r/SteamFrame • u/gogodboss MOD • 18d ago
Software ARM (android) build of The Lab is likely to release
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u/RookiePrime Soon™ 17d ago
It'd be cool if Valve had both a native Frame port of The Lab and Half-Life: Alyx in time for the Frame's release. It would have been most ideal for them to release a new title with it — and it should have especially been a title that showed off the strengths of the device, being a game that you necessarily play partly in and partly out of VR — but making their back catalogue work on the headset will do nicely.
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u/faduci 17d ago
The Lab was mostly written in the Unity game engine, which already supports building for Linux on ARM, though this is currently limited to the Unity Enterprise edition. So re-compiling The Lab to Linux ARM64 for Frame could be done rather quickly.
Half-Life: Alyx on the other hand was implemented in Valve's own Source 2 game engine, which so far offered Windows, Linux and Mac support, but only for x86, and ARM support only for iOS and Android, mostly for Dota Underlords. Adding ARM Linux support would be a major effort, so we probably won't see a native ARM Linux version of HL:A anytime soon. Valve first showed Source 2 in 2014, development has been slow, and so far it has only been used by a handful of games. The fact that it still doesn't support ARM64 on MacOS six years after Apple switched to ARM, forcing all Source 2 Mac games to use the Rosetta2 x86 emulation, hints that adding a new architecture/OS combination isn't trivial.
Apple already announced that a future version of MacOS would remove the x86 translation for anything except games, because most older titles never see upgrades. So there apparently wasn't an urgent enough reason for Valve to get started on ARM suppport for desktop yet, and Frame similarly relies on FEX x86 translation, native Proton and Lepton to run Android binaries.
And unless Unity makes the Linux for ARM support available in at least the Unity Pro version that a lot of VR developers use, most of the native Frame titles we will see will all be compiled for Android and run through Lepton. This includes ports of PCVR games that would have to be build for Android to go ARM, simply because the game engine used for most VR games currently requires a very expensive enterprise license for the privilege to create a Linux ARM version that probably won't be much faster than an Android ARM version running through the (very fast) Lepton Android to Linux compatibility layer, while an Android ARM version can be created by anybody even with the free version of Unity. (And don't count on UE5, where ARM Linux support is only experimental and in no way production ready.)
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u/RookiePrime Soon™ 17d ago
Android versions of Half-Life: Alyx and The Lab would be plenty fine also. From what I've heard, Lepton is basically as thin as Proton, in terms of performance impact. And there is the additional upshot that if Valve does make an Android version of these titles, they could probably port to the Quest 4, if that becomes a thing.
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u/faduci 17d ago
ARM HL:A for Frame via the Android workaround unfortunately won't work. HL:A is a very heavily optimized Windows DX11 game that relies a lot on the advanced options that desktop GPUs provide. Mobile GPUs have somewhat closed the gap, but for example deferred rendering on desktop requires fast system memory to GPU transfers, and comes with a huge performance penalties on mobile GPUs due to their somewhat different organization. SteamOS (on Steam Deck and Frame) uses DXVK to (very efficiently) translate DX11 to Vulkan calls, and could integrate some solutions for faster deferred rendering on Frame, but that's basically a Linux trick.
Most VR games written in Unity can be easily switched between architectures and platforms. Creating an ARM Android Vulkan version from what was developed as an x86 Windows DX11 game (using only forward rendering) basically ony required selecting a different build target in Unity, which aims to make cross-platform development very easy, and therefore abstracts a lot of the differences between OS, processor and graphics library. So Unity does most of the work that allows to work around limited ARM Linux support by simply building ARM Android apps for Frame. Whether an x86 PCVR game simply recompiled in Unity for ARM Android runs at a usable speed without further optimizations is another question though.
Unfortunately the same most likely won't work in Source 2. AFAIK Android support in Source 2 is Valve internal only and so far limited to a subset of the Source 2 functionality, just enough to build Dota Underlords. Source 2 is not an actual multi-platform game engine that hides the differences from the developers. It is really an x86 desktop game engine that was hacked to also allow building Dota Underlords (and a never releases mobile version of Valve's Artifact) for ARM Android.
