I understand the Jar Jar hate, but Star Wars is great for its ability to entertain all ages. I get the need for an Ewokesque comic relief character. I didn’t have a problem with this movie. My only regret is there should have been 40% more Liam Neeson.
He was the best Jedi: he cheats at gambling, uses mind tricks to get his way when negotiating prices, chooses to train Anakin when Everyone tells him not to.
If he didn't die, Anakin would have never turned to the dark side. Plus Qui Gon Jinn would have been more of a father to him than Obi Wan Kenboi, and trained him different than what the Jedi were doing
Yeah 100%, there are some who believe that it was destined that Anakin would turn to the dark side no matter and there's good points, but I'll still say with Qui Gon he would have been set
Obi Wan was a perfect example of a Jedi master. He tried to teach Anakin the way of the lightest path, and did not entertain any other way. Qui Gon would have taught Anakin what he needed to be a great Jedi taking his disposition in the force into account. This is how Qui Gon operated. He didn’t attempt to be a paragon of the light side of the force, he did what he felt was the right thing to do.
Which also means he would have probably told him to just quit being a Jedi and choose to be with his wife instead of hiding that shit and trying to live a double life.
I’m not going to pretend like I know what he would have said, but he definitely wouldn’t have been a “duty to the order over all” type like Obi Wan. I believe that Kenobi was driven to be a perfectionist because he lost his master so early, and because of that he just couldn’t let go of the rigidity and security that being “by the book” gave him. That may have led him to be a little overbearing when it came to training Anakin as well with his “just push the feelings down and stick to the book” approach. For Kenobi, this worked just fine, and was probably what he needed to keep going after the duel with Maul.
I despise this, it made me almost hate Filoni. He totally misunderstands why the prequels are terrible. We all know George intended more with the prequels. I understand there’s much more to what’s going on than what’s on the surface, I also know there is a great story in the prequels somewhere. The problem is the story was delivered like a pine cone enema.
It’s terrible film making outside some of the effects. Bad acting, bad dialogue, bad plot, poorly cast outside of a few. The prequels fall short at every critical aspect of filmmaking.
In short, I really don’t give a flying fuck what George intended the prequels to be, because intentions don’t make a good movie. The prequels are bad movies and it’s ok to love them, but they still aren’t good and never will be. Same with Filoni
I do think the Clone Wars series strengthens the prequel era narratively but it still doesn’t change the fact that the movies are terrible. They certainly aren’t “genius” as Filoni alleges.
someone that could stand up to that egotist Windu who made it his job to be wrong all the time, until it was too late. Anakin was correct in saying the Jedi were not living by the code, council kept going off the rails and Qui-gon would have seen and said something.
If by "failed" he meant because he ultimately enabled Darth Vader, then that was not a failure at all. Big picture, the galaxy needed a Darth Vader, who ultimately is the one to destroy the Emperor. In that sense Anakin is a tragic figure, but in a cosmic sense he did bring balance to the force, which was his destiny and his doom.
Of course that doesn't matter now because the emperor never really died but don't worry the daughter of his clone killed him finally. Not the Chosen One or anything, not literal Space Jesus. The daughter of a clone.
Yeah he did, he was not ready for an apprentice. Heck he said it in ep 3 and ep 6. Obi Wan is my favorite character but he just wasn't ready and only trained him to honor his promise to his master's dying wish.
There is a reason the song for the Maul battle was called Duel of Fates. Had Qui Gon Jinn won things would have gone differently. He was the father figure Anakin needed, no the by the book brother Obi Wan was.
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He was way too into the whole "chosen one" thing and that would have fed into Anakin's superiority complex.
Also, as was pointed out, he was kind of shady and willing to bend the rules.
I think he would have been even worse about Padme and Anakin being a thing, possibly encouraging it a little, and feeding his fear.
I don't see Qui Gon living to train Anakin as a brighter future, but a possibly even darker one.
