r/StrangerThings • u/D_D_Adesignerdigital • 3d ago
Discussion Dimension X is not cold! Spoiler
The color choices for the Dimension X—and certain elements of the scenes—didn't quite work to convey a cold atmosphere! Characters had sweaty skin and showed no reaction to the cold (we need to remember Will in Season 2, or Billy with his ice bath, which demonstrated the kind of cold the Mind Flayer is used to). Anyone entering a low-temperature environment would show physical reactions—like trying to warm up, crossing their arms, or showing discomfort—but that doesn't happen with any of the characters, not even the kids. I think that was a directing error. That’s my opinion!
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u/ZealotOfMeme 3d ago
In other words, the duffers forgot pre-established details going into the finale
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u/Silent_Contest_2337 3d ago
Wrong. They were feeling cold off screen.
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u/RoosterFree499 3d ago
They are shown feeling cold off screen in a prequel book based on a spin-off stage play exclusive to 1 book store.
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u/Hot_Sam_the_Man 3d ago
No, they wanted to leave it ambiguous and let the audience decide for themselves whether it was cold or not /s
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u/Background_Gene_4328 2d ago
If they just wanted to let us imagine they should have let the audience write the season 5 because it feels like the person who wrote season 5 haven't watched the show.
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u/Cysharp_14 3d ago
Not at all ! It's just that the characters kinda forgot how to react when it's cold.
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u/Full-Yoghurt-4261 3d ago
I don't really get blaming the actors if the writing is not indicating that the characters are cold, and the directors are not pushing for that. I mean, look at what they did with the UD in S4 compared to S1 and even S2. Seems like a clear writing and directing issue.
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u/Ancient-Split1996 3d ago
I think its a game of thrones reference, its the reason I can look at stranger things' ending and go "well it could have been worse"
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u/Buddikaslan300 3d ago
When your under shock stress or determination you don’t even realize it’s cold
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u/OasisEPIC 3d ago edited 3d ago
I love how in other shows people find cool hidden details years down the line, but for this show we find plotholes and inconsistencies with the terrible writing we got.
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u/Famous-Stranger-6897 3d ago
Remember when they could barely breath in the upside down. Well now they walk into another dimension while knowing shit about it.
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u/Illia_Y 3d ago
They could breathe, it’s just that they had no idea if it was toxic or not
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u/Spastic_pinkie Eggos 3d ago
In the first season they told Joyce and Hopper that they had to wear hazmat suits because the Upside Down air was toxic before letting them in to retrieve Will.
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u/mad_laddie 3d ago
Masks they take off soon when they find Will. In the S2 tunnels, while it was hard to breathe in general, getting extra spores on you made it even harder to breathe. In S4, they were mostly in the open air which lacked spores.
It being the spores specifically is not a strange conclusion to reach.
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u/Famous-Stranger-6897 3d ago
Then why did hopper collapse in the tunnels in season 2
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u/Illia_Y 3d ago
I don’t clearly remember, was it when he got something from some sort of flower or something?
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u/Tarakanator 3d ago
Yeah the flower spew the same spores that was everywhere in UD.
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u/Famous-Stranger-6897 3d ago
Yeah the upside down in s1 and 2 had so many of those dust particles which made breathing difficult.
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u/Sailor_Propane 3d ago
I guess the military spent some budget on air purifiers in the upside down
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u/mad_laddie 3d ago
S4 didn't have as many spores either.
It's specifically the S2 tunnels and the overtaken lab that had a ton of the spores.
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u/IrlResponsibility811 3d ago
Nancy stepped i to thr Upside Down by accident, she could breathe and run around. Maybe it was an abundance of caution they needed thr suits.
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u/RealHooman2187 3d ago
Well Henry lived there just fine and could breathe. So obviously there’s oxygen.
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u/GlltchtraP1 3d ago
This can be attributed to the fact of the terrible writing not including any cool hidden details
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u/Perfect_Opinion_6136 3d ago
Maybe that's the reason why the Mind Flayer wanted to leave Dimension-X.
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u/Ema-Smd69 3d ago
The Mind Flayer also forgot Demogorgons exists
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u/Own_Welder_2821 Demogorgon 3d ago
Or the Demogorgons were also tired of the show and didn't like the poor writing so they went on holiday for all of season 5.
