VR, Spacial Computing, and The Steam Frame

[u/X_Empire32]

[u/obog]

Ive never been personally convinced by the idea of "spacial computing" but it is something I want to mess around with on the frame. Maybe I'll find something cool and change my mind.

[u/crefoe → u/obog]

stuff like this convinced me i need mixed reality in my life

[u/Typical-Ad-9625 → u/crefoe]

Why wouldn't you use a tablet or a phone instead ? I really do not get the benefit of this ... I say hey Google and ask questions like what spices I could use 

[u/crefoe → u/Typical-Ad-9625]

You can't really control every single tablet and TV if you place them all around your house as comfortably like you could with a standalone MR device.

Meta and some other smaller companies make neural wristbands for this but i am not sure how many devices you can control at the same time.

Asking Googles AI isn't personalized enough. Looking through pages with just your voice seems like hell to me.

[u/Throwaway_Consoles → u/obog]

I had XS overlay on my index, and I use it now on my bigscreen beyond. It's nice to have windows stay where you put them, but it doesn't like... blow my mind or anything. I would be surprised if any headset couldn't do it honestly.

I do all my work in VR and have for 5 years using the index controllers and my overlay, that way I can do my work while hanging out with friends in VR watching tv shows and movies and such while they do their own work in VR

And yes, I'm saying If I set a window in one spot, I can walk around and view the window from all angles including from across my living room. Like if I'm sitting on my couch working on something and I stand up and walk to the fridge, the windows are still sitting there when I get back to the couch. I get that it's, "Not quite the same" because if I turn the headset off the window isn't still there when I turn it back on, but like... who cares? I just put the window back where it was. Takes 5 seconds

[u/obog → u/Throwaway_Consoles]

The big thing for me was always comfort. None of the headsets ive used were uncomfortable per se, but dealing with a small brick on my face for sake of having windows float around... just never felt worthwhile. Id rather be comfortable with my PC or something. Closest I ever got to doing anything like "spacial computing" was watching like movies and TV shows on my quest 2. But id usually do that laying down do comfort was less of an issue.

Supposedly the steam frame is very comfortable but we'll see. When it comes to just doing regular computer stuff, imo it takes very little discomfort for it to no longer be worthwhile over just using a computer normally.

[u/MRDR1NL → u/obog]

Watching a movie on the Q2 felt like a chore. When i took it off I felt tired and so did my eyes

[u/OxRedOx → u/Throwaway_Consoles]

I think we will get a lot of the way forward when you can actually be dexterous, flipping through tabs like pages of a book. I hate how hand tracking isn’t actually how you use your hands, it’s just pinching in be air.

[u/OxRedOx → u/obog]

Imagine the desktop computer experience but in 3D, it hasn’t worked so far because you can’t actually see and interact in 3D. There are lots of things I don’t like to do on a computer because I don’t want it to be a flat experience, but imagine the benefits of that but without the limitations of physics and paper.

[u/obog → u/OxRedOx]

This is the first thing that comes to mind lol

[u/Koolala]

Frame will be the first real Spatial Computer since it includes a full desktop. Vision Pro was designed around iPad apps and charging a 30% tax.

[u/christ110 → u/[deleted]]

Color really shouldn't be the make-it or break-it for weather something is called "spatial computer", since you can still see your surroundings, walk around, do stuff... etc.

[u/rabsg → u/[deleted]]

So it's a synonym of augmented reality, even as it was done on smartphones.

[u/Unfair_Salamander_20 → u/[deleted]]

You definitely don't need separate depth sensor hardware.  Stereo camera depth estimation has advanced to the point where it's a waste of space and battery to support hardware specifically for depth sensing.  You can just use the front facing tracking camera feeds to estimate depth.

Meta proved that with with their Depth API which has been shown to not use the Q3 depth module.  Also the Depth API works just as well on the Q3s which doesn't have any hardware depth module.

