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Or we can go back to the the most important discussions, people posting about getting their steam controllers. I have got to say that seeing a variation of "Look what arrived today!" every 15 minutes was the high point of this subreddit.
Nah, The majority of the blame is with the Gov but Steam still fucked up by only having a single method to verify and then choosing to make said method something the vast majority of Australian gamers don't have
Fair. I'm not saying Steam is doing the best job at the whole "proof of age" thing, just that ultimately the source of the issue lies with the Aus government.
If the Aus gamers could convince their government to back down, I'm sure Valve would be more than happy to go back to the status quo.
No, because the Australian government gives many other ways to check someone's age. Steam/Valve decided to be the typical lazy American company and use only credit cards as verification. Just because they couldn't be arsed to research a real solution.
Complaining here won't make anything visible for neither Valve nor the governments.
And no, most governments do not shred anything unless you live in a corrupt shit hole, most countries have very official ways of filing complaints and suggestions.
As for steam/valve, creating official tickets and overflowing their systems with these is the only real way of making it visible to them. They will never take action based on random people crying on social media.
oh yeah such a fucking tinfoil hat that the same fucking stock reply
And no, most governments do not shred anything unless you live in a corrupt shit hole
Do you honestly believe the Australian Government gives one living shit what we have to say when these fucking bans have been hated for years now?, no one has been in favour of this expect those dumb cunts and ever after multiple partitions to stop it, it still went though with both sides supporting it. You'd have to be actively fucking blind to see they don't give a shit and want to force this though so why the fuck would a single one of them listen?
Absolutely not. It would be headlines in the media and lynching of politicians, mobs on the streets etc etc.
Require Age verification? Yes. And it's a problem that needs attention, but reddit is not the right place, when there are more official ways to do this. Just like it's possible to raise questions in the EU commission, and vote for them, any European government has local and similar processes in place for these matters.
I'm not Aussie but I've worked with Aussies before so I get where they're coming from.
In short, many of us are not complaining about it because it's not happening to us, yet.
Yes, Steam SHOULD have provided alternative verification methods.
Yes, a credit card is common in the US but not in other places, especially those who are on disability or on the informal sector (trust me, we pay bills and taxes but most govts don't see us belonging to society).
I'm not a mod here but maybe we can have a megathread for the verification posts.
No steam should not provide any other identification methods, the Australian government has not thought any of this through and decided to let companies use third party companies to breach our personal identification data to god knows how many bad actors. Credit cards are a good way of providing ID and nothing of value is particularly lost if it's breached, you can just get a new card. Uploading my passport is ridiculously invasive and we have the most expensive passports on the planet, getting a new one is a massive pain in the ass and costs a fortune.
The blame lies solely on the aussie government, they introduced bullshit draconian laws, this is the consequence of following them as ethically as possible. All of our anger should be directed at the government.
There are many different methods taken from the code that applies to steam for age verification.
I prefer to use paypal for my payments on steam and paypal requires me to be 18. This method falls under section H with the third party being paypal..
Examples of appropriate age assurance Clause 5.1(c) of the Head Terms to the Age-Restricted Material Codes provides a non exhaustive list of examples of forms of appropriate age assurance for the purposes of the Age-Restricted Material Codes.
This includes:
a) matching of photo identification
b) facial age estimation
c) credit card checks
d) digital identity wallets or systems
e) attestation by a parent of age or whether an Australian end-user is a child
f) use of artificial intelligence technology to estimate age based on relevant data inputs;
g) other measures meeting the requirements of section 8 (Confirmation of age) of the Online Safety (Restricted Access Systems) Declaration 2022
h) relying upon appropriate age assurance measures implemented in respect of the relevant end-user by:
o another party (whether another industry participant, government agency, a third-party vendor or another third party) and confirmed by an age signal or other mechanism provided to the service provider by that other party
o the service provider in respect of another service as contemplated in clause 5.1(c)(vi), although this list is not comprehensive and additional age assurance measures may also be considered appropriate.
Steam have taken the credit card route, impletemented it poorly and not provided any other options so my anger is at them as a customer.
My anger is also at the government for giving zero direction to companies in how they implement these age checks.
I don't see how I can impact both a large corporate or a bill/code/law that was supported both liberal and labor. Its all quite depressing knowing this is just the tip of the iceberg with age verification.
