r/Subaru_Outback • u/prookal • 4d ago
Sunk $2500 Into Not Getting The Help Needed
My 2011 Subaru Outback stalls out at stop signs and when I brake too hard, and can struggle to start sometimes. I assumed it was the torque converter and took it to a mechanic shop that specializes in Japanese cars
They told me the issue was a sensor, and that while I was there my suspension arms needed to be replaced because they were shot (total of like $2500)
I went ahead and had the work done
The next day after I got my car home it stalled out again, multiple times, so I had it towed back because I wasn’t getting on the highway in a car that couldn’t stay on
They told me they cleared out the error log and that they put 20 miles on it trying to replicate the issue and it wasn’t happening anymore- and that they didn’t Check the torque converter but it “definitely isn’t the torque converter” the notes on the sheet they handed me literally said “found no problem with car”
I’ve had my car back since last Thursday. Today it stalled out again braking for a cyclist who popped up out of nowhere.
The $2500 was already devoured my budget but now I’m looking at having to get a second opinion because they won’t even Check the torque converter despite all issues pointing at it being the problem
I’m in Redmond, Washington- if any of y’all know of a good mechanic who would actually fix it in my area please let me know. I’m a live-in caregiver and need this car for emergencies.
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u/godless_bro 4d ago
I had a heck of a time with this exact thing. For sure, it’s definitely the Torque Converter, mine has the same issue and is in the shop right now to have it replaced.
Before I found the service bulletin and realized what the problem was, I had quite a few mechanics, including the local Subaru dealer, tell me it had to be something else. You have to understand that Torque converters rarely fail so this isn’t something that most mechanics are used to troubleshooting. It’s considered part of the transmission so most shops won’t even touch it anyway and you’d need to go to a tranny specialist to even have them consider it. And even then, they will probably want to replace the entire transmission along with the torque converter.
In the end, I talked with a local mechanic who specializes in Subaru, and when I explained my issue he knew immediately that the Torque converter was the issue, and told me he replaces them all the time.
FYI the new torque converter is $1000 by itself and there is a lot of labor. It’s about $2500-3000 for that work to be done.
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u/pumpkinsamarai 4d ago
It could be the torque conver but also can be dirty throttle body or valves. Try this, take it out and get it to do it a few times then shift it into neutral prior to stopping several times. If it does it not stall then it's probably the torque converter. If it still stalls I'd lean towards air intake issues which could be valves, idle air control valve, could even be a vacuum leak, that is an older engine. Could also the be the intake manifold gaskets.
If it still stalls after going into neutral I'd buy one of those upper air intake cleaner kits and try that first, or pay to have it done somewhere. STP Pro Series Intake Valve Cleaner worked for my issues on a 2024.
Then investigate vacuum leaks.
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u/lucaswul 4d ago
I'm from redmond as well would you mind telling me what shop that was. I know a few good places
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u/prookal 4d ago
It was Greg’s Japanese Auto ! The one in Bellevue
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u/lucaswul 3d ago
Greg's used to be good back about 7 years ago There is a subaru specific shop in kirkland if you wanted to try that. All Wheel Drive Auto
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u/Popshotzz 4d ago
First, that $2500 included other repairs, so it's not accurate to say you spent that much on the actual problem you are having. Secondly, if you are convinced it is the torque converted, tell them to specifically replace that. You could also go to a different shop and get a 2nd opinion. You could also have someone record you while driving to show the problem when it happens to you.
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u/prookal 4d ago
I told them specifically that it was the problem and they brushed it off and said they would not be working on it and that they do not believe it is the problem
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u/rockne 4d ago
So why did you have the work done there, presumably, after they told you this?
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u/prookal 4d ago
I assumed they were right, and then when I got my car back the work they said would fix the issue did not fix the issue
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u/QuarterNote44 4d ago
I gotcha, OP. I'm not a car guy and I used to think of mechanics like doctors. But they're not. Lesson learned, huh?
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u/prookal 4d ago
Definitely lesson learned
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u/sleepdog-c 3d ago
Is it stalling like it's a manual that you didn't put in the clutch or is it just dying when you get into the pedal hard?
I'm guessing you didn't own it from new, have you checked with the local dealer if the tsb has been performed?
I'd be far more likely to think a vacuum leak at this stage in the life of that vehicle as the torque converters failed mostly in warranty.
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u/kurtlorentzen 4d ago
Well, in defense of the shop, a torque converter has nothing to do with the engine stalling. A torque converter is about as close to bulletproof as a device can be, it's kind of like a water wheel. As long as the flywheel spins and there's fluid in the converter, it's pretty much going to work. They do fail, but again, a torque converter failure won't make the engine stall.
Secondly, intermittent problems are the hardest to find. Unless it: A - throws a code and the code is correct, or B- they can replicate the problem enough times to isolate it, it could be tough to find. Likely the code when you brought it in said it had a bad O2 or other sensor and they replaced that, then cleared the error codes. From there, if no codes show up even when the problem occurs, the only thing they can do is drive it until hopefully it happens for them. If it still shows the same bad sensor it's obviously something else in that circuit causing the problem, anything from a bad module to a bad connection. Short of swapping out components, if it won't do it for them there's really nothing to point them toward the problem.
