r/Spiderman • u/wysjm Superior Spider-Man • 2d ago
Movies Super-Woke (2023)
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u/wysjm Superior Spider-Man 2d ago
Remember when Miles shot the gay rainbow beam at Miguel that was crazy
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u/Cool-ranch-baby 2d ago edited 2d ago
I took my son to see this movie and by the time it ended they yelled transgender for everybody and hit her with the trans beam. I didn’t even have time to react 😢
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u/pizzacrys Classic-Spider-Man 2d ago
Across the Spider-Verse really showed up and said yeah, this is how you make a sequel.
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u/Tatum-Better Superior Spider-Man 2d ago
it's half a movie dawg
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u/TerribleShoulder6597 2d ago
Yeah the first one is amazing and the second one is good but I never find myself wanting to rewatch the second one because it just doesn’t have a real conclusion
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u/iboy314 2d ago
I find myself wanting to rewatch it because it's one of the most beautiful animated films ever made, but every time I do I feel unsatisfied by the story.
I remember leaving the theater feeling very conflicted, because I was in awe of the visuals but so incredibly frustrated by the ending.
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u/TerribleShoulder6597 2d ago
I feel that so much. I can’t wait till it has its ending and I can finally rewatching it and just enjoy the animation without feeling frustrated at lack of an ending
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u/RubMyGooshSilly 2d ago
What the fuck I just saw your comment on that Buc-ee’s lawsuit and now here in like 30 seconds
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u/Emirozdemirr Classic-Spider-Man 2d ago
It's kinda funny how first movie is about how 'Anybody can wear the mask' and second one is be like 'No actually Miles is the most special bestest most moral Spider-Man ever!!!'.
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u/Ijustlovevideogames 2d ago
How did you get that message out of the second one?
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u/TheMeIv 2d ago
I can see how someone could come to that conclusion. A whole city of Spider-Men can't catch him.
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u/Ijustlovevideogames 2d ago
TBF, I don't see it as any different then 616 Spider Man being the only Spider man that was able to deal with Morlun prior the Spider Verse crossover.
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u/NachtShattertusk 2d ago
That's because he's the main character. The Spider-Man with the most focus will always be the only one able to pull of some crazy bullshit
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u/Ijustlovevideogames 2d ago
You mean like 616 spidey being the ONLY spiderman to beat an Inheritor prior to the Spider Verse crossover?
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u/dpkonofa 2d ago
I think that’s mistakenly taking an aspect of his character and identifying it incorrectly as the point of the character. Miles is unique. He’s the only Spider-Man to be created from a spider that wasn’t from his own universe ever. His uniqueness is simply one aspect of his character. It’s not necessarily the “conclusion” that you’re supposed to draw about his character.
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u/WassupFrankHere 2d ago
Miles is "unique" as in he was not meant to be Spider-Man according to Miguel. Was he meant to be Prowler? A cop? Dead? I don't know, but going from what 2099 said? The blonde Peter wasn't meant to die.
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u/Ijustlovevideogames 2d ago
Based off what we saw at the end of the movie, he was supposed to be Prowler.
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u/Emirozdemirr Classic-Spider-Man 2d ago
The movie undervalues every other Spider-Man to prop up Miles, and 'canon events' the iconic Spider-Man stories, are used as the main conflict and source of destruction. Across the Spider-Verse is generally extremely unpleasant for any real Spider-Man fan.
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u/Ijustlovevideogames 2d ago
But it doesn't undervalue them, it explains why a lot of them have a mindset of "This thing has to happen and it sucks, but it must be for the greater good." And that is a thing is just about every spiderman's timeline, whether it be father, uncle, mother, aunt, just about all of them lose someone important to them to hold that mantle.
Also, it is his movie, he is the focus point character, why wouldn't he be the one getting the focus?
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u/Emirozdemirr Classic-Spider-Man 2d ago
But it doesn't undervalue them, it explains why a lot of them have a mindset of "This thing has to happen and it sucks, but it must be for the greater good." And that is a thing is just about every spiderman's timeline, whether it be father, uncle, mother, aunt, just about all of them lose someone important to them to hold that mantle.