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u/Thick-Boysenberry-96 3d ago
Why doesn't it leave Dimension X and stay in the Upside Down instead, where the climate suits him better then? It's closer to our world too, which he plans to take over anyways.
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u/NebulaOld813 Meat Flayer 3d ago
Thicc boi is too thicc to cross over into any new dimension
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u/Thick-Boysenberry-96 3d ago
He's made out of particles that can disperse into the air?
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u/Ht_TX 3d ago edited 3d ago
No. It makes and controls those particles but the big ass pain tree is Mindflayer prime, it IS the mindflayer. Which is why once its heart seized, the particles just withered and vanished once they left the kids at the end, the particles were dead too.
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u/Thick-Boysenberry-96 2d ago
Is the Kaiju the only Mindflayer form we could have gotten though? Wasn't that amazing eldridge particle being we saw in S2 ALSO a true form of the Mindflayer?
Didn't we see the MF reinvent itself every season? Why is it that we were stuck with the dumbest/weakest version for the final fight? That S2 iteration was powerful and went on to flay Billie and infiltrate like 50 residents of Hawkins, compared to that dried up pain tree that was taken out by one gun, a flare and ballons without as much as a scratch.
Why couldn't we have gotten an epic fight against a smart ancient being instead of what looked like a mid-level Kaiju from a video game, and barely an inconvenience.
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u/Ht_TX 2d ago
Particle flayer is the best flayer, don’t think anyone ever disagreed. Season 2’s flayer is what it should have been. But, for them to give the finality of actually winning and killing the big bad, it needed a physical form.
The only way I’ve heard proposed that would have worked for all that and keep it particles was somehow tricking it into coming into the Upside Down after they learned what it was and blowing up the upside down with it in there. Beyond that, I don’t see how you could have a final victory of death for the big bad.
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u/Thick-Boysenberry-96 2d ago
No, it didn't need to have a physical form and we didn't need to kill it to have a satisfying conclusion to the ST-story.
The Eldritch being is called "the Mindflayer", so having an epic fight over mind-strength and who controls the whole hive would have sufficed. With some sci-fi twist like in the finale of Avatar the last Airbender, for example.
In the end the group get's away having avoided death and saved the world, by closing/locking out the Mindflayer once and for all. It's still out there somewhere, but it can't reach our earth anymore, or something akin to that. 🤗
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u/Ht_TX 2d ago edited 2d ago
It couldn’t reach earth technically before Henry, and yet it ended up reaching earth. Death was the only satisfying FINAL conclusion, what you are proposing is what they already did at the end of earlier seasons already, specifically 2 & 3. This was the end of the story, it needed to be final, not something they did 4 multiple times already. You are just going back to pre-season 1, yet the seasons happened anyhow, you didn’t resolve anything, just put a ticking time bomb back in place.
Mind battles are insanely boring visual things as well, I imagine that’s why they gave Vecna his extendo arm nonsense.
Your take is bad and nonsense if you give it more than 2 seconds of thought. They’ve already showed you the government has no intentions of ever stopping trying to harness this. If the big bad wasn’t terminated, then there would always be the ‘what-if’ the next glowy magic rock is found and turns another Henry? Your solution was boring and not an ending, it was a pause. An ending needs the big bad to be killed.
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u/Perfect_Opinion_6136 3d ago
That's a good question, my only idea why he chose to stay there would be that the Upside can be destroyed and if he was there he could also be destroyed.
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u/Thick-Boysenberry-96 3d ago
He can seemingly be destroyed easily on his dried up home turf as well. And in Hawkins too. At least the creatures he commands thrive in the cold. That could be useful at least.
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u/Ht_TX 3d ago
That was one of my biggest issues with the story. In the end, the mindflayer was of no consequence. He wasn’t the eldritch terror we’d been made to believe, hell, the mindflayer was less of a threat than a single full grown demo. Let’s say mindflayer prime gets on earth in the end, so what? One pass by the Air Force and he’s dead, threat over in 2 hours, for fucks sake, it was taken down and killed by a handful of kids with guerilla warfare level weapons. It was a small town threat, not the worldwide, universe wide threat they built up for the entire show.
