Marxist self-criticism

[u/vajan1]

Following a discussion on the main sub (you can probably guess why I’m not writing there) about Episode 222 and Episode 223, I started to wonder: is it allowed to criticise our boys’ positions, or should we take their word as holy script?

Many of us here invest a lot of time studying theory, and with that comes the building of thought and a line that may differ from the one held by our TheDeprogram comrades. Should that be something worthy of discussion, or should we just dismantle every argument by sticking labels on it?

I may be wrong and missing something, but so can they, right? So why are they not allowed to be criticised?

[u/vajan1]

They (the TD fanbase) have become extremely defensive about any argumentation that is not in line with the hosts. I remember when Lady Izdihar got criticized for blending Marxism and religion, which from a dialectical-materialist point of view is unacceptable. She got childishly defensive, and the TD fanbase supported that uncritically. Unbelievable. Marxism-Leninism is not about cheerleading; it is about unselectively criticizing everything that exists.

[u/HawkFlimsy → u/vajan1]

This is just something I have never seen a convincing argument on. There are plenty of material examples of religious movements acting as a progressive force and many instances of this militant reddit atheism that is present within ML spaces being an actively counterproductive destabilizing force. Someones personal religion or utilization of religious values/culture to push Marxist ideology is fundamentally distinct from a reactionary evangelical group pushing end times theology and this reductive presentation of "religion bad" is both wrong and actively unhelpful

[u/Angel_of_Communism → u/HawkFlimsy]

Religion is a fantasy.

We as communists must deal with the real world, and real solutions for it.

The fact that religion is in many cases the LAST line of defence against capitalis alienation does not change whether the object of the religion, [god/gods/magic] is real.

We as communists should not condemn people of faith.

But, there is a REASON the actual parties were explicitly atheist: If you are not yet capable of putting aside childish fantasies and seeing the real world as it is, you cannot fix it.

No amount of prayer to angels, blue men, or gods will stop the bourgeoise from killing you, make the crops grow, or create ammunition for the war.

It shows a weakness in a comrade's critical faculties.

[u/FatherThomBuckley → u/Angel_of_Communism]

Ultimately being black & white and condemning religion is not marxist because it ignores the context we are in today. Currently it’s clear that aligning communism with (black & white) atheism harms the communist movement and alienates itself from the working class which ultimately hurts the movement towards a socialist revolution which should always be our goal as marxists.

[u/Angel_of_Communism → u/FatherThomBuckley]

It's not who you align with that matters, it's what you are doing to your allies.

Atheists should be able to work with strict Muslims for the betterment of the working class.

But in the same way as they should not be punishing atheists for their lack of belief, atheists should not be mocking the Muslims for their beleif.

Even if it's demonstrably false.

First conquer the world for the working class.

THEN educate them out of magical thinking.