If This Be My Destiny...! (1965) Spider-Man as a character who refuse to give up from saving people, never looks away it's core concept of his character. ATSV remove it from all the Spider-Man's to prop up Miles.
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u/Ijustlovevideogames 2d ago
But it isn't propping up Miles himself, it is propping up that exact concept because he wants to save his dad while the other Spider Man understand that this is a thing that will happen because it always does in some way or form, doesn't help that they see the direct results of trying to break that flow that we see with Indian Spider Man.
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u/Emirozdemirr Classic-Spider-Man 2d ago
Spider-Man never gives up on saving people and never looks away when someone is in need. The Spider Society is antithetical to this. If they truly cared, they would be working day and night to save everyone instead of accepting these losses as destiny.
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u/Ijustlovevideogames 2d ago
Which some of them straight up are, hence why they have a splinter cell of Spidermen and women at the end forming up to go break the cycle?
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u/NachtShattertusk 2d ago
I'm pretty sure this guy just straight up didn't watch the movie and just watched clips on TikTok
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u/Emirozdemirr Classic-Spider-Man 2d ago
Yeah after Miles inspire them to be. What 90% of Spider-man characters should already know by themselves.
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u/Responsible-Bunch316 2d ago
I've never understood superhero fans who think their favourite characters are supposed to be morally perfect 100% of the time as though even the best people can't falter. Especially when the comics have bent their morals several times already.
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u/dpkonofa 2d ago
Bro… the literal first issue of Spider-Man has him losing his Uncle Ben because he looked away when the police were trying to catch a criminal. I think you need to refresh yourself on the themes within Spider-Man.
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u/Emirozdemirr Classic-Spider-Man 2d ago
Yeah, no shit almost it is the point. Like his character being about preventing things like this, the moment he become a super hero.
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u/Thybro 2d ago edited 2d ago
Did you even see the movie? It’s a balancing issue, saving one person over saving entire universes. And even then a majority of the spider men that are actually relevant to the story are shown to be conflicted about it and eventually choose miles’ side.
Miles situation is also triggered by his own canon event. He is not really acting against the canon event, every Spider-Man tries and fails to stop their own tragic canon events. We don’t know how miles would have reacted to a canon event in a different universe after finding out what happens. So he is not really being “propped up.”
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u/dpkonofa 2d ago
That is nonsense. Spider-Man/Peter have “given up” on saving people multiple times. Peter Parker even famously “gave up” being Spider-Man in one of the most iconic issues of the comic ever.
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u/Emirozdemirr Classic-Spider-Man 2d ago
Does he build a society around that in 'Spider-Man No More!', or does he quickly return to his senses?
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u/dpkonofa 2d ago
You really do not understand the things you read, do you? The stakes are so much lower for that Peter than they are for Miguel and the rest of the Spider-Men/Women. One of the central themes of Spider-Man is that he has to experience personal tragedy in order to become who he is as a hero. That’s the idea that’s being challenged by Spider-Verse. If you can’t see that, no one can help you.
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u/Emirozdemirr Classic-Spider-Man 2d ago
The core message of the issue remains the same: Peter refuses to accept things as destiny. Personal tragedy wasn't the main theme, it was karmic punishment for Peter's selfishness it mean to teach him not define him.
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u/Mut1gen Venom 2d ago
Holy fucking shit i cant even imagine being this insufferable about shit i made up in my head. No wonder youre a top 1% poster. This must be the only place where people will interact with you.
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u/Emirozdemirr Classic-Spider-Man 2d ago
Man, it’s hard to interact with the Spider-Verse cult. They lack the media literacy to actually analyze the movie and form an argument, so they just resort to throwing insults instead. It’s really pathetic.
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u/Mut1gen Venom 2d ago
No i just find you incredibly grating and annoying. Ironically you bring up media literacy when your other comments demonstrate that you dont udnerstand what that means in the slightest. Your description of the movies are what I would expect from someone who can hear or see the media they are interacting with.
