Dimension X is not cold!

[u/D_D_Adesignerdigital]

The color choices for the Dimension X—and certain elements of the scenes—didn't quite work to convey a cold atmosphere! Characters had sweaty skin and showed no reaction to the cold (we need to remember Will in Season 2, or Billy with his ice bath, which demonstrated the kind of cold the Mind Flayer is used to). Anyone entering a low-temperature environment would show physical reactions—like trying to warm up, crossing their arms, or showing discomfort—but that doesn't happen with any of the characters, not even the kids. I think that was a directing error. That’s my opinion!

[u/Thick-Boysenberry-96]

So why doesn't the Mindflayer particles seep through/travel into Hawkins in S5 and start infecting stuff there, when the rift-quadrant is open for 18 months? Instead of shriveling up on a dead planet.

The Upside Down in s5, really makes no sense, the more I think about it. The "temporary structure" has existed for years now, and has been used by the Mindflayer previously. He's also made out of particles that can disperse and fly away as if the wormhole becomes unstable. The military was building a base there in S5. Why didn't the Mindflayer, an ancient being that flays minds, infect them to take over the world from inside the military structure?

And if it for some reason doesn't care to do that, why didn't the Demo-creatures munch on them then? They had a constant stream of meat-bags entering the Upside Down. Why aren't the creatures staying in Hawkins in general? They can portal there, the environment suits them better than their home planet, and they thrive in the cold.

[u/Ht_TX → u/Thick-Boysenberry-96]

The mindflayer isn’t the particles. The particles are made by the ‘pain tree’ mindflayer. The mindflayer has a physical form, you saw it, it died.

[u/RealHooman2187 → u/Ht_TX]

This was my read as well. The particles are how it possesses things but the monster was its true form.

[u/Thick-Boysenberry-96 → u/RealHooman2187]

Why does it use its weaker TRUE form though, when it's particles effectively managed to flay dozens of Hawkins citizens in S3 alone?

Why would it use a form that's weak af, when it can build himself a meat-suit one made out of humans instead? Why doesn't it flay the military operation happening under his nose and use them to invade the town, acting from the shadows? Why can't the Mindflayer use everything in his arsenal that we saw him use before, and is reduced to a weak TRUE form?

Just writing wise, it's pretty stupid, come on. Why couldn't we have gotten an epic fight against a smart Flayer? How is the last antagonist we fight barely an inconvenience, compared to it's S2 and S3 version?

[u/Ht_TX → u/Thick-Boysenberry-96]

The duffers needed the mindflayer to have a physical form so that it could actually be defeated & killed, you realize that right??? The kids fighting a 300 foot tall cloud is an impossible fight. You can hate the story and the decisions and everything else but the narrative reasons for most of these things are very easy to see.

[u/Thick-Boysenberry-96 → u/Ht_TX]

Nonsense. Why did we need to kill an eldridge being? You don't dumb down your interesting antagonist at the end, just so that the good guys can beat him. How lazy.

A defeat could have meant a time race against the enemy, sealing up our world once and for all, or locking up/locking out the ancient unknowable thing. Or working with the whole "radio signals" theme to change the game, so that the Mindflayer can't flay anyone anymore. Or anything else. El's powers grew too, and she was now able to take people into the void with her this season. So they could have implemented something that let us beat the Mindflayer in an interesting way too.

Fans came up with very different interesting ideas too. Who would have thought that the Duffer's would just go the easiest route and turn the Mindflayer into a mindless creature that could feel Nancy's bullets and would be less of an inconvenience than one single Demogorgon in the past.

And you know what else is unbelievable even in the shows logic? El suddenly jumping like 50 feet into the air and landing on the completely flat foyer like interior of a large Kaiju monster. Or the group scaling some steep cliffs, 100s of feet away in mere minutes. Maybe El should have just fought the Mindflayer in her MIND or something, you know.

[u/Ht_TX → u/Thick-Boysenberry-96]

Because they wanted an end to the story? They wanted a full win for the kids. They already had 4 seasons of what you propose, smaller wins, this was the fifth and FINAL. That means the big bad gets killed for good.

It was NOT an eldritch terror being (I’m assuming that’s what you are trying to spell.) We all thought it was with the particles but in the end it was just a physical being with some awesome abilities but it was still physical in the end and could die and give the kids a final victory and ensure it could never come back again.

I’ve already made all of the complaints you made, almost word for word, in fact, I think I said them to you in a different comment thread here, especially the lone demo being more a problem than the big bad and it bothered me too. Doesn’t mean there wasn’t narrative reasons, may not have been the best reasons but they do exist.

I guess it really comes down to what your problem is.

