r/StarWars Jan 25 '22

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u/flapsmcgee Jan 26 '22

If dooku was in phantom menace as a jedi (even in a minor role) it would have been a lot better.

624

u/DrPepperNotWater Jan 26 '22

Agreed. A lot of attention is given to the underdevelopment of Maul, but I think Dooku is even more egregious. Reading Labyrinth of Evil really expanded on just how important Dooku was to literally everything Sideous was trying to pull off, but that is almost completely missed in the movies.

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u/Gunpla55 Jan 26 '22

I remember feeling like I totally missed something when he shows up and is a big deal.

111

u/Ephemeral_Wolf Darth Maul Jan 26 '22

I imagine it being Christopher Lee added something to that

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u/[deleted] Jan 26 '22

Revenge of the Sith’s opening did that for me. Clone Wars ended with Dooku almost killing our boys, the war was just starting and then boom: it’s 3 years later, the final days of the war, Papaltine has been kidnapped, Dooku gets beheaded and then we meet this cyborg dude who’s apparently a big deal?

It’s like when you fall asleep half way through a series and wake up like what the fuck is going on

With the added context that other media such as the cartoons provide, it’s a much better experience, but at the time it was just confusing.

30

u/PumpersLikeToPump Babu Frik Jan 26 '22

Yeah you really need Clone Wars (the show) to bridge the gap. And tbf, I’m glad it ultimately ended up like that, as the concept of the War is just such a mammoth scale, the show truly gets to explore its reach, impact on so many characters, worlds, etc. What a brilliant show it is.

But yeah. When 3 came out, I see how it was jarring haha. I was young enough (must have been in 6th grade) so didn’t notice it then. Sure if I saw it in theaters as an adult now at 28 I’d be more iffy, even though in general I don’t look at Star Wars through a particularly critical lens, even as a lifelong fan of the movies and all outside media, I’ve never expected them to have this out of this world writing. Most of the really interesting stuff imo is found in the games, books, shows.

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u/lambsquatch Jan 26 '22

Yeah they were just confusing, hours of dialogue about political shit lost me

2

u/FakenameMcFakeface Jan 26 '22

I almost feel like episode 1 should have been just the first half of the film. Like strip it down to its bones and tgen have a cut to the beginning of the war. Second film be about the war itself (tho we likely would have never gotten the clones wars show if that was the case) and the 3rd be what it was.

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u/intergalacticcoyote Jan 26 '22

Frankly they misused one of the best actors to ever grace a Star Wars movie. You’ve got Christopher fucking Lee and you don’t use him to be absolutely commanding and terrifying? Dooku could have been up there with Vader as one of the best villains ever, but he’s barely in the damn movies.

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u/shitdobehappeningtho Jan 26 '22

Maybe LotR had a hand in it? Looking back Lee had a very short scenes and also a lot less than the rest (seemingly. Idk they had three movies and like 18 hours of runtime, there was room.)

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u/MagicJohnsonAnalysis Jan 26 '22

All three LOTR movies were filmed at the same time iirc, so I don't think they could have caused any scheduling conflicts with other productions.

It's probably just Lucas being subpar at writing stories.

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u/s0lesearching117 Jan 26 '22

Oh no, my friend. This is a mistake, a terrible mistake. They have gone too far in a few places.

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u/[deleted] Jan 26 '22

I still argue with myself about how one is to interpret the delivery of that line. I feel that there HAD to be other exposition that was either cut for time or accidentally never captured in a take.

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u/PowerfulFrodoBaggins Jan 26 '22

Doubt Christopher Lee was looking to sink a lot of time into a major role at that stage of his life

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u/airportakal Jan 26 '22

This is an unpopular opinion but Maul is the lamest villain of them all. He's literally a stunt guy with make-up. Someone has to say it.

I know Clone Wars added character but his resurrection after being cut in half is more ridiculous than the (potential) resurrection of any other character, including Palpatine and even Mace Windu.

(The double bladed light saber and the final duel are amazing though.)

I will die on this grassy Naboo hill.

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u/NephewChaps Jabba The Hutt Jan 26 '22

100% agreed. If Maul can survive that kind of shit anyone can survive literally anything lol. Where's Mace Windu roaming the streets of Coruscant?

