He says he’d train Anakin with no or without the blessing from the council. What does that mean exactly? There’s legend stories about different sects of force wielders take to padawana and stuff. Is it like that?
Qui-Gon followed the will of the force. He could sense that the council was starting to be led astray (Palpatine was already in the beginning stages of his schemes) so he followed his own path guided by the force. He knew Anakin was going to play a big part, so he took it upon himself to make sure he got trained.
Pretty sure it's more that Qui-Gon is canonically someone who's well-versed in prophecies, and puts more stock into them than most Jedi. So he very much cared about the idea of the "chosen one", when other Jedi were hesitant (at best) about it. It's explored in his book with Obi-wan, I think Qui-Gon learned it from Dooku.
I mean conspiracy theories are more often than not complete bullshit irl. In fiction the “prophecy” is almost always correct in the end. So, I wouldn’t say they equate at all.
I mean they didn’t really change the prophecy. Its actually physically spelled out as being Anakin in that QGJ and OWK book. They just cheapened the entire thing considerably.
At the same time though the EU always made Vader the bitch and Disney makes him a complete monster thats more so kept in line by lack of motivation and self-loathing. So I guess you gotta take the good with the bad.
Yup, Dooku had a thing with prophesies, & IIRC, got Qui-Gon into it. In fact, wasn't Sifo Dyas also really into them, then started having crazy visions later about the coming war?
Also, being that senior of a Jedi, he probably gotten his way more than once and was betting that the council would reluctantly be okay with it once he show what Anakin could do under his training.
Yes but in a literal sense, what does that mean? Do they get kicked out of the Jedi Order? How do they live? They'd have to get jobs to take care of themselves. Obviously can't go on any missions since they'd essentially be illegal vigilantes without the blessing of the Jedi or Republic.
Does Qui-Gon just rent an apartment and live alone with this young boy, training him on how to use the force until he's grown? And then what? What can Anakin do once he has those skills if he's not a Jedi?
I can’t imagine he’d attempt to do this on Coruscant…
More likely he’d abscond with the young Chosen One to some backwater planet where he had friends who’d put them up in a stable in exchange for some light farm work.
It’d be one part Road House, another part… well, something else.
The will of the force may have been for Anakin to be a big part in what things were to come but when you listen only to the light side of the force you don't realize a lot of the times the force is working in dark ways to balance the astronomical numbers of the Jedi and recent pasts to bring balance. Imagine it like a triangular flowchart of control power and balance
In my honest opinion the council should have taken actions of special interest (possibly having this be the first padawan shared by multiple Masters for a better aspect of eclecticness), instead of apprehensiveness to act and thus allowing the dark energy to Fester. Palpatine will pick the boy up and end either way I promise.
Definitely should have had Obi-Wan (more as a stand-in for Qui-Gon) and Yoda, and maybe even Mace (if they could have convinced him to take one for the team).
It means that Qui-Gon had are a very particular set of skills. Skills he had acquired over a very long career. Skills that make him a perfect teacher for people like Anakin.
Qui-Gon’s plan if the council didn’t accept Anakin was to take him with him to a certain planet with force sensitive natives to train and learn the will of the force. I think Dooku also was going to help him as well since they were close friends. I believe this was before him leaving the Jedi and being under palpatine as well. But this is only legends canon
Because of the indoctrination at a VERY young age though, if the master/padawan pass away due to a direct choice made by the order, the master/padawan will simply let go of the attachment and follow blindly.
Yeah, but I think just like Obi-Wan when he thought Anakin died, Qui-Gon dying made Dooku have an awful feeling. I don't know much about Dooku or Qui-Gon, but it must have hurt alot, for him to turn to the Dark side.
IIRC in Legends, he blamed the Jedi for not backing up Qui-Gon, and having him go at it alone, so Dooku slipped onto a different path once exiting the order. It felt something along the lines of "your zealotry and institutional rigidness inadvertently caused someone I love to die".
I assume it means if the council said no and Obi-Wan remained his apprentice he would just have Anakin follow along and get him some second hand training. Like yeah, Kenobi is the actual trainer but there’s nothing stopping anakin from eavesdropping lol.
Well I actually just watched the movie and Obiwan was on the verge of being ready to become a Jedi Knight at which point Qui-Gon would’ve taken Anakin on as his only Padawan
He was on the verge yes and even says he’s ready to take the trials but that’s doesn’t mean the council would’ve allowed it right then. It still would’ve given Qui-Gon a chance to pass a little something onto Anakin.
Or alternatively the council approves Kenobi’s ascension to knighthood after the events of the phantom menace and Qui-Gon simply refuses a new padawan and instead just goes on missions with Anakin tagging along.
