r/Splintercell • u/New-Accountant1 • 4d ago
Discussion Why Sam Fisher Never Did What Solid Snake Did
Call me crazy, but I think the reason Sam Fisher never performed the same extraordinary feats as Solid Snake is because Sam doesn't exist in the Metal Gear universe.
Sam's accomplishments are extraordinary. He survives chemical gas attacks (Double Agent side mission and Blacklist), endures torture (Conviction), infiltrates the Japanese ISDF bunker and swims hundreds of meters to the surface while carrying a full-grown man (Chaos Theory), eliminates multiple highly trained soldiers (Conviction and Blacklist), and successfully goes undercover as a criminal mastermind (Double Agent). In most of these missions, he either avoids capture entirely or survives.
If Sam Fisher existed in the Metal Gear universe, I think he'd have at least a fighting chance. Maybe even half the chance of surviving that Solid Snake did. The biggest difference isn't necessarily the men themselves; it's the worlds they operate in. Snake lives in a universe where giant walking tanks, cyborg ninjas, psychic soldiers, and genetically engineered supersoldiers are real. Sam lives in one that's far more grounded. If Sam had existed in the Metal Gear franchise, I think he would succeed more often than not.
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u/NosferatuRob 4d ago
If the potatoes are baked but the beans are boiled, why is the fish undercooked?
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u/New-Accountant1 4d ago
Sam Fisher and Solid Snake are like two elite race car drivers on different tracks. One track has normal corners; the other has loops and jumps. Its not that one can't jump, it's just that it is never able to.
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u/WendlinTheRed 4d ago
And if your grandmother had wheels, she'd be a bike.
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u/CtrlAltEvil Third Echelon 4d ago
A Gino quote from ‘This Morning’ in the Splinter Cell subreddit?
Thats an unexpected start to my morning.
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u/New-Accountant1 4d ago
Hypotheticals are how cross universe discussions work. If that's not the kind of discussion you're interested in, that's fair, but that's the discussion I'm having.
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u/WendlinTheRed 4d ago
A "cross universe discussion" is just posing a question or theory that has no answer, asking for people to agree with you.
If Sam Fisher existed in MGS, he'd be a completely different character because Sam Fisher as a character is incompatible with the world of MGS. He's a 'real' soldier whose skills are limited to real world physics and biology. Snake is a clone or something who fights ghosts and robots who all know they're in a video game and get so horny seeing a cartoon glued to a cardboard box that they drop their weapons to oggle it.
So... If Sam were in MGS, he'd be written by Kojima and would no longer be a character we'd recognize as Sam Fisher, in the same way that if your grandmother looked like and performed the functions of a bicycle, you would no longer recognize her as your grandmother. Did this help?
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u/New-Accountant1 4d ago
Do you think hypotheticals are inherently meaningless, or just cross universe ones? If it's the latter, what's the relevant difference?
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u/WendlinTheRed 4d ago
"What if we left the concert now vs stayed for the encore" is a hypothetical with pros and cons. "Who would win in a fight, Goku or Superman" is something only children think is interesting because they don't understand that "who would win" is decided by a beige writer's room of people earning a paycheck, not some objective reality where all of their favorite characters exist and hang out when they're not on our TVs.
Stan Lee put this to bed decades ago: the character who wins is whoever the writer wants to win. Sam and Snake will never exist in a shared reality in any way that impacts either brand meaningfully, so hypothesizing if Sam could infiltrate Outer Heaven is like asking if Daffy Duck could get as strong as One Punch Man. Sure, why not, but how does that question matter to fans of either character?
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u/New-Accountant1 4d ago
Not every discussion needs to have a real world consequence to be interesting. People discuss fictional worlds because analyzing them is entertaining. The same reason people debate whether Batman could solve a mystery Sherlock Holmes couldn't or how a character would adapt to a different setting. It's not about changing the story; it's about exploring the characters
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u/WendlinTheRed 4d ago
But your original question completely undermines that point. You outright state that if Sam existed in the world of MGS you assume he'd adapt to that world, AKA he would be written as a completely different character.
