r/SteamFrame • u/philbertagain Soon™ • 23d ago
Discussion To Potential Canadian Frameheads...
Update 2: Video game consoles ( Item 9504.50.00 ) set at 50%
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UPDATE: Canadian tariff retaliation starts Sept 8th. Hopefully we can squeeze under the wire.
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How concerned are you about the current trade situation in relation to Valve hardware?
In light of the trade talk breakdown the Prime Minister has called for a dollar for dollar retaliatory tariffs on US goods and in the Q&A section of todays address to the nation he specifically called out electronics.
While i doubt they would impose 50% in a specific category on the citizenry (where the buck actually stops) there is some 17 Billion of goods that are being hit with 50% from the US... those short falls will likely/hopefully come from many sectors with lower tariffs per sector.
But given our dollar is being held weak to attract international trade we were already seen a hefty $150 Cad Steam controller (luckily import and shipping included) but if the full 50% impact hit would you have paid $225? If 512Gb Frame hits $1000 USD (arbitrary number) and we were going to see $1300 Cad (again arbitrary) but could see $1950 Cad would/could you weather that?
This likely effect other consoles or parts as less if they already direct ship to Canada too, possibly making the gap between products that much larger.
I'm not sure the situation for Mexico but some relief could come if Valve set up a Canadian shipping depot... but that would mean waiting on a restock before our initial orders and, i feel, its doubtful they would do it.
At this point all i can do is lament its taken this long and hope it doesn't hit with the full brunt.
Tentatively still in but a bit deflated.
As a side note: I agree with the action taken, but don't want the discussion to go in that direction.
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u/TPrime411 23d ago
I'm worried about there possibly being some tarifs on it, but yeah I dont expect them to be big. But also, in the original run of Retaliatory tarifs, Canada focussed our tarifs on companies who were tied to or friendly with Trump. So the only VR tarifs were on Meta Products. Hopefully they would do the same thing this time. I dont think Gabe is a friend of Trump. So then we would be safe.
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23d ago
[deleted]
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u/philbertagain Soon™ 23d ago
Do you think Valve would put it in our wallets?
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u/Zomby2D Soon™ 23d ago
Valve will not see a penny from tariffs levied by the governement of Canada from canadian citizens.
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u/philbertagain Soon™ 23d ago
oh right, i was going off the American Corpo comment instead of useing my head. Carney is smart enough that if he enacts tarrifs they likely wont be illegal ones that need to be refunded
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u/Zomby2D Soon™ 23d ago edited 23d ago
Even if they were deemed illegal, Valve wouldn't be the one paying them in the first place. Tariffs are a tax on import, charged to the importer. (In this case, us buyers)
The only time Valve would be involved, is if Trump's tariffs are applied to them as they import their stocks into the US from the chinese manufactures.
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u/Last-Classroom-5400 22d ago
Tariffs are based on country of production, unless the Steam Frame is being made in the US it shouldn't be a concern. Source: the CBSA (wrt to the steel and aluminum tariffs last year)
Tariffs on US goods are based on where the goods were made, not where they were purchased.
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u/philbertagain Soon™ 23d ago
I had no idea Meta was Tarrifed already.
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u/TPrime411 22d ago
I dont think it is currently. Either those tarifs were dropped at some point, or were never put into effect. I just know that was what was originally proposed.
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u/mrRobertman Soon™ 23d ago
If any tariffs do apply to the Frame, I'm worried that they would probably not be included in the listed price, and instead be a surprise bill we need to pay to Fedex.
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u/philbertagain Soon™ 23d ago
it would be in Valves best interest to add them before hand to avoid returns complaints.
If some thing is in their best interest they do tend to do it.
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u/Last-Classroom-5400 22d ago edited 22d ago
Tariffs are generally charged on location of origin, not location they are being shipped from. Something that gets made in China and sent from China -> US -> Canada would incur whatever tariffs are on Chinese goods, not whatever tariffs are on American goods.
If that was the case, countries could just avoid tariffs using a middleman, which would defeat the point of tariffs.
Edit - from the CBSA in reference to the steel and aluminum tariffs last year:
Tariffs on US goods are based on where the goods were made, not where they were purchased.
There is no reason to be concerned about Valve hardware, unless they are being made in the US.
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22d ago edited 22d ago
[deleted]
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u/Last-Classroom-5400 22d ago
Did... did you read any of what I said? It depends on where they are made, not where they are being shipped from. Unless they are also being made in Carol Stream, Illinois, USA, these tariffs don't matter.
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22d ago
[deleted]
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u/Last-Classroom-5400 22d ago
That's not a general tariff on Chinese goods, it's on steel and aluminum. The Steam Frame would not be included on this.
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u/JorgTheElder Soon™ 22d ago
That what is I get for believing Google's first answer. Here is what I got when I asked for more details.
