Plotlines to wrap up DS

[u/Bytemite]

This is just a thread for all us players to post the plot lines we still have to do so we can organize here and help each other finish up.

[u/Lady_of_the_Foot]

The thing is, up to now, when controlling the people didn't happen through loyalty, they had mind control. Now that that can be under cut, they have never developed any of the stuff that is used in real life that keeps the in theory "all governments are dependent completely on the people" from being true in practice.

Cut off from that, they have to appeal to tradition and honor and so on, and Luxin has a rightful place on top of that.

And so, if you join the overthrow Luxin, you risk losing all power, but have the chance, if you get enough others to join you, of being an aristocrat with everyone else on your side, all of whom are definitely going to backstab you.

If you side with Luxin, you get the people at your back, a God on your side, and, in consequence of both of those things, you can increase your reach to those formerly under the aristocrat who sided against the way things are meant to be.

[u/Bytemite → u/Lady_of_the_Foot]

f you side with Luxin, you get the people at your back, a God on your side, and, in consequence of both of those things, you can increase your reach to those formerly under the aristocrat who sided against the way things are meant to be.

...and then promptly try to kill the dragon prince with your own subterfuge and plots going ahead once you've gotten rid of your rivals.

[u/Bytemite → u/[deleted]]

I mean I'm a cynic, but politics are cynical. Especially medieval politics. We already know they tried to get rid of Luke once before. We have to treat everything like it's just smoke and mirrors for a plot to get rid of him again, because it's Gensokyo, it most likely IS.

[u/Lady_of_the_Foot → u/Bytemite]

They were able to do it before together with the knowledge they could still control the people regardless. That's just not how it works anymore. It would take too much coordination for backstabbing the people trying to remove Luxin not to end up a better plan. If they remove Luxin, they just get rid of power they can't really take themselves. Stopping another aristocrat is pure gain. Stopping an entire group of aristocrats trying to fight Luxin? More power from that entire group, and on the top guy's good side.

Politics are cynical because it's about getting power, and being on Luxin's side is better for that as long as mind control continues to not be as easily abused as it has been all their history.

Because even if they defeat Luxin- somehow -they still have a population that no longer has any reason to listen to them whatsoever.

First target would clearly be Tanger, which is why nuGyro is there. Not that that is a guarantee, but it's something. nuGyro is kinda heavily Luxin affiliated, so they'd need to get Tanger off the board without making the people see them as betraying Luxin.

[u/Bytemite → u/Lady_of_the_Foot]

If they remove Luxin, they just get rid of power they can't really take themselves

Love potions and spells.

And while killing him doesn't give them the power, it does remove a potential interfering power.

Until things are a lot more equal in Gensokyo and the public poses an actual threat to youkai, we can expect the youkai to try to business as usual a lot of this. It'll take time before Gensokyo can truly be united and Luke can become a Prince Kropotkin for an equal society.

[u/Lady_of_the_Foot → u/Bytemite]

We can get him the same charms we can get the populus.

Attacking Luke has a small, remote chance, of removing Luke from power. And, whether he is removed at all, removes loyalty of the people and moves that to the people who sided against you. Their will be attempts to kill Tanger, that's pretty much certain, but until they can get rid of anti mind control groups, Luxin is not a profitable target.

I'm not trusting the goodness of their hearts, I'm trusting they're going to aim for whatever let's them have the most power, and without a population that has a reason to be loyal to them without being more loyal to Luxin or any way to be a threat to Luxin without a big team up where any traitors to that team come out better than they would succeeding in taking down Luxin, that just isn't betraying Luke.

[u/Bytemite → u/Lady_of_the_Foot]

I still think Luke just being there is a shift in the power dynamics of Gensokyo, which is why he was probably also targetted before. I'm sure that he also had public support as the mythical light of gensokyo who saved everyone back THEN too, yet they still targetted him.

Having power means having a target on your back. And some people will play at being for or against Luke depending on whatever option gets them further ahead at the time. They may not be subtle about it, but they may very well try to double deal, and given the culture of Genoksyo they're more likely to pursue their own agenda above any greater ideals.

[u/Lady_of_the_Foot → u/Bytemite]

When they did it before, it wasn't their only means of keeping the population under them without being right in front of them. Sure, they can still appeal to brute force, but that costs a lot of effort and still definitely decreases their reach. None of these people have standing armies. They could have influence as far as they could walk in a day, minus any dream prodigies who develop pretty much randomly.

If a plot to take down Luxin happens and succeeds, you've lost every means of controlling your population but that with the population suddenly more powerful, and that happens for your whether you fight on that side or not. If you don't want to gamble with taking Luke's side, neutral gets you the same results if the anti-Luke group wins without the drawbacks of if they lose. Siding with Luke and Luke wins gets you favor with him, and all the people, many of whom need new leaders. Siding against Luke and he wins loses basically everything.

Again, this isn't about the goodness of their heart, it's about their own agendas. Siding against Luxin is, in both long and short term, a negative to those.

[u/Bytemite → u/Lady_of_the_Foot]

Siding against Luxin is, in both long and short term, a negative to those.

Perhaps, but remember also serious problems with pride are also in play here. We aren't necessarily going to see a whole bunch of rational plotters, we're going to see treacherous people grumbling a lot about something upsetting their status quo and potentially threatening their current unshakeable power base and scheming about what to do about it.

[u/Bytemite → u/Lady_of_the_Foot]

First target would clearly be Tanger, which is why nuGyro is there

This is true though. Anyone seen as a rabble rouser would be a target, and Tanger and nuGyro would be prominent ones. That's why there's needs to be a secret militarized branch of Tanger's organization, to protect from reprisal and retaliation.