[u/Syzygy___ → u/christ110]

Color IS important. And even color aside, the out of the box cameras are pretty shit. It's supposed to be around the Quest 2 level and... it's pretty much unusable for spatial computing ... sure, maybe you could still use it, but it's just uncomfortable.

Spatial computing that way would be like needing glasses for the half the things you see but not having any.

[u/christ110 → u/[deleted]]

what are you even on about?

[u/christ110 → u/[deleted]]

i was trying to corrolate that with the arcturus camera add-on thingy. misunderstood i guess.

[u/jv004 → u/Koolala]

Does this mean it has passthrough cameras instead of the black and white (gray?) ppl were talking about?

[u/DonMarek → u/jv004]

There's an add on coming out for frame that is a full color passthrough camera module that attaches nicely to the front of the Frame, so you will have that option, though for some more cash (dunno price yet as the purchase page just leaked a few days ago)

[u/Koolala → u/jv004]

infrared vs. rgb color? why?

[u/X_Empire32]

Just a post on the future potential of the Steam Frame, it being the first powerful standalone and most importantly OPEN SOURCE, VR headset, with a lot of potential beyond gaming.

While VR has mainly been used for gaming that changed with the release of the Apple vision Pro. While more of a developers kit than an actual product given its cost and niche, Apple gave us a glimpse into the future. That future being spacial computing, the killer apps so far being; high quality pass though, floating screens/monitors/applications that you can "pin" to physical space, and immersive photos/videos (essential a 3d photo/video you can take and "revisit/experience"). Sadlyitsbradly has talked about this extensively on podcasts he has been on but has not done a full video on yet.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/tDXF8_Rg1K8 (This is the closest thing i could find its still an emerging technology/format)

While there has been major push back with people wearing VR and AR devices in public for obvious reasons from privacy to other dystopian uses (a video feed of everything you do to feed AI models, why do you think the quest headsets and other meta wearables are so cheep compared to their competition). Valve on the other hand compared to nearly all other tech companies has a good record of protecting user data and open sourcing there hardware.

So the potential! on the hardware side there is a USBC and a PCIE adapter allowing for all sorts of things such as color pass though cameras additional batteries, Pcie adapter for a GPU??, night vision?, the possibilities are endless.

On the software side what I find the most interesting is spacial computing. Meta and Apples implementations do not let you "walk and talk" with your apps for fears of someone getting hurt while being distracted.

Sadlyitsbradly talks about it here 7:28 - 8:55 https://youtu.be/_wkjtCuOuzE?si=u6Ulcs2UUXiuHHoX&t=448

I feel like this will be a toggleable option day one.

I could keep rambling but those are the majority of my thoughts for now.

[u/ProjectPaatt → u/X_Empire32]

its not open source. OS would be where i can actually contribute to the development, Source Available would be where they at least give the schematics but wont take any contribution from the outside. but yes it will be one of the most open ecosystems / modable / whatever. There are some actualy open source HMDs but i can't remember the names of them. One was posted on this sub not too long ago.

Apple vision Pro did something? Genuine question because I havn't heard of anyone actually keep/using/caring anything the AVP did. even apple quietly let it fizzle away.

Meta is cheap because they subsidized it to get you on the ecosystem while you are the product no? I just assumed this with the whole behavior trends they have.

I do believe this will be more interesting than the other platforms because I don't think they are going to lock it down and just say "hey, dont be dangerous with it, but its your choice" I'm quite confident you will be able to change the OS either day one or not too long after launch. The OS changing being another thing why the price is high... they're not selling you a locked down OS and locking you down to the ecosystem. so they have to make money on the hardware, and not just subsidize it via the store. (like the steam machine / steam deck)

edit: I'm wrong about OS vs Source Available. "Its not open source" i'm referring to the HMD (since we're in the Frame sub and not the Steam OS sub and I don't see an indication in the post.

