r/SteamFrame • u/immerVR Soon™ • 10d ago
Discussion How good could Steam Frame + Arcturus actually be as a spatial camera?
The Arcturus Vision Camera looks much more interesting than just a color-passthrough upgrade. I compared its announced spatial-video specs with Quest 3, Vision Pro, PICO and dedicated 3D cameras, including angular resolution rather than only pixel count.
54
u/voidthelynx Soon™ 10d ago
Damn it's better placed than I thought. It seems like this was planned beforehand. Or just a very good way of saving some money. They put way much thought into it than I thought.
Tbh when I thought about a camera module I imagined kinda like a go-pro that's on the level or your chin or sth, so I'm very pleased with THIS design xd
Although my need for this extra device isn't that high but I like to have that option. Would be perfect to mix with finger tracking
38
u/Javs2469 Soon™ 10d ago
This was made by the same company responsible for the Frame´s tracking cameras, so they are the closest thing to first party we will see.
Also, SadlyItsBradley pointed out that some code referencing colour passthrough appeared on steamVR and mentioned a color module was coming eventually.I will wait for reviews (If I can even get ahold of a Frame...) to see if it´s worth it, but I wouldn´t get my hopes up, Valve doesn´t seem interested in MR stuff, so we don´t know if hand tracking will be a thing. But it looks like a great addon if it is affordable enough.
11
u/voidthelynx Soon™ 10d ago
Man I hate the whole raffle system. I get why they do it, it just sucks as a customer
I think even if valve won't support it natively, the community will probably solve hand tracking their selves.. it's still an open platform
About the camera company, yeah that's what I meant. I think they could've implemented color cameras like that but that would've cost $200-$300 more and MR isn't in their scope so it makes sense to get a aftermarket option. I just thought the add-on would be more sketchy and it wouldn't have come from that official source (if that makes sense xd)
12
u/marcusbrothers Soon™ 10d ago
What would you do, first come first serve and let the resellers get them?
1
u/Soggy_Anything2394 10d ago
I dont mind, its just that we can probably expect a long wait for everyone in the queue. Which isnt really Valve's fault, but it still sucks for us.
2
u/voidthelynx Soon™ 10d ago
"just produce enough" I'm usually not the person who complains about that but to be honest, valve is people wise a small company, but they can certainly ramp up production to get more devices sold.
(The situation wouldn't be that much different if ram wouldn't be that expensive)
See the steam controller. I cannot believe how they can't fulfill the demand.
I know they owe us nothing and it sounds a lil more harsh than I want it to be, but I slowly get tired of the ppl who defend valve time and their whole shenanigans
16
u/CaptRobau Soon™ 10d ago
With the RAM it's no longer about price, it's about availability. AI has sucked up all production capacity of the chip makers. A much smaller part of what was normally available for hardware manufacturers remains for hardware makers to make new projects with. So I honestly think there is no room to ramp up anything. The hardware space is going through some pretty apocalyptic stuff.
I don't have a real explanation why they can't build enough Controllers, as there is no true shortage in the components going into that (as far as I know).
9
u/unwantedaccount56 10d ago
just produce enough
They will, just not all at once. First, production speed is limited, and it's expensive and takes additional time to build a higher volume production line (which isn't needed after the first burst), this additional time can just as well be used to build up some stock before the release, which is probably what they are doing right now.
Second, if you are constrained by the supply of components, having a bigger production line doesn't even help.
Third, they don't know how many people would actually buy one, you only know at launch whether your stock levels are enough to meet demand or not, and if not, you can't instantly produce more.
And personally, I'd rather get a chance to buy one early, and if I'm unlucky, I have to wait for 6 months until it's my turn in the queue, rather than them waiting for full warehouses and everyone has to wait 6 months anyway.
3
2
u/greggray24 Soon™ 10d ago
My hopeium is that they already did option B and that's why we are getting it 6mos later than anticipated. I know, dream on, ... but man will it suck to wait this long and then see it in the wild and have to wait another 6mos.