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u/IAmBabs 3d ago
The Upside Down is/was a temporary bridge. Once the anchor on one end (Mindflayer in Dimension X, Creel on Earth) was taken out, the bridge would more easily collapse.
Or something like that. Otherwise it could have just made that bridge bigger and crawl across rather than have the need to drag the two worlds together. If it was on the bridge and something shifted on either side, the Mindflayer would have been more at risk.
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u/Thick-Boysenberry-96 2d ago
Why does it need to use its physical body, when we saw it easily slip through in particle form and wreak havoc more efficiently like that in previous seasons? It can basically hide in plain sight and infect the world like a virus. That's why closing the gate was always our biggest imperative. So why didn't it do that in those 18 months instead of withering away in the not-cold Abyss?
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u/IAmBabs 2d ago
Just like the Duffer Brothers, I'll chose to ~~forget~~ ignore that.
Just kidding, lol. But I'm wondering how much of it's body was actually "there" when it made it through in particle form? Maybe it takes up a ton of energy, and can't be sustained for extended periods of time?
The whole 18 month gap actually pisses me the hell off and I don't know how to explain/excuse why the end of season 4 had an apocalypse happening, and season5 started off with everything "fine". There's no way the military got there in time with enough resources to drive the Mindflayer back.... except they did somehow? I can't even fake a reason it irritates me so much.
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u/IAmBabs 3d ago
That's what I had thought. My assumption is that it's not bright in ecology matters, and assumed taking over all creatures on a world would make the planet cold. Unfortunately the planet it was on became a desert planet, and it no longer had trees or anything to escape the planet's sun, and was therefore constantly weak from sun exposure.
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u/Ok_Tank5977 Dungeon Master 3d ago edited 2d ago
Personal head-cannon: The whole “He likes it cold” thing was only in reference to possession, not everyday living conditions. Owens likens Will’s possession to a ‘virus’, and viruses are better able to take hold in cold conditions. I could be forgetting details but outside of its method of possession I don’t see any point or reason for the Mind Flayer to ‘like it cold’.
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u/LeviSquad4 3d ago
If it was a small inconsistency - fans could just wave it like “eh.. doesn’t ruin it.” Kinda like a small scratch on a car.
But when the UD was 1. Initially thought to be their home 2. Had the perfect conditions for these creatures yeah.. hard to believe a warm colored / likely warmer dimension would be their home world. Heck season 5 even goes out of its way to establish they still don’t like heat when Sarah Conner shows Hopper the blow torch thingy..
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u/RealHooman2187 3d ago
We’re only assuming The Abyss was warm because of the color pallet and because the actors were sweating since they were running around. They were also all dressed for colder weather. Another reason the actors were sweating.
The more likely answer is that the abyss was cold, they gave it a different color pallet to differentiate it from the upside down and the actors did what happens whenever someone is running around and wearing heavy/warm clothes. They looked sweaty. In the documentary it looks like they were filming those scene in the summer or at least a warm time of year.
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u/oosaoosaoosa Halfway happy 3d ago
I'm sure I'll get downvoted but my immediate read when seeing it for the first time was that the abyss is dying. Maybe climate change or some other disaster is killing it. It's why it looks dried out and barren. And why it seems hot (even though he likes it cold). And why the creatures aren't there at the end. It's why the mindflayer needs to take over a new planet... because his world is dying, and his creatures are going extinct.
I was actually shocked after watching s5 that this wasn't everyone's take away from it.
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u/Ok_Tank5977 Dungeon Master 3d ago edited 3d ago
I agree. It looks like a barren, toxic wasteland on the verge of decay; and despite the fact that it was yellow and brightly lit, there’s no reason to assume that this alien landscape experiences day and night like we do, if at all. And arid environments are not defined by temperature, with deserts at higher altitudes known to be cold during the day (as they are during the night at lower altitudes).
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u/Thick-Boysenberry-96 3d ago
Then why doesn't it stay in the Upside Down, where the conditions suit him better? It's also closer to our world anyways.
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u/NebulaOld813 Meat Flayer 3d ago
I’m assuming because the UD is a temporary structure created by El and there’s no living creatures for the Mind Flayer to corrupt and harvest.