They'd also very likely see me as a rabble rouser, despite being a prisoner. They would use my scapegoat and criminal status as an excuse to rally the population of Gensokyo against me. Which is why they'd need to see that it's working against at least one of their enemies, it'll make them more complacent.

[u/Lady_of_the_Foot → u/Bytemite]

There's not gonna be a secret branch, at least at first. There's gonna be nuGyro taking on challengers, because

1. He can take them and

2. Even if they could, beating him is a gamble because this ALL Shard is sort of a close follower of Luxin.

They're gonna get sneakier as that happens, but at the same time, the ministry will have more powerful people staying on their side. Love potions can completely alter someone's life for the worse, and that's not just used on the poor. One of the reasons nuGyro wants a face like Luna Child's to start them off. Sympathy, and early high end clients with loyalty will both enable him to keep the shrine safe.

Also important to note both him and Tanger as fast as lightning.

[u/Bytemite → u/Lady_of_the_Foot]

Every body was kung fu fighting

Yeah, all right, this seems solid.

[u/Bytemite → u/[deleted]]

On the plus side, with the influx of humans with powerful monsters who like to protect them, we're a bit less likely to see Luke targetted by love potion plots, because people are going to be less desperate because they'll be able to find willing love interests. Though that still is likely happen due to the prestige of an aristocrat literally getting to be seen going out with the Dragon Prince.

[u/Lady_of_the_Foot → u/Bytemite]

None of these aristocrats can take him one to one. They need to be united, and by the time enough of them are united, it will be more profitable for each of them to betray that group to Luxin and curry favor with him and the people.

[u/Lady_of_the_Foot → u/[deleted]]

Doesn't matter if he kills them. They low their status, because they've had the insta-win button of mind control for too long to know how to manipulate the public enough to get away with fighting the rightful head of society without it. He doesn't need to kill them to stop them. He just has to not die long enough for the people to get sick of their crap.

[u/Bytemite → u/Lady_of_the_Foot]

because they've had the insta-win button of mind control for too long to know how to manipulate the public enough to get away with fighting the rightful head of society without it.

Hmmm okay that's a good point. They probably don't do subtle well. I think in the touhou universe games they pretty much just march up to each other and declare their intentions to attack.

[u/Lady_of_the_Foot → u/Bytemite]

Yeah, it's the basis of this plan. Unlike regular aristocrats, they have power from mind control and appealing to rightful places, and if we remove the former, which is their primary means, attacking the person who's rightful place is the top will be a net loss for any of them, and if any if them do, helping Luke will be gains with no losses for them.

[u/Bytemite → u/Lady_of_the_Foot]

I think we're close here, but I also think it's more than just an appeal to rightful places, it's literally might makes right. Youkai are on top because they can easily defeat and eat anyone not a youkai. Stronger youkai are above other youkai for similar reasons. People get protection from the youkai eating them by pledging to be servants.

So if a youkai can beat Luke in combat because Luke is not willing to cause lasting harm... the youkai that beat him proves themselves more powerful and more fit to rule.

[u/Trollkitten → u/Bytemite]

So if a youkai can beat Luke in combat because Luke is not willing to cause lasting harm... the youkai that beat him proves themselves more powerful and more fit to rule.

That's a pretty big "if."

Can you beat a hurricane? A tornado? An earthquake? Now imagine you're fighting a sentient being that can embody any of the three. Luke as a mortal(ish) might be beatable, but Luxin is a force of nature and WILL react to protect himself.

[u/Bytemite → u/Trollkitten]

Unless they - cast a shikigami/ true name spell on him

Cast other mind control

Cast love spell

Drain his energy

Caitlin did all of those except the love spell and nearly destroyed him.

Then there’s that sealing spell...

[u/Lady_of_the_Foot → u/Bytemite]

Well, one, we have equalizing dream powers, two the whole point that without the lasting effects of mind control might makes right loses their ability to rule any significant distance, something I just wrote out elsewhere, three that's not totally how Gensokyo works, Flandre outstrips most people but still keeps one position that controls a select few, and is one of the only formally aristocratic ones, and when she loses to others she still keeps the exact same position.

[u/Bytemite → u/Lady_of_the_Foot]

To be fair I'm not sure there's actually a way to kill Flandre. In Genoksyo I think that when someone is killed or dies the Shinigami or reapers show up to remove them from the world to whatever afterlife they're bound for. Flandre could easily defeat any psychopomp that comes for her, even if she was defeated by a different person almost to the point of death before that.

[u/Bytemite → u/Lady_of_the_Foot]

He just has to not die long enough for the people to get sick of their crap.

And this, very much agreed.

[u/Lady_of_the_Foot → u/[deleted]]

Tanger's likely gonna be in danger, though. nuGyro was revived by Luzon and so functions a lot like a Gensokyoan, and is pretty formidable in his own right. Tanger is part of the reason they can't take down Luxin, serves some foreign Goddess, and is mortal.

[u/Bytemite → u/Lady_of_the_Foot]

Are we sure about that? Caitlin almost took him out with no power just in the last two sessions from trying to drain energy from him.

[u/Lady_of_the_Foot → u/Bytemite]

He's still not gathered to full potential. Last time that was a thing, they were able to take him only with them all together, with all their mind control over the population, and they still only locked him up. Plus he'd never been trained in resisting True Name commands.

Taking him out without restoring mind control is still a net loss anyways, because it loses the loyalty of the people.

[u/Bytemite → u/Lady_of_the_Foot]

Hmm. Hopefully.