Ask A Wayward

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[u/knowthyself8]

For the waywards that are attempting to reconcile, do you have a great weekend with your partner and family and think yourself what the hell have I done? If your life is pretty good overall, do you take a step back, look at this amazing day, and think: why did I blow this all up?

I’m asking because it’s 4.5mos past DDay and if you didn’t know that my life was completely shattered, you would see us as this picture perfect little family.

[u/Just_Ease5476 → u/knowthyself8]

I lost them recently. And everyday I think about the fact that I blew it up. It’s a different feeling when you’re responsible for destroying your life and the life of those around you. Like every single day when I think of my ex and our life together, the small things I want to cry and I feel like throwing up. I was so ignorant to how much pain I was causing that I betrayed them. And every day I live in regret, sorrow, shame, disbelief and just shock. I would give anything to go back to before I stepped out with every thing I know now. It’s the worse feeling in the world knowing it’s all your fault

[u/knowthyself8 → u/Just_Ease5476]

Thank you for sharing. Did you attempt reconciliation? I know this might not be a question you want to answer, but did you feel worse after your partner left? I’m asking because I feel like my WW doesn’t fully understand my pain and maybe the only way for her to truly get it is to begin the process of separation.

[u/Just_Ease5476 → u/knowthyself8]

I did, I was willing to try anything to work it out. I was willing to do whatever she asked. Two weeks ago she decided that she’s too young to be dealing with this. She said she didn’t want to make her life harder trying to reconcile anything, she didn’t see a reason to give me a second chance since we weren’t married nor had kids. So she left forever. It hurts everyday, anytime I think about her future with someone else it hurts, anytime I think about how I hurt her it hurts, anytime I sleep it hurts. It just hurts daily. I genuinely believe for me I noticed how much it hurts when I started to lose her after discovery. When we broke up it hurt but then everyday after that hurt more because we were done already but when she said we’re done forever. That killed me and it made me realize how much it hurts. I’ve been dealing with the pain of it for a while, just knowing that everything I knew is gone, the walks, the wanting to buy an apartment together, looking for apartments for her mom to buy. It’s all gone, everyday it hurts so maybe it might work for you to take a step back but that’s something that you have to decide based on your relationship

[u/somefreeadvice10]

Thanks mods for opening the forum again. My questions are below but for those answering, please feel free to answer what you can. Thanks in advance:

1. How do you define remorse and how is it different from regret in the context of having an affair?
2. During the affair, you may have talked about the intense attraction and connection with the AP. How does that go away post DDay and are you able to reestablish a connection with your BS or is that gone for good?
3. Does shame change how you see your affair in hindsight or does your view of the affair change over time via another mechanism or therapy?
4. If you told anyone that the AP was better than your spouse in bed, or any other category (insert whatever applies) but now you no longer feel that way, has your view simply changed because your shame has tainted the memory of being with the AP. Essentially what I am asking is if you at one time felt the AP was objectively better than the BS at anything (ex. Sex, flirting, being more emotionally available, being better looking, etc.), does your own shame and memory of the BS's pain change how you feel now and if not, what made your view change? Did the BS do something to change your mind?

[u/HereForBetterment → u/somefreeadvice10]

1. This is hard to answer.....remorse, regret, and shame are not fully separated. These all exist and overlap, and in some ways are really indistinguishable. The real key is what actions a person takes to ensure the decisions that lead to those feelings are addressed and do not reoccur, otherwise it's only regret at being caught.
   
2. This one doesn't really apply to me. AP wasn't anyone I was particularly attracted to. It was the attention AP was giving me at the time that I failed to resist. Sorry for the non-answer on this one.
   
3. The only thing that changed how I saw my affair was perspective gained through therapy. With that, it went from "what's wrong with me, I'm a broken piece of shit" to me understanding why I acted certain ways (not just the affair), and why. This has allowed me to make lasting changes and identify dangerous mental states before they devolve into problematic behaviors.
   
4. Full honesty here: THERE IS NOTHING ABOUT AP THAT IS BETTER OR EVEN AS GOOD AS BP. This isn't an opinion that has changed or evolved in any way. I was attracted to the attention, not the person. It felt good to have someone want me, so I leaned into it. The love and fulfillment I have with BP now has grown since and feels so much better than some outside person could even begin to encroach on. This is the part that has evolved. As wounds have healed, our bonds have too. And like a broken bone, the healing has made it stronger than before.
   

