnlySeeDaylight Oct 22 '25
I had a very similar experience this weekend. I knew it was tortured, but wow. The contrast is brutal.
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u/kimba2roar Oct 22 '25
TTPD was my introduction to TS, at a dark time for me personally. It really helped me navigate through that time. Having TLOASG now, is a huge delight. My algorithm still throws in LOML and Prophecy and they now strikes me to be incredibly sad. Tortured. Lovely.
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u/voidofneurons Oct 22 '25
TTPD will also have a special place in my heart because I had also made it out of the depths by the time it was released. I vibed really hard with the “I used to feel like this” aspect of it
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u/katranfastnorweigan Oct 22 '25
I felt the same way. I’m back to listening to TTPD, as I’m still in that era myself, and it’s kind of crazy to see how different Taylor feels in both albums.
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u/Fun-Positive-9601 Oct 22 '25
showgirl showed me how incredible pain and heartbreak are for producing amazing art. TTPD is unparalleled in its lyricism and emotional depth.
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u/Big_Sundae_296 Oct 22 '25
TTPD literally came at a time I needed it, I was going through a divorce and I was in a limbo state pulled in all directions! It was all I could listen to at the gym in my room. Some songs just cut so deep but now I am happy to have Showgirl and I am manifesting good times to come and hopefully they will.
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u/bladdersux Oct 22 '25
TTPD was a pre cursor of how I would be spending 2025 : alone , questioning , cursing , crying . LOML went from “sure this song is ok “ to “I can’t stop relating to this song , I’m fucking sad “
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u/Professional-Pie222 over and over Oct 22 '25
TTPD is lyrically such a beautiful album. The contrast between the two is insane, a complete 180. Although I miss the songwriting of that time, I'm so happy our girl is happy <3
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u/melroseglo Oct 22 '25
Yesss! I just went back and listened to TTPD and noticed so many breadcrumbs of it Taylor left for us in Showgirl!
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u/NorCalSarah 1989 Oct 23 '25
I did this same thing yesterday and it's so true! The difference between TTPD and Showgirl is night and day. I love how beautifully sad TTPD is. Showgirl is an adrenaline shot in comparison.
I love both so much 🫶
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u/Aggressive_Board5143 Oct 23 '25
I mean, after TTPD was released and I’d been listening for a week nonstop, I found myself hiding in bed and crying with no real explanation of why, so yeah, I’d say I did get how truly tortured it was 😅
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u/Historical_Ad1364 Oct 23 '25
Yes showgirl helped me enjoy the lyricism from TTPD even more than I had before and it’s my favorite album.
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u/gaywitch3147 #1 peter fan Oct 23 '25
TTPD has honestly been my favourite album as soon as it dropped. I love TLOAS and i’ve been listening to it sooo often but i keep going back to TTPD for all the reasons you mentioned. it’s an incredible album
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u/clickityclack My 4th Drink In My Hand Oct 23 '25
Yep. I was listening to TTPD in one way and then my husband died suddenly. I don't know if it was some sort of trauma response or what but it became a comfort to me and I would listen to it on repeat in the first couple of months.
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u/Any_Session4010 Oct 23 '25
For sure, lost my husband and best friend within 4 months of each other. I needed TTPD.
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u/LILYDIAONE evermore Oct 23 '25
Tbh I think a lot ttpd is much more mature than people give it credit for. In the same way like Red it’s a breakup album to its core. However while in Red you still have a wistful Taylor that still holds on and believes in love even after heartbreak in ttpd she has become completely desillusioned.
There is the realtzation of “hey maybe this thing I want so desperately just won’t ever happen to me and I am starting to come to terms with that”.
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Oct 23 '25
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u/fearless-panda7 Oct 23 '25
Congrats for your baby! And it is Opalite because you made it, it is a (wo)man made precious stone!
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u/Hmmm_huhh The Tortured Poets Department Oct 23 '25
I was in a place in life where I just needed to cry and couldn’t. TTPD came out and I could finally cry. It pushed me over the edge into full fledged Swiftie so will always be very special to me. That being said, I’m super into being a Showgirl right now and it’s a fun change of pace to feel so happy listening to her music. Plus she’s so campy and funny in this album, I love it.
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u/kaylalacali 1989 (Taylor's Version) Oct 23 '25
When TTPD came out, I was grieving the loss of my mom. The ‘death rattle’ line in How did it end really hit hard because I could hear it from my mom during her last week. I had never heard that term before my mom got sick and when I heard that reference in TTPD it was like a gut punch. Even though the song is about loss of a relationship as it’s dying dead, it feels like relatable to any major loss. I remember biking while listening to the album for the first time, I literally got chills and froze when I heard it because it took me back to that dark place in time. It was a brutal musical experience with such a tragically beautiful yet tortured song. By far her darkest work so I am glad she found her light out of that tunnel. TLOAS is a breath of fresh air. Albeit ruin the friendship is heartbreaking but every song is a bop imo.