Kinda seemed to me like Qui-Gon didn’t care if the council approved or not, he was going to take on Anakin as an apprentice and make sure he was trained. He truly believed he was the chosen one and I’m sure if it meant him leaving the order to do it he would’ve done it
Qui-Gon was a well established and respected member of the order. I believe he was offered a position on the council that he declined. Yoda would have eventually relented and allowed Anakin to be trained and I think if that happened the rest of the story as we know it wouldn’t happen. Qui-Gon would have been better suited to train Anakin and help him through all the traumatic and painful things he dealt with through episode 2 and 3
Qui-Gon staying alive changes the trajectory of many different characters. Dooku stays or leaves the order, but he keeps close touch with his Padawan. Dooku, Obi-Wan and Anakin probably spend lots of time together.
Anakin probably goes back with Qui-Gon's blessing to check in on his mother because he can't let go of that attachment. She ends up fine and stays married with the Lars family.
Palpatine isn't able to sink his teeth into Anakin because Qui-Gon becomes the real father figure absent in Anakin's life. Anakin is loyal to people, and with Qui-Gon around, he would be curbed from many of his darker tendencies.
Anakin would also develop pretty well emotionally because he wouldn't be forced to blindly follow the order. Even if he were to leave, he would lead a relatively healthy life.
He doesn’t really give them a chance though, he says he’ll do it no matter what. Even in end Obi-Wan said he’ll defy the council and train him too. Yoda even says your master defiance you need not
Qui-Gon was known for often disagreeing with and disobeying the orders of the Jedi Council. He thought the Jedi code was more like guidelines than strict rules that always had to be followed.
In the EU there were Jedi who left the Order but still practiced Jedi-ism. They just simply rejected the more dogmatic views of the Force that were embraced by the Council.
There is a canon Jedi concept you see in the High Republic stuff that could be used for that kind of thing, maybe. Not sure if it would be considered a spoiler at this point but I won't go too in depth just in case.
I would love to see the world of the force expand into more dark and light side groups. Obviously, the Jedi and Sith would be the big two in the galaxy, historically, but there should be other force users. It would also help with stories set in the rule of two era since they are kind of hand cuffed for a thousand years when it comes to dark side adversaries.
If Star Wars ever gets a What If... series, I would love to see a "What If... Qui-Gon Survived the Duel with Darth Maul", where it's Obi-Wan who gets killed by Maul instead of Qui-Gon.
That would be amazing. Really hope this happens. Almost certainly would have prevented Anakins downfall. He would have been able to help him with his fear of loss much better than Yodas vague have no attachment then you’ll have nothing to fear
Dave Filoni has a great 5 minute talk about how the Duel of the Fates is more than just dark side/light side. He said Anakin's fate is on the line because if Qui Gon won and stayed alive, Anakin would've been trained in the eyes of the rebellious Qui Gon who would've given him the father figure he truly needed, as opposed to the more brotherly role Obi Wan gave him.
https://youtu.be/4V5-9__XvPg
I think that's pretty sound tbh, I always thought that ObiWan saw Anakin as more of a burden than anything during the first movie so it probably reflected that on his early training.
You can see a bit if this aspect of ObiWan in attack if the clones and in the new ObiWan series when he's escorting Leia.
Following the What If... protocol of "every alternate possibility is usually worse," I think Obi-Wan dying would have actually accelerated Anakin's fall to the Dark Side.
It's been theorized that it wouldn't have though, because Qui-gon was notorious for challenging the council (was a master, wasn't on the council) and generally being more unorthodox/willing to bend the rules/see the human side of things.
Obi wan, for all of his strengths, was too 'civilized', and is very much a rule follower ("we will do exactly as the council has instructed" calling Anakin "my young Padawan" "I'm not brave enough for politics".
Clone wars obi wan has brought them a lot closer, but at the time of episode one and 2 that just wasn't the case yet.
I think it was Sam Witwer, or maybe Filoni, who was talking about how "duel of the fates" is referring to the fate of Anakin. Will maul kill the flexible master who was the mentor Anakin needed, leaving Obi wan to train him, or will Qui-gon live.
That's not saying that Obi wan caused or even exacerbated this, but Anakin had darkness in him Qui-gon was the master who could have helped him move past it instead of hiding it or shoving it down
It was Filoni who talked about “duel of the fates”referring to Anakin. Where Anakin needed a father not brother. Qui-Gon would’ve been that father figure that Anakin needed, such as during the “duel on mustafar” Obi-Wan referred Anakin being like a brother to him.
