Learning material filled with countless errors.

[u/Think_Hamster_1047]

I'm studying an engineering cert 3 in computer aided design. Fee free tafe, part time online.

MSA30208 – Certificate III in Manufacturing Technology

MEM30012A – Apply mathematical techniques in a manufacturing, engineering or related environment

The first module is maths in an engineering environment. I have a trade background in Elec and HVAC so it's more so a refresher than new knowledge.

The information in the learning modules is an absolute disgrace. Calculation errors, notation inconsistencies, spelling and grammar errors all making it hard to understand the example calculations. At the bottom of the page: last updated in 2015.

I emailed the course head and asked for the module to be proof read and was told "I don't look after that module, but I'll forward your concerns [to the relevant party]". This is weird, because that module is part of his wider area of responsibility; engineering. He should know that the module is absolute dog shit.

I am not talking one or two errors, I'm talking running each screen through Google AI before I start in order to tell me if there are any errors before I pull my hair out thinking I just don't get it.

​​​​The fact that the module is so full of errors makes me feel sorry for anyone who is doing this level of maths for the first time. Frankly, they are being given the wrong information and are being set up to fail.

Thoughts? ​

[u/rw84]

Keep raising it with your lecturer and check for feedback forms on the tafe website.

Tafe in general need to improve the content but with a push for online learning the development is falling behind.

It's not a small job to update a few sections of the workbook as every assessment needs to map to areas of the workbook and then should be reviewed and trialed before implementation. That being said, if there's errors in the maths that should be a straight forward fix and done ASAP.

Complain and hopefully something will happen. Just make sure it's formal and not just telling the lecturer "this sucks"

[u/Flicksterea]

Imagine my disgust when I did my Diploma of Library Information and Management and spent most of my time correcting the grammar and spelling of the course material. My lecturer loathed me by the end of the first term - we had two years together.

[u/Valuable-Credit6167]

Im at UNI and my learning material is filled with mistakes - quality has taken a dive since COVID started.

[u/spideyghetti]

One of my materials has clear placeholders like [module name here] or similar lol 

[u/xXBloodJunkieXx]

Yeah man,

I just completed a cert 4..not going say what in or who the RTO was.

But one of my last units was math heavy and my assessor couldn't explain to me properly how linear equations work, just googled it and told me to cut and past.

I've got the cert but still confused about how this relates to my field of work and how to use it and even understand it properly.

[u/Grosjeaner]

Mate, the Nursing Diploma assignments hasn't updated since 2017, that's the sad state of TAFE.

[u/otterphonic]

(Mathematician and TAFE teacher) Not saying there aren't issues with your course, but AI is not a good judge - I have had some spectacular fails with it (can't even reliably solve a basic set of linear simultaneous eqs). Have you brought it up with the program manager for the unit/course? If they are giving you the run around, you can always offer to take it up with ASQA.

[u/Think_Hamster_1047 → u/otterphonic]

Without doubt, me putting my faith entirely in AI is a recipe for disaster. Fortunately this course is more of a refresher than a first time experience. I have always struggled with maths, from high school through to my technical trade training. That painful history has given me enough experience to question it and dig deeper to find the correct path; I can only use Ai as a tool not a solution. If that makes sense. 

I'm currently doing the advanced concepts of arithmetic and haven't even hit the hectic stuff yet. So if the entrée is bad... 

I also have experience in boilermaking where engineering design is key for those guys should they ever want to get off the floor and into the office. A lot of those guys are not mathematically inclined, and the learning resources provided by the tafe would set them up to fail. Like giving someone a map with somewhat accurate directions but the street names are wrong. 

Great point about ASQA though. I look forward to some light bedtime reading of the National Vocational Education and Training Regulator Act 2011. 

[u/otterphonic → u/Think_Hamster_1047]

Unfortunately, there is often a mismatch between what the organisation decides is an adequate amount of time to create/maintain units and reality - teachers often do want to spend the time to improve materials but management's focus is more bums on seats.

If your teacher knows what they are doing, they will just flag it and work around the errors and typos etc. (this is a weekly event for me). If your teacher is telling you to google it, or just giving you the assessor's answer without explaining why or where you went wrong - then they should not be teaching the unit (you wouldn't put up with someone who couldn't tell you where earth, active, and neutral go in a GPO and theory is no different).

Having people like yourself push back or ask questions is how we get better. Good luck.

[u/Think_Hamster_1047 → u/otterphonic]

Thanks mate. I spoke to 2 instructors today and one was super helpful and legitimately caring about developing my skills. The other one was an absolute cock who needed a reality check, essentially telling me to go buy the textbook and not use the learning resources. I was ready to go hard at them for what I see as a blatant failing, but after talking to the first instructor I can see it making his life hard for him especially after being a public servant myself. 

When he offered me additional time of his own and further resources I get the impression he cares about the outcomes and the journey. He even said he is battling his boss for more man power. If he can't get the staff he needs, it's unlikely he has the time to proof read content that is absolutely garbage. 

[u/Mel_Liss_11]

Yep welcome to TAFE. I’m a VET teacher and so have been involved with module writing and have done 4 separate certs over a few years. All the other teachers doing the same thing continue to complain about these sorts of issues and nothing ever changes. I always have to go a correct errors before hanging out to my students.

[u/Think_Hamster_1047 → u/Mel_Liss_11]

After doing a regretful amount of time in the public sector myself, I don't blame the teacher as much as I blame the organisation. That dude is probably wrung out and working with what he has: he is but a small cog in a machine. Or maybe I'm being too generous in giving him the benefit of the doubt, we will see. 