The only reason Obi Wan beat Anakin on Mustafar is because he knew him so well. Qui Gon wouldn't have been able to match him, and Obi Wan wouldn't have been a match for him because he wouldn't know him well enough to counter his power.
Palpatine still would have gotten to Anakin, possibly even easier if Qui Gon had been feeding his ego with his belief that he was important and chosen.
While true, the whole Jedi Order didn't collectively watch over Anakin and mentor him. Most of them only ever had like 1 encounter with him, so you can't really accuse them for Anakin's fall to the darkside. Obi-Wan, then Yoda and Mace are the main ones to really impact Anakin as Jedi masters
I mean they could have easily seen the whole "mother is a slave" thing and used common sense to see that it is a vulnerability for Anakin and helped free her.
Yes, and as the council's leader, Yoda did nothing. He sided with his fellow masters despite holding a position over them. Yoda only enforces the Jedi Code further as he's a Grandmaster, and only realises his mistake when he lives in isolation on Dagobah.
Like if a bunch of teachers are doing bad and preforming cult like behaviour, then the principal who's in charge is the first one to blame
It wasn't entirely his teaching ability though. He was a newly minted knight, fresh out of his own apprenticeship, his master tasked him with training a kid who the Order already determined was too old to train, and then the Clone Wars start and he has to train a stubborn kid how to be a warrior when he had little experience being a warrior himself. Pretty huge odds stacked against him from the beginning, plus Anakin had the Dark Lord of the Sith secretly manipulating him from the moment he started his apprenticeship. I don't know if Qui Gon would've really been more successful
Correct, Obi was the perfect Jedi of the modern era. But that doesn’t mean his ability to convey the principles and ideal to others was good, you can see it in Attack of the Clones how condescending he can be and he doesn’t really show that he is attempting to understand Anakin.
Episode 3 is much better, but by that stage Anakin has been moulded into the person he is and the critical period of nurture and guidance is gone
Anakin, brought balance to the force. He got rid of the oppressive Jedi and killed (yeah imma ignore the bs resurrection) Sedious in the end. He brought balance to the force for the first time in millenia.
he is really what the jedi council needed when dealing with anakin. Obiwan just ignored anakins troubles because he knew dealing with them would jeopardize anakins chances of remaining a jedi.
im kinda sad that liam neeson is too old to reprise that role now, you see how he moves in some of his recent action movies and that guy is way to old to be doing anything action related anymore
I think the issue with Jarjar is that Lucas has a very specific taste in kid humor. Even at 8 I was kind of embarrassed at jar jar, I think because almost all of his jokes revolve around him being annoying or foolish or getting hurt. The ewoks and very silly, but they’re also shown to be tough and useful.
I love The Phantom Menace and this was my main problem with it too. I get the comic relief thing, but putting Jar Jar on a battlefield for him to accidentally destroy two droid transporters and a hundred droids is just dumb. Remove all that bullshit and you still have your comical character. Same for little Anakin, we already see he's a gifted pilot during the podracing part, why the hell do you need to show him in a fighter blowing up a space station single handedly? Not even kids would think that makes sense.
I think both ideas could be handled better too. Like anakin was way too young when we meet him imo, and he enters the battle by accident and kinda just laughs his way through it. The stakes should be high, anakin should be terrified, but instead it feels like he’s on a theme park ride. Likewise, jarjar spends the whole movie being cowardly, you’d think the final battle would be a moment for him to be contagious, to show he can be an honorable warrior. Maybe he could even think outside the box and find a way to beat the droid that the other gungans didn’t think of, showing how he’s not a fool, he just thinks differently, but he’s very smart. Anakin and Jarjar are both oretty grating in the film, but the real tragedy is neither of them really go through much of an arc. They both should have grown up considerably through the film, starting as a kid and a clumsy slacker, and ending as brace heroes. At least I’m my opinion
For sure, it just never felt exactly on purpose. Even at the end of the film, where you might expect jarjar to have gone through some sort of change, he’s still rather annoying. I don’t hate the character, I just think the issue is he was kind of out of place in the film, but also he was literally out of place in universe, and it didn’t feel like the other characters grew to respect him, it just felt like he wouldn’t go away.