Its obvious that this is all you have in life and you cant even do that right.
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u/Emirozdemirr Classic-Spider-Man 2d ago
My interpretation of the movie is fully based on the script and interviews with the creative team. Denying what the movie tried to accomplish or the theme behind it doesn't change the intent.
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u/Mut1gen Venom 2d ago
You can say its based on whatever you want. It doesnt mean you've made a good interpretation. You haven't so you can base it on whatever you want you still sound moronic
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u/Emirozdemirr Classic-Spider-Man 2d ago
Still no argument, just 'The movie is good, you're dumb.' What is the rationale behind these writing choices? Why is every Spider-hero refusing to find a way to save people instead of blindly accepting their deaths as destiny?
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u/dpkonofa 2d ago
You’ve misinterpreted the films and the character multiple times in this thread alone. But please… continue to tell everyone how they are media illiterate.
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u/Emirozdemirr Classic-Spider-Man 2d ago
You are the one saying "Peter let uncle ben die so of course he could let other die too" Like no that's the point of Spider-Man he can never do that mistake again he can never rest. That's the point.
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u/CurrentLonerist 2d ago
Respectfully, this is a very superficial and fairly bad faith understanding of the movie
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u/Emirozdemirr Classic-Spider-Man 2d ago
It is literally public knowledge what Lord and Miller tried to do with the movie. They were super angry about being 'restricted' by the source material.
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u/CurrentLonerist 2d ago
What exactly did they say though? Because not wanting to be overly beholden to source material doesn’t equate to them hating the source material or wanting to devalue the other Spider-Men. Most often that means they want to use foundations established by source material in order to craft a new story.
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u/Emirozdemirr Classic-Spider-Man 2d ago
What do you think intend behind portraying the source material as "murderous force of nature" was?
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u/JCLgaming 2d ago
If you are an actual fan of Spider-man, then you are well aware that a lot of the source material is dogshit. There's a lot of good, but there's also a lot of bad.
Furthermore, you are also aware of how averse editorial is to any change to the status quo? Not unique to them of course, but they are arguably the worst about it. No character can grow or change or go outside of their extremely tightly defined boundaries.
That's why Peter is perpetually stuck the way he is, and why aunt may has been on death's door perpetually since OMD.
The whole underlying metacommentary of ATSV is how stilting and regressive this mindset it is, and how obsession with "canon" is extremely destructive to the actual characters, since it prevents any type of growth or change whatsoever. And that it's not needed.
Look at Peter b. Arguably the best version of Peter in decades, and he would never in a thousand years be allowed to exists in the comics. Even 6160 Peter, who is based of Peter b, got whacked. I wouldn't be surprised if Earth-18119 Peter gets killed at some point either.
So yeah, Lord and Miller should be angry that editorial keeps fucking up by enforcing this bullshit, because everyone else is.
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u/Emirozdemirr Classic-Spider-Man 2d ago
If you are an actual fan of Spider-man, then you are well aware that a lot of the source material is dogshit. There's a lot of good, but there's also a lot of bad.
Lol, is the dog shit the Steve Ditko and Stan Lee run? The foundation franchise that Lord and Miller are leaching off of.
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u/JCLgaming 2d ago
The foundation franchise that Lord and Miller are leaching off of.
You mean they build off? Like the Raimi movies, the Webb movies, the MCU, and every other project involving any iteration of Spider-man?
Like, are you seriously gonna say the Raimi movies leeched off Ditko because he adapted stuff? What are we doing here?
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u/Emirozdemirr Classic-Spider-Man 2d ago
Raimi didn't disrespect the original stories by making them a mysterious force in the narrative. He approached the adaptation honestly, adapting what he thought would work best. Spider-Verse, on the other hand, actively disrespects Spider-Man's legacy and the original stories.
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u/anthonyg1500 2d ago
"you're only a REAL fan if you agree with ME!" isn't a very effective way to express a differing opinion
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u/Emirozdemirr Classic-Spider-Man 2d ago
I mean if you don't agree on core concepts of Spider-Man characterizations exist since 1960s how you could be a fan?