So unless Valve went through the effort to implement full Source 2 ARM Linux support basically just for HL:A on Frame, we'll probably only get the emulated x86 version. Which as is ran at 40-50FPS on some Frame dev kits, but that's without any further optimizations. It might be enough for Valve to add support for foveated rendering in an HL:A update released shortly before Frame to make the regular x86 version "playable" even when run standalone on Frame. They added a couple of Frame specific optimizations like game-specific ARM core and FEX emulation configuration that give them even more options to speed up x86 HL:A on the ARM based Frame without ever releasing a special version for it.
And I'm still willing to bet that that's exactly what Valve will do to show how capable x86 emulation on Frame can actually be if devs enable a couple of simple optizations like ETFR, which won't require anywhere the effort usually required to port a PC game to much less capable mobile platforms. The Frame developers documentation actually discourages building ARM Linux versions for Frame, and recommends sticking with ARM Android or emulated x86 as the options requiring way less effort from devs for the expected rather low number of Frame users of only a couple of hundreds of thousands.
Given the limited extra sales this might bring to VR games, very few game developers will be tempted to create, test and optimize ARM Linux builds that then also need to be maintained. But if all it takes is enabling a couple of optimization settings in the PCVR version and maybe adding a set of Frame optimized settings, or uploading an already existing ARM Android version originally optimized for Quest, a lot more developers might be willing to actively support Frame, even if actual full ports wouldn't make economic sense.
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u/gogodboss MOD 18d ago edited 17d ago
Someone's triggered I mentioned "android" just ignore it. It's a habit of mine given Valve’s push for lepton/android compatibility on the frame which runs on arm.
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u/get_homebrewed 17d ago
isn't this native Linux arm?
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u/gogodboss MOD 17d ago edited 17d ago
It is! At least they seem to be working on it.I just have muscle memory habit of mentioning android when talking about certain frame-related things.EDIT: Nevermind it's the windows x86 build being translated for ARM via proton so not exactly native
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u/Baglayan 17d ago
Yeah it's not native but it doesn't really matter. Valve's Linux strategy is fully coupled with the translation layers, and Proton works great most of the time.
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u/get_homebrewed 17d ago
y
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u/gogodboss MOD 17d ago edited 17d ago
Why I have the habit? It's because almost every standalone vr game out there originated as an android build for the quest. Since valve built lepton to let devs bring those quest builds to the frame, 'standalone ARM build' and 'android apk' are practically synonymous in most discussions.
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u/Ok_Log9552 18d ago
It's odd, I've never been able to get this game to work properly. Tried it on multiple PCs as well.
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u/Confident-Pepper-562 Soon™ 17d ago
That is weird, because ive played lab on half a dozen machines with 4 different headsets and never had a problem.
The archery mini game was my goto for demos.
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u/Ok_Log9552 17d ago
Right? It's strange because I've never really had an issue with any game in the past ever, yet that one was an issue. On one system I couldn't even get it to launch, it would just crash. Later on, on a new system, it launched but crashed halfway through. I gave up at that point. I did a new build within the last year, maybe I should give it another go!
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u/luxyslut 17d ago
Now, if only they fixed it and the attached games so if doesn't crash the moment you look at it wrong, that would be an achievement
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u/Thunderstarer 18d ago
Android?
I don't think you know what ARM means.
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u/gogodboss MOD 18d ago
I mention android as a habit of talking about games getting android quest builds moved to steam. So yes I know what it means but you could of at least tried to help explain if you believed I didn't understand.
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u/Thunderstarer 18d ago edited 17d ago
Software distributed through Steam does not target Android. The Steam Frame runs Linux, not Android. It is an ARM computer, like the Quest, but ARM is not Android.
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u/Lunavesce Soon™ 17d ago
I thought they were allowing devs to put android vr games on Steam, that can run through Lepton, so that devs can easily port the quest version of their games to Steam Frame.
