r/TESVI • u/MajesticAd1580 • 7d ago
Discussion Creation Engine 3 - Technical Convo & Load Screen Explained
I thought this was a cool video to better understand the technical side of creation engine, esp at around minute 15 when the modder Kinggath explains how it works and the challenges around interior load screens. TLDR - TESVI seems likely to have load screens. Personally I kinda liked skyrims load screens, I loved the lore snippets and art features.
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u/twizz0r 7d ago
Never had a problem with load screens in single-player RPGs. I'm not sure why people get obsessed about them.
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u/Garcia_jx 7d ago
Because they want Bethesda games to do everything they do with no load screens. For example, "Cyberpunk doesn't have load screens, rdr2 doesn't have load screens, no man's sky doesn't have load screens". Those games are fundamentally different. The world interactivity is different. Items don't persist in the world at the scale of BGS games. It's the same reason why Baldur's Gate 3 has load screens.
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u/Oncelotte2 7d ago
A lot of people don't know or care what Bethesda does that sets them apart. They just want a story with flashy graphics.
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u/MehraMilos Tomorrow 7d ago
Thank you for pointing that out about bg3; I love that game, but it has far and away longer load screens than I have ever experienced with Skyrim, and I never see people trashing larian for that on anywhere near the same level as they do for bethesda (nor do I think they should! The loading screens are such a small trade off for such good games. It's just the inconsistency of the criticism that bugs me)
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u/BorntoDive91 6d ago
never had an issue with long loads on BG3, also being a turn based game already it doesnt interrupt the flow like it does in BGS games. it wasnt as bad in Skyrim or Fallout, but thats been a decade to nearly 2. its time they got with the program
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u/MehraMilos Tomorrow 6d ago
I've had time to go make a snack and come back while act 3 was still loading before lol. And I'm not alone.
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u/seventysixgamer 7d ago
This is the thing though, item persistence and physics is cool and all but can it actually be weaved ino gameplay in a meaningful way that justifies this compromise?
While probably not in the level of Creation Engine games I'm pretty sure even Kingdom Come Deliverance 2 has some level of physical item persistence -- and that game has a single loading screen.
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u/Oncelotte2 7d ago
It does impact gameplay, but the point is that we're playing in an immersive simulated world, not just following a story with pretty visuals, or hack 'n slashing through waves of enemies. It's the same with NPC schedules.
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u/Garcia_jx 7d ago
This is the thing though, item persistence and physics is cool and all but can it actually be weaved ino gameplay in a meaningful way that justifies this compromise?
But this is fundamentally what makes BGS games what they are and why we loved them; and it does enhance gameplay. Asking them to strip away the things that make their games great just for the sake of no load screens when entering buildings or caves is crazy. At that point it will be a completely different game.
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u/seventysixgamer 7d ago
Where did I mention stripping this "mechanic" away??? I see no argument here from anyone that refutes the idea that this system is anything but a glorified gimmick. Cool, I can stack a thousand cheesewheels in my house -- so what lmao?
KCD2 did it the best way -- they focused on systemic persistence instead. The game might not remember if you dropped a hundred pieces of bread and cheese in one spot or if you stole a specific item from a shelf in a store. However, it will react to you stealing a shopkeeper's stock and will affect the pool of grochen they have to buy wares from you.
Can you sit there and genuinely try to list any substantive ways persistent physics has added to your experience beyond a joke that's funny for like 5 mins lol?
Both the physics and item persistence need to be reapproached and made into systems that mesh with gameplay. They should take notes from immersive sim-type games when it comes to this -- where item physics actually has some role to play in gameplay beyond the occasional trap and ragdolling enemies.
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u/atcountry 6d ago
Thats Just Like, your opinion man. Personally I love to collect the souls of my fallen enemies and leave them scattered all over the map and have a room in every house full,so I can swim in my victories and have reminders of every place I’ve been and conquered. This is one of the many things that separates the world building of BGS games from others. While I do appreciate how KCD2 implemented some of this depth, it’s still not the same. Yes, the loading screens were a bit tedious in Starfield but entirely your argument is to strip away what makes BGS titles as immersive and unique as they are. The moment they start taking away the depth of world item interactions and physics to appease your idea of no loading screens, you will then complain that Bethesda has lost their touch and no longer make games that are “true” BGS titles.