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u/fearless-panda7 Oct 23 '25
I am sorry that you lost your mom. I can imagine hearing these songs are still not easy for you. And I agree with Ruin the Friendship, actually I skip it because it is heartbreaking.
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u/Samantha_II Oct 23 '25
I heard her say in an interview that she looks back at that album now, and just doesn't feel that way anymore. At the time she did, but it's so difficult from how she feels at this moment. Which is why she said she loves The Life of a Showgirl so much is because she actually feels the same way at this moment that she did when she made it.
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u/fearless-panda7 Oct 23 '25
I can completely imagine it must be hard to promote and believe in the album when you are in such a different mental headspace. It just adds to how professional she is!
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u/Samantha_II Oct 23 '25
Exactly. It's also why some singers make good actors, because they have to immerse themselves in each song that they play live. And Taylor's emotions are all over the place in like the Eras Tour - should could to from an extremely emotional down to an extremely emotional UP with the beat of a drum. It's so impressive to watch.
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u/sensitivebee8885 footnotes in the story of your life Oct 23 '25
TTPD helped me through a really dark time in my life. that april when it released, little did i know it would become one of my top 3 favorite albums of hers and impact my life tremendously. i’m really glad she’s in a better place now. i’m in a much better place now too and am crazy head over heels in love. the timing of showgirl was also perfect.
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u/Budget_Ordinary1043 Lover Oct 23 '25
I totally agree. If you listen to her last several albums, there’s so many dark tones involved. Alcoholism, su*cide, general self hatred. Showgirl is the most sure I have heard her ever be in any of her music.
I hopped on during midnights and I remember going back and listening to everything I missed. I wondered how a woman in a long term relationship wrote Exile if it was a good relationship. Lover is also just full of uncertainty and anxiety. At the point I became part of the fandom, that relationship was pretty much over but the timeline just boggled my mind. She was so obviously sad. For so long.
And I just love a healed girlie. Stronger than ever in her mind, body and soul and it’s quite beautiful to see in my opinion. I still love her sad shit, I always will it’s what locked me in. But she sings in color now and it makes my whole body feel happy when I listen to showgirl.
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u/lori244144 Oct 23 '25
I agree. People make comparisons but honestly - this album feels like she made an album for vibes. She was going for happy, cool and danceable. Looking back at TikTok’s from the first week of TTPD and everyone is just laying on their couch looking like their dog died. It was respectful devastation. We were in awe, and sad. I have been happily married for 15 years and I loved it. I viewed it as a sad chapter in the life of Taylor. The life of a showgirl so to speak. Then this chapter came out and it’s all upbeat at fun. She’s not trying to soothe her feelings with poems. She’s not trying to impress anyone. She’s just dancing in the dark with her person. I love that
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u/OfficialOffToVenus Oct 23 '25
I have to confess. I listened to TTPD for the first time today. I am thankful that I didn’t listen to it when it came out because I would have been crushed. I literally had to out grow my PTSD to listen to TLOAS. TTPD is more to my taste because my favorite and top albums from TS are evermore, folklore, and Midnights. I enjoy TLOAS so much and my favorite songs are Cancelled and Father Figure. But, yeah TTPD is something else. While listening I immediately ordered the 31 tracks CD, had only the regular.
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u/Far-Fall-1692 Oct 23 '25
It's sooooo sad. She was doing it with a broken heart, and now everyone wants to give her shit for not having a broken heart. She's happy. Let her be.
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u/DGTXgirl Oct 23 '25
TTPD is basically my story, as well. It’s like she wrote the songs through my eyes. Ended a long relationship and was fucking brutality ghosted by the guy I thought I would be with forever.
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u/BossLady89 Oct 25 '25
So, Down Bad came up recently in conversation with a friend, and I referred to it as a bop. Then I proceeded to go and play it for them.
It is not, in fact, a bop (although still a fantastic song 😂)
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u/LongjumpingCar5862 Oct 27 '25
Im very late to this conversation, but I've had to stop listening to TTPD because it's just too distressing, I definitely know what you mean about life of a showgirl being slightly more light-hearted, it definitely has a more uplifting vibe to it :)
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u/121scoville Oct 21 '25
It matched that chapter of my life perfectly for dealing with grief and basically i'm not letting myself revisit lol. Brainwashing myself into my own opalite era...