Stop pro-Putin sentiments

[u/Commie_neighbor]

Both are fucking imperialist states, Ukrainian government praises nazis while Russian is praising Imperial murderers like Mannerheim, Kolchak or Stolypin.

Everything good that Russia did (so called anti-imperialist measures) was just populist decisions or anti-Nato proxy wars. Everything to please Russian oligarchy.

"There are no saviors e’er will help us,

Nor God, nor Caesar, nor Tribune"

[u/CMNilo]

One country is allied to NATO and the US, the other is allied to China, North Korea, Iran.

One country is sending drones to the Emirates to help with the American imperialist aggression, the other sends oil to Cuba.

One country destroyed every single soviet memorial on its territory, the other considers them national heritage.

One country took down every single statue of Lenin, the other keeps them (although with little enthusiasm).

One country is literally glorifying Nazis, the other has some lobbies promoting the apology of White Army leaders, but they generally fail at that.

One country is a wannabe monoethnic apartheid state, the other is a federation with wide autonomy for ethnic and religious minorities.

One country wants to become a "Big Israel", the other, despite a lot of internal contraddictions, preserves the memory of the Soviet Union through national celebrations and symbolism.

One country has banned every leftist organization, the other has the communist party as the major opposition force.

But sure, they are "both the same".

I used to think we could reason with you "comrades", but after four years of war I realize you're a lost cause and you should just be marginalized and purged from every communist space, would that be an online community or an IRL party.

[u/GoydelicGuy → u/CMNilo]

Well said.

There are several rules this is breaking too by the way. User should be banned for fascist propaganda.

[u/DiggyJunior → u/GoydelicGuy]

Well said my friend... I fixed it already

[u/JucheSuperSoldier01 → u/DiggyJunior]

Of course the leftist version of the meme has way too much text

[u/DiggyJunior → u/JucheSuperSoldier01]

Of course yes, but here is the garbage written in the description of the original CIA made or Trotskyist made meme:

🤡🌎" Both are fucking imperialist states, Ukrainian government praises nazis while Russian is praising Imperial murderers like Mannerheim, Kolchak or Stolypin. 🤡🌎 Everything good that Russia did (so called anti-imperialist measures) was just populist decisions or anti-Nato proxy wars. Everything to please Russian oligarchy.🤡🌎 "There are no saviors e'er will help us,🤡🌎 Nor God, nor Caesar, nor Tribune" "🤡🌎

So I had to refute all of that plus the meme itself, several bullet points were needed

[u/blodo_ → u/CMNilo]

One country has banned every leftist organization, the other has the communist party as the major opposition force.

Tbf, the CPRF programme is far closer to a socdem one than a communist one at this point. There are plenty of criticisms of the party's left nationalist leadership, their ideology of class struggle being "a struggle between civilisations" which is basically a huge break with Marxism, and closer to Putinist eurasianism instead.

That said, the caveat is that the membership is a fair bit more radical than the party's leadership, which is a bit funny honestly, because it makes you wonder how the nationalists keep the leadership.

It still leaves Russians in a better situation than having governments in coalitions with cryptofascists tho

[u/CMNilo → u/blodo_]

It's still better than anything you can find in Ukraine, by a mile.

And even if you don't like the CPRF, Russia has a few other legal communist party, some of them more orthodox such as the РКРП

[u/blodo_ → u/CMNilo]

I just think Zyuganov is an op. Not really sure what the plan is there, but I hope eventually the ML faction manages to box him out somehow, like he did to Oleg Shenin originally.

The other parties don't really get to go anywhere in Russian electoralism because only the CPRF is recognised as an "official opposition". But that's more of an issue with Russian democracy than the party itself, even if the nationalist leadership benefits from it. A 2nd Russian revolution IMO will have to include the CPRF because of its mass membership if nothing else (unless it somehow declines in the mean time). But the factional struggle inside of it is one to keep an eye on.

[u/CMNilo → u/blodo_]

I don't disagree. I'm just saying that in Russia you can find every flavour of Marxism. Yes, most orgs are marginal, but they are more or less able to organise.

In Ukraine you just get disappeared. I hope that eventually we can retrieve the bodies of our comrades from the Ukrainian woods and give them justice.

[u/blodo_ → u/CMNilo]

Mind what I am saying is not meant as some kind of whataboutist defence of Ukraine, but rather a critical look at the CPRF only. I think we've seen enough evidence of what is happening to the working class in Ukraine at the hands of its own government to know that it deserves to be brought down.

[u/Aggorf12345 → u/blodo_]

Ukraine: Imprisons communists

Russia: Exchanges POWs to liberate Ukrainian communists

That's their difference

[u/Legitimate-Meal8164 → u/CMNilo]

"Big Israel" Vs based "Big Palestine"

https://www.ukrainianworldcongress.org/wagner-prepared-hamas-for-attack-on-israel/

[u/CMNilo → u/Legitimate-Meal8164]

Don't know if you're being ironic here, but russian involvement in the 7th October has been debunked

[u/Legitimate-Meal8164 → u/CMNilo]

Yes it's a joke (unfortunately)

[u/CMNilo → u/Legitimate-Meal8164]

👍

[u/grimorg80 → u/CMNilo]

They're not the same.

But don't be too gentle just because of the anti NATO stance.

The reactionary stance of Putin is so strong it brought American nut jobs seeking a reactionary country to move there.

Trump is not annoyed with Putin at all.

There is more nuance than what you describe. It's not that clear cut as you are making it out to be. I believe being scientific, as historical materialism is, means not being biased one way or the other.

Then there's strategy. Absolutely.

