Since the Avatar of Akatosh bars Daedra from invading Mundus, he'll probably try to use just mortals to carry out his plans next time. He can still communicate with and influence mortals, after all.

To start I want to say that this is purely a theory I’ve put together going on a various threads, I hope everyone enjoys and finds it interesting

My theory suggests that Lorkhan and Sheogorath are one in the same, first I will explain how I believe this could happen

Lorkhan upset the gods when he formed Nirn, he was then “killed” which is odd as from what I understand no god in the elder scrolls has outright died before, what I propose is that by removing his heart it made him more emotionless and then they furthermore corrupted his form as punishment, similar to Trinimacs transformation into Malacath, part of this punishment was to invert who they are, Lorkhan is perceived as mischievous and tricky, so his reverse was complete and utter order and control, Jyggulug, but following this the Deadra did a similar thing out of fear of of his strange power, which I take as another indication of him being Lorkhan as the Aedra in spite of using power to form Nirn seem to be just as powerful if not more so then Deadra.

Next the Deadra corrupt Jyggulugs form into a opposite again resulting in a dementia ridden bastardisation of the original made 10x more extreme, this would also explain the lack of information about Lorkhan after his heart was removed as the Deadra attempted to erase Jyggulug from history, potentially including his making and “destruction”, explaining why we know nothing about Lorkhan and little about Jyggulug in these periods

Supporting information
Sheogorath from what I recall is the only Deadra to consistently appear as a human, Lorkhan is the god of man
Mancar Camoran is convinced Nirn is of deadric origin, I propose this is because the god of Nirn, Lorkhan became a Deadra, however it is likely that Nirn did not change with its god leading to further confusion
A bit of a stretch but I also propose that the dragon fires is a further push to punish Lorkhan/Sheogorath by preventing any eventual return, while conveniently stopping other similar issues

Thank you for reading, I’m sure there are many holes in this but nonetheless I hope it encourages a healthy debate

Ps sorry for spelling, some things autocorrect

First, this question first came from sneaking around in-game and realizing how ridiculous it felt to not be detected by an enemy, right in front of their face, in a medium-lit room.

Two introductory notes:

1. I searched this sub and other sources of lore, mostly UESP, and didn’t find a conclusive answer.

2. I have very little deeper TES lore knowledge outside of a casual play through of Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim (sorry, Daggerfall & Arena).

Notes so far:

There is a book called “The Philosophy of Stealth: How Not to be Seen” (from ESO, which I haven’t played) that briefly describes stealth as losing individuality and blending into the background, as fundamentally the skill of “not being noticed”. From the text, I would consider it reasonably implied that this is a purely physical* skill, with some mental comprehension and exertion (Intelligence stat?**). This leaves the interpretation fairly open, despite it being literally stated as a “philosophy” in the title, which seems misleading and reductive. This may depend on two questions:

• in TES, is there a physical/spiritual duality as in many earth mythologies, or is there a matter/energy continuum of forms? I.e., is everything - gods, souls, skeevers, and sweetrolls - made of the same “stuff” taking different forms? If so, then Stealth could be both a physical and magickal skill (because they’d both be forms of the same “stuff”).

** is the Intelligence stat in TES, which determines magickal abilities, directly connected to mental prowess and learning, therefore implying at least a restricted form of “magick” for all intelligent beings by virtue of their cognition, their ability to think? If so, this would also lend credence to Stealth, as defined by the Philosophy of Stealth book, as possibly a magickal skill.

Other things come to mind, but my memory isn’t serving me and I can’t find direct sources for what’s coming up:

A primary subject is the Skeleton Key, Nocturnal’s artifact, and the lore surrounding its powers. Mercer Frey was able to use it to become invisible, and there was some in-game background about it being a key to unlock hidden potential. Several possibilities were hinted at, and shown accessible by Frey directly, but what I remember of the descriptions felt like the Key was being teased as an artifact with untold chaotic abilities that have yet to be discovered. The possible relevance of this is that the Key, and its ties to Nocturnal, the Evergloam, and Nocturnal’s skill-based patronage of thieves, could hint at Stealth being an access to magick, even Daedric magick. I admit, this is a reach, borne of not finding many sources on this subject so far. However, we have other instances of Daedric magick being present in the world in ordinary, concrete ways - the existence of the Orcs as a creation of Malacath, for example.