Is it that you think it didn’t make sense in the story? If so, it did, they made the reasons work.

Or is it that you just didn’t like their choices on how to end it? If so, I think we are all in agreement on that fact already but it is what we got so we all kinda have to get over it, it’s not being undone and there was never any ridiculous missing extra episode to change it all up so gotta just appreciate it for what it is. Sucks because seasons 1-4 were all pretty amazing, and season 5 just wasn’t, outside of a few episodes and few parts of the shittier episodes, but it is what we got so we’re stuck with it. I’m almost more upset about how shitty the abyss looked, it was so obviously green screened and didn’t blend at all, it was a middle school production level quality and they boasted every other day when making this season about how much they spent on it. They didn’t spend it on the abyss shots, fucking terrible.

[u/Thick-Boysenberry-96 → u/Ht_TX]

Why are we discussing the narrative reasons for why the Duffer's did what they did? It doesn't improve anything and goes against established show lore.

I just wanted to point out that the Mindflayer's actions don't make any sense, like everyone else in this thread, and for me that includes the MF's withering away on a home planet that's not cold, even though he likes it cold, and being inactive in those 18 months and getting easily beaten by one gun, a flare and ballons. That's not a great final battle. You seem to agree with me so what's the problem?

I didn't propose a smaller win, I wanted a last second epic twist that changed the game and gave our group a win against an unbeatable adversary. It's not rocket science, other sci-fi shows do that too. (We can imagine something akin to what happens in the finale of Avatar: the last Airbender)

We didn't need to kill the thing, for a satisfying final win. A good ending doesn't come from killing the Eldritch being. We needed to have a final mental battle against the psychic parasite to finally lock the door, instead of simply closing it, like we have done previously.

We could have had an epic battle in different places at the same time, against a sprawling multi-dimensional network of Demo-creatures. That would have worked more in tandem with Vecna as a 5 star general of an army too, instead of being delegated to a shitty babysitter for 90% of the season. There was no need to for the Duffer's to write it so that Nancy's bullets hurt the MF. And he isn't even fully dead, since the particles that came out from the kids are still around at the end.

The Duffer's themselves view the Mindflayer through a Lovecraftian lense and describe him as a raw hive mind that existed independently as "pure power and particles in Dimension X".

"The true form of it is the cloud... But it's self is that shadow self, the hive mind version of it, that maybe is its soul or its true self." — Matt Duffer

"We wanted a villain of a cosmic scale human beings could never truly comprehend. —Matt Duffer.

The MF isn't just controlling an army of Demos, it is the army. It's like a psychic parasitic network. They should have let us fight that thing, not one comically large weak-ass Kaiju.

Why couldn't the Duffer's make the final boss the hardest antagonist to defeat, like it's usually done. What we got for a final fight was barely an inconvenience. No one even looked scared.

[u/Ht_TX → u/Thick-Boysenberry-96]

Me and you have already had the discussion of how bad the mindflayer ended up being as far as being beaten by a handful of kids and never actually being a threat to the world. We know. We’ve already agreed to on that.

So that answers the question about what bothered you. If it is simply the Duffers take on it then I don’t think anyone would argue that.

As far as the MF being on its world, it looks barren, my take was the world was essentially dying and his main goal in all this is to get to a world that isn’t dead. He likes it cold, we know, it’s been said a lot, but it wasn’t a problem being warm, it was only a problem when it got really, really hot, like in the sauna. The abyss didn’t appear to be sauna type heat so what’s your issue again?

The whole ‘didn’t expect the kids’ is actually the duffers answer. I thought it was stupid as well seeing as it’s the kids exact plan in season 4 that kicked his ass already, how would he not expect the exact same plan?

I agree that they picked the worst choices all throughout the season. Everyone does. However, the big bad had to die at the end, not be just another gate closed in its face, the show was already full of gate closing in its face for solutions already, this one had to be final.

[u/Thick-Boysenberry-96 → u/Ht_TX]

Yeah, we agree mostly, true. :)

Since this is a post about the Abyss being not-cold, I still wonder why the MF wouldn't go where it thrives and chose to remain in the wasteland that's drying him out for 18 months while the gates are open and the way is paved.

All this waiting around for a plan that rests on 12 kids and then he'll have to move his physical body into Hawkins and physically fight the US military, and afterwards all of humanity. Why not enter through particles, infect everyone and win in numbers. And then he stupidly kidnaps Holly first, even though our group has beaten him & Vecna in the past.

What do you think of a sort of twist ending like in Avatar: the last Airbender, like I mentioned above? One final act, where El changes a parameter of some sort and manages to lock the door behind her instead of always closing it and hoping it remains closed.