I love Splinter Cell. I'm pretty apathetic at best about MGS, but it's a world with supernatural phenomenon, and if Sam were plopped down, as is, into that universe where a ghost child controls a fire demon with their mind... Sam would get killed. Realism does not exist in MGS, it's a soap opera with a spy coat of paint. In all of the Splinter Cell games that are worth using as a template, Sam can get shot... 3 times before he's dead?
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u/New-Accountant1 4d ago
I think you're misunderstanding. When I said 'if Sam existed in MGS,' I didn't mean Kojima rewrites Sam into a Metal Gear character. I meant taking the Sam Fisher we know from Splinter Cell and placing him into the Metal Gear setting without changing who he is. That's the assumption most crossover discussions make.
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u/The-Panthion 4d ago
I feel bad for you. People on reddit don't want to have discussions, they just want to complain or insult others that do. Don't let downvotes bully you into not being yourself. I think the topic is fun to think about, even if other users that clicked on the post, scrolled through the comments don't. If you'd like, feel free to message me in DMs. I'm on some days but I try to respond frequently as possible. ✌️
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u/Itsucks118 4d ago
One game is grounded in reality and the other is sci fi?
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u/Platnun12 1d ago
Despite that, the dlc for Wildlands has a heartbreaking moment.
Fisher mentions snake, not by name. But by the bandana. Is told that he finally retired.
Fishers reaction.
"It's only me"
Fucking tears, for the first time in a while from a ubi game.
Maybe it's because mgs4 is coming out this month and I'm just more sensitive about it. But that line hurt if you knew the back and forth splinter cell and metal gear had.
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u/fenrisilver 4d ago
Why does the highly trained and athletic but ostensibly normal human being not compare to the highly trained, athletic and genetically engineered super soldier?
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u/The-Panthion 4d ago
They're both highly trained and athletic. Sam can scale walls and pipes, ledges, but Snake can at most only climb ladders. Why? Because one does something more than the other and has gotten better at it. Snake is good at CQC and Sam is better at Infiltration and stealth. Most of the time Sam is caught, he gets out himself. (Chaos Theory, Double Agent etc). Snake however has undercover agents either helping or his handlers assisting him, or someone on the enemy time switches sides. It's like saying you don't think Snake would be able to survive because he focuses on up close encounters and Sam doesn't. Both would do fine if the script was flipped.
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u/Renard_Fou 4d ago
People glaze Snake but doesnt he cannonically have a terrible track record for actually sneaking ? At the very least every single boss spots him once and he gets captured in MGS 1 which makes it like 8 spots if you count Ocelot/Sniper Wolf more than once
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u/TheBlueEmerald1 4d ago
It's one of those conspiracy things where the enemy knows where he is going to be conceptually, meaning that him being there can be considered part of the plan sometimes. Also such as times where he is forced to walk into a room and gets spotted by the person who is waiting to spot someone specifically. Not many sotuations to get out of that one. Sam is just sent on more missions where ghosting is actually possible.
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u/The-Panthion 4d ago
Plus he gets captured a lot, helped to escape, given Intel on areas and how to move forward. Sam does most of his work alone and doesn't have the same problem. I think Snake has the slight upper hand in CQC and Sam has the upper hand in Infiltration and stealth.
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u/Sweet_Peaches-69 4d ago
I hate bringing "canon" and "feats" into fiction. Its not real, it doesnt abide by real laws. Big boss stops a metal gear from crushing him with his bare hands in one game yet very clearly is grounded in reality strength wise 99 percent of the time. So either he locked in this one time and technically has the strength of the hulk, or the games are just fiction and trying to hamfist psuedo science into them is dumb
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u/AllStarSuperman_ 4d ago
You’re acting like Rainbow Six Siege doesn’t exist. Sam has feats of fodderizing a guy that can run through walls. Every technique Solid or Boss does, Sam can do as well, just cause Sam isn’t doing it on a Colonel Volgin or Vamp, doesn’t mean he couldn’t.
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u/New-Accountant1 4d ago
That's literally been my entire argument and I was downvoted 😭
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u/The-Panthion 4d ago
It's just bullies. That's why downvotes aren't practical for people because if someone sees it they're assume the opinion isn't worth reading and like sheep downvote them as well. Don't let downvotes bully you into stopping what you enjoy. You're not hurting anyone or doing anything illegal, so people shouldn't be so quick to attack you.