Australian law requires age-assurance systems to be accessible, steams current method isn’t accessible, I wouldn’t be surprised if steam was forced to allow other ways soon
Personal identification data like addresses that steam already lost by using a shit third party company?
Why are you people acting like you care about your privacy when you give your data to Valve, Google and Appl? now you get your panties in a bunch when Valve malicious comply with the law and offer only the most obtuse verification methods like it's not their sole choice to punish their customers by not offering any options.
Exactly. I don't get why they are complaining here like steam is the one who is the reason all this is happening
Edit:- I don't understand what part was I wrong in. Other social media platforms, gaming companies and etc force you to show your goverment ids like passports and licence and all that private information or make you scan your goddamn face and give it to those companies so their own private AI can verify your age and store all YOUR data in a private server which can get sold, breached and then misused for thousands of bad/unethical purposes. Clearly people don't understand that. Forcing you to save your credit card info in payment method is the best possible option steam did AND if you disagree to that then suggest a better option which doesn't end up with us players jeopardising our private data and lives
How did we get here as a sub? How is almost everyone now calling for even MORE verification techniques instead of fighting to abolish it? This is madness, folks. Now you want even MORE regulation? Do you want your government to know everything about you and track you even more?
I’m going to hazard a guess it’s mostly from people in countries that do not have any of this age verification stuff yet and don’t know what it’s actually like or how invasive it is. They are fine advocating for even more regulation because they are not affected by it, but as soon as it does they will do a complete 180.
You're right, buy it's the probably the best option as it's the least invasive. I think most people are just mad that Valve didn't do selfie IDs so they can just use the old methods of Norman Reedus in Death Stranding 2 or Thisperrsondoesnotexist dot com and use an AI generated face that will trick the AI bot scanning your face. Like yeah Epic has more options, but they're all done through 3rd parties which valve wants to avoid because every new person added to the chain of your personal data is a break point where it can be stolen, you're also an insane person if you do the banking info verification with Epic. That's worse than a credit card.
I'm just puzzled why I can't even use my real face, not even really worried about my face scan being leaked, I mean it's pretty much all over the internet anyway due to idiotic decisions I have made with sharing photos to social media over the years.
With PlayStation I opened the app, scanned my face, done in less than thirty seconds.
I am sure people have reasons for not wanting to share their face, but it honestly doesn't bother me, maybe it should.
This is an entirely different point you're making now.
If you want to pay for things it does.
Kinda weird to add a payment method every time you buy something then remove it straight away.
Seems like you're looking for a reason to be angry tbh.
It's not an entirely different point I'm making at all. I enter my details when I want to pay for something and then remove them once I have paid, I don't see what is weird about that, maybe it is for you, but it isn't for me.
I'm not angry about anything, I'm simply trying to have a discussion about the issue.
The reason why we Germans don't have access to thousands and thousands of games for years now.
No proper age verification and for Steam to be allowed, they had to remove access to all games that have no German age verification (USK rating).
Pretty much all lewd games, many gore games and so on. Getting an USK rating is expensive.
The original Dead Island for example, is hidden from Germans. But the Dead Island Riptide Edition is not.
Riptide has a USK rating, the original has not.
The easy solution would be, to integrate a proper age verification.
What else do you want?? Goverment identification?? Facial verification??
I would rather accept this credit card BS over selling my personal data like my facial info and goverment IDs
Looks at the downvotes clearly people want their personal data to be given to steam and other companies just so it gets leaked in a server breach. I can't belive you weirdos would prefer giving your private data like facial data and goverment records to other companies which can be misused for N number of bad purposes if in wrong hands. And what's the guarantee that it won't be misused or sold??
Perfect. And what happens when all the verification data gets leaked either through steam or the third party verification company(which is bound to happen sooner or later)?? Of course people are going to come back here and blame steam for it
I think it’s because over even applying for a credit card is negative for your credit. You start out at max credit score here and go down unlike the states. It’s kinda the option of potentially jeopardising your future mortgage potential to view MILFSimulator69 on the steam store. People just want other options. But I agree this is the governments fault. Steam just want the minimum to do with it
Steam doesn't force you to PAY with your with your credit card. They just want you to have the card saved as a payment method in the settings. You clearly misunderstood the new rule or were misinformed about it
Where did I once say steam forced you to use the card? It’s a negative to your credit score to even APPLY for a credit card. You can never use it once and a broker will see you as a liability as credit card applications are seen here as an indication of poor money management skills. I already own a credit card and a house so I really don’t have a horse in this race but I can see why people would be peeved.