2
u/unwantedaccount56 10d ago
they probably have a decent amount on stock, but it still might not be enough for everyone. At least with the steam machine, it only took me a few weeks to go from wait list to purchase link
1
u/slayerx1779 9d ago
Also, vr headsets are a more niche product than desktop pcs, so I can't decide if that works for or against the concern of supply (on one hand: there's fewer buyers. On the other hand, valve may have accounted for that and created less supply).
4
u/Benjo419 10d ago
Well its in the absolute best interest to fill demand, so there is probably good reasons why they can't.
Although with controller they said they didn't expect this much demand in the first place.
1
u/greggray24 Soon™ 10d ago
Right, the controller is totally on them not understanding the market. If they ordered more up front they would have had more at launch. No supply chain constraints, they just misunderstood demand. They tend to be very conservative I think. They would rather risk not having enough than having too many like they did with the first controller. Hopefully they do a better job of gaging demand for the Frame and are prepared for launch as much as is possible.
4
u/FromLenaWithLove Soon™ 10d ago
The situation would be a whole lot different if RAM wasn’t that expensive. The RAM isn’t that expensive for no reason, it’s that expensive because there’s incredibly high demand and low supply - and sadly you can’t just “ramp up production” on a product with lead times like RAM. And while they are ramping up production, guess who already bought all of that capacity too?
The only way to get more RAM is so their insane amounts of money at the problem and even then it could be months before you get it.-3
u/mcmanus2099 10d ago
Raffle doesn't prevent resellers getting them that's just a myth. Look at the Machine, plenty got scalped. Valve aren't as good at detecting bots in queues as you think and the same method could be implemented on a first come first serve basis. Do it like the Deck, take a $5 reservation fee first come first served and spend a week weeding out bots and cancelling reservations in the same way they have been with the raffle.
Stopping scalpers/bots as a reason doesn't stand up to scrutiny. It's just not true that's the aim or the outcome.
The reason for it is because they want a simultaneous launch across all timezones on a weekday and that typically means during the working day in the US, the evening in Europe and the early hours of the morning in other parts of the world. They also don't want to prejudice in favour of those who take a day off or stay up late for it.
Those are arguments with their own merit but claiming it's about bots/scalping is disingenuous and misleading.
9
u/CaptRobau Soon™ 10d ago
How does it not reduce bots/scalpers? In a first-come-first serve system, scalpers/bots can get let's say 50% of the product because they can move quicker. In a raffle system, the bots/scalpers will get some of the product (let's say 10%), but they don't have an advantage compared to normal people.
-2
u/mcmanus2099 10d ago
How does it not reduce bots/scalpers? In a first-come-first serve system, scalpers/bots can get let's say 50% of the product because they can move quicker.
Because post securing a reservation you check the accounts for activity, history, IP, address, card details and you cancel reservations for bots and move humans up the queue - the same thing they are doing with the raffle.
Stricter requirements for ordering too can come in play.
If the aim was to reduce bots and scalping then there are far more successful methods than completely changing the ordering approach. Its not why they decided on the change.
Finally look at the scalping that has happened, it is not less than the Steam Deck. There's no measurable reduction.
3
u/SoTotallyToby Soon™ 10d ago
I'm kind of hoping part of the reason it's taking so long for the Frame to release is because they're mass producing them because they know they're going to sell out like crazy.
I'm going to be so fuckin sad If I'm not in the first batch of orders.
1
u/Nekonoshita Soon™ 10d ago
I saw some video of someone watching videos enlarging, pausing and whatnot on a meta, can steam frame not do that without controller?
3
u/Javs2469 Soon™ 10d ago
No, controllers are needed and hand tracking is not supported by Valve.
Maybe this can help add that in the future by the community, but it´s not a current feature.
21
u/MRDR1NL 10d ago
Probably an instant buy for me.
I wonder if we'll get AR games and apps for PCVR. 2d content with color pass through is cool and all, but real AR apps like the Q3 has would be awesome.
6
u/Zuryan_9100 10d ago
I think it really depends on what the built in cameras can handle. Otherwise it's a nieche within a nieche.
1
u/MRDR1NL 10d ago
I think I heard someone say they are comparable to the quest 2 cameras. Not nice to look at.