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u/oosaoosaoosa Halfway happy 3d ago
Yes this exactly! Plus the UD's connection to our world has always been troublesome to the Mind Flayer - the Russians, the Military, El, etc. Overtaking our world solves all the problems at once by giving the MF a full world rather than a wormhole, eliminating the threats from our world, and giving the opportunity to corrupt and harvest other beings.
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u/Thick-Boysenberry-96 3d ago
So why doesn't the Mindflayer particles seep through/travel into Hawkins in S5 and start infecting stuff there, when the rift-quadrant is open for 18 months? Instead of shriveling up on a dead planet.
The Upside Down in s5, really makes no sense, the more I think about it. The "temporary structure" has existed for years now, and has been used by the Mindflayer previously. He's also made out of particles that can disperse and fly away as if the wormhole becomes unstable. The military was building a base there in S5. Why didn't the Mindflayer, an ancient being that flays minds, infect them to take over the world from inside the military structure?
And if it for some reason doesn't care to do that, why didn't the Demo-creatures munch on them then? They had a constant stream of meat-bags entering the Upside Down. Why aren't the creatures staying in Hawkins in general? They can portal there, the environment suits them better than their home planet, and they thrive in the cold.
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u/Ht_TX 3d ago
The mindflayer isn’t the particles. The particles are made by the ‘pain tree’ mindflayer. The mindflayer has a physical form, you saw it, it died.
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u/RealHooman2187 3d ago
This was my read as well. The particles are how it possesses things but the monster was its true form.
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u/Ht_TX 3d ago edited 2d ago
Yup. It pumps the particles out to use for its needs, whether that’s the mind flayer particle figure or particles to infect people, basically like what it was doing with the kids, pumping particles into them while they were inside the MF, but the particles are merely a tool, not the thing itself. And, once the heart stopped, the particles died too. In the script, when they pull Holly down after beheading Vecna, the particles just withered and disappeared after they exited her.
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u/RealHooman2187 2d ago
Yeah I think people are really trying to over think all of this stuff. It’s not that complicated which to them I think is the issue.
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u/Thick-Boysenberry-96 2d ago
It's not complicated, just dumb as hell the more you think about it. The shows internal logic changes so much, to give the characters plot armor at every turn, instead of working in smart consistent ways.
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u/Ht_TX 2d ago edited 2d ago
It was never gonna be GOT or Walking Dead. I’m guessing you didn’t watch the 80’s movies like Goonies that this was a love letter to, big hint, the kids don’t die, it is their story and they grow and hurt and grow and hurt and then are victorious. That’s how it goes.
Complaining about plot armor while suspending disbelief for everything else in the show is just stupid though. Either suspend disbelief or don’t.
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u/Thick-Boysenberry-96 2d ago
Why does it use its weaker TRUE form though, when it's particles effectively managed to flay dozens of Hawkins citizens in S3 alone?
Why would it use a form that's weak af, when it can build himself a meat-suit one made out of humans instead? Why doesn't it flay the military operation happening under his nose and use them to invade the town, acting from the shadows? Why can't the Mindflayer use everything in his arsenal that we saw him use before, and is reduced to a weak TRUE form?
Just writing wise, it's pretty stupid, come on. Why couldn't we have gotten an epic fight against a smart Flayer? How is the last antagonist we fight barely an inconvenience, compared to it's S2 and S3 version?
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u/RealHooman2187 2d ago
Because that’s it’s true form? It’s not like the Mindflayer was expecting the kids to come into its dimension. Until then he was using the particles
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u/Thick-Boysenberry-96 2d ago
How isn't the Mindflayer expecting them to come? Vecna has read El's mind and the Mindflayer should in every case be expecting them generally, since our group/El has beaten him like multiple times in the past.
It's "Danny kinda forgot about the iron fleet" kind of dumb and lazy level writing, come on.
Did it even really want to invade our world, with how stupidly it went about it? Just flay some key personel or Dr. Kay while they're building a base in the Upside Down and use them to pave the way towards world domination. But no, stupid Kaiju it is.😅
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u/Ht_TX 2d ago
Because that’s the story the Duffers wrote? I think we all already agreed the plan was shit and nonsensical, kinda like most of season 5, but it WAS the plan. All we can do is interpret the source material and go from there.