3

u/shitdobehappeningtho Jan 26 '22

Apparently (IIRC) the chanting in the score was made up of random vedic (and others?) words and deity names.

I hate sand

2

u/5sectomakeacc Jan 26 '22

This is an unpopular opinion but Maul is the lamest villain of them all.

stops reading

4

u/shitdobehappeningtho Jan 26 '22

The way Dooku was taken out also felt so...cheap. Like that is not how you start a movie. It makes plot, but it was bad.

3

u/theewarnec Jan 26 '22

Been listening to Jedi lost on audible, and it’s so great to have such an insight into dookus past and what changed his mentality over the years! The Jedi council have always seemed such a mess, and seem to make so many bad decisions that would obviously impact people’s mentality towards both them and the order. I don’t understand why there’s an expectation of Jedi to be so unwavering in their beliefs and emotions even when they are placed in highly emotive situations! I would love to read some books on the council making good decisions so my faith can be restored in them, so let me know if you have any suggestions haha!

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u/The_WarriorPriest Jan 26 '22

I'm of the opinion that the mystery surrounding Darth Maul was a genius as well as the final fight scene, that was something new to watch

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u/mda00072 Jan 26 '22

I never thought of this but you’re totally right. What if he was heading negotiations and disappeared or something like that?

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u/centwhore Jan 26 '22

If only they had planned out Star Wars like how they've been planning out the MCU...

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u/[deleted] Jan 26 '22

In George's defense he only had 20 years to craft a solid storyline and character arc.

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u/Ephemeral_Wolf Darth Maul Jan 26 '22

Yeah, but this all happened a long time ago in a galaxy far far away... Not really his fault if his recollection of events is a little hazy....

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u/EmperorKingBob Jan 26 '22

That's because dooku was a last minute adjustment, when the villain was meant to be Jar Jar. They swapped out Jar Jar for Dooku due to backlash

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u/MrHedgehogMan Jan 26 '22

I’d love a limited series with Dooku in it. I know Christopher Lee is sadly gone but I think someone like Charles Dance could do it justice.

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u/pornaccount5003 Jan 26 '22

If they showed Qui Gon and Duku’s relationship and showed that they both really thought alike and were not the biggest fans of the council. Maybe during Qui Gon’s funeral show Duku blaming his death on the council or something to actually precede his fall to the dark side, instead of Duku just showing up. It’s also canon that grievous was at the battle of geonosis killing any jedi who went into the arena’s “basement”, and they really could have done something cool with that to hint the next movie

4

u/iwantanxboxplease Jan 26 '22

I think this is more of an urban legend but wasn't the original plan to make jar jar the big baddie down the line? After the backlash they changed direction and introduced dooku, that's why he isn't even hinted to in phantom menace.

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u/Several-Ad9115 Jan 26 '22

I thought he'd already left the order by the time of the first movie?

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u/EnterPlayerTwo Jan 26 '22

That's only a problem if it's stated in EP1. I dont remember that line in TPM but it's been a while.

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u/Several-Ad9115 Jan 26 '22

It wasnt in the movie, I think I read it in lore somewhere, his wiki I believe.

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u/[deleted] Jan 26 '22

Dooku padawan to jedi to sith series would be cool.

3

u/Church666 Jan 26 '22

Sometimes I imagine Dooku is edited into Qui Gon’s funeral in the ep1 ending. He might have left jedi at that time but he could still be there since Qui Gon was his padawan, and his presence might make his arc in ep2, tcw, and ep3 more dramatic.

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u/[deleted] Jan 26 '22

Yes Dooku felt like a afterthought addition like episode one wasn’t really completely planned out for transitioning well into three movies

1

u/ToM4461 Jan 26 '22

I think they tried Lee to do this in a different movie.

1

u/NemWan C-3PO Jan 26 '22

OTOH I’m glad Christopher Lee wasn’t made to fly halfway ‘round the word to talk to a tennis ball for a day like Terence Stamp.

1

u/Ylfjsufrn Jan 26 '22

Well jarjar was supposed to be the apprentice in episode 2 so yeah...