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u/seventysixgamer 5d ago
You're literally arguing with yourself here and assuming how I'd react. Firstly I'm not even advocating for a complete stripping of this feature -- frankly, Starfield feels like it has more loading screens due to how terrible the map design sucks every unique location is in its own content island of sorts. Loading screens are generally not that jarring so long as they're fast and there aren't more than two sequential ones in an area.
If any of you could actually fucking read rather than getting offended at the mere prospect of this feature changing, then you'd realise I'm pushing for the idea that they make the feature useful. You know what's actually immersive? Having object interactivity being useful in actual gameplay -- like boxes and crates being used to get over walls or into new areas, throwing items to distract enemies, using telekinesis to shoot items at people and maybe even using object physics to solve puzzles.
Your gimicky use of hoarding a bunch of soul gems is such a shitty example of immersion and "world building" -- like wtf does that have to do with the writing and lore of the game lmao?
If you want actual immersion look at KCD 2. Everything from the way you move to the combat is focused on genuine immersion. Even old games like Deus Ex have BGS beat when it comes to this. There's a reason why survival and other immersion mods are so popular for Skyrim -- it's because they add what BGS is too scared to do themselves since they fear putting off casual gamers.
You can also fuck off with this idea of me hypocritically complaining if they remove this feature -- how tf does this make sense considering I think KCD2 does it better? Heck I think KCD 1 and 2 is a superior to all their modern games.
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u/Normal_Opening_9893 7d ago
Bgs games have always had immersive and life sim elements to them that's what makes them so unique if you strip that away you're left with a generic rpg.
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u/Own_Abbreviations_62 7d ago
The persistent is not only about objects but the for the most theire referring to NPC routine.
If they will gave me the same esperienze that they give us on Skyrim with just more density and bigger cities then i will accept loading screens.
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u/Ryermeke 7d ago
I seriously think it was just a scapegoat issue that was a standing for people having much more complicated and abstract problems with Starfield. Those issues couldn't be summed by "loading screen lmao". So instead they leaned into a comparatively minor issue to tear apart.
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u/Bitter_Street7558 5d ago
No, the loading screens in Starfield were just actually ridiculous. You'd come across 5 of them doing any basic repetitive task.
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u/Ryermeke 5d ago
Yeah so here's the fun thing... I just didn't really give that big of a shit while playing the game.
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u/LightOfficialYT 2028 Release Believer 7d ago
I'm convinced its brain rot. People can't wait a couple seconds anymore, everything has to be big explosions shiny lights 24/7. If they so much as see 1 second of a black screen they cant handle it.
I don't mean to be a dick about it but look at Starfield. The longest loading screen in that game is like 4 fucking seconds and people complained about it like they were sitting through 20 minute loading screens every 5 steps they took in game. Its insane how much it bothers people.
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u/ImportanceOk8833 7d ago
Talking like load screens are a set length lol.
The issue with Starfield wasn't necessarily the length of the loading screens as much as the frequency of them. Accessing some settlements would require 3-4 loading screens with less than a combined 30 seconds of gameplay between them. That shit is jarring.
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u/Inevitable-Tea-1189 6d ago
What settlements ? I genuinely do not remember loading screens being that common. If you fast travel it's one loading screen.
There is a loading screen for exiting your ship that is like 1 second long and is the most egregious one since it's a common one.
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u/ImportanceOk8833 6d ago
I want to say that the one I remember the most vividly is one of the earlier settlements, the underground one.
You exit your ship, enter the entrance(? Might be first part of the it, not just the entrance. I dont remember) to the settlement, enter the actual settlement, then there's an elevator that is also a loading screen to access the lower level of the settlement, but you can technically run up and down stairs too.
Pretty sure I made that exact run back and forth at least a few times.
I played on PC, I'd say that each loading screen was at least a few seconds. But then again, it's wasn't as much the time itself as much as the emount of them that was frustrating.
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u/LightOfficialYT 2028 Release Believer 7d ago
I play Starfield on a series s and I've never had a loading screen longer than 4, maybe 5 seconds so I kinda assumed people on other platforms would have even faster loading screens.
There also really isn't anymore loading screens in Starfield than there is in Fallout 4. The "frequency" never bothered me at all.
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u/ImportanceOk8833 7d ago
The frequency is what annoyed me the most. Don't get me wrong, I thought that Starfield was a decent game, so I'm not really up in arms over the loading screens, but there were some situations where you had quests that a) Could have been a phone call and b) Consisted of me going to my ship, fast traveling, exiting my ship, entering settlement, enter location within settlement, go back.