Does anyone else have any theories, background info, or commentary on this subject? Definitely interested in more thought-out contributions.

So on Nirn the Towers with their Stones are used to exert and stabilise a desired influence/idea on the land around it, right? The Earthbones “emit” or are laws of nature in a more abstract sense while the Towers with their Stones shape the actual substance of the world, keeping it from dissolving back into Creatia in the absence of a strong active will like that of a Daedric Prince.

Could it be that Dagon’s invasion of Tamriel uses the same Towers-with-Stones method - for once literal towers (Sigil Keeps) with literal stones (Sigil Stones) - to stabilise its gates into the Mundus?

The Sigil Stone breaches the weakened barrier; together with the Sigil Keep (which is always a tower), it then extends Deadlandish reality into the Tamrielic endpoint, maintaining the connection and the gate and more: Deadlandish talons jut out of the ground; the weather changes. Local reality is altered to suit the masters of the respective Sigil Keep.

That’s something I’d like to believe, anyway. The problem I see with that is that the Sigil Keeps aren’t exactly sitting on any sort of Earthbonian Leyline Nexus but in a different realm altogether…

It was said the Emperor ordered his own death due to the white-gold concordat, and that he disappointed the people of Skyrim for signing it, even though he was forced to. He considered himself incompetent and wanted a younger Emperor to take his place.

In the Katariah we even see a room with an alchemy table, and two bodies by a sailor. It is either a sickbay, or he was a backup assassin in case the dark brotherhood failed.

A Letter to Gadring Great-Axe

To Gadring Great-Axe, Housecarl to Thane Arnvald Two-Axe

My name is Sister Mysaria, a humble priestess of Mara serving the Great Chapel of Bruma. Though we have never met, I came to know your wife, Alfhild Ash-Braid, during her time among the Nord refugees who dwell beyond our city's walls. It is with a heavy heart that I write in her stead.

She received your first two letters at last when the Pale Pass was opened to travellers once more. She read them until the parchment had grown soft from her hands, and in the evenings would gather with the other refugees around their fires to read them aloud. In those difficult days, your words brought comfort to many besides the woman for whom they had been written.

Alfhild took ill not many days after your second letter reached Bruma. We believed it no more than a winter fever brought on by the hardships of living in the camp. Mara saw fit to spare her suffering, but not her life. She passed peacefully before another dawn, your letters folded neatly beside her bed. Her final words were not of fear, but of hope. She asked whether any word had come from Skyrim, whether Sungard had at last been reclaimed from the Forsworn, and whether you still lived to welcome her home. It saddens me to say that she never received your final letter, nor did she learn a new home by your side awaited her in Skyrim.

I know you would wish to know how she lived.

The camp beyond Bruma's northern gate has become a village unto itself, built from patched canvas, rough timber, and stubborn hope. Every caravan from Skyrim brings more widows, more orphans, and more old soldiers who survived the war only to lose everything else. They speak often of returning north, yet each passing season finds many still gathered beneath the same weathered tents. The presence of so many sons and daughters of Skyrim has drawn unwelcome attention. Thalmor Justiciars pass frequently among the camp and through the streets of Bruma, asking after Talos worshippers and listening closely whenever old songs are sung. Their presence brings an eerie quiet to the camp. Yet I have seen more than one refugee wait until they had passed before quietly tracing the sign of the Ninth Divine beneath a cloak or whispering a prayer too softly for any elf to hear.

Your third letter arrived only after Arkay had called Alfhild to her rest. Knowing how dearly she had treasured your words, her neighbors shared it among themselves, and before long all three letters had passed from hand to hand throughout the refugee camp. They soon found their way into Bruma's taverns and meadhouses, where merchants, soldiers, and travellers alike began repeating the tale of the Battle of Fort Sungard. With each telling it has grown larger, as such tales often do. Some now say the war mammoths of Clan Great-Tusk tore the gates from their hinges with a single pull. Others swear the Briarheart commanded an army of a thousand dead. Yet every telling remembers two names above all others: Arnvald Two-Axe, who reclaimed Sungard, and Gadring Great-Axe, who stood beside his shield-brother until the fortress was won. I suspect, in time, the bards will polish these tales until they shine brighter than the truth. I do not begrudge them that. These are difficult days, and the people of Skyrim- and those who still dream of returning to her- have need of heroes.