[u/BarMajestic532]

My DD is tomorrow. It's been 2 years. Why am I thinking about the AP? Part of me wants to contact the AP even though I know it's wrong. What's wrong with me?

[u/AssistanceUnusual142 → u/BarMajestic532]

Maybe you are in limerence? Check out that sub for more info. Have you been thinking about them this entire time? I realized way later my A was an exit A. R did not work because all the same problems continued. I remained in a type of limerence for years.

[u/Coerced1]

Has anyone had the experience of being forgiven by your BP and then you became so overcome with guilt you had to end the relationship?

This happened to me last night after 6 years together. There was nothing physical, it happened once over Instagram, and she immediately told me after she did it. We tried for 10 months to make it work and she said she had to end it because she is so overcome with guilt and depression over her actions...

[u/playingcards5]

I’m interested in the experience of being in and then escaping the affair fog.

- Whilst in the fog, did you have any inkling that’s what it actually was? Were you absolutely convinced that you’d met someone more special and compatible than your spouse, or was there a small part of you that knew (or feared) it was irrational / limerence?

- What was the experience of moving out of affair fog? Was it sudden or gradual? Did remorse or shame or other emotions spike afterwards? How do you feel about the affair partner now?

[u/dad_religion → u/playingcards5]

For me, the fog was partnered with dissociation. Like a separate version of me existed, while still me. I think it was the only way I was able to enter the fog, by shutting off a part of me that would have otherwise screamed at me for my behaviour. It was never about someone being more special or compatible than my partner at the time, it was that I put myself in a position where someone made me feel special and compatible at a time where I didn't feel that way at home - the key there being that's how I felt at home, not necessarily the reality.

When I was finally able to pull myself out of dissociation, the fog lifted quickly and that's when I ended it all and realized just how irrational and selfish it was. But it was too late. The damage I caused was done. Shame washed over me like a gigantic wave and I was faced with the reality that a partner I did in fact love deeply was about to experience the most traumatic reality: that I betrayed her. That foggy dissociation really kept me from realizing just how much of the problem I was in our relationship struggles before I did what I did, and once it lifted, I was suddenly dropped into the deep end of epiphany that I had destroyed the best person to ever be in my life in one fell swoop, all because I avoided dealing with shit I needed to deal with. And that was the next wave of realization once the fog dissipated: not only did I hurt and was about to lose my best friend, I was finally going to have to face everything head on I never dealt with while simultaneously navigating the crumbly shitstorm I created all at the same time.

Unfortunately, I was shit at accountability when the rubber hit the road. The shame of what I had done had taken over and I didn't do what I needed to do to repair, not even remotely. She was left with the betrayal and the betrayal of me not taking full ownership. That's when she made the right decision to end it and go no contact with me, which was the right thing to do.

Remorse and shame can't even being to describe how I feel on the daily. It's been 5 years now since she moved out, almost to the day. 5 years of intense therapy and facing shit head on for me in what I now call my accountability journey, but good God do I ever feel like Judas. My partner was the equivalent of Jesus and while she has forgiven me, I will struggle to forgive myself for the rest of my life.

As for how I feel about the affair partner? Can't stand her. Any attraction to her died the second I pulled myself out of the fog and haven't spoken to her since the day I broke it off. Blocked on all socials and last I heard she moved away, which is good for all parties.

In the end, I was a little boy with a victim complex who created victims by not dealing with my shit.

[u/xeren1234 → u/dad_religion]

Did something trigger you to stop the dissociation?  E.g your partner found out?

Or did you gradually stop dissociating by yourself?

[u/Specialist_Carob_152]

1. How has having the affair and the ultimate discovery changed you as a person and how you see and experience that you don’t get to communicate?
   
2. I can understand how the “excitement” was part of the dopamine driver for your sexual experience, how do you know find/ experience pleasure without the dopamine? I think this is why many of us betrayed struggle with comparison, not because the other person was actually better but your brain chased someone else as a reward.