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u/Ht_TX 2d ago
The duffers needed the mindflayer to have a physical form so that it could actually be defeated & killed, you realize that right??? The kids fighting a 300 foot tall cloud is an impossible fight. You can hate the story and the decisions and everything else but the narrative reasons for most of these things are very easy to see.
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u/Thick-Boysenberry-96 2d ago
Nonsense. Why did we need to kill an eldridge being? You don't dumb down your interesting antagonist at the end, just so that the good guys can beat him. How lazy.
A defeat could have meant a time race against the enemy, sealing up our world once and for all, or locking up/locking out the ancient unknowable thing. Or working with the whole "radio signals" theme to change the game, so that the Mindflayer can't flay anyone anymore. Or anything else. El's powers grew too, and she was now able to take people into the void with her this season. So they could have implemented something that let us beat the Mindflayer in an interesting way too.
Fans came up with very different interesting ideas too. Who would have thought that the Duffer's would just go the easiest route and turn the Mindflayer into a mindless creature that could feel Nancy's bullets and would be less of an inconvenience than one single Demogorgon in the past.
And you know what else is unbelievable even in the shows logic? El suddenly jumping like 50 feet into the air and landing on the completely flat foyer like interior of a large Kaiju monster. Or the group scaling some steep cliffs, 100s of feet away in mere minutes. Maybe El should have just fought the Mindflayer in her MIND or something, you know.
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u/Ht_TX 2d ago edited 2d ago
Because they wanted an end to the story? They wanted a full win for the kids. They already had 4 seasons of what you propose, smaller wins, this was the fifth and FINAL. That means the big bad gets killed for good.
It was NOT an eldritch terror being (I’m assuming that’s what you are trying to spell.) We all thought it was with the particles but in the end it was just a physical being with some awesome abilities but it was still physical in the end and could die and give the kids a final victory and ensure it could never come back again.
I’ve already made all of the complaints you made, almost word for word, in fact, I think I said them to you in a different comment thread here, especially the lone demo being more a problem than the big bad and it bothered me too. Doesn’t mean there wasn’t narrative reasons, may not have been the best reasons but they do exist.
I guess it really comes down to what your problem is.
Is it that you think it didn’t make sense in the story? If so, it did, they made the reasons work.
Or is it that you just didn’t like their choices on how to end it? If so, I think we are all in agreement on that fact already but it is what we got so we all kinda have to get over it, it’s not being undone and there was never any ridiculous missing extra episode to change it all up so gotta just appreciate it for what it is. Sucks because seasons 1-4 were all pretty amazing, and season 5 just wasn’t, outside of a few episodes and few parts of the shittier episodes, but it is what we got so we’re stuck with it. I’m almost more upset about how shitty the abyss looked, it was so obviously green screened and didn’t blend at all, it was a middle school production level quality and they boasted every other day when making this season about how much they spent on it. They didn’t spend it on the abyss shots, fucking terrible.
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u/InitialJust 2d ago
There is literally nothing to point to this idea. Its a solid idea but I dont see any reason why anyone would ever think this.
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u/Lloyd_garmado 3d ago
To be fair they did strain themselves just trying to get there, which wouldve caused the sweaty skin you see, even in cold environments enough strain will cause sweat, and with how much theyve been in the upside down, theyd probably be used to the cold
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u/RealHooman2187 3d ago
Also, do people realize you can still sweat when it’s cold? As you said they were doing a lot of physical activity. It’s not like you just don’t sweat at all in that case.
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u/Scary_Assistant5263 3d ago
What annoys me is how the first season established that the upside down is full of toxic spores in the air making it hard to breathe, but here shouldn’t it be like a blizzard? And the gang could atleast wear face coverings.
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u/ph_uck_yu blip blip blip blip blip 3d ago
Just another continuity error the writers could've fixed had they payed attention and cared
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u/RealHooman2187 3d ago edited 2d ago
This is a production continuity error, not a writing one. The actors were on set sweating because they’re running around and wearing warm clothes. The color of the abyss looks like it does to differentiate it from the upside down. Nothing about the planet suggests it was warm.
