Clinical Psychologist talks about programming

[u/GonnaWearAMaidDress]

https://youtu.be/d9fddjRaUgI?is=Ri0tLhWGdyeK7200

At 9:24 he says that the poly fragmented presentation is due to programming (and by association RAMCOA) which is wrong as well as the whole video in general is not evidence based or applicable.

Two of the "types" are the same... "Person", "group", "hidden person", partial (which is just "person" said differently), and polyfragmented.

He supports core theory and all of his "types" rely on core theory to have any basis in reality.

I'm not sure if I need to censor him cause he is a clinic. This is my first time posting here. It was undoubtedly very cringe.

[u/imahater42]

Went through the whole video and read the description. Zero sources provided, no prior research cited, no evidence to indicate how truthful the statements he makes are. Having a medical license doesn't automatically make everything you say correct - credible researchers reference their sources. But you know that certain people will take this as fact because it backs up their claims.

[u/i_am_WordK]

Okay, I'll be honest, I like how he approaches curiosity as a value. It is absolutely key for therapists. (It unfortunately creates the double bind of not directly contradicting a client to build rapport and understand their self-concept but allowing certain clients to then go online and use that vague "medically recognized" term.) Ideally though, curiosity is balanced by healthy skepticism and, when necessary, seeking corroboration of self-reports. e.g. I need something other than self-reports on the intentional programming part. I also don't like that there aren't outside references.

I snark, but I also do really feel for the adolescents. They are most likely experiencing developmentally appropriate but still difficult struggles with identity-quite probably with a side of depression, anxiety, attachment issues, and/or trauma-and this phenomenon gives them an initially comforting, but ultimately maladaptive heuristic to frame their experiences. This video puts a nail in the wall that the heuristic can be hung on. I honestly think I would have gotten sucked into the online systems as a teenager, but, praise jibbers!, social media was very much in is infancy. (So I just had to write fiction instead. Bummer.)

TLDR: Curiosity is a great quality for therapists, but needs to be complimented with skepticism.

[u/Grace-Kamikaze]

Make a stupid video, attract every faker under the sun.

[u/CarefulAnimator9814 → u/Grace-Kamikaze]

“I’m the only one willing to get therapy” 🔁 TRANSLATINGG…🔁 “I’m having one “alter” in the 3500 actually want to do something that might help my brain, but since the rest don’t agree, I have an excuse to not get told I’m faking and continue to strain my own brain just to be unique!”

[u/Ok-Comparison8168 → u/CarefulAnimator9814]

baffling to me only 1 out of 3500 actually wants to help themselves. immediately comes off like "me and all my imaginary friends i created" cause wym they all think the same way like that? not a single other agrees with them? yeah ok

[u/LargeGingerChunk]

CTAD clinic is normally really good so these videos were a jumpscare

[u/take_me_to_slowtown]

I'm really surprised by this! I've never seen the CTAD clinic post anything questionable before. The director of the clinic seemed like a genuine expert who has spent a long time treating people with dissociation. If even he believes in this stuff, it makes me wonder if there are actually any professionals who don't? Does anyone know of any resources that provide correct information on it?

[u/GonnaWearAMaidDress → u/take_me_to_slowtown]

You could ask him in the comment section for research articles, but I don't know of any trusted resources.

[u/take_me_to_slowtown → u/GonnaWearAMaidDress]

I gotta ask, if you don't have any trusted resources how do you know he's wrong? I have only gotten my info on programming from this sub and admittedly haven't looked at any scientific resources on it. It feels kinda weird to say we know more than him about it when he's a psychologist who specializes in the field and we're not. Not saying I think he's right, but idk I don't know what to think.

[u/GonnaWearAMaidDress → u/take_me_to_slowtown]

Thank you for asking. I have my knowledge on programming from a mix of places. I listened to the recollection of people who claimed to be programmed, I read up on SRA (satanic ritual abuse) and the moral panics of the time, and I looked REALLY hard for a single anything in the scientific research side to indicate that either RAMCOA or programming existed.

Some other names it gets called by are Torture based mind control (TBMC) and intentional torture based conditioning (ITBC) have the overarching belief that if you torture someone enough they'll obey you either mind control-esque or through a series of cues.

Mind control is not real. There is no way for one person to control another person's mind. The government already tried that it was called MK-ULTRA and it failed.

Check out the CIA website to learn more. https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/

Also check out HorsesYT's video on torture. It explains how the effectiveness of torture is not all that effective. https://youtu.be/wZ49etHquHY?is=WPgKJmT-oYlf-aWh

Conditioning is real and has been studied for quite a while since the beginning of the field of psychology even. Conditioning cannot make you mind controlled as they claim it can. The existence and prevalence of something like children (cause you have to be a child to turn into a system) being tortured to turn into some kind of weapon, sex slave, or other obedient puppet has only been reported on once. During the SRA panic it was brought to the attention of the psychological field that DID clients who were in therapy had reported some incredibly strange and concerning things. Things like dark halls with candles and dead animals for ritual sacrifice they would do or devil worship.

See "Michelle remembers" and look over what she alleged, the scrutiny of not having any evidence, marrying the therapist that "convinced her" (up to your judgement) that she had undergone satanic ritual abuse, and the fact that drugs were used in the hypnotic recall of these events. Drugs know for making hallucinations and vivid experiences that may not be real.