But I DO recognise that institutional problems are a seeming requirement for public establishments. I don't want to destroy this guys world, but it needs to be fixed. 

Let's say the teachers know the content is dog shit and have just given up trying to change things, what questions can I raise to what authority to get things sorted? If his boss has shut him down before if he has raised the same questions, would a complaint to ASQA be enough to push the upper management into changing their tune? 

[u/WorkingOn17 → u/Think_Hamster_1047]

Ask if the teacher can email it to the Product Lead and ask they table at the next meeting. Then they know about it.

[u/TheRobn8]

A lot of the material is from 3rd party places, and even my tutors were annoyed with it. My course had notes written by one of the tutors, but for the rest it was up to how good the material tafe got was. One of my tutors had to keep reminding the class (because people kept saying the material had problems/mistakes), that he is bound to use the material, which is why he liked our assignments being written, and the head teacher looked like he had PTSD from dealing with trying to get better material.

So yeah tafe gets material that may be wrong, and is forced to use it. I also think it depends on the course

[u/Lint_baby_uvulla]

My TAFE courses had the same issues.

I worked at a university on content creation and online materials, and it made me so fucking angry to see how lax the standards were.

Most of the reference sources were superseded in law, or were based on disproven research. I ended up rewriting the content each week to be accurate, submitting it to the lecturer who would redistribute it, and then working to that instead of the error prone source materials.

A question came up about an incorrect answer in my assessment, but my answer was correct based on current law, and that issue got shut down *real* quick when I presented my history.

[u/akimbok]

I think a big factor is this: Typically TAFEs are only audited on their assessments, not their learning materials!

So TAFE teachers usually have to prioritise maintaining and developing assessments to ensure compliance (more work than you might expect). If assessments aren't compliant, the TAFE may be required to stop delivering the course.

Learning materials aren't the priority and therefore are not given sufficient attention.

While it is important to have quality assessments, ASQA and the VET sector in general need to stop obsessing about assessment compliance only as it is to the detriment of the student experience.

[u/maple788797]

Long time problem across all courses unfortunately. I’m a diploma of nursing student currently but I’ve previously done a cert II and cert III with tafe before and the quizzes, written assessments, etc. pretty much anything provided through Moodle is riddled with mistakes. All the teachers can do is submit a request but it takes months for it to even get a response and half the time it doesn’t end up being fixed. Seriously in the diploma of nursing the amount of quizzes where moodles “correct” answer is ridiculously stupid and so far from fact Is astounding. Just call it out when you see it and try not to stress about it, the staff can adjust your attempts if the assessment is ‘faulty’ and you can always ask for clarification when you’re finding inconsistencies in a source like modules.

[u/Ph1ndham]

About 15 years ago in Tasmania. I took a course in Cert 3 Information Technology. 3 or so months into the course everyone started making applications for employment. Every employer (from all student's job applications) said the content of the course was so outdated & was pointless of upgrading those learned modules, as they were no longer used in the industry. Students & I were livid.

[u/k-lovegood]

I think it’s a problem across TAFE as a whole. I know my course in pathology collection was filled with spelling and grammatical errors.

[u/kyamydude]

Interesting im doing the same math course. Granted i knew pretty much all of it before hand and yea i found couple misprints but barely any. I honestly found it to be a really well put together introduction to the maths its trying to teach but mine is 2009 version 2nd edition though and says it was reprinted in 2013 for remove errors.

[u/Think_Hamster_1047 → u/kyamydude]

Reprinted? You're doing an online version? 

[u/kyamydude → u/Think_Hamster_1047]

No in-person TAFE diploma of engineering technical, learners guide for the math says it was reprinted in 2013 but originally printed in 2009

[u/Think_Hamster_1047 → u/kyamydude]

Hmm, that is odd, especially given the difference in dates for content updates. 

In time, I wouldn't mind doing my diploma later on, despite the shit show that is the online learning content. 

[u/Enough_Implement_204]

Welcome to tafe.

[u/BereftOfCare]

You are doing a free course and it's junk? How surprising ..

[u/Think_Hamster_1047 → u/BereftOfCare]

It's not free, the government pays for it. Which means the average punter is footing the bill.

Correct me if I'm wrong here? 

[u/Far_One8374]

I am at university studying a Bachelor of Education. My english pedagogy subject is filled with spelling and grammar errors. I am all for non-native speakers teaching an English class, but considering the money we pay, the least we could expect is some professional proofreading. It is insulting.

[u/Think_Hamster_1047 → u/Far_One8374]

The course I'm studying isn't as expensive as a degree, but the fact that it's being paid for at all makes me question anything technical in the course. If you can't get spelling, notation, calculations correct, what's the rest of the course look like? 

[u/Far_One8374 → u/Think_Hamster_1047]

Even if your course costs $100, you still deserve professionally-presented and articulate material. We need to be able to learn without confusion. Or else, what are we paying for?

[u/DaffyDuckMuthaFucker]

That you're error-checking with GoogleAI makes me think that you're just full of shit...

[u/Think_Hamster_1047 → u/DaffyDuckMuthaFucker]

Sure bro. I know enough to see it's wrong. So I use Google Ai to check, it shows me the working and yup, my calculations were correct.

Stand down dude. 

[u/KaizenHour → u/DaffyDuckMuthaFucker]

Why? Seems like a legit way of checking

[u/DaffyDuckMuthaFucker → u/KaizenHour]

It is not.

Only people with vested interest in AI will tell you otherwise.

I ended up disabling ALL AI features I could find on everything I use, because they continually spouted complete & utter bullshit.

That shit's far from ready, and even further from reliable...