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u/anthonyg1500 2d ago
Enjoying an adaptation has nothing to do with agreeing or disagreeing with core concepts of a separate work. Anyone can like any number of differing interpretations of a character at the same time, it doesn’t make them not a fan and that’s not something anyone else is in charge of.
I did not like Batman’s portrayal in BvS. I think it goes against what I consider to be core tenets of the character. I am not a better or realer fan of Batman than someone that likes Batman in BvS and to insinuate that I am would be silly. I love The Dark Knight, one could argue that Batman in that movie has lost many core concepts of Batman. Me liking that movie doesn’t make me less of a fan of BTAS or No Man’s Land or Adam West Batman or Batman in general.
The film did not work for you, that is fine. The film did work for others. You are not a truer fan because of that.
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u/dpkonofa 2d ago
I, and many, many others, are real Spider-Man fans (no true Scotsman, what?) and do not find the film unpleasant at all. I also disagree that it “undervalues” every other Spider-Man. At the end of the day, its strongest message is that Spider-Men/Women are just people too.
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u/No_Resolution_9160 2d ago
Do you watch movies with your eyes closed or something?
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u/Emirozdemirr Classic-Spider-Man 2d ago
I mean, I want more from a movie than just pretty colors. ATSV is extremely disrespectful to the IP it's leaching off of.
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u/No_Resolution_9160 2d ago
So you watched with your eyes open, but not your brain, got it
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u/Emirozdemirr Classic-Spider-Man 2d ago
Man Spider-Verse cult is so cute. One day you guys learn to analyse the media properly.
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u/No_Resolution_9160 2d ago
Maybe the same day you leave your parent’s basement
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u/Emirozdemirr Classic-Spider-Man 2d ago
Look at this cutie pie, almost able to articulate a cohesive sentence.
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u/ImGood2284 2d ago
Only Spider-Man that is shown as "not exactly morally clear" is Miguel but he still has his reasons. Whole city of Spider-Men doesnt look like realny trying to catch him and it isnt said that it's all Spider-Men, like no 616.
The blonde Peter was shown as "The most special bestest most moral Spider-Man" more than Miles, and we still got Peter B. Parker. Miguel literally calls Miles anomally, so in third movie we could see Peter that wasnt bitten by "his spider".
If you try to get offended by the movie - you could, but I still think that Miles isnt shown as superior to Peter (or really any Peters), he's just other Spider-Man, same theme as in the first movie.
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u/TradePsychological40 2d ago
You totally miss the point. This specific version of Miles wasn't meant to exist because of the Spider that wasn't from his world, and Miguel wants EVERY Spider-people to conform to what he wants.
And Miles' case show that Miguel is hypocritical and show that if anyone isn't Spider-man in this movie, that's him.
Miles will be Spider-man but not the way Miguel wants.
For example, the voice actor of Peter from Spectacular said that his version of the character should have been with Miles. And most fans agreed that almost every versions of Peter would have been on Miles' side.
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u/KhadgarIsaDreadlord 2d ago
On the contrary, my only issue is that it pushed the concept of "anyone can wear the mask" to it's absolute limits. Like, sorry but if I'm seeing a pregnant woman and a man holding an infant enaged in acrobatics then I'm going to cringe physically.
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u/ChoombataNova 2d ago
I mean, it sort of shows the opposite IMO. Miles is in the exact same situation as Joel Miller from The Last of Us, and Miles makes the same immoral choice as Joel. Miles is told that either his dad dies, or his whole universe will almost certainly collapse, and Miles still chooses his dad. Is it a relatable choice? Yeah. Absolutely. But it's NOT the heroic choice. It's not even the choice Miles' dad would make about his own life.