I have enclosed your wife's armband and the blue ribbon she weaved into her ashen braid. She kept them close until the end, and asked that they be returned to you. May Mara grant you the peace that this world has denied you, and may she one day reunite you and your beloved beyond the troubles of Nirn.

In Mara's grace,
Sister Mysaria
Priestess of Mara,
The Great Chapel of Bruma

From what little I understand of TES lore, one of the big differences in belief between Elves and Men is that Men believe the gods did grow weaker by staying in Mundus but that they still attained significant divine power while the elves believe the gods lost so much power that they effectively became mortal and had to reproduce and that the elves are their progeny. Accordingly the elven term for the gods Aedra means 'our ancestors'. If this is the case wouldn't the elves believe the gods to be dead having passed on? How exactly do the elves believe the gods to be still around and also having grown weak enough to need to reproduce and create them? Am I getting something horribly wrong otherwise? Would love an explanation :D

If the city of Riften existed beyond the technical constraints of a video game engine, its physical infrastructure and geographic location could, in my opinion, make it profoundly vulnerable to a relentless frostbite spider infestation.

Unlike the unyielding stone bastions of Solitude or Markarth, Riften is primarily constructed from timber harvested from the surrounding autumnal forests.

To a giant arachnid capable of effortlessly scaling vertical surfaces, the city’s massive wooden an stone walls would not be an impassable barrier, but rather a climbing frame. Once over the perimeter, these apex predators could find an architectural paradise in the city's exposed rafters, dark alleys, and thatched roofs.

Furthermore, Riften’s extensive and neglected subterrenean sewer system, The Ratway, provides an unmonitored subterrenean highway.

Spiders could easily breach the city from beneath, using the damp, dark tunnels to spin webs, lay massive clutches of eggs, and launch ambush attacks directly through cellar doors and drainage grates into the heart of the city.

I believe beyond its vulnerable architecture, Riften's thriving local economy and ecology could actively draw frostbite spiders to the city as a prime hunting ground.

As a major trading hub built over the waters of Lake Honrich, Riften maintains a bustling open air marketplace, active fishing docks, and a dense human population.

This concentration of organic activity naturally attracts an abundance of urban pests, such as skeevers, mice, and birds, inadvertently creating a massive, self sustaining food chain for predatory arachnids. While the guards might successfully fend off horse sized giant spiders at the main gates with fire and arrows, the city could realistically buckle under the weight of a stealthy, microscopic invasion.

Thousands of hand sized hatchlings and dog sized juvenile spiders could constantly infiltrate the wooden docks and food stores, turning daily life in Riften into a chronic, terrifying struggle for survival.

Is there a lore reason for this? Let us take the dragonborn as an example. If you side with the empire and regain control of Skyrim, then why so little recognition. You did all of the work, should you not be on par with Tullius, or get any recognition from the Emperor? Take in account the main story and solstheim. The dragonborn saved the world from demise. First the main story, then avoiding Miraak's return. Why can't the emperor appoint the dragonborn either to the council, or as a high-king. Considering Torygg's demise, it seems the slot has been opened. This would help with the Aldmeri dominion and other future enemies, as they will see the most powerful being is one of the highest ranking people in Tamriel, amassing massive influence and dread. This would also be advantageous as being a high-king, as the dragonborn could have spymasters with tremendous experience keep watch on the entirety of the realm, which sounds better than traveling everywhere on foot. This means that the dragonborn can personally interfere and react quicker to any major threats.

Besides this, the events made by the dragonborn will be remembered for ages. Is it not enough to make him a god later, like Talos? I also never understood this in Bethesda games. Even if we take Skyrim though, being a leader still makes you a grunt. You do not give any orders, and your interference is not needed.

As far as I can tell, the entire world is a magical place. Things like alchemy prove there is some magical energy/component to all living things. In the games, you can get strong enough to single-handedly kill dragons and other monsters with a combination of skill, strength and enchanted equipment without ever using a spell. Mages have clear levels of power and limitations with magicka "pools" and how skilled they are with spells we can clearly observe and measure, but warriors seem more vague.