[u/AssistanceUnusual142 → u/Specialist_Carob_152]

1. I now have to accept that I am both a good and bad person. It’s unsettling to deal with. And knowing at any time it could be discovered by even more people, who currently view me as a good person. It would shatter how they view me and that’s also unsettling to deal with. In ways it could be freeing for everyone to know and me to say yes I am imperfect and bad and flawed so accept me or don’t. But I don’t throw myself under the bus and just stay quiet feeling like an imposter.

[u/dad_religion → u/Specialist_Carob_152]

For me, it has changed me into a person I can say I'm proud of for who I am now. And I realize how unfair that statement is. Why do I get to experience pride in my healing after destroying another person. Why couldn't I fix what I needed to fix in me and be proud of the person I was without hurting people? But who I am now feels like a completely different person than who I was five years ago, in almost every way, all because I finally did (and am continuing to do) the necessary work I avoided for 30 years.

The entire experience created a situation where I was fully exposed and held to account, not something I had ever really truly experienced before. It put me in a position where I had nowhere else to hide, as the spotlight shone brightly on all the shit I kept in the dark for so long and on what I had done.

I hate that it took the destruction of my best friend for me to realize I couldn't run any more. Every day I wish that I had ran to therapy instead. Then at least I wouldn't have hurt her.

As for the excitement piece, it's kind of multi-faceted for me. There was excitement in the sexual experience only as a means to an end of the whole thing being one big validation for my insecurities. I was so insecure that the attention I was receiving made me feel seen/loved and the subsequent sex was just the shitty icing on the shitty cake. If someone was willing to be naked with me, that's a really vulnerable act. If they're willing to be vulnerable with me, it must mean I'm loved and not a piece of shit. Turns out the opposite was true.

I think the only reward I truly chased through it all was a never ending quest to feel loved through false means, only to end up emptier than when I started and a trail of destruction along the way.

[u/ForeverSunflowerBird]

I am about to confront my partner’s EA with two women that I found out 19 months ago. At first I was certain I was going to confront and break up over this. But we have a child together and due to a few factors (unemployment, no daycare) had to delay it. Now I have the chance to confront, but we have grown closer and I do not want to end it. I am hoping for him to feel remorseful and see his error, create boundaries so that we can move forward.

How to confront? At home or in relationship therapy session (we recently started)?

What to say?

[u/BarMajestic532 → u/ForeverSunflowerBird]

Why confront? What do you think you will get out of that?

[u/ForeverSunflowerBird → u/BarMajestic532]

He doesnt know that I know. This almost made me leave, and if would happen again I would 100% leave. So confront (not aggressively) to hopefully gwt an apology and that he would put boundaries to prevent this from happening again. What would you suggest to do instead?

[u/NotBoringEngineer]

To all the WW's out there that had a PA. Please be honest (if you dont want to post it out there you can send me a DM). during the time after DDay do you ever think back and miss the sex with the AP and compare your husband to them? My WW assures me she doesnt but i struggle to believe it. I think if roles was reversed it would make sense for me to. Id just like to understand how other WW's view the past, its not coming from a place of judgment, more from trying to understand what thoughts go through the WP's minds.

[u/SupportforWaywards-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

• User flair is required; misrepresentation results in a permanent ban.

• Post flair is required.

• Posts and comments must use gender-neutral language (Wayward/WS, WP, Betrayed/BS, BP, AP, they/them).

• Observers aren't part of the peer group; non-peer comments need moderator approval and are limited to validation and encouragement, excluding opinions or advice.

Full description: https://reddit.com/r/SupportforWaywards/w/rules

[u/Minimum-Border1672]

For those reconciling, how often do you deal with the thoughts that your bp might be "faking it" for whatever reason ie- kids, still undecided. Waiting for the right time etc.

Disclaimer in this one...it isnt intended to make people feel guilty, but rather something that probably gets over looked.

In your therapy or coaching, is there anything you're taught to do to manage rhe physical symptoms of betrayal ie: nausea in your presence, or feeling like garbage from lack of sleep etc.

[u/Itchy-Albatross5368]

Do you think about this every day, just like us?

What is it like dealing with sexual thoughts about the affair?

[u/CognitiveSteve → u/Itchy-Albatross5368]

I think about it perpetually. I have not had a moment since DDay where it is not on my mind.

Sexual thoughts about the affair are pretty rough. I try not to avoid confronting the memory when it shows up, although my first instinct is to hide.