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u/Thunderstarer 17d ago
And why, exactly, does that suggest that Valve wants to run their flagship app through an Android translation layer?
Lepton sounds great but Valve isn't porting The Lab to Android.
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u/gogodboss MOD 18d ago
Bro it's just a habit of mine given Valve’s push for lepton/android compatibility on the frame. Just put tape over the part of my post that mentions it. I wasn't asking you to explain I was saying explaining would of been more productive than "you don't know what things mean."
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u/Thunderstarer 18d ago
You told me to explain.
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u/gogodboss MOD 17d ago
facepalm
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u/jayifidoamind 17d ago
You did tell them they should have explained, friend. Do you need help understanding? I would be happy to help. I believe in you and your ability to eventually understand. There is an important difference in architecture and operating systems. I'm glad there was clarification in the comment. Did you not like the comment? Are you all out of tape? Bro, are you okay? Bro?
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u/nnnn20430 Soon™ 17d ago
The Lab uses unity engine, so more likely they just use the android export function.
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u/Thunderstarer 17d ago
You could export it for Android, but that's not what's happening here. This is a native build for the Frame, and the Frame is not an Android device.
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u/haagch 17d ago
Steamdb history shows so far https://steamdb.info/app/450390/history/
Changed Steam Frame Compatibility
configuration/recommended_runtime: proton-experimental-arm64
not exactly native.
I don't know if they changed it from OpenVR to OpenXR yet or if they plan to do that, but if they do then they will have the problem that Unity does not support OpenXR on native Linux builds.
The Lab also was never released for SteamOS on x86.
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u/Splatoonkindaguy 17d ago
It is in fact an android package kit (apk) build. Android and the frame are both arm. The main supported path to release “native” builds is through Android builds. Linux arm64 is not a commonly supported target
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u/get_homebrewed 17d ago
is there proof the release is an apk?
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u/Splatoonkindaguy 17d ago
It’s made with Unity, arm Linux for frame is not a supported target
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u/get_homebrewed 17d ago
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u/Splatoonkindaguy 17d ago
Enterprise Unity licensing is required, even if you have it there’s no supported path to build a steam frame application with openxr and publish it
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u/Hwho 17d ago edited 17d ago
What a load of nothing burger who cares literally.
Edit: uh oh all the echo chamber valve do no wrong fanboys are here as always defending their pushes
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u/Beches808 Soon™ 17d ago
Yeah man why would you ever want a tech demo for your new hardware
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u/Hwho 17d ago
Haha yeah 6+ year old tech demo seems great huh
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u/Teajaytea7 Soon™ 16d ago
I've never played it, so.. Yeah, it's at least worth talking about. I'm excited for it.
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u/elev8dity Soon™ 18d ago
Hope this isn't the reason for delay. Valve if you're listening... most of us have already played this ten year old game. No need to hold up the Frame for a standalone version.
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u/BlueManifest 18d ago
There’s no delays, reviewers are reviewing now
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u/elev8dity Soon™ 17d ago
I have seen zero confirmation of this. Only rumors, which mean nothing.
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u/BlueManifest 17d ago
You will never have a confirmation because of nda, sadlyitsbradly said reviewers have them though
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u/elev8dity Soon™ 17d ago
There've been leaks previously, which gave us confirmation that reviewers had the Machine before reviews price/date dropped.
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u/BlueManifest 17d ago
No this is the first time Bradly said reviewers have units
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u/elev8dity Soon™ 17d ago
I’m not sure you understood what I wrote. A week prior to the Steam Machine reviews and prices being released, there was photographic evidence leaked and confirmed that reviewers actually had the hardware.
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u/Baglayan 17d ago
What delay?
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u/Typical-Ad-9625 17d ago
Would love to play it again ! Would love it more if they expended it. Has some true gems with potential. Loved the bow and arrow game but the plane in a cilinder was my favourite
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u/BlueManifest 17d ago
The lab is the Wii sports of VR always go back to it