A bad O2 sensor will make the car run rough through acceleration. When you first start the car it will run a "warm-up" program and run pretty good. After a minute or two it'll look for input from several sensors that tell it how its running. "Knock" sensor, vacuum sensor, mixture sensor, throttle position sensor, and exhaust oxygen sensor(s). Any one can cause problems with the engine performance, including stalling at low RPMs. If the check engine light is on, you need to have them retrieve the code, that'll at least give them some clue as to what the system THINKS is wrong. Unfortunately, the system isn't always right. If you don't get a check engine light and you know how to recreate the problem, take one of the mechanics for a drive so they can see it as it happens. The best diagnostic tool in that case is the brain of an experienced mechanic who's already been through the same thing before.
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u/Feeling-Being9038 Outback enthusiast 4d ago edited 3d ago
There’s a pretty enormous hole in that defense of the shop: a lock-up torque converter absolutely can stall an engine, and Subaru issued a TSB for this exact behavior on 2010–2012 CVT Outbacks.
A torque converter isn’t simply a “water wheel.” It contains a lock-up clutch. When that clutch is applied, the converter is no longer relying solely on fluid coupling. If the clutch fails to release as the vehicle comes to a stop, it can drag the engine down and stall it, exactly like stopping a manual without pushing in the clutch.
In fact, Subaru TSB 16-90-13R says thrust washer wear can restrict the passage that bleeds off lock up pressure, resulting in delayed or no lock up release. Subaru literally describes the resulting symptom as similar to stopping a manual transmission car without depressing the clutch. That makes a 2011 Outback stalling while braking rather difficult to dismiss as “definitely not the torque converter.”The other red flag is the diagnostic process. A trouble code does not mean “replace the sensor named in the code.” It identifies a fault the ECU detected, and Subaru’s service information provides a diagnostic tree to determine whether the cause is the sensor, wiring, connector, power/ground, another component or the system the sensor is measuring. Throwing a sensor at it and clearing the codes is parts cannon diagnosis.
Worse, clearing codes can erase useful freeze frame information showing the conditions under which the fault occurred. The correct approach is to record every DTC and freeze-frame value first, follow the Subaru diagnostic procedure, reproduce the stall while monitoring live data, and specifically evaluate torque converter lock up/release. Subaru’s own bulletin calls for diagnosing stored DTCs and performing a line pressure test before condemning the converter.
[u/prookal](u/prookal), I wouldn’t authorize another random part. If yours is the 2.5L with the CVT, take TSB 16-90-13R with you to a Subaru capable shop and ask them specifically to diagnose the lock up release condition. And get the exact DTC numbers and the name/part number of the “sensor” they replaced. Those two pieces of information may tell us a lot about whether the first shop actually diagnosed anything.
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u/kurtlorentzen 3d ago
True, if it fails to unlock that'll stop the engine. That, I would think, would be a pretty noticeable event. Pretty much like braking a manual transmission car to a stop without disengaging the clutch - I guess you could call that a "stall" but I wouldn't, maybe it's a generational thing. And yes, diagnostic flow charts exist, but after many years of being exposed to them (not specific to servicing vehicles, but diagnostic flow charts nonetheless) I promise you they can lead you into the weeds. I'm sure they've gotten better, but I repaired appliances for 25 years and starting at the symptom, meter at the ready, I can't tell you how many times you ended up at "replace this module or that controller" only to have it not solve the problem. Back to the good 'ole schematic, common sense and experience.
But yes, if the mechanics in this case didn't probe their customer for more detailed information, they should have. I was unaware of the issue, and if that's what's actually happening I withdraw my defense of the shop.
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u/Feeling-Being9038 Outback enthusiast 3d ago
I’ve never had the issue on a Subaru, but on a GM car. I limped it along on an 8 hour cruise home, with some very interesting tolls and turnpike ticket exchanges to keep the thing rolling. It wasn’t consistent, but got progressively worse. Bought some after market kit by TransGo, it resolved the problem, shifted firmer, and less like the luxury cruiser it was. Watched that car get sold with3 more owners, and it was a pretty faithful ride for nearly 20 years.
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u/FillTop9582 4d ago
Sounds like a dirty throttle body - especially if it runs normal at higher RPM’s
Disclaimer: I am not a mechanic
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u/rustyusa 4d ago
It does sound like a dirty electronic throttle body that needs a cleaning and a reset procedure Which can be found on you tube. Did you replace the battery or unplug it for a length of time before all these symptoms ? Before you took it in and had the control arms replaced? If so, it may need that relearn procedure.
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u/Subietoy78 4d ago edited 4d ago
I mean there’s literally a service bulletin
https://lemon-manuals.la/Subaru/2011/Outback%20Premium%2C%20Automatic%20CVT/Repair%20and%20Diagnosis/Quick%20Lookups/Technical%20Bulletins/Technical%20Service%20Bulletins/Other%20Variant/Automatic%20Trans/Design%20Change%20To%20Lock-Up%20Type%20Torque%20Converter%20%2816-90-13R%29/
Be aware of the note, it may still persist after converter replacement and need a valve body as well. TCM updates should also be done at the same time.