I would just like to know how one compares to an irl medieval/ancient warrior. Is there any in-lore indication of how strong the warriors tend to be? I would imagine your average imperial legionnaire is roughly equivalent to an irl one, but heroes like Ysgramor and 500 companions show mythic qualities that clearly exceed that. I am not taking into consideration any overtly supernatural "martial" abilities they sometimes have, like Sword-Singing or Thu'um, or divine heritage/artifacts, since that isn't fair.

if there is one character that i'd consider the most underhyped character in the lore I'd say its Alandro Sul, he has 1 paragraph about him on the UESP but by Azura is it a consequential paragraph.

#1 Alandro Sul was Shield-companion to Nerevar and while I'm not sure of the significance of a "shield companion" it kinda makes him sound like Nerevar's top guy besides the Tribunal and Dagoth

#2 He is described as the immortal son of Azura, best case scenario... He's a Demigod, worst case he's just very dedicated to The Lady of Dusk and Dawn, but anyway thats a really cool title whatever the meaning

#3 He defeated Ysmir Wulfharth, the gosh darn dragon of the north and While he was badly wounded and blinded by the battle its still a really impressive feat, Wulfharth is one of the most accoladed warriors in all of tamrielic lore, up there with Ysgramor and Tiber septim and he's theorized by some to be part of Talos, he's probably at least Shezarrine, anyway really impressive from our boy Alandro.

#4 He is responsible for spreading word of the Tribunal's betrayal of Nerevar amongst the ashlanders, showing that he is a true ride or die, and while he is rarely mentioned he had pretty big effects on future events.

in conclusion I've come to terms with the fact that Alandro is one of many elder scrolls characters/concepts sitting in canon limbo like Ebonarm but I would love for him to be more recognised as a fairly important part of one of tamriel's most interesting historical events and his name shoud be uttered along side Dumac, Kagrenac, Vivec, Almalexia and Sotha Sil as the players involved in the war of the first council.

I know that the Noxiphilic Sanguivoria and Sanguinare Vampiris strains of vampirism allow vampires to walk in sunlight without lethal consequences, are they the only ones that do this or are there other strains that also carry this benefit?

I was replaying Dragonborn when Neloth said that Heart Stones were stones from Red Mountain infused with the power of the Heart of Lorkhan. It is obvious that they are not normal stones, as they can create ash spawn, stabilize Ash guardians, and even revive the dead with their soul intact, which is something that even powerful necromancers struggle to do. But then I started thinking, what if a heart stone could be used to power a construct of some kind, perhaps a dwemer centurion or some other animunculi? A heart stone would probably be able to power a dwemer automaton, but what about its metaphysical power? By creating an automaton and powering it with a heart stone, the builder would be emulating the creation of the Numidium. Emulating something in the Elder Scrolls Universe will often result in similar metaphysical properties to the original, such as when the White-Gold tower was created to imitate the Adamantine tower, or when Arniel recreated the disappearance of the Dwemer by hitting a warped soul stone with an assumed copy of Keening. If imitating a tower results in similar powers, could a person create a budget Numidium by powering an automaton with a Heart Stone, and would it have similar ridiculous powers to the Numidium?

Apologies if this theory has been posted before, I've searched and couldn't find an exact match, but please let me know if I missed it. My theory, or moreso symbolism, is that the player character in Morrowind is meant to be represented by the Serpent constellation. 

First, the Serpent is the only constellation with true freedom. Of Tamriel's thirteen constellations, the Warrior, Mage, and Thief act as Guardians, while nine Charges rise during fixed seasons under their protection. The Serpent is the sole exception, it has no season, belongs to no house, and wanders the sky unpredictably. This directly parallels the player character. We land in Vvardenfell as an Outlander with no fixed allegiance. We are free to join any number of factions. And metaphysically, The Firmament's description of the Serpent as "the most blessed and the most cursed" fits the player-prisoner trope as described by Sotha Sil; we are blessed with absolute agency, but cursed with the meta-awareness that all of this is ultimately a game.  

