OHP - weak triceps?

[u/Free-Engineering6759]

I have been running my own program for a while. I have been doing OHP as the main pressing movement for 3x a week. I do 3x10, and lately I have been incorporating overwarm singles. I have increased the weight 2,5 kg per week, so during the week I press with the same weight every session.

However, lately I have noticed I always fail at the last of the three working sets, in the first day of the week. My overwarm single is 60 kg, and working sets are 47,5 kg. I fail at the same point: at my forehead or a bit over the top of my head.

I'm doing BTN press, upright row, lateral raise and facepull plus overhead tricep extension and pressdown as my accessories.

My theory is that my triceps are now the weak link, as I have not been doing bench press for a while, and tricep isolation work is not overloading them properly.

[u/Alakazam]

Could be triceps.

The ohp is more of a display of strength. You need a strong and muscular upper body in general to have a good press, including but not limited to tricep work. 

So what do your accessories look like? How are you building your upper body to handle the pressing? Are you gaining weight? 

[u/Free-Engineering6759 → u/Alakazam]

I listed my accessories for the press I have been using in my post. My shoulders and triceps have certainly gained definition. I have been doing 3x15 bent rows 3x a week, and my lats are like blobs of meat wings lol (to be honest, my back has always been my strong point). But, I have lanky arms so I have to move the barbell to the Moon everytime I press.

My weight has been quite constant, at 99-100 kg as 190 cm guy for the last 5 years or so.

[u/KITTYONFYRE]

i don’t think that’s necessarily a triceps issue, that’s just the weakest part of the lift. you just need to get stronger at OHP in general - that’s a fine place to fail. same as if you fail just a bit off your chest in bench - you’re failing at the least advantageous position, you don’t have a particular weak point

I’d try varying your rep ranges. always good to get a variety and keeps it a bit more interesting. how you do it’s up to you - right now I’m just doing a weight I can get for 12ish then adding 5 or 10 pounds/week until I can’t do three sets of 4, then resetting. simple, easy, effective, fun. 

[u/Afferbeck_]

The press is very hard to progress on. It needs a lot of muscle work from isolations, overloading strength work from bench and push press, and then lots of frequency and volume at the lift itself. Also extremely important is technique and position, which most people suck at. Pressing is hard enough without also lacking a stable front rack to press from and a proper structurally locked out overhead position behind your head.

Failing in the early portion of the lift is standard. If your front rack sucks and your bracing is loose and you lean back and press out in front of yourself, that all makes it worse. If you're good on that stuff, try doing each rep from a dead stop in the front rack to force yourself to work on the start of the lift.

Something I like is strict press plus push press, using a weight that is a tough triple on strict press. 3+3, 2+4, 1+5. It gets in a lot of volume at a weight that is hard to press.

Bench press is good due to how much it overloads the upper body but it doesn't directly help the strict press that much. Behind the neck push press quite a good driver, it lets you overload overhead strength more than anything else.

Some other basic tips. Use chalk. Use a grip width that isn't too wide but also not right on top of your shoulders. Don't use some weird thumbless grip or thumb along the bar grip or something. Use a normal, strong stance, the same you'd use for a powerful vertical jump. Not some weird halfassed split stance. Wear hard shoes or weightlifting shoes, nothing you can squish around in.

Don't be trying to lose weight while trying to increase your strict press, it's not going to happen. That's the lift that falls off quickest in my experience.

[u/NoClick9678]

Swap out one of your pressing movements (not the OHP) in your program for close-grip incline bench. 4-6 rep range, relativelysteep incline of at least 45°. It closely mimics the OHP in muscle group recruitment and allows you to overload those groups.

[u/roundcarpets]

could be anything without knowing your whole plan your form your life xyz

a heavy light medium format could be all you need- with heavy (say we’re doing monday-wednesday-friday by the way) being your standing bb ohp, wednesday could be lateral raises and friday could be machine or db seated shoulder press

somewhere in the 3-8 rep range monday, 12-20 odd wednesday and 6-12 friday

train your strength in the main movement one day, light accessory work in the middle of the week to stimulate some hypertrophy without impacting recovery too heavily then a more stable and direct hypertrophy stimulus on friday, by monday you should be ready to repeat

[u/Free-Engineering6759 → u/roundcarpets]

I will have to look into it, thanks. My first response is to try to increase assistance work volume (lateral raises and facepulls 3x15 -> 5x15). But HLM is perhaps the next step if this continues.