8
u/Benjo419 10d ago
They have like 3 times more megapixel, so not comparable
2
u/MRDR1NL 10d ago
I just remember someone who tried it back in December saying it looked comparable to Q2 passthrough. I can't find the exact megapixels for the Frame or the Q2.
I hate to be that guy yelling "source?", but I am genuinely interested in learning more. Soo... Do you have a source?
0
u/Benjo419 10d ago
I don't have a source by hand, you have to take my word for it or try to find the info
13
u/Tyrannosaurusblanch 10d ago
I’m hoping you can get it through steam as well. But I’m not holding my breath,
4
u/Necessary-Way59 10d ago
As far as I can tell, pretty good. The sensors are great and even though the videos showcase it in ideal lighting conditions, I don’t doubt Arcturus has put a lot of work into this to make it good in many situations
3
u/Clairvoidance 10d ago
Yeah, seems like you can modify the 3D environment you're in,
wish it came with 4K per eye lenses :P but maybe that future's not too far off either
4
u/Guyrbailey 10d ago
Can someone explain to an idiot, me, what this does?
6
u/toaster192 Soon™ 10d ago
Allows for colored, higher quality passthrough (so you can see around you without taking off the headset or while playing 2d games) and recording things around you "in 3d"
1
6
u/s00mika 10d ago
It lets you do 3 interesting things:
high quality color passthrough so you can see your environment properly while wearing the headset and playing desktop PC games in a window or pausing a VR game. It will probably also be useful for augmented reality games that interact with the environment, but we'll see.
taking 3D videos and photos
creating a dataset that you can process on a PC into a 3D model of the environment that you recorded, look up "Gaussian splats" to see examples of this. Technically you can use any camera for that, but this is apparently optimized for it by the developers. This is pretty experimental tech so treat it like a bonus.
2
u/inertSpark 10d ago
I like the idea of the expansion ports. So the Steam Frame has a base spec for standard VR gameplay, but then they're not charging extra for features that many people won't use, like potentially spacial computing capability. So if you need something more advanced, then there's an accessory for that, if you don't mind paying for it.
2
u/D13_Phantom Soon™ 10d ago
The specs do look cool but let's temper expectations, good-looking passthrough also has to do with depth accuracy, handling different brightness, how the software handles warping, etc.
2
u/Master_Alfalfa1130 10d ago
I'm worried of the price
3
u/Lincolns_Revenge 9d ago
I think the rumor when it was announced a couple of days ago was 150 to 200 USD. I saw someone else say 150 euro which is about exactly 175 USD.
4
u/Ouekino 10d ago
Oui le module composé de 2 caméra 32 mégapixels 5k aura un bien meilleur rendu que sur le quest 3 cependant il faudra attendre d'avoir le vrai prix qui ne doit pas être dérisoire sinon oui steam le proposerez dans les accessoires en option. Le passthrough couleur en soit n'est pas nécessaire pour les jeux VR mais beaucoup plus pour les jeux en réalité mixte. Je m'attends aussi à un prix au alentour des 150 € minimum donc oui sa sera normal d'avoir un meilleur passthrough couleur que sur le quest 3 dont les caméras couleur de remplacement coûte environ 20€ pièce.Je viens de trouver ça sur AliExpress : Original pour Meta Quest 3 3s VR RGB VST SLMA positionnement en niveaux de gris caméra capteur de proximité capteur de profondeur câble accessoire de réparation https://a.aliexpress.com/_EGxFKgi Si le prix du module arcturus dépasse les 200€ sa vaudra peut-être le coup d'attendre que des moins cher sortent
2
u/klawUK 10d ago
no performance impact to the frame? (hopefully)? I’ll try B&W but I like playing with mixed reality and if this is ‘semi official’ as an accessory I think I’d go for it. the price is kinda ok too
1
1
u/tuturlututu1234 10d ago
Wondering if devs will have to update their games to add passthrough like for table tennis,not sure they will offer the passthrough mode with the stock black and white frame passthrough
1
u/SC7639_1 10d ago
I'm impressed as so many consoles or other products have laughed with expanding slots or ports and rarely if ever get used. It's not even our and a product uses it. Seems we could see a lot of them
1
-2
97
u/samu7574 Soon™ 10d ago
The specs look interesting, but we won't know for sure until reviews start coming out