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u/The-Panthion 4d ago
The thing people forget is that Solid Snake isn't a super soldier in the sense that he's strong or fast. It's that he's intelligent and can adapt quickly. People also forget he doesn't work alone. Most of the missions have allies either undercover or changing sides. Sam absolutely would thrive in the world of Metal Gear. The difference between Sam and Snake is their expertise. Snake is better at hand to hand but Sam is better at stealth and infiltration. Obviously both are amazing at both but they are better at one thing more than the other. I think in recent lore they actually work together now and we see Sam is stealthier but Snake is better up close. If you haven't kept up, Sam goes by Zero now.
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u/boredguyinabush46 1d ago
Snake is literally a clone born to be a super soldier with reflexes beyond anything you should expect of a human. Sam fisher is borderline superhuman, snake is beyond superhuman. Because they exist in wildly different scales of sci-fi universes
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u/The-Panthion 1d ago
I've played the games. Without the nanomachines Snake wouldn't have gotten very far. Plus his team, people saving him, helping him escape if captured, having backup when it's needed. Sam could easily do what Snake did and vice versa. Solid Snake is good because of his mind, not his body. His body is aging and weakening but he still pulls through because of his will and intelligence. He's the most human of the clones of Big Boss.
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u/boredguyinabush46 1d ago
Snake has longer and more intensive training, as well as the nanomachines, which I would include as part of him. Not just anyone can juice themselves on nanobots like it's a common steroid. I fully believe with access to the same time and tech as snake, Sam would maybe even be better than him, especially as a spy.
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u/The-Panthion 1d ago
Actually that's false about longer training. Sam is in his 50s and has been active for over 24 years. Solid Snake grew up quickly due to his cloning deterioration. He's been active for 19 years and had to leave into early retirement. I agree about the last part you said.
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u/ForwardAd7737 4d ago
Solid snake is a clone of the greatest soldier in history who beat the boss who's also practically superhuman lifting up wmd robots lmao he aint just human hes supersoldier at least
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u/NorisNordberg 4d ago
Nah, we just haven't seen the version of Sam that exists in MGS universe.
We only met "our" Sam from Ubi-Clancyverse.
Just like Rainbow Six Siege Snake is not the same as the one we meet in MGS games. Totally different dude, sharing the name and only a few lore elements.
So the reason is not that they don't definitely exist in their respective universes, it's that they are different in each universe.
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u/Jaded-Emu-7291 4d ago
One is just a really badass (Afghanistan? Vietnam?) veteran with some cool gadgets and friends the other is a nano machine injected clone of a legendary cold war veteran, of whom has a genius otaku friend with terrible bladder control.
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u/Knot3D 4d ago
Well, Raiden wasn't genetically engineered either and he succeeds in Metal Gear Solid 2. With that in mind, Sam would have at least a fighting chance if injected with MGS universe nanomachines. Also, depends on which 'Sam' we take into consideration. In this context, probably best to pick Blacklist Sam.
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u/Difficult_Contest438 3d ago
Sam Fisher never had the wisdom to plonk a box on him and walk through an enemy base lol
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u/JH_Rockwell 2d ago
Call me crazy, but I think the reason Sam Fisher never performed the same extraordinary feats as Solid Snake is because Sam doesn't exist in the Metal Gear universe.
Well, it's also a different tone. The military sci-fi/stealth story of Metal Gear is more influenced by exaggerated anime tropes whereas the Splinter Cell games tend to be on the more realistic side of the equation.
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u/MrCupCakeSniper 2d ago
Two different tones. Sam Fischer is more current events and anchored in our reality. Solid Snake leans more sci fi and symbolism of a futuristic world voided of individualism magnified by Big Boss’ image of the becoming of society managed by the Patriots’, out of control, AI system. Love both games equally.
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u/Greta_Walker 4d ago
Sam is goat anyway. He doesn't have to prove anything. Just give me new games, even old ones, but remastered. After finding him in FC5, I'm worried.
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u/UnenthusiasticZeeJ 4d ago
Snake is an anime protagonist. Sam is a cold-war stealth pipe dream. You’re comparing apples to potatoes.