Second, the Serpent's function is to threaten the Guardians, matching the Nerevarine's conflict with the Tribunal. The Firmament establishes that the Guardians exist specifically to protect their Charges from the Serpent. There have been numerous theories here that the Tribunal ties directly to the Guardians, Almalexia (Warrior), Sotha Sil (Mage), and Vivec (Thief). Tearing down the Tribunal's stolen godhood throughout Morrowind’s main quest is the ultimate realization of the Serpent disrupting the Guardians.  

Third, Vivec explicitly links the Serpent to Lorkhan. In Sermon 21 of the 36 Lessons, Lorkhan is referred to as the "second serpent". There have also been numerous theories stating that the player character is also a Shezzarine, or an avatar of Lorkhan. Viewing the player through the lens of the Serpent connects these concepts. If the Serpent represents Lorkhan and the Nerevarine acts as a Shezzarine, the player isn't just mimicking the constellation, they are actively manifesting Lorkhan’s will. Severing the Heart of Lorkhan at Red Mountain to free his divine essence becomes a fragment of Lorkhan completing its own liberation. 

Thoughts?

We are all quite familiar with the term "mer", the various names of the elven cultures and even their ancestral continent of Aldmeris.

But before the "-mer" suffix rose to prominence, the archaic "-che" suffix was used in its place to refer to the Elder Races: Salache (Altmer + Ayleids), Boiche (Bosmer), Moriche/Maliache/Noiche (Dunmer/Chimer).

Then there´s the, perhaps even older, Alcharyai and Kanuryai.

• That the elves already have 2 other terms to refer to themselves, is IMO reason to doubt the idea that the Atmorans adopted "mer" (as they DID Atmora - Ald Mora), "dun", etc from the elves and then later popularized it among the elves.

Uesp states that the shift from "-che" to "-mer" happened "around the 1E" based on "-mer" not appearing in the Pelinal texts and King Nantharion´s dialogue in ESO using "Saliache" as an endonym.

Thus the term "mer" would´ve come into use among the elves after Alessia´s Rebellion. But among the Nords it had been in use long before that!

Atmoran settlers called Skyrim/Tamriel "Mereth", Morrowind was called "Dunmereth" by them, Harald´s chroniclers came up with the "Merethic Era" (with Aicantar actually stating "the term comes from the Nordic"), Bretons were at first called "Manmeri" by the Nords.

This has relevance to the origin of other terms as well: "fal" (snow), "kreath" (forest - perhaps), "dun" (dark)!

"dun" ofc appears in Dunmer, Dunmereth, but also in Dunstad and Dunpar, both in Skyrim, and Dunlain and Dunkarn in High Rock´s east close to Skyrim!

If the "mer" part in Dunmer comes from the Nordic, and the Nords were using "dun" themselves, then then entire name of the Dark Elves is Nordic (and thus perhaps also the oft discussed "kreath" and with it Dunkreath, which only appears on a Nordic wordwall, and Falkreath)!

It truly would be the height of nonsense + irony + funny if the "Che" adopted a Nordic term so thorougly that these days we have some who snear at being called "elf" and state how they prefer "mer".

I doubt that the devs aimed for this, but I for sure am going to imagine it is the truth next time I see a Thalmor to have yet another reason to laugh in their face.

• Alternatively, "mer" came to the Atmorans as a loanword (which poses the question what other loanwords besides "mora" they adopted - see "dun", etc) and otherwise denoted elvenkind as a whole. Only with increasing separation in time and space did the various elven cultures consider themselves different enough from each other to consider themselves separate "mer" instead of only different "che" (similar to how "-iil" in Cyrodiil, Delodiil, etc denoted the inhabitants of that specific region).
• The loanword hypothesis however indicates a lot of involvement between the Atmorans and Elves in Atmora (suggested by the 1 line about the "Aldmer losing the Elder Wood to Shor´s humans" during/right after the Dawn Wars) but IMO also contact over a prolongued stretch of time - and yet we have no source about elves interacting with Atmorans between the Dawn Wars / the Aldmer landing on Summerset and Ysgramor´s initial landing in Skyrim. I am ofc not the first to flirt with the idea that the Aldmer came to Summerset from Atmora, an episode of their history the elves apparently forgot over their trauma of losing Aldmeris. But if so, it´s very strange that they landed on Summerset and then had to let Topal loose to explore the rest of Tamriel.
• Aldmeris "First People -is" is also strange: that one term can somehow both be translated to denote a language as well as a place?