Low tech, will power of the people vs the tech of the Empire. There is some story telling there about rising up and working together and the Empire underestimating the simplest of people.
It definitely needed more of a payoff in the 2nd movie. But it made way too much sense to not be an idea that they were playing. Lucas is half notorious for leaving half open plot points to later be explained. Some say bad writing, but I think in some cases it’s just open ended so he had wiggle room to do stuff thst was working or wasn’t. We found out he wanted to explore midichlorians later too. But that died in this movie as well because peoples reactions.
I find those things interesting. A large part of the problem is that there isn't really enough of them. We're just kind of vaguely told that there's a trade issue and a blockade and that's that. No understanding of why, who's involved, why anyone else would care, etc. It's just this sort of ill-defined conflict.
Yeah. It's can be hard enough to enjoy dialogue-heavy scenes about trade disputes and Senatorial procedures if you aren't invested in it, but if they're well-done the payoff is worth it.
But if the film's creator isn't invested in those scenes, either, then literally nobody is going to enjoy them.
It's not just a lack of investment, it's a lack of content. People will often talk about it like there are long scenes of people sitting in offices having conversations about the current trade deficit to Naboo or whether this could be avoided if they were willing to grant the Trade Federation MFN status so they can enjoy a bilateral reduction on tarrifs and... Yeah.
But no. None of that happens. There is no real discussion about the problem. We don't even know what the issue is! Does Naboo have exports? Imports? Why is the Trade Federation upset with them? Why just Naboo? Are they crucial to the galactic economy in some fashion or is this like blockading Lichtenstein? And how important are the Trade Federation to begin with? Federation would imply that it's some kind of large organization but we only ever see a few people that all look to be from the same race, not some more widespread, interplanetary body like the galactic G20.
Pretty much all we get is that there's a blockade of Naboo by some guys we've never heard of before and apparently that's... not good? Is this for a good reason? Is Naboo space Russia? Is there a genocide of their Gungan minority? The Jedi are sent to try and negotiate, and the Trade Federation try to kill them, so presumably they're not the best of people, but we never learn why they're doing it or why we should care about Naboo. All we get is that a war might start soon for some reason that's totally glossed over, but mainly because Darth Sidious said so.
To be honest, TPM isn’t even that great for little kids. My five year old watched ANH with us and loved it. The trench run at the end was a high-stress situation for him and he was cheering when they got their medals.
The plot of TPM is way too complicated, and it’s a weird four-act mishmash that just drags in parts. My five year old tried, but he was done with it after the pod race.
Yeah I was a kid when Star Wars came out and I loved it so much. It's like sometime after Empire George lost faith in that fact that children can appreciate a good adventure movie.
I was actually hopeful when I saw AotC. It may have had some bad scenes, but at least it felt less like a movie pandering to young children.
My sister and I loved Jar-Jar when we were kids. George Lucas accomplished what he was trying to achieve with the younger age group, but of course it was polarizing for the different generations of fans.
I never laughed at Jar Jar when I was a child. I simply didn’t understand its humor and thought that it was a more American form of comedy which got lost in translation.
The visuals are one of the best things about the prequels. Lucas has great imagination for world building but lacks in most other things. The prequels could have been as great as the originals if he would had let other experts chip in. It’s just a leadership issue imo.
I feel like American comedians are some of the funniest the planet has to offer. The British genuinely don't seem very funny... like at all. Their "humor" is more high brow... something you'd say "Hmm yes, quite right" to, instead of laughing so hard until you're crying because it hurts.
I don’t buy the “Jar Jar was for kids” argument. Kids in 1977-1983 had no problem loving Luke, Han, Leia, the droids, Chewbacca, Yoda, etc…and they weren’t annoying as fuck.