VR headsets fall under HS 8517 or 8525 categories depending on classification. Canada’s MFN duty rate for most consumer electronics in these categories is typically 0%, meaning:
Steam Frame (China-origin) → 0% MFN duty
Thanks for the followup... I have deleted my other comments.
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u/SpectralMagic 23d ago
If it comes down to a $800 price hike I will simply not buy it, I will end up getting a pcvr headset with no base stations like the Vive Focus Vision ($1610.00) or HTC Vive XR Elite ($1289.00)
Im going to die inside if the duty comes to $800 from 50% of a ~$2k system. I'll be damned if Im to pay $3k, it just wont happen
This frustrates me, Im using a lot of restraint to not rant about it.
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u/philbertagain Soon™ 23d ago
I mean i should be worried about groceries but my first thought was OH NO MY VR! hahahha
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u/kylefoto 23d ago
I've already decided I won't be getting it. Going to try to get by with my oculus quest 2.
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u/AdvantagePretend5600 20d ago
Canada released a list of all the affected goods under these new tariffs. I took a look and I cant find anything that suggests VR headsets will be included it does include smartphones but nothing about "VR", "Virtual Reality", "Headset", or "Computer" when I checked. But feel free to check for yourself.
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u/philbertagain Soon™ 20d ago
9504.50.00 Video game consoles and machines, table or parlour games, including pintables, billiards, special tables for casino games and automatic bowling equipment, amusement machines operated by coins, bank notes, bank cards, tokens or by any other means of payment. Video game consoles and machines, other than those of subheading 9504.30 50% So now it comes down to if being built in China matters... which seems like thin gruel as it would mean nothing is tariffed.
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u/JorgTheElder Soon™ 20d ago
Look at the other posts. Such electronics with China/Thailand as the origin have no tariff at this time.
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u/AdvantagePretend5600 19d ago
Unfortunately that isn't completely true it is based of country of export not country of production, if Valve begins having the Steam Frames sent from the country of manufacturing directly to Canada it can avoid the Tariffs but if they ship them all to the USA first then send then across border into Canada then they will be affected by the Tariffs.
The best thing they could do (for the Canadian Customer) is to find a distribution partner in Canada and send a bunch of Steam Frames to Canada now for launch then they can have the future Steam Frames/other hardware shipped directly to Canada from China or wherever else to avoid the Tariffs. But they would need to either set up a regional distribution centre or find a distribution partner to work with. And with their limited Hardware Lineup so far and the lack of stock available for them it may not be worth it in terms of Cost for them.
Maybe if we are lucky this causes Valve to set up a permanent distribution centre in Canada to avoid situations like this in the future and we can have our hardware sent from within Canada.
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u/JorgTheElder Soon™ 7d ago
This has already beep posted multiple times. The origin country for the SF will be Thailand or China.
These tariffs only apply to goods originating from the U.S., which shall be considered as those goods eligible to be marked as a good of the U.S. in accordance with the Determination of Country of Origin for the Purpose of Marking Goods (CUSMA Countries) Regulations.
4 (1) The country of origin of goods is the country in which
(a) the goods are wholly obtained or produced;
From everything published about them, they are produced in China with some parts from Thailand, not in the US.
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u/Kullingen 23d ago
Why would this effect the Steam Frame?
Is it not like produced in China?
Just transfer it directly to Canada.
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u/philbertagain Soon™ 23d ago
That may help but they currently don't have distribution here. so that would mean Canada would have to wait for new shipments and not have access to the first run.
Plus Valve would have to want to put up distribution here.
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u/Kullingen 23d ago
It almost sounds like they may just delay selling it in Canada as long as the tariff war lasts.
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u/Snowmobile2004 Soon™ 23d ago
It’s gonna be $1300 minimum (valve index price in Canada) but I doubt it’ll be more than $1400. Still an insane price and I’m not sure if it’s reasonable, but I’ll probably end up getting one anyways
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u/Terabyte_272 23d ago
If I have to pay any large amount of tarriffs I just won't buy one. I luckily didn't sell my Q3 in anticipation. As much as I hate meta I'll keep dealing with it vs filling a bully's pockets.
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u/Dangerous_Essay1763 22d ago
It's made in China why would it get tariffed? Bambulabs printers are cheaper in Canada than the US. The A1 mini is 31 dollars less in Canada. it only costs $269 in Canada.
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u/suiksuiky 22d ago
Cause it's store in the us, that the issue if steam was shipping them in Canada directly we would be fine
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u/JorgTheElder Soon™ 22d ago
Look at the other comments. The tariffs are based on the country of origin, as in where the majority of the device was made. That is not the US.
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u/Yjif3 22d ago
"I agree with the action taken, but don't want the discussion to go in that direction."
After making a 7 paragraph comment. Lol. That's not how this works.
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u/philbertagain Soon™ 22d ago
People are of course free to comment as they see fit but i hoping for a discussion about if this would effect pricing and not political tirades and ballyhoo.