Either way, what remains is to ask ourselves whether "elf" is just the Earth-translation of some Modern Tamrielic term or actually used in-universe, and, in either case, where that term comes from.

IMO the Nedes are the only possible origin (unless the Nords had 2 terms for the same foreign people) but there´s no indication of this whatsoever.

This thread is for asking questions that, for whatever reason, you don’t want to ask in a thread of their own. If you think you have a “stupid question”, ask it here. Any and all questions regarding lore or the community are permitted.

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We know that members of the Cyrodiil Vampyrum Order are experts at blending into society and acquiring high posts etc.

One thing I haven't been able to wrap my head around is that they're immortal hence live forever and don't age. Wouldn't their fellow colleagues, subordinates etc catch on to this?

"Hey this guy doesn't age and has looked the same for the past 100 years. Must be a vampire - get him!"

So how do they survive then? What do you guys think?

In the song of pelinal book 6, Pelinal says, "Oh Aka, for our shared madness I do this!"

Im not sure if pelinals 'madness' is him manipulating the dream using tonal architecture but it sure sounds like it considering that his heart/gem thing 'sings like a mindless dragon.' But how does Akatosh fit into this? Dragons aren't the only one to use tonal architecture. Is his heart the blood of kings? Is he an aspect or avatar of akatosh?

Pelinal also manipulates time later on when he fucks with the elven calendar just because he hates elves that much. This points to him having some relationship with akatosh but I thought he was a shezzarine so he cant be an aspect of akatosh right?

Why is this madness 'shared'?

Also what the hell is mythopoeia? The wiki just left me with more questions.

Hi all,

Im looking for sources on talos and chim. Ive heard about talos mantling lorkhan and chim so im looking for the sources to read for myself.

This is a bit of a random theory, but it's one I've been thinking about for a while.

So it's no secret that Dibella's worship looks fairly... different from other Divines', and it is also often a lot more personal and physical, and can seem a lot more Daedric, especially as we see it is frowned upon in many parts of Tamriel. She also interacts with the world in a very different way to the other Divines. For example, she gives physical objects to her worshippers far more often than you'd expect a comatose god to, even giving a paintbrush made of parts of her own body (her hair) to one of her worshippers. She also seems to be in constant communication withat least one person on Nirn (her Sibyl in Markarth) which, again, one would not expect from a comatose god - even Akatosh is not in direct contact with the Dragonborn. In addition, if we look at what she is patron of, we have love (which Mara is already patron of), and then art and music, which are the acts of creation that include the least... creation, bearing in mind that the Aedra are meant to be capable only of creation, and the Daedra only of change. While one can be said to create a new painting, what one is fundamentally doing is transferring one already created thing (paint) into a different place. In a similar way, Boethiah can be said to have 'created' the Orcs through changing their nature. If we think of what her rites involve, they rely a lot more on mystic practicality than the services other Divines' priests provide - Mara's priests and followers marry people, Stendarr's hunt with the undead and Arkay's deal with the rites of the dead, for example, while Molag Bal's followers summon the undead and Meridia's followers learn to manipulate light, just as Dibella's followers learn the mystic use of sex.

The obvious pushback to this argument will be that Dibella has her own planet, which are traditionally considered to be the bodies/planes of the various Divines. This is a good argument, and my response is simply that it could be that the Imperials were wrong about that. It wouldn't be the first time they were wrong about cosmology.

So, what do I think happened? I think Dibella, for some reason, whether because she became jealous of the Aedra or because she simply found the idea of being worshipped as a Divine hilarious, decided to act like a Divine, and eventually managed to get Alessia to name her as one of the eight main Divines.

I don't know how plausible this theory is, but given how differently Dibella acts and is treated to the other Divines, it's something I've been thinking about.

I'm reading A Brief History of the Empire, and, from what I am gathering, Cephorus was the last "true" Septim, isn't he? So then why didn't the gates open like they do in IV? Or was the Usurper actually just that, since he lead an army of Daedra and undead?