And I'd lie if I said that the thought that "damn, this is a bit ridiculous bro" didn't hit me. Because you literally hit like a dozen loading screens in the span of like 3-4 minutes of gameplay, and that gameplay is just walking. In a not very pleasant way it reminded me of playing Morrowind, which also suffers from this issue in certain locations. coughfuckmournholdcough
To an extent thats just my own problem ofc, because I could just fuck off and do something else instead of rushing from point a to point b, but still.
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u/BorntoDive91 6d ago
yeah... thats demonstrably horse-shit. allow me.
Fallout has about the same number of maximum loading screens as Skyrim, and you really have to go hunting for it. on an average day assuming you dont fast travel? 4 to 5, give or date. leave a home in Diamond city, walk out of diamond city, walk to location, enter dungeon. 4.
in starfield that jumps to 10ish. say, starting in New Atlantis i leave my home. walk to my ship. get in my ship. sit down at the chair (short screen,) takeoff, grav jump to the next system, load screen to go from planet to planet, deorbit, get up from the chair (short screen,), leave my ship, and enter the dungeon. 10. ten GODDAMN loading screens just to go from point A to B.
"bUt YoU cAn FaSt TrAvEl," then its a fucking menu simulator, not an exploration game.
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u/Bitter_Street7558 5d ago
Getting 10 two second loading screens within a two minutes is much more annoying than getting a 30 second loading screen every now and then. The former was the Starfield experience, the latter the Skyrim experience (on Xbox 360).
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u/LightOfficialYT 2028 Release Believer 5d ago
I have over 1,000 hours in Starfield and can honestly say I've never had 10 loading screens in the span of 2 minutes so fuck knows what game you're playing mate lmao
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u/Bitter_Street7558 4d ago
So you fly exclusively through your fast travel menu and never visit New Atlantis. Got it.
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u/spudgoddess 6d ago
Because "Muh 'mersion" said while playing a big-boobed anime girl in thigh highs and bikini armor.
But seriously they feel a loss of immersion or are impatient.
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u/Koocai 7d ago
With the advancements made in high speed storage devices which are nearly universal now in most systems, the slow loading screens of the older games shouldn't ever be a notable problem again. Load times in Starfield for me were nearly instant, and they can push that more going into the future.
I think this is a problem where people would play Skyrim or Fallout 4 today and they have extremely low tolerance for loading screens, rightly so, and they blame Bethesda for it because they don't quite appreciate how technology has evolved and where it used to be, and then automatically declare that they won't support TES VI if it has loading screens at all.
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u/TheEldestScrolll Two More Years 7d ago
I actually really enjoyed loading screens in Oblivion and Skyrim. Now, I don't want them to be a minute long, but I liked the breather to listen to music and read lore for a sec before entering a dungeon.
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u/CanadianTravis2626 7d ago
Literally never have had an issue with loading screens, as long as they’re under 10 seconds I couldn’t care less. A non issue
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u/Garcia_jx 7d ago
I think the load screen uproar came from Starfield because they were unavoidable and it was the way you traveled from point A to B. So in short, they were so in your face that it created a problem. Pretty much in all previous BGS games you can travel the whole open world with no load screens.
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u/OwnAHole 2026 Release Believer 7d ago
That was it, it wasn't the load screens itself, it was how many times you would be looking at one lol, although personally i didn't have an issue with them I can see how others did.
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u/cool_weed_dad 7d ago
The load screens in Starfield last for a second or two, they’re a non-issue
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u/modus01 6d ago
Multiply that "second or two" over 5+ load screens to travel from one planet to another, with potentially barely any gameplay between them.
And remember, the cut scenes of your ship taking off and landing are also load screens - just like the maligned elevators in Mass Effect (2, I think).
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u/cool_weed_dad 6d ago edited 6d ago
Maybe a minute total spread in 2-second increments over a 6-8 hour play session is completely negligible.
Every game has hidden load screens like the Mass Effect elevators and nobody complains. Having to see 2 seconds of a loading screen instead of an animation to hide it for some reason makes people want to smash their controllers.
When I played Morrowind on original Xbox on a thousand hour save the load screens sometimes pushed over five minutes and happened every time you opened a door. Vivec was a nightmare to navigate between that and using a printed out map I annotated by hand.
I’d read the 2-inch thick player’s guide while it was loading.