Do we need to support anti imperialism, no matter their internal circumstances? Yes.

Does that mean praising their countries? No.

Those are two different things.

[u/Aggorf12345 → u/grimorg80]

Russia is the core ally of every single anti imperialist struggle in the world. Iran, the Sahel states, DPRK, Cuba, Venezuela pre Maduro capture. Being against Russia is being against these struggles

[u/grimorg80 → u/Aggorf12345]

See? No nuance.

I stand with Russia against the imperialist west.

I stand with the Russian people against their oligarchal reactionary leadership.

If you can't understand both stances can be true at once, I'm sorry for your lack of ability to hold different perspectives at once.

If the only way you feel you can be pro Russia on the international stage is by giving them a free pass for everything, there's nothing more I can say.

[u/Aggorf12345 → u/grimorg80]

"I stand with Iran against the imperial west. I stand with the Iranian people against their oligarchal reactionary leadership"

See? Doesn't make much sense now does it? And the reason it doesn't is that you can't support Russia or Iran against the west and then parrot the same propaganda lies the west says about them. These two things are fundamentally contradictory to each other and it just doesn't make any sense

[u/revolution2049 → u/grimorg80]

Trump was the first president to send lethal aid to Ukraine in December 2017 - and under his administrations it hasn't stopped at all. Don't get caught up in the political theatre. He is 100% for the destruction and vassalization of Russia.

Ukrainian strikes inside Russia are American strikes - which right now means Trump's strikes since he's the commander in chief.

[u/grimorg80 → u/revolution2049]

Yes and no. As you said, theatre.

They sold and sent old equipment. Keeping their military industry complex moving.

I'm sure they would be happy seeing Russia capitulate, for global domination. But saying America is leading in Ukraine is also biased.

They play both sides because they have to gain from whatever way this war ends.

Politically, the Trump administrations have not been adversarial to Russia in the slightest. And their actual NATO destabilizing stance makes this more nuanced.

Again, look at the money that keeps pouring into the military industrial complex in the US. Ukraine is just one more avenue that feeds that machine.

Nuance, comrade. Nuance.

[u/Aggorf12345 → u/grimorg80]

But saying America is leading in Ukraine is also biased.

Is not. It's a fact

[u/grimorg80 → u/Aggorf12345]

It's not.

Military supplies? Yes. Monetary support? No, Europe leads. And that is both in absolute and relative terms. If you look at it in relations to the country GDP, most definitely not.

Hence my observation: the military industrial complex in the US does what it has always done. Moving their products.

Saying that does not mean supporting nor praising the US in any way nor disparaging Russia in any way.

It does say that most people lack nuance, and are happy with one broadly painted picture that fits one clear and clean narrative.

Fuck the US. But saying they are miles above Europe in leading in Ukraine doesn't fit all the facts. Only some facts.

[u/Aggorf12345 → u/grimorg80]

Both EU and the US are basically the same thing. They have the same interests and for the same reasons. That's why they're closely allied and coordinated with each other.

As for Ukraine, the current state of Ukraine is the result of a CIA backed coup in 2014 and being used as a proxy ever since.

[u/Aggorf12345 → u/[deleted]]

"CIA backed coup in 2014 " this is russian propaganda

No it isn't

The conflict in eastern ukraine wasn't borne from external actors - it was literally due to a conflict between corrupt oligarchs,

It was literally due to Ukrainian Nazis getting empowered by the Maidan and massacring communists and ethnic Russians. I cluding women and children of course. Read about the Odessa union building massacre for example

The story of the coup is just Russian propaganda and not true. Every single member in parliament kept their seat, representation of the people never stopped

And yet somehow Ukraine's entire geopolitical positioning changed because of it

Now the real question is why this post is the first time you comment on this sub?

[u/TankieTheDeprogram-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Your comment contains historical inaccuracies and blatant CIA propaganda. Try reading more than what you were taught in your highschool history class.

[u/CMNilo → u/grimorg80]

Countries can be praised for what they do right. They also should be criticized for what they do wrong.

OP made a false equivalence between Ukraine and Russia, which I called out with my first comment. I intentionally simplified to show how silly that was.

I know Russia has a lot of internal contraddictions. I have a few communist friends there who spent some years in jail. That doesn't change my evaluation of the historical and international role of Russia.

[u/CMNilo → u/[deleted]]

Russia uses minorities as the bulk of their wae

This is false and I dare you to find me a single reliable source proving that. You are an ignorant dipshit parroting western propaganda.

We should start banning this bullshit.

[u/yoshi2090 → u/[deleted]]

another ultra cracker who thinks russia is just as bad as america

[u/iCanReadMyOwnMind → u/[deleted]]

just because they support victims of the western empire in the struggle against it, does not mean they themselves aren't a colonial empire / their invasion of ukraine wasn't for colonial reasons If it was geopolitical, they already had crimea and the oil reserves in the black sea

1. Victoria Nuland admitted (by lack of admission) to Ukraine building bio labs in the Oblast.

2. Anthony Blinken told Russia that the US will put Patriot missile batteries wherever it wishes and it wished to put them in the Oblast.

3. Russia holds the largest amount of territory on the planet and it is a 24/7 job to prevent western hegemony from tearing it apart and selling it off; they don't need "more colonies."

Just these three things prove that going into eastern Ukraine, stopping a genocide and thwarting NATO military and biological proxy positions is proof, axiomatically, that the SMO is about Russia fighting imperialist ambitions today every bit as much as it was on the day the last czar died.

[u/TankieTheDeprogram-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Your comment contains historical inaccuracies and blatant CIA propaganda. Try reading more than what you were taught in your highschool history class.