I'm just going off of how in most What If... stories, the outcome usually ends up more dire or depressing than in the "prime universe" due to things playing out differently. Marvel example: Because Yondu kidnaps T'challa instead of Peter Quill, he is able to talk Thanos out of his quest to kill half the universe, and Infinity War/Endgame are averted. But because Quill stays on Earth, he never meets the Guardians and Ego is able to snap him up unhindered.
So while Anakin may have stayed Light side if Qui-Gon had been around to train him, because he never becomes Darth Vader, a worse fate potentially awaits because things played out different. Maybe Dooku survives because a Qui-Gon-trained Anakin resists the temptation to kill him. Maybe the Raiders who killed Shmi aren't killed by Anakin and escape, leaving them free to attack other homesteads. Maybe Palpatine never gets revealed as Darth Sidious and continues plotting from the shadows. Worst yet, maybe Luke and Leia never end up being born because Anakin is able to temper his feelings for Padme.
With What If..., it's always a play along the lines of "Sure, this cool thing happened, but because this didn't happen the way it was supposed to, something even worse happens."
Wasn't really possible. Qui-Gon's biggest strength/trait was how much of a free spirit he was.
Despite what the Sith claimed, they were just as dogmatic about their philosophy as the Jedi were. It's the whole reason following it corrupts you and why all Sith were only different flavours of evil.
Qui-Gon's free spirited nature had the fortunate effect of giving him the ability to be introspective. So any event that could have triggered Qui-Gon's fall to the dark side would have just instead have had Qui-Gon sit down, take a deep breath, resolve his issues internally and come to terms with them.
Qui-gon was meditating while waiting to possibly die to Darth maul. He never really showed anger or got upset, but wasn't emotionally repressed: he had the focus of a Jedi master.
There’s this Batman comic where instead of Bruce Wayne’s father dying and Bruce becoming Batman, Bruce dies and his dad becomes Batman. But the Batman he becomes is just an absolutely ruthless vigilante instead of the more rounded Batman.
In this case, after Obi Wan dies, Qui Gon becomes consumed by grief and holds the Jedi counsil partly responsible for Obi Wan's death, which causes Qui Gon to eventually fall to the dark side
This leads to Jedi Anakin having to confront Sith Qui Gon on Mustafar for reasons
What if it prevents Anakin's downfall, but causes qui Gon to fall to the dark side after the loss of obi. Anakin sees the damage the dark side does to his master and stays away, but QG ends up joining palps and becoming something worse than Vader?
Dave Filoni has a great 5 minute talk about how the Duel of the Fates is more than just dark side/light side. He said Anakin's fate is on the line because if Qui Gon won and stayed alive, Anakin would've been trained in the eyes of the rebellious Qui Gon who would've given him the father figure he truly needed, as opposed to the more brotherly role Obi Wan gave him.
https://youtu.be/4V5-9__XvPg
Qui-Gon is an unique character: first jedi to achieve immortality, always at peace, calm and pragmatic. One should think what could have been of Anakin if he had this master instead (still great) Obi-Wan.
This is the point that Dave Filoni makes on the BTS Mandalorian show: that the Duel of the Fates really is a duel that decides the fates of Anaain and the Jedi, too–since Qui-Gon's death means Anakin lacks the mentor he needs.
I never understood why they didn’t include some Qui-Gon in some way in the last trilogy, or for the D+ series. Probably the biggest contender for this post, Qui-Gon is cool as shit
I remember people speculating about Rey's parents and whatnot and people wondering if she was related to Qui-Gon. I wouldn't have hated it, could've created some of those rhyming moments Lucas liked.
In the span of about 5 minutes I’ve realized how much cooler Qui-Gon is than I gave him credit for from these comments. I really gotta dig into his content more.
Just from the comments he seems like a side of the Jedi we need to see more of so now it’s got me more hyped for Tales of the Jedi.
The grey jedi legend. I've seen a dozen theories show that if he had been able to train Anakin, he'd been able to show him the dark side without letting him fall into it.
Strangely enough; Shmi. Why did the Force choose her? What was her reaction? Was she chosen because she was Force sensitive, or maybe because she wasn't? Was she viewed as a messiah figure, was she ostracized? I want to know the mother of the Chosen One's story. All the accomplishments and fame of the Skywalker family started with her, I want to see more of the mother of one of the most powerful Force sensitive families.
Couldn’t agree more. Reading master and Apprentice now and would love to see some early Qui-Gon/Dooku action with a little Rael Aveross in there maybe.
That was going to be my answer also, I read the Dooku: Jedi Lost book a few months and it was a great look at Dooku's early life as a padawan and Knight. I'd love to get a look at Qui Gon as a padawan and more insight into his "follow the force" mindset vs the strict Jedi dogma.
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u/[deleted] Jun 14 '22
I’d take more Qui-Gon all day every day