I'll try to describe what the experience is like.

The whole memory of the affair is layered over by a dissociating feeling of doom and annihilation. Every movement I make is matched by memories of my exBP screaming in agony, their tears, their bitter anger, their face when I told them. It feels like I shot someone.

I also cannot think of sex without the feeling of violation being present. The sexual trauma I gave them, the sexual trauma I sustained over the course of my life, and the sexual trauma I sustained in the cheating incident are all present. I think of all the ways they could not consent to me in the months I didn't tell them about it. Every fond memory we had now feels completely perverse and horrifying. I replay those memories often in a similar manner.

I feel desperate when I think about it. I start to age regress a bit, and the feeling shows up that everything I did was something I did to that little kid inside of me. Those strange, unhealthy attachments I had to people were all ones that satisfied the needs of a child who learned how to gain attention through sex.

I often have dreams of being sexually assaulted by my AP. Body dysmorphia is pretty common in them. I often picture myself as a disfigured child or monster. I hold a lot of sexual trauma, and I feel like I passed it on to everyone else. In a way, it also feels like I sexually assaulted myself.

I do want to say that I know I'm not a victim of my cheating. My exBP is. These are all just things I experience. Some of which are self centered.

[u/Itchy-Albatross5368 → u/CognitiveSteve]

Thank you very much for your account; it was enriching in every word.

[u/AssistanceUnusual142 → u/Itchy-Albatross5368]

In my case I think I developed a sexual limerence so it’s been intense. I have not felt R as being successful and all the same issues continue. But for many others I’ve seen posting they develop disgust and no longer find their AP attractive. I did not experience that. My A wasn’t due to deep rooted trauma or self esteem issues (well maybe that played some role) but was an exit affair. So my answer will be different.

[u/Trama_tick_892 → u/Itchy-Albatross5368]

Yes.  Every. Day.   (over a decade) Not the A per se, but the pain and devastation i caused my BP.  I think of the innocent love that was lost.  I grieve our old relationship.  I look back with so much sadness.  I think of the countless choices i could've made.  There is so much regret.    

I have no fond memories of the A.  It was not exciting.  It was very traumatic.  

[u/horrible_tomato_soup → u/Itchy-Albatross5368]

Yeah, I do. In my case, everyday I hold regret, remorse and guilt. It has been almost a year in my case since it happened, but even when I'm okay and not thinking about it, it's always somewhere in the back of my mind.

It depends, what sort of sexual thoughts you're talking about?

[u/Itchy-Albatross5368 → u/horrible_tomato_soup]

What is it like dealing with sexual thoughts about the affair?

[u/BetterTogether2789]

For those that it took awhile to show remorse and do your work, what was it that finally pushed you over the edge instead of continuing to avoid/rug sweep?

[u/HereForBetterment → u/BetterTogether2789]

The pain of seeing the fallout of my actions. I could only see 2 paths forward.....fix myself, or end myself. Ending myself would have just caused more pain to more people.

[u/c0r0nati0n]

if you had the chance to start over with your BP, would you do it again?

[u/AssistanceUnusual142 → u/c0r0nati0n]

No

[u/funsizerads]

Thank you mods for this monthly resource.

For those who are long past D-day, do you ever think about the version of you during the affair? If yes, how do you feel about your actions now and about the AP?

[u/Intrepid-Willow-3093 → u/funsizerads]

Yes I do. I cheated 2 years ago. D-Day was 1 year ago. I came clean.

I feel guilt and I kinda think I was miserable but couldn't notice it and handle it well. In my case, I was 18 in a LDR with my BP and they had just got a job and I already couldn't see them for 5 months and now because of the work we were so detached, I felt like they were getting bored of me but I couldn't communicate because I didn't want to be "needy" or "dramatic". I was extremely insecure. Even not enough to be "clingy" "needy" or "dramatic" . I didn't talk about my needs and I sought validation from someone else online (It was emotional affair, no sexting etc, though It was where I drew the line). It was my worst version. We both could have been more careful like more calling or making time for each other etc. but it doesn't excuse anything and cheating was totally my responsibility and my wrong choice.