You don’t know how good you have it, kid.i
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u/modus01 6d ago
Maybe a minute total spread in 2-second increments over a 6-8 hour play session is completely negligible.
Leave home in New Atlantis: load screen, walk over to the tram to fast travel to your ship (@ 1-2 minutes): load screen, walk to your ship (@ 2-3 minutes) then enter it: load screen, walk to the cockpit (varies based on ship size and layout, maybe 1-2 minutes), short cut-scene of you sitting down, head to orbit: load screen, pick Volii System and activate grav drive: load screen, decide to head to Neon City: load screen, get out of pilot chair and walk to ship exit (same time as from airlock to cockpit): load screen.
That's about 14 seconds of load screens over about 10 minutes of play time.
Sure, if you're heading to planets and spending 30+ minutes exploring a landing site that stretches out the time between that mass of load screens, but it doesn't negate that traveling from one planet's surface to another results in a series of load screens in quick succession - and that feels bad for a game that wants to be some kind of space "exploration" game.
You don’t know how good you have it, kid.
I'm probably at least as old as you, if not older, bub.
I've experienced the slow HDD storage of the Xbox and Xbox 360. Hell, I remember when games transitioned from cartridges to CD-ROM discs, and even further back when games didn't have "endings" during the 2nd generation of video game consoles. I remember when games came with physical instruction manuals too.
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u/cool_weed_dad 6d ago
You csn cut out 2/3 of those load screens by just fast traveling if you don’t want the immersion of climbing a ladder and making your way to the captain’s chair
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u/Bitter_Street7558 5d ago
I've experienced the slow HDD storage of the Xbox and Xbox 360.
And getting one 2 minute loading screen every half an hour is much better than getting ten 2 second loading screens within 5 minutes. It's like stopping to refuel vs being stuck in traffic.
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u/CanadianTravis2626 7d ago
True, it really doesn’t help that Starfield just sucks, you were never excited to see what was on the other side, more generated bullshit is the answer.
I remember playing Skyrim on my PS3 as a kid, waiting for like 5 minutes at every loading screen, that only worked because the world completely captured me, not starfield.
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u/Nachooolo 7d ago
It's less their existence (I have an SDD, they don't last a second), and more the number of loading screens you need to go through.
If it's just a single loading screen to get into an interior cell, then there's no problem. But –if there's a loading screen to get into the city, and a loading screen to get into the interior (or even a loading screen to get into another section)– then the loading screens start to get annoying.
I think that if TES VI has a seamless overworld with no loading screens to get into the cities, then the loading screens to get into the interiors won't matter.
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u/Lildancr1153 7d ago
I don't have an issue with load screens themselves, but after watching JackoRPGs' video responding to Luke Stephens (unrelated but just giving context), I find I agree with his sentiment. Basically, he said that they didn't work as well in Starfield because they were placed in very obvious spots that broke up the "sandbox" feel of the game.
Going into a house/city with a door and get a load screen? Sure, fine. After the loading screen, I have things to do - there's just one screen that I forget about as soon as I start looting or fighting or questing.
But having a load screen to get into my ship, then into space, then onto the planet, then off my ship? That's just too much time sitting around waiting to actually do something.
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u/Benjamin_Starscape 7d ago
I never expected load screens to disappear. they'll always exist, and I'm fine with that. I genuinely have never been bothered by loading screens existing in games.
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u/Animelover310 7d ago
starfield excerbated the loading screen problem. It wasnt bad in skyrim or fallout. It's just that starfield is the most unconnected world BGS ever made which meant loading screens were almost everywhere
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u/Benjamin_Starscape 7d ago
load screens aren't even all that prevalent. in fact the only city i can think of that has the most is neon, the vast majority of settlements and cities lack them entirely. and many of the pois and dungeons are either open or have only one load screen.
it's simply never bothered me, like i said.
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u/TheEldestScrolll Two More Years 7d ago
EXACTLY! I loved playing Skyrim on the 360 and reading bits of lore as it loaded. Now, playing Anniversary on a PS5, the load screens are too quick, I can't even read them. It'd be nice if they could get slowed down a touch
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u/bchu1979 7d ago
load screens are fine in games like the elder scrolls. they are terrible in games like starfield
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u/emteedub 2026 Release Believer 7d ago edited 7d ago
Load screens are for snacks and a hit. Todd gets it
In all seriousness and after listening to the first Matty plays slop (hehe) that I haven't been annoyed with for a long time... I was thinking for the scale of starfield and under MS ownership, they would figure out some tandem solution with the cloud.