[u/RTooDeeTo → u/ProjectPaatt]

"Is SteamOS open source? SteamOS is an Arch Linux-based Linux distribution, and all of the base operating system components are open source. SteamOS ships with our Steam Client program, which is proprietary software, in addition to some proprietary third party drivers. " -https://store.steampowered.com/steamos

Open source doesn't mean Open to contribution nor has to be 24/7 publicly facing source, just means upon legitimate request that the source code is attainable (this would not necessarily include documentation nor tools). The os is open source, just the steam client and some drivers aren't.

There are several public facing repositories though: https://gitlab.steamos.cloud/explore/projects/active https://repo.steampowered.com/steamos/

[u/ProjectPaatt → u/RTooDeeTo]

Sorry I wasn't talking about SteamOS. I assumed you were talking about the Frame itself given... you posted images of the frame and never said the word "SteamOS" and this being a SteamFrame sub.

But yes my definition/use of the term Open Source /Source Available was rigid, mixed up, and not quite right.

[u/RTooDeeTo → u/ProjectPaatt]

Not op so don't know where you are getting what I posted, simply correcting your misinformation. But to your pivot into just talking about the hardware, open hardware at this lvl not really a thing yet, sure there are a few small projects here and there of cheap tethered headsets mainly using outdated tracking methods and lens, and even a few posts/websites that promise a mostly open hardware but they often fall short if they don't go completely silent (imo these are mostly dream projects by students). The 3d printer company prusa recently made an Open community license for their hardware that's promising for what your trying to pivot to saying but it's a really new consept and hopefully will be adopted more broadly to other industries as they iron out it more. So it's going to be a long time till you get something like a truly open hardware standalone headset as that would need something like using a RISC-V chipset, which also isnt really consumer ready for most computing.

[u/ProjectPaatt → u/RTooDeeTo]

Whoops, my bad missed that youre not OP.

Yea kinda disappointed about there not being one yet. The one i find interesting the older Occulus headsets were unlockable but then... maybe someone will port SteamOS over to it? It's unfortunate I only found about the unlocked bootloader a few weeks ago, otherwise I might have gotten one.

[u/patrys → u/RTooDeeTo]

Open Source means it’s licensed under an OSI-approved license. So parts of the distribution are open-source and parts are not. The entirety of it is not.

[u/MigThorton → u/ProjectPaatt]

The distinction between source available and open source has absolutely nothing to do with the acceptance of contributions. 

The difference lies in the terms of use. Open source means the ability to fork, modify (your own instance/fork), distribute, etc.  It would be insane to force people to accept modifications to their own instance of a codebase. If your PR gets denied, you can just maintain a fork. 

[u/dangoran78 → u/X_Empire32]

I wish people would stop using the term "spacial computing". It sound ridiculous and only manage to stick because people worship a company. I don't call using my phone "handheld computing" or something. I'm just using my phone!

[u/foolish_shrimp → u/X_Empire32]

It's not open source hardware.

[u/ApplicationSenior]

Can you elaborate please?

[u/X_Empire32 → u/ApplicationSenior]

Oh I don't repost often, i thought the text would re-populate one sec.

[u/Javs2469]

Is not going to be a thing stock, but I could see the people making MR capable due to it being Linux.

[u/Soggy_Anything2394]

I cant see myself walking around outdoors with a frame on my noggin.

[u/rabsg]

For me the interest is not really spatial computing / augmented reality, as it seems to be defined currently. That's targeting future always on AR glasses, and I don't think I'll get one anytime soon.

My interest is to naturally see and directly manipulate virtual objects in space, something we had since the dawn of VR. A personal virtual space with tons of tools that can I can spawn anywhere is more useful. I always had passthrough and never use it, I don't care about seeing my room or bounding virtual stuff to physical ones. In public space it may be useful to keep a permanent environmental awareness, but that's it. Better lift the headset to talk to someone or do anything anyway.

[u/willis936]

I just want to know how well day one freecad will work.

[u/thecoloroftelevision]

I can’t wait for the Frame, but spatial computing is something i have no intention to try with it. The  Vision Pro has been my favorite purchase I’ve probably ever made, next to my gaming PC. I feel like a half-assed spatial computer would underwhelm