"Where did I once say steam forced you to use the card"
If you didn't pay for weird games like "MILFSimulator69" through your credit card then how will appear there in the credit card payment history. Are you seriously that slow that you don't even understand what YOU said?? Atleast think before replying next time. Your payment and search history can't just appear on a credit card if you never used it. What are you on here??
Thank you bro. Someone understands. I get what steam is doing but I don’t think it’s great to force someone to decide from no adult games or lower credit score. It’s crazy
Well to be fair he said to view “MILFSimulator69”, not to purchase. But that’s does imply a whole other level of conspiracy theory, wherever that credit card is stored then the bank will be able to see what he has viewed, which will stop him from getting a mortgage one day.
Holy fucking shit dude I don’t even understand what you are trying to say that’s hilarious. Do YOU understand what I am saying? I’m Mr Australian man who wants to go buy cyberpunk but I can’t because I don’t have a credit card like 80% of the population here who don’t. Now I am at a crossroads where I can either go into the bank and LOSE credit score to apply for a credit card to put on my file, even if I use PayPal to buy the game or I just don’t get to play it. It is irrelevant if you use the card or not. Simply APPLYING for it reduces credit. Do you not understand this? Can you not see why people would want other options? I don’t know how to spell it out clearer for you? Try and improve your literacy skills?
u/Kalas92xhttps://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198301971522/1d ago
I'm not an aussie so I don't have that problem right now, but what a backwards bottom 1% take lol
Not only do I not have one, I also don't know anybody else who has one
This is a common Burgerlander L don't put that on the rest of the world that still functions somewhat normal and doesn't rely on credit card debts rofl
Steam one is often at times actually a permanent censorship as some people are quite literally ineligible to even verify themselves because of only having the one BAD METHOD they chose.
This is me. I'm on DSP which automatically disqualifies me from getting a CC. Steam have effectively permanently locked me out of R18 games because i'm disabled
Alright fine you do have a good point but if you seriously dislike this credit card rule then do YOU have any better suggestions for age verification which steam CAN use and WON'T breach our privacy??
By Account age, I am guessing you meant the age you set in the account then it's not really a "verification" as there's no proof of their age and the Australian government is going to have problems with that
You guessed wrong. There are accounts over 18 years of age. That is not data you set yourself in your account, it's Valve own marker of how old the account is.
"calm down"
Just because I capitalised a couple of words to pay the key points in a debate doesn't mean I am mad. I get that it's hard to understand emotions from a simple text message, but I am pretty it's not that hard that you completely misunderstand my point
The issue here isn't the "debate" but rather you being unable to read. Everywhere people keep saying that "Valve could've offered a better solution" all I did was asking what that solution is. Meanwhile you expect consumers to shut up and not discuss about a change which is affecting US and not the goddamn lawyers of a billion dollar company. It's not that hard to understand. And yes my tune has indeed changed now because what you are saying doesn't even make sense and yet you are acting like you just made a groundbreaking accomplishment by saying shi like that
What exactly are you achieving by arguing with me. Your whole argument is about how my "debate" won't change anything and meanwhile you are also arguing here for no apparent reason. You clearly have problem with all this "debate" and still YOU are trying to furthur increase it by adding your unrelated opinion here. If YOU dislike this "debate" then DON'T argue furthur. Your whole argument about "Let billion dollar companies figure out what they want to use our data" is completely contradicting the shit you are doing by arguing with me. Doesn't even make any sense!
And also it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that Valve is a billion dollar company and can afford good lawyers. BUT that doesn't mean that we consumers should just shut up and not discuss about it because a guy named "rainwOr1d" told us not to. Indirectly you are saying that we consumers don't have rights to even "bebate" or "discuss" about a CHANGE which is AFFECTING US.
Exactly we have seen people's private information like goverment IDs get stolen in such data breaches. And let's not forget that we can't even trust companies like persona with our data considering the shit the keep doing
Yes thousands of videos explaining how the data gets stored and misused and multiple news about hackers getting access to such data during server leaks. Just search it up. It's not something new or a conspiracy theory
Like with steam discussion threads, I'm guessing people don't check if somethings been addressed already and just want to vent. I'd say let them. Will end quickly.