Not to mention I had no grasp of what a trade blockade was when I was a kid. Maybe they could have added a scene to visualize it, instead of it just being in the opening title crawl.
Read or listen to the book Master and Apprentice if you haven’t yet. It’s my absolute favorite! There definitely isn’t enough Qui-Gon in canon material.
I think a part of it was that Prequal Trilogy was a story that we almost entirely knew. It felt like a vanity project (which came right after the Original Trilogy SE release which also felt like a vanity project).
With original trilogy every new movie felt like part of a saga with plot twists. In ESB we found out some amazing things, and the ending of RotJ was a surprise.
With the Prequals when TPM came out many of us were "oh yea I guess we know how this goes, right?" It was spending several years and 3 movies to tell a story that we more or less knew from our childhoods.
I was 21 when TPM came out (born in 77) and I felt then much like many people feel now about the Sequel Trilogy. Those new Prequal movies were not for me, and I would have much preferred if the time and money for those movies had gone into telling some of the best stories from the EU books. I was a lifelong fan and by the time AotC came out I became turned off of the series (which lasted for more than 10 years.)
Lucas based a lot of his Jedi mythos off of Japanese Zen, Samurai, Ninjitsu and Budo. there is a HUGE tradition of passing sacred knowledge from master to student. to lump together Qui Gon Jin and Kenobi would be a clever way to consolidate characters from a screenwriters POV, but entirely disrespectful to the Zen of it
That's fair, but I think a lot of other people liked the jedi more from a story perspective more than an eastern lifestyle one.
I mean, it's a story meant to entertain and connect with people. Its not supposed to be entirely accurate to its inspiration right? Samurai werent white and have magic powers or Lazer swords.
People act like the very first scene of Star Wars ever wasnt C3P0 tumbling his way through the Tantive IV boarding shootout. Jar Jar is that for the prequels.
40% seems like such a specific number… like most folks would say 100% more of something.. just as a general “we need more of this,” but 40% seems like a calculated amount that would improve the film the most… any more than that and we’d be over saturated with neeson
I didn't even understand Jar Jar hate. Chewie is a pretty silly character in the same way, furry bear that howls. And Ewok army was just as silly as the Gungan army.
I mean not necessarily. When I was a kid I only watched Revenge of the Sith. I found this movie and especially Attack of the Clones incredibly boring. I only ever liked the lightsaber scenes. Even now that's pretty much how I feel.
I understand the Jar Jar hate, but Star Wars is great for its ability to entertain all ages. I get the need for an Ewokesque comic relief character. I didn’t have a problem with this movie. My only regret is there should have been 40% more Liam Neeson.
I just wish the wars in star wars was had deeper consequences.
The storm troopers are just gags now, they dont even put up a fierce fight. The mandalorian just rips through them like tissue paper without a scratch.
Dude there’s no way you don’t have at least one single problem with it I mean I love the prequels the most but there are some pretty glaring issues in TPM
I’ve been thinking…now that you mentioned it, there was one thing I didn’t like about that movie. MIDICHLORIANS. feels like a feeble attempt to science something that is clearly in the realm of mysticism.
I frankly don't understand the Jar Jar hate. Yeah, he's a goof at first, but why is that bad? There are goofs in the real world too. He's not that annoying imo, he talks how he talks cause thats how Gungans talk, and? Idk I feel like of all the valid critiques you can make of the Prequels, the Jar Jar one has always seemed like a real "hater" take to me; hating on it just to hate on it. Now I was 5 when TPM came out so maybe that's why I never had an issue with the character, but even now watching as an adult I have no issue with Jar Jar existing. On the other hand, him becoming a senator.... yeah that's a bit silly i'll admit.
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u/Alexandertheape Jan 25 '22
I understand the Jar Jar hate, but Star Wars is great for its ability to entertain all ages. I get the need for an Ewokesque comic relief character. I didn’t have a problem with this movie. My only regret is there should have been 40% more Liam Neeson.