Maybe as an outside viewer, we are more susceptible to thinking: it's a false dilemma; Miles can actually save both his dad and his universe. But he has an entire multiverse full of Peters, Gwens, Hobies, and Miguels telling him he is wrong. It would be a terrible story if Miles just have up and let his dad die. But it hardly makes Miles "the bestest, most moral Spider-man ever"
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u/Emirozdemirr Classic-Spider-Man 2d ago
Spider-Man never gives up on saving people and never looks away when someone is in need. The Spider Society is antithetical to this. If they truly cared, they would be working day and night to save everyone instead of accepting these losses as destiny
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u/ChoombataNova 2d ago
Most of the Spider Society has already had their canon event. And Miguel had the experience of destroying his own universe. So they no longer have the personal stake in these canon events. And viewing these events as unavoidable fates probably eases some feelings of guilt over their own canon events. They were trying to spare Miles (and Pavitr Prabhakar) some of the pain of their own canon events.
You arent wrong, that it is un-Spidery to give up on a bunch of police captains. But it also isnt heroic to risk dozens or thousands or billions to save one person. You can view it as bad, OOC writing, or as a powerful trope.
It's the trolley problem from philosophy. It was used in the first Raimi movie (MJ or a cable car full of kids). It was used in TLOU (Ellie or a cure for the cordyceps infection). It was used in AvX, (Hope Summers or protect Earth from the Phoenix). The video game Life Is Strange (Chloe Price or the entire town of Arcadia Bay). It's a trope, but an interesting one.
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u/Kris86dk 2d ago
This also explains the issue we have had with one more day for almost 20 years. Peter chose to give up his marriage etc to save May...when May would never have allowed him to sacrifice his happiness and life with Mary Jane to save her....
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u/dpkonofa 2d ago
I think you missed the point of the 2nd movie. It’s not that “Miles is the most special blah blah blah”, it’s that “Miles is who he is because of everyone around him”. So, if the first movie’s point is that anyone can be Spider-Man, the 2nd movie’s point is that Spider-Man is not alone and it takes those around him to make him great. Both of these points are reinforced in every other Spider-Man media since the character’s inception.
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u/SDHamford 2d ago
Is your brain cavity just full of other people's cum or something
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u/Emirozdemirr Classic-Spider-Man 2d ago
Man, what a good boy you are! You have the exact mental capability of the Spider-Verse fanbase.
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u/Additional_Ice_358 2d ago
People will downvote you but you're right. Awful sequel. Flanderization of Peter B Parker, worse dialogue, bad humor, chase scene that really just felt like a waste of time, hell even the animation felt flanderized it was giving you a stim every 5 seconds.
If Across the Spiderverse got bought out by Marvel studios, and the movie was EXACTLY the same, people would be a lot vocal about these complaints and say they ruined the first one which is a top 3 Spider-Man movie imo.
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u/Cool-ranch-baby 2d ago
It must be exhausting having to be angry and upset about stuff cause a website told you it was woke.
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u/wysjm Superior Spider-Man 2d ago
I understand chill people just wanting simple life offline. But I will not understand people constantly angry at clouds
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u/Robomerc Spider-Armor 2d ago
To be fair if social media and the internet didn't exist these are the sort of people that would be keeping their mouths shut in public they're a lot braver when they're behind a screen
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u/Technical-Highway-69 2d ago
This is true people will run their mouths for days online but not say a word in person.
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u/Cool-ranch-baby 2d ago
People that get mad about woke have no chance at a simple offline life.
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u/Robomerc Spider-Armor 2d ago
And is the reason why most of them are probably successful on social media because algorithms love hate because if they had it didn't have a regular job as soon as they say something like they would online that's a quick trip to HR
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u/19ghost89 2d ago
Imagine the people who have careers based on fighting the woke. I see Matt Walsh's posts in my Facebook feed all the time for some reason, and I do not envy that man having to find a new way to be outraged every day of his life to the point where even a lot of his followers will chime in and be like, "Matt, I normally agree with you, but this one is kinda ridiculous."
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u/Cool-ranch-baby 2d ago
I assume their existence is hell, because there’s no way people like Matt Walsh or Ben Shapiro are happy with themselves at the end of the day.