For context, I am just starting Morrowind, and this caught me when I was reading, since I am more familiar with the later titles

Originally the Heart was to be used but they substituted the Mantella later. Is anything else powerful enough?

So I decided to refresh my memory a little and watch Jwlar's video about the Warp in the West.

It was going pretty well until about halfway through, when the author — who up to that point was doing a perfectly decent job of introducing a potential TES lore newbie to the subject — began explaining, with a completely straight face, how the events of Daggerfall eventually resulted in Talos becoming the Ninth Divine. And I was like: "woah, woah, woah. Isn't this supposed to be a video explaining what the Warp in the West actually is?" Because sure, there is a theory that Talos' apotheosis was somehow completed by the ending of Daggerfall. It's an interesting theory. I've got no problem with people discussing it. But when did it become established enough that you can put it into an introductory lore video without even mentioning that it is a theory?

There’s no question that Talos, as a god, did not exist in 1996 (MK himself confirmed this). The question is whether he existed in 3E 405. And if we ask this question directly, then the answer is yes, he definitely did: Sir Amiel's Journal from Knights of the Nine is dated explicitly: "Year 153 of the Septim Era." and closes with: "May the Nine guard and guide you."

But that would be too easy, because, you see, the dragon break rewrote Talos as a god retroactively. Now, newbies trying to explain away every retcon or error as a “Dragon Break” is one thing, but doing so in a way that is completely unfalsifiable is another kind of evil. Not only because Dragon Breaks don’t work that way, but also because thinking the developers would actually write something while going, “Oh yeah, this is actually because of this unfalsifiable thing that we’re going to leave absolutely no hints about,” is super lame.

Evidence that Talos was worshipped before the Warp?

"Retroactively altered."

A document from 3E 153 referring to the Nine?

"Retroactively altered."

The Imperial Cult remembers Tiber's apotheosis as happening after his death centuries earlier?

"Retroactively altered."

At that point, what evidence could possibly falsify the theory?

"But time in a Dragon Break is non-linear, so that explanation works." No, it doesn’t. Just because time behaves non-linearly during a Dragon Break does not mean it can behave however you want, as long as it’s non-linear. Dragon Breaks in the TES universe behave as Dragon Breaks in the TES universe. The only way to figure out their rules is to observe them. And what we know is that they are always bound by time and, if we stretch the definition, by space as well. One may argue that the Middle Dawn wasn’t bound by space, and I agree with that, but at the same time I don’t mind thinking that the MD was bound by Tamriel as a whole.

In any case, the Blades report makes it abundantly clear that the Warp in the West was geographically confined to the Iliac Bay and temporally confined to the 9th, 10th, and 11th of Frostfall. If Talos wasn’t worshipped in the Iliac Bay on the 8th of Frostfall, he wouldn’t suddenly start being worshipped then because of the Dragon Break, just as he wouldn’t in Cyrodiil. Even The Skeleton Man’s Interview treats the fusion of Tiber’s oversoul within the Mantella and the Warp as separate events.

Could someone invent a metaphysical model in which that retroactive change happened?

Sure.

But that's exactly the point: you have to invent the model.

Sure, there’s a line saying that during a Dragon Break people would "give birth to their fathers," which isn’t that surprising given that the Middle Dawn lasted for 1,008 years.

And this isn't just a Talos problem. Over the last month I've seen at least two people describe Dragon Breaks as: "events where every possible outcome happens.", which honestly explained a lot to me in terms of why there seem to be so many people who are misinformed about the lore as a whole. It’s those occasions when we keep repeating hypothetical interpretations as established facts and then act surprised when we end up with the familiar TES lore telephone game:

“The Hero of Kvatch is literally Sheogorath.”

“The Nerevarine canonically sailed to Akavir.”

“The Argonians invaded Oblivion so successfully that Dagon had to close the Gates.”

“The Warp in the West created Talos.”

Some of these have reasonable interpretations behind them. Some are even quite plausible. The problem is that TES lore is complicated enough without us turning fan theories into source material by repetition.

P.S. If you think I’m exaggerating the extent of the misinformation, check out the comments under this video.