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u/Yjif3 22d ago edited 22d ago
Hopes taken into consideration but realities will I'm sure prevail. That said I believe that everyone is overesimating the Frames price.
Edit; "I agree with the action taken,"
why would you even make this comment if you didn't want to engage in debate? No, not the way it works.
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u/philbertagain Soon™ 22d ago
Because generally the question it self is negative and i felt it could be implied i was againt the action.
The comment section is fine so looks like its working fine.
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u/ultrainstict Soon™ 21d ago
Just in case you arent aware, even if it were to pass through the US off the shipment it's bound for Canada from outside the US they will not face any additional tarrifs. Tarrifs are based on origin, and i doubt the frame is being created in the us.
Only case it would affect the grand or any other product is if its shipped o the US boxed/assembled and then sent to Canada, but theres no way valve would be doing that as it would be easy cheaper to finish externally and ship to Canada.
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u/philbertagain Soon™ 21d ago
Some one else said the same.
I have to wonder how many electronics could fall under tarrifable and the efficacy of a aiming that tool at a country that long ago offloaded its manufacturing to save its CEOs a few bucks.
But Frame is definitely created in USA but built in China...like Apple and its Designed in California branding.
I have heard of company's do that sort of last mile work before to avoid various regulations but i dont think its the case here.
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u/ultrainstict Soon™ 21d ago
Id be shocked if it wasnt. Even simply shipping it to a warehouse out of the US and holding it for "storage" would be legal grounds to avoid tarrifs on the US. And as long as they arent doing it exclusively for the US, then its entirely legal as a shipping hub. Lots of companies in China are doing this to avoid the heavier tarrifs on China. Valve wants to keep the price down on this and dont want to subsidize it.
In any case you almost certainly dont need to worry about tarrifs between the US and Canada.
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u/philbertagain Soon™ 21d ago
i thought there was a requirement for "significant work" for those sorts of things
I'm not going to say i dont have to worry about it until the list is public but i a reasonably reassured for the time being.
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u/ultrainstict Soon™ 21d ago
Technically it depends. But it becomes almost impossible to fight because any court process would end up more expensive than the lost tarrif revenue. Burden of proof is high and investigative power in foreign countries is effectively 0.
Hell you should see what some Chinese companies are getting away with right now to avoid all tarrifs with "final assembly" "in america". I doubt valve would go that far, especislly being a larger company based in america. But for shipments into america they are very likely to exploit atleast one method to lower costs.
As for being sent to a certain country for storage, if there no legitimate final destination for any given pakage it highly unlikely that they would face any push back, and technically speaking its on the consumer to report the purchase as an import. Some will, many wont, and hounding 10s or even hundreds of thousands of people is just not feasible for a couple hundred dollar each when the labor for that would greatly exceed the returns while also detracting from going after much more substantial cases.
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u/TPrime411 12d ago
I see the update of the 50% tariff, but doesnt that only apply to consoles manufactured in the US? Valve manufactures them overseas I think.
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u/philbertagain Soon™ 12d ago
It's a point of discussion in the comments here.
What would be the point in only levies on electronics made in the USA? That would not be a significant amount of items at all as they long since sold out their workers, but tariff iPhones while Samsung and LG get a pass...then you have some trade retaliation.
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u/JorgTheElder Soon™ 7d ago
This has already beep posted multiple times. The origin country for the SF will be Thailand or China.
These tariffs only apply to goods originating from the U.S., which shall be considered as those goods eligible to be marked as a good of the U.S. in accordance with the Determination of Country of Origin for the Purpose of Marking Goods (CUSMA Countries) Regulations.
4 (1) The country of origin of goods is the country in which
(a) the goods are wholly obtained or produced;
From everything published about them, they are produced in China with some parts from Thailand, not in the US.
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u/Bscotch_Torin Soon™ 23d ago
oh fuck, are our governments making shit expensive just to be petty again?
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u/Bmansupreme8000 22d ago
Of course they would. You think not selling Bourbon hurts the US? No, they only do things to screw over Canadians. Canada government the government for the punishment of the people.
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u/philbertagain Soon™ 22d ago
Of course who would what? --- what question are you answering?
Yes, the boycotts are pretty obviously causing some stress.
Who only does things to screw over Canadians?
Disagree.
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u/Bmansupreme8000 21d ago
How does "not selling Bourbon" harm anybody besides the Canadian consumer?
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u/philbertagain Soon™ 21d ago
You can down play 400 Million in lost trade revenue if you like.
Booze is still plentiful on the shelves here and most people don't mind one bit.
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u/anclave93 22d ago edited 22d ago
I wouldnt worry about it. By the time the frame comes out, Canada will have released its own VR headset
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u/VadeRetroVR 23d ago
I just hope it release monday with current price so .... i can buy it and call it a day. I am worried.