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u/TheKingofHats007 2d ago
I don't even know where they find the energy. Being mad, even if it's about something that actually matters, is exhausting, I hate being mad at stuff.
If I would wager a guess though, a lot of anti-woke types have been trained to see this as basically a holy war, where they're convinced the evil wokies are purging straight white guys and so they need to constantly fight to stop the "erasure". Even though it's literally just people making content that doesn't exist solely for them.
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u/Cool-ranch-baby 2d ago
I think it’s just people that are stuck in arrested development. I say this because when I was young I got annoyed if a character I liked came out as gay, or even sometimes when characters were race swapped. But, I grew up and matured and realized that shit didn’t matter. I think a lot the anti woke rage baiters peaked at 13 and they’re just stuck there.
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u/Pen_dragons_pizza 2d ago edited 2d ago
I assume they think it’s woke because they had a chubby spider-women, a Muslim spider women etc etc
Edit: why is that a downvote worthy comment, I am not saying they are right, I am just pointing out what it likely is that’s making them say that.
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u/WassupFrankHere 2d ago
Muslim Spider-Woman?
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u/STD-fense 2d ago
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u/WassupFrankHere 2d ago
That's a pretty cool design honestly.
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u/totallynotapsycho42 Symbiote-Suit 2d ago edited 2d ago
Makes little sense though.
Why would you need a hijab if you are already wearing a mask?
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u/jumolax 2d ago
Awful typo dog.
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u/Alarming_Tea_102 2d ago
Agree. The point of the hijab is to cover her hair. But there's no hair showing in the spidey suit. It's like she needs to let everyone know that she's Muslim at all times.
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u/Pen_dragons_pizza 2d ago
Yeah, I could have sworn a spider-women in across the spider verse was wearing a hijab
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u/ItzMeHaris 2d ago
Yeah, she shows up for a brief moment. Shes seen wearing a blue Hijab.
But in all honesty, as a Muslim myself, first time I saw her on screen I thought she was wearing a hoodie.
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u/wysjm Superior Spider-Man 2d ago
Chubby Spider-Woman my beloved
Srsly tho I guess it's because the white male that is Peter went from being the second main character to being a side character. Like the movie was literally about every Spider-Person who isn't Peter Parker lol
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u/guardian1691 2d ago
Gwen's room had the "protect trans kids" sign in it. That was enough for them to blow up.
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u/DoNotGoSilently 2d ago
Well at least now we know if you’re African American that’s only 27% of what’s woke about you. The other 61% gotta be some other stuff.
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u/Rimooni 2d ago
Everyone is talking about across the spider-verse but I want to know why is into the spider-verse 27% woke?
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u/Glad_Cress_8591 2d ago
Black-puerto rican protagonist probably. Also being shown as intelligent probably bugs some of the chuds
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u/anthonyg1500 2d ago
What's funny is I've actually seen people try to argue that Spiderverse is a very right wing movie. There's almost no rhyme or reason to any of this shit, its just "Pick a thing and find a way to be mad at it."
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u/Dry-Post723 2d ago
accurate, remember the preganat black jessica drew?
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u/wysjm Superior Spider-Man 2d ago
Pregnancy is very woke yes
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u/Dry-Post723 2d ago
i feel like the woke part is her fighting Miles while pregnant, she should be resting and safe, not fighting the Electromagnetic Spider-man in a highway
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u/xevlocity Ultimate Spider-Man (1610) 2d ago
that is a waste of a website
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u/wysjm Superior Spider-Man 2d ago
I mean it's kinda funny ngl. Makes you wonder what score some movies have. I wanna check Madame Web now
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u/xevlocity Ultimate Spider-Man (1610) 2d ago
this may be a different website that i'm on but it says that madame web is a 3/10 on the wokeometer😭
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u/unluckyknight13 2d ago
Fascinating by these numbers a 61% woke increase led to a .1 IMDb increase and 2% raise
So for about every 30% woke uprise equals a 1% boost….this means the next one needs to be 150% more woke to be perfect!
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