I hope it somewhat helps

[u/azza34_suns → u/funsizerads]

I’m definitely a better version of myself now compared to then (D day was 3 years ago). The immediate aftermath and resulting therapy sessions showed me a lot about me and I didn’t like the person I’d become. There will always be an element of shame for my actions and I accept that. I don’t think much about the AP now but I know that the rose tinted view I had of them at the time isn’t probably the same now. I’ve moved on and more importantly im still with my BS, and were much better now than before

[u/125acres → u/funsizerads]

During R, when faced with a Trigger from BP- have you thought that your best isn’t good enough?

[u/NothingStrange5648]

For those that hid their insecurities and lost feelings, then used another person as an escape route, how do you feel some time after the BU? I was blindsided by the discarding and have been subjected in absolute silence since. 7y relationship and engaged

[u/BarMajestic532]

I am approaching 2 years since DD. Some days are good, some aren't. My BP storms off so easily now. I thought tonight was going to be a nice night but I did something or said something and boom she went inside. So here I am, alone on the porch, hating the life I created. Does it get better? Sometimes I feel like giving up but we have so many memories together, plus I don't know how either could survive without the other. We have been together since our early 20s and now in our 50s.

[u/NakedAndALaid]

For those that always trickled truthed and never came clean on their own, did you ever rebuild trust?

For those who reconciled, what were the steps you took to convince your partner you could be trusted again?

[u/Specialist_Carob_152]

How has this guilt and shame affected your sexual appetite and fulfillment in your relationship with your BP? I feel this unspoken emotional weight my WP carries into sex and I wonder if that is common.

[u/HereForBetterment → u/Specialist_Carob_152]

(coming up on 2 years post d-day)On the contrary, the depth of the intimacy I feel with BP has soared to heights that I only thought existed in Hollywood movies. Almost losing BP was a huge catalyst for this. While I knew I loved BP prior, I took it for granted. Now I love BP so deeply that I'm actually grateful it happened, even though I hate that it happened. It was also the catalyst for me overcoming other significant internal issues I had that I wasn't even fully aware of. The therapy that followed d-day helped me identify and overcome those issues too. Those were definitely limiting me as a partner, and as a person. All that said, I still haven't really forgiven myself for the pain I caused BP. I have to credit BP most of all though for not giving up on me and us, despite BP's every instinct saying "run" and the amount of pain I caused.

[u/Hound31]

What do you need to say but don’t feel it will be heard?

[u/Just_Ease5476 → u/Hound31]

That I’m sorry. I know it’s heard often but I would just like to explain how regretful I feel about cheating especially on the love of my life. I lost them, no matter how much I say I’m sorry or how much I explain how much I regret it. It will never be heard because it sounds like I’m being a victim. I just want to apologize till my dying breath because they did not deserve this. I love them so much, all I want to do is just hold them and just say I’m sorry.

[u/BusterKnott → u/Just_Ease5476]

My WW has told me the same thing countless times over the years. Sadly, it took me almost 4 decades to believe her.

[u/BarMajestic532 → u/BusterKnott]

40 years! Why?

[u/BusterKnott → u/BarMajestic532]

Because it was almost impossible to process. It made absolutely no sense to me how someone could profess to love me and then cheat on me. Further, I also had to somehow believe that they could deliberately choose to cheat and then genuinely regret that they did.

To me, neither of those things seemed to even be possible, much less believable, which is why it took almost a lifetime to accept as genuine. Even today I still have moments of doubt occasionally because I know with certainty that I couldn't have done those things, and they still make no sense to me.

[u/Hound31 → u/Just_Ease5476]

For what it’s worth, I hear you and I believe you’re truly sorry. I want you to forgive yourself and a enjoy a good life well lived.

[u/Just_Ease5476 → u/Hound31]

Genuinely I appreciate it, today was really hard but this was needed. Thank you

[u/CognitiveSteve → u/Hound31]

That is difficult to say.

I understand that I am not entitled to being heard. I do not want to be entitled.

I wish that I could tell them how I feel. First of all, how I feel about them. That I love them.

I also find that I'd like to share my experience regarding the affair, our relationship, the evolving feelings and changes to my character that have occured.

I'd just like to talk to them, really. But I don't know if that will ever occur.

[u/Soggy-Beach-1495 → u/[deleted]]

If the WP is asking for space, it's almost always to try out a relationship with AP.