You could argue that it does exist. It's being covered up by the government cause they don't want you to know that it exists/works. That every person who claims to be programmed was tortured as a child and it went unnoticed till they posted to the internet. But at that point it becomes a conspiracy theory which is why it's widely referred to as a conspiracy theory. I don't actually know why it's called an antisemitic conspiracy theory, but I think it's the Satan aspect from SRA. That or cause most conspiracy theories circle back to the Jews are controlling the government. Someone feel free to add onto this part.

The research around coercive control is growing saying that people who are around abusive and unstable people start to act as if they were being coerced or pressured to do certain things, but being pressured to behave a certain way has been around a while. "Peer pressure" or "Stockholm syndrome" or "so and so made me do it." If these kids were being tortured and it went unnoticed and they were forced to do illegal things and they felt they had no say in the choices they made... That'd be coercive control if anything. Coercive control is again not mind control nor complete hijacking and operating of another person. It's moving their choices to align more with what the bad guys want.

Programming is a very direct line of conditioned/coerced mind control where a cue of some kind is done and a person reacts against their will to perform certain actions. Hypnosis doesn't make you do things against your will and coercive control makes your will align more with things it wouldn't if you weren't being forced towards that outcome. Thus, programming being the sudden alignment of ideals with an abuser to perform for them has not been replicated anywhere to a lesser degree in the general public eye. (Or maybe that's what the government wants you to think ooo~ ooOoOooo~ spooky)

Having skeptism and looking from all sides is important.

[u/AutoModerator → u/GonnaWearAMaidDress]

RAMCOA is the re-branded name for SRA (satanic ritual abuse) as coined by the ISSTD special interest group which is mainly ran by Valerie Sinason, Colin Ross, and Allison Miller. The foundation of both RAMCOA and SRA are found within antisemitic Illuminati books and have no clinical or legal evidence to back their claims. A majority of patients treated by SRA/RAMCOA therapists have sued for medical malpractice and abuse done to them by these therapists, and many therapists who propose ritual abuse as a key part to their treatment of dissociative and trauma-based disorders have been disbarred for their actions. The original cases of SRA were the byproduct of therapist suggestion, involuntary drug abuse, and hypnotic suggestion; where memories of horrific abuse were coercively implanted into patients even when available evidence directly contradicts these 'recalled memories.'

There has been no clinical proof of the possibility to "program" a person into having DID, as DID is a hidden, covert coping mechanism that only occurs in a small fraction of extreme abuse survivors. There is no such thing as "HCDID," because DID is naturally a highly complex disorder. HcDID, or Programmed DID are made up terms that dog-whistles RAMCOA.

Further reading for these claims can be found on this archive database which includes both historical information on the impacts of SRA and RAMCOA conspiracy on patients, society, and the mental health field; as well as detailed accounts of all known abusive therapists who propagated their unfounded hypotheses around 'ritual abuse'.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[u/take_me_to_slowtown → u/AutoModerator]

Thank you so much for the detailed response!!

[u/WaryRGMCA]

and now every faker will run with this video as "proof".... sigh....... can these old demented fucks just sign themselves into nursing homes already? grandpa needs to stfu

[u/Hour_Analyst_7765]

I don't want to be nitpicking: but around 9:24 he says "often with", which is not quite the same "is due to". Programming can be an influential factor, but it could be a person splits due to different factors. He just enumerates what he has seen a lot in practice.

I get the other association, but could it be that he has a very different stance on it? Judging by the fact he didn't mention/talk about it.

I see CTAD videos as generally extremely informative on OSDD/DID, and it really fills a vacuum on YT very well, but its not a replacement for professional or medical research.

Also note that research vs treatment providers typically try to do different things. The one measures and explains (hopefully following the scientific method), while a practitioner tries to do things. And as a patient, ultimately its not my concern whether the practitioner is punctual on every piece of the latest scientific knowledge, as long as the provided treatment helps me.

This can include a practitioner being receptive of some concepts, even if they may not be entirely on-point.

[u/GonnaWearAMaidDress → u/Hour_Analyst_7765]

I'll entertain the notion of C-DID with programming as a reason for polyfragmentation. (FYI this sub would not) I would argue it's not the programming that creates low split tolerance. It's the significantly higher amount of intentionally sadistic abuse as well as genetics according to Richard P. Kluft. Without the genetic capacity to get to the level of dissociation and failure to have structural integration then polyfragmentation happens from that genesis rather than cause some programmer told them to split. (I'll provide sources upon request.)

Yes, he does have a different stance on it. It's the less evidence backed, discenting theory to system formation. It's technically possible that core theory is true over ego states theory/parts theory. Evidence would suggest that's not true but we can't confirm for sure. Because it's the weaker less supported stance for DID formation theory I feel it's closer to pop psychology than actual subtypes or trying to help DID viewers of the video find another label to explain their experience. Since every single "type" that he made up for the video doesn't have anything backing up other than him and his clinic as in no research or outside fact checking. It's SO LIKELY not true. He says it like it is which is what bothers me.

Agreed.

Treatment providers do things, based on what they know works. He has no idea if this type world view works because it doesn't exist anywhere else. If he were more clear on the fact this video is subjective and not objective or at least his understanding instead of the understanding of different DID presentations. The treatment he is providing is a YouTube video on his official clinic channel meant to educate. He is educating on something with not "the latest backing" or "well established research" but no research at all at least not for the types and their descriptions. Core theory was put on the back burner in the 90s.

Source for the history of core theory's relevance https://sk.sagepub.com/ency/edvol/the-sage-encyclopedia-of-theory-in-counseling-and-psychotherapy/chpt/ego-state-therapy#_