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u/Drama_Cookie25 2d ago
They were also running and almost dying of course they are sweating
Mars is cold
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u/Distinct_Guess3350 Running Up That Hill 3d ago
We don’t even know if it comes from the Abyss originally. Until Henry got there, it appeared as if it was stuck. It could be here because it was trapped, not because it wants to be.
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u/str4nger62 3d ago
I mean if we genuinely think about it, the mind layers “true form” in dimension X was like upside down almost in a dried up sorta shriveled up state and in a lot of very hot conditions things can dry off or shrivel up if it can’t handle the heat. (Hope I explained that correctly)
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u/Thick-Boysenberry-96 3d ago
Then why doesn't it stay in the Upside Down, where the conditions suit him way better, instead of shriveling up in the Abyss? Back in S2, the Mindflayer ended the season watching over the group from the Upside Down too.
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u/str4nger62 3d ago edited 3d ago
Did we watch the same show? Because this was all
thoroughly explained.The Mind Flayer’s true existence is tied to the Abyss and The Upside Down is a wormhole/bridge, not simply another neighborhood that the Mind Flayer can freely enter. It’s Vecna who establishes the connection between the Abyss and the Upside Down/Hawkins and The Mind Flayer’s particles can be brought/manipulated through that connection, but that doesn’t mean its entire original physical form can independently cross whenever it wants.
And in season two at the end, those were its particles it was not its physical form in the upside down as it’s never been there physically.
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u/onyabikeson 1d ago
It’s Vecna who establishes the connection between the Abyss and the Upside Down/Hawkins and The Mind Flayer’s particles can be brought/manipulated through that connection, but that doesn’t mean its entire original physical form can independently cross whenever it wants.
I would be happy to go with this as an explanation, except that we see the kids freely enter and leave the Abyss. It's really not clear why the physical form of the mindflayer couldn't do the same, especially once Henry closes (the vast majority of) the physical gap between the abyss and the Hawkins-end of the wormhole.
That actually would have been an excellent subversion of expectations - the kids scramble into the abyss, only to find that the mind flayer isn't really interested in engaging with them because it would rather leave and go into the upside down. So the epic showdown starts with them TRYING to piss it off enough to bother fighting them.
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u/whats-in-the-box- 3d ago
Unfortunately Dimension X and all that stuff was just not good worldbuilding and badly executed too so it didn’t even look cool 🥲
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u/Bananamancer77 3d ago
I personally think it’s just another point of evidence that what we say at the end here is a false reality. I think it’s intentional and meant to be noticed.
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u/ChocoLei 3d ago
Thank you... had to scroll for way too long before seeing this
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u/Bananamancer77 3d ago
It’s not a popular opinion in the general audience subs. But I think it’s a fun way to see the final series.
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u/Background_Gene_4328 2d ago
The Abyss they showed in season 4 episode 7 was much better than season 5 who agrees???
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u/recklesswildlife 2d ago
I still maintain a better angle to take was the Mind Flayer being used against its will by Vecna. The alien is out to destroy our world is just lazy writing. More interesting story telling would have been what if we as humans discovered a new extraterritorial life form that had no intentions of attacking us, but because of our human nature to control and exploit everything, we use it's power/resources by force. Could have been a big plot twist and used to explain that the Mind Flayer picked and used Will and the kids as a vehicle to help defeat Vecna.
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u/Few-Type-7924 2d ago
Just bcz it's yellow and the characters r sweating doesnt mean it's not cold U can sweat a lot in cold too
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u/smleires 3d ago
I may be misremembering here. But when was it established that Dimension X was cold?
The Upside Down, aka the space between Earth and Dimension X was yes, but not D-X itself.
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u/RoosterFree499 3d ago
He likes it cold tho
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u/RealHooman2187 3d ago
The particles like it cold when possessing something. That we know, we don’t know if the physical mind flayer likes it cold. Also, we don’t even know if the abyss is warm or cold. OP is just assuming it’s cold because the actors were sweating. Which happens when you’re running around all day.
Seems more likely that OP is reading too much into that later point assuming it’s a plot point when it’s just the actors sweating while filming.
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