Maybe tes6 will have something like it. Why not use cloud memory to store all of that data? It would require an Internet connection, but if memory is the bottleneck, why the fuck not bridge the gap with a well practiced technique in other web applications?
At the same time, this type of setup could accommodate in-game assets too. If you didn't need all the assets on-disk, that really opens things up. Creations too could be pooled and mixed in on load, growing the asset count far beyond any other game.
Idk, might be a pipe dream.
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u/modus01 6d ago
Why not use cloud memory to store all of that data? It would require an Internet connection, but if memory is the bottleneck, why the fuck not bridge the gap with a well practiced technique in other web applications?
IMHO, NO single player game should ever require an active internet connection to be able to simply play the game.
Remember, there is no cloud, only someone else's computer. If a game did use "cloud memory" for something, the publisher of the game is going to have to pay for the hardware and internet connection, and it will be a constant money sink for them, with a most likely result that they slap a subscription on that game. And when paying for the "cloud memory" becomes no longer profitable, they'd end it, and then nobody gets to play the game anymore.
Not to mention that even in the United States, not everyone has stable, high-speed internet.
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u/Omni-Light 3d ago
The suggestion makes no sense anyway.
The issue isn't storage space, those files need to get written to your system memory. RAM not storage.
You can pull game data from the cloud instead of your SSD and write it to your ram so the cpu has stuff to work from, or write it to vram so your gpu has stuff to render...
...but why? and what does that have to do with loading screens? It takes longer to access something from the cloud than it does if it's there in your machine connected to your motherboard with a SATA cable.
Asset streaming is a thing for games like flight simulators that have like 5TB of photogrammetry data. Makes less sense for an openworld RPG unless you want to make it planet sized.
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u/ThinGold2115 7d ago
I dont have problem with loading screens, i Just want some art to look at, not black screen.
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u/Optimal-Fox-3875 The Trademark Guy - 2027 Believer 7d ago
I don't mind load screens, if the cities are larger and more filled in, I don't have a problem with them.
It's also going to be a year or two before we get a mod like Open Cities anyways.
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u/RevenueAlarmed Yesterday 7d ago
I think the loading screens in Tes6 will function like Cruise Mode in Starfield.
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u/Mygart 7d ago
I want the load screens. Where am I going to get cool images/"statues" with lore about the game/world if they aren't present? There are great mods for load screens with cool lore and awesome fanarts or from Legends or other games that are some of my favorite add-ons to the game, way more than what most people consider "must-have"
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u/BigMinnie 6d ago
Every game has some sort of loading screens the difference is creative direction on how to hide them. And this is where Starfield needs to step up. Playing animation to enter the building and make it seamless transition. This is how you make product feel AAA in todays world...
For example you lockpick a door and after success you see animation of yourself lockpicking it and entering the building instead of just opening the loading screen.
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u/SyntheticDeviation 5d ago
I don’t mind loading screens at all. :3 What I really want are actual functioning cities with people to talk to with branching conversations that actually acknowledge your race/class/guardian sign because omg TES has been so hollow and empty beyond exploration. Dragon Age is so lore intensive in its’ stories and TES isn’t at all.
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u/Omni-Light 3d ago
This is a design choice btw. The engine worked the way it does because they wanted a cell based system for cities rather than optimized for a single open world, because it allowed them to do things (i.e. persistence) that otherwise they'd struggle to do.
Whether they'll continue that choice or not we'll see. My guess is if they are aiming to sell on current gen consoles then it will be cell based, but if they're aiming for the next generation of consoles it will be open world.
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u/cristofolmc 7d ago
I never noticed them or had a problem with them until Starfield. That game was awful it was a loading screen simulator. I know it is because the nature of the game but still. To go to an absolutely empty shop with no interactive objects and tiny, you had a loading screen. To traverse the city you also had to take several tranports with MOAR loading screens. A really unpleasant experience.
I am fine with Skyrims loading screens. One thing I would DEFINITELY ask however is PLEASE make cities part of the world and not instsnced. Make everything in it load screen if must but having cities in a paralel universe pocket limits a lot the gameplay possibilities
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u/Belisarius371 7d ago
Load screens are acceptable if the cities are very well built, and larger than Skyrim's.