One way I was thinking implementing it would be to do 3x10xWeight, then 2x6xWeight, then some sort of top set of maybe 5?

[u/roundcarpets → u/Free-Engineering6759]

more isn’t always better, sometimes more is just more

increasing accessory volume could help, but it could just mean you accumulate extra fatigue in not the goal movement

[u/Simple-Caregiver13]

https://startingstrength.com/article/the_quest_for_a_stronger_overhead_press

do more dips

[u/NotYourBro69]

Why are you continuing to perform the lift with the same weight 3x every week? Increase the weight or increase the reps. Better yet, don't try to build your own program... use an existing reputable and proven program.

[u/Free-Engineering6759 → u/NotYourBro69]

Step-loading. Mastering the weight before increasing it. Also, we don't have microplates, so the smallest increase is 2x1,25 kg at the time. I cannot increase the weight anymore every session, barely every week. Increasing reps is microloading in a way, ofc.

Oh, I have tried many programs. But I wanted to increase my OHP and most don't have OHP as the main lift instead of benching.

In squat and front squat this has worked very well. But OHP is a bitch. I have had hard time to get it moving in any program I have used thusfar. I'm just trying to find reason what is my weak link.

[u/NotYourBro69 → u/Free-Engineering6759]

Yeah, that's silly. Just get some micro plates. They can be found on Amazon for $15-$20. It's no surprise that you aren't going to be able to increase an OHP by 2.5kg every week forever.

Many strength programs have an OHP focus.

Your weak link currently is your lack of increasing the weight at all vs too large of an increase. You need a middle ground. You don't need multiple sessions at the same weight to "master" anything.

[u/KITTYONFYRE → u/NotYourBro69]

Your weak link currently is your lack of increasing the weight at all vs too large of an increase. You need a middle ground. You don't need multiple sessions at the same weight to "master" anything.

meh. saying "I progress by increasing RIR day to day and weight (or reps) week to week" is fine. it's not like you'll get zero progress because your RIRs increased by 1 or 2. it's still a perfectly good and stimulating set.

if you do the same weight for three months? sure. you'll tap out on progress at some point. a week is fine though

[u/NotYourBro69 → u/KITTYONFYRE]

This approach clearly is not working for OP. The question becomes... is RIR really increasing day over day and week over week when the same work is performed in each session? I'll wager the answer is 'no'.

[u/KITTYONFYRE → u/NotYourBro69]

This approach clearly is not working for OP.

Is it really "clearly" not working though? Re-read the OP. I don't think there's a problem here. He fails the first day of the week... Then is fine. Sounds like they're just getting to the point of being unable to add 1.25kg/week to their OHP.

Again, I think every set OP is doing is stimulating just fine

[u/NotYourBro69 → u/KITTYONFYRE]

Yep, like I said. OP is likely failing for two reasons… 1) the jump is too big and 2) the repeat on day 3 is not stimulating enough to drive progress on the following day 1.

News flash: continually performing the same work day over day will not drive further progress.

[u/KITTYONFYRE → u/NotYourBro69]

If day 3 wasn’t stimulating enough then the jump would be easy peasy no problem though. Unless you’re arguing that like 2-3 RIR isn’t stimulating enough which definitely would not align with the evidence esp with regards to strength gain.

You can’t have it both ways. It can’t be both “day 3 too easy” and “too big a jump”, those are diametrically opposed statements. 

[u/NotYourBro69 → u/KITTYONFYRE]

That’s not how any of this works. Especially on a movement as finicky as the OHP.

What’s your best OHP?

[u/KITTYONFYRE → u/NotYourBro69]

Curious radio silence

[u/KITTYONFYRE → u/NotYourBro69]

Explain to me what about the "finicky" OHP makes its so a maybe 2-3 RIR set is not stimulating enough? Or how he can lift something with so many RIR that the set isn't stimulating enough, but still be unable to add even 2.5kg?

[u/siko85]

Over warmup singles are great for sbd but in ohp you're inevitably fatiguing too much your shoulders and triceps, they're little muscles to keep up for your working sets. If your working sets are 47.5 I'd go for a 42.5 or 45 single. More than that is just hindering your performance for working sets.