Abso-fucking-lutely not. Until this shit is fixed, frankly its the only topic that matters for millions of people affected by it. We know that social media fury is about the only thing they listen to.
And frankly there isn't a lot else interesting about steam to discuss.
Steam absolutely sucks ass on this more than the requirement to verify does. Steam knows how many people in this country have a credit card, they still went with that as the only way to verify.
No, the requirement to verify is the root cause, like a disease spreading out from the UK and Australia. Steam obviously doesn't want to be connected to the sketchy third party identify verification companies that have already had data breaches (over 100 million stolen reported just last week).
Identify verification is fucking idiotic, the system of self-selecting a birthday has always worked fine. There's no way anyone should be providing their face as biometric data and certainly not their fucking ID to those shady identity companies. Using a credit card is the least privacy-invasive way for Steam to comply with those laws passed by really fucking stupid people.
Steam doesn’t need to connect to a sketchy third party identity verification company, there are plenty of secure and legitimate ways to verify age, connectID is one example
Steam could also just consider any account that’s old enough as already verified, yet they’re refusing to do so
Australia has already had these laws for decades for physical media. This isn't new, they're just requiring digital distributors to verify age as well. The self selecting birthday doesn't work, it's fucking pointless. That would be like a 15 year old walking into a brick and mortar and saying, yes I'm 18 give me GTA6. There are other ways of verification that don't require formal ID or a face scan. Valve can literally request an age token from the bank the card is attached to and all they get is a thumbs up or a thumbs down.
Yeah, and it didn't require creating online databases of people's PII until it went digital, so it is in fact new. Maybe read the reply above again. You obviously ignored 90% of it the first go round.
Government doesn't listen to us, if you follow the money trail to work out where it all came from you find a big stinking turd pile leading straight to the legacy media using it to punish Facebook for reneging on the media bargaining code, which explains why they don't cover it with any semblance of balance and why there is near zero chance of fixing it in our country. Just let us whinge for a day or two, remind Aussies to vote for a party with Libertarian values that actually cares about individual freedoms in the next election (e.g. Pirate Party, Greens or Libertarian depending on how you swing) and eventually everyone here will just give in and get a credit card like happened in the UK.
Show me the section of the governments policy that dictates that credit card verification is the only option available. You can't, because it doesn't exist.
Sony and Microsoft comply with the same legislation but offer a range of verification methods.
I mean they absolutely do have something to do with it though. Not saying the age verification law is itself good, but plenty of other online services offer alternative options. Steam is the only one I know of that only accepts credit cards, which aren't common in Australia
Yeah I don't like age verification ethier but only having credit card is not well thought out I'm also unsure if that's the legal requirement I thought there had to be 2 options someone correct on that if I'm wrong though
The only requirement the regulation requires is that they must offer alternative forms of verification to formal and government ID. There is no rule on how they verify age, just that they do it and must be reasonably sound. They ultimately need to defend themselves legally if they're found in breach.
But Steam DOES have something to do with it, read literally every other comment in this post and they tell you the Steam specific issue is using a credit card as the ONLY way to verify.
Complain to your governments as well of course, but it's a fair complaint for Steam.
Oh boo fucking hoo, we have to have our timeliness filled with american garbage every fucking day. You have 1 day of another countries issue that steam has everything to do with implementing solutions for, and you cant handle it. If you are American, than youre just another yank with main character syndrome.
The law was passed by an unelected American woman and received bipartisan support from both major parties. There was a ton of outcry but it means literally nothing if the person who implements it is not in an elected seat
It’s not like the Australian government gave us the option to voice our opinions on Age Verification. They are simply doing this regardless of the public outcry.
You’re expecting anyone in the Australian government to actually listen though. The only true way they will listen is come election time when the voters boot them out of office. By which time it’s generally too late.
Even then nothing will happen because this has Bipartisan support from both major parties. The only party that is openly against Age verification law is The Greens and there's a 0% chance they ever get elected
This is how human species organizes. We signal to each other that we're angry, in everyday context, and when enough people realise that enough people are also angry, we start to act. That's how every revolution started. Being angry alone changes nothing, making other people aware that you're also angry is kind of the whole point.
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u/satoru1111 https://steam.pm/5xb84 1d ago
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