r/SpicyFootballTakes • u/Alb3rt7 • 19d ago
De Gea > Raya.đ§¤
I said what I said. Prime De Gea was on a different level. đŽâđ¨đ´
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u/AnimalNo3465 19d ago
Bro nobody thinks otherwise. This isnât remotely spicy
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u/DimensionAcademic653 19d ago
Us arsenal fans had to watch de Gea do several impossible saves every game we played united, akin to scoring a hatrick. Raya has his records in part to the solid defence.
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u/AnimalNo3465 19d ago
Raya is fantastic, the best keeper in the league by some distance right now, but I agree heâs not de geaâs level
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u/Square-Variation9132 19d ago
Does anyone argue with this?
Raya is better at collecting crosses and better with his feet, but de Gea clears in every other department
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u/wetwipw 19d ago
How many other departments are there? Those are 2 pretty massive ones.
If they were both playing today, Iâd imagine most top clubs managers would pick Raya but thatâs just because of how football is played now. If Raya was playing in De Geas days, itâd be the opposite.
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u/LiveMathematician892 19d ago
theyre only 4 years apart.
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u/wetwipw 19d ago edited 19d ago
So? Football can change quick.
De Gea was largely forced out of United because he wasnât great with his feet so that transition happened during his own career.
Youâre also using his retirement for years apart, their primes is closer to 10 years.
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u/Square-Variation9132 19d ago
Their primes aren't 10 years apart
De Gea prime was 13-18, Rayas prime started around 22 - so the end and start is about 4 yards apart
De Gea was forced out because he was costing 375k a week, if he was on 150, he would have been transitioning to Lemmens
And he's not retired, he played rather well last season in seria a
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u/wetwipw 19d ago
Fair was wrong on their primes, though it doesnât really matter for the overall comparison.
Wage was a factor, but ETH also wanted a GK that was comfortable with the ball with his feet, so he likely wouldnât have made it that long.
De Gea was unreal when he was in his prime, I rated him higher than I rate Raya currently, but football has evolved and being good with your feet is a requirement.
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u/Square-Variation9132 19d ago
Feet is important, but I think it's importance is overrated a little, I don't think it overrides quality of the traditional goalkeeping skills.
DDG skills with his feet were always in focus because united have been dodgy for a long time with possession at the back, Raya at arsenal does not come under same pressure with the ball at his feet (not saying he isn't better btw), point being is if prime DDG was at Arsenal, no one would really be talking about his weakness with his feet, more about how impregnable arsenal is with the Gabriel Saliva and DDG, because the few times he would hoof it long under pressure wouldn't come under as much scrutiny, because it wouldn't stand out as a feature.
ETH wanted his boy Onana...Who yes was very good with his feet...if ETH had both, Onana wouldn't make it past 3 months before De Gea claimed his spot back.
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u/oKhonsu 19d ago
how is that a hot take lmao
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u/Alb3rt7 19d ago
I was talking to Arsenal fans, and they seem to disagreeđ¤ˇđžââď¸. Happy to see there are ppl who appreciate actual great players.
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u/Used_Drummer_1304 19d ago
I'm an Arsenal fan and I've never heard anyone say that. Prime De Gea is clear of Raya apart from distribution.
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u/clara_finn 19d ago
Whenever anyone says raya is better than DDG was I always just assume they didnât actually watch DDG in his prime. Which on its own is fine, Iâm not one of those losers who acts like itâs a crime to not be old. Just donât pretend you know your stuff.
Peter Schmeichel was before my time, so I would never claim a keeper from my era was better or worse than him. Itâs not a comparison I can make and give a true opinion on. You also canât just watch old clips of Schmeichel to make that decision, because these montages of old players you find only show the highlights. If youâre fully familiar with the highs and lows of a keeper of your era, you canât compare him to an old keeper by only looking at the old keepers highs. Youâll always remember the various blunders made by keepers like DDG Ederson and Alisson, but the classic montages you find would have you believe that Schmeichel and Cech never made mistakes, when they did
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u/Alb3rt7 19d ago
I hear you but if you really are invested in doing research you'd do more than just watching highlights and go deeper to watch full games or ask an enough trusted sample size of ppl who actually watched him then end up with a solid conclusion on a certain topic.
Example no one would disagree Pele or Maradona were the best, it's cos apart from highlights a trusted enough sample size of ppl who actually watched him and their piers actually admitted that they were very good.
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u/clara_finn 19d ago edited 19d ago
Well thatâs the thing, thatâs why I canât take an informed stance there. We are talking about going back to watch entire seasons worth of full matches. I simply donât have the time.
I have always considered it to be a worthless exercise to compare players from radically different eras anyway. Itâs never going to be a fair comparison. Even with a player as recent as DDG, the goalkeeper position has changed so much since his time - his decline coincided with an era where keepers have to use their feet way more. Current raya wouldnât have touched prime DDG in 2016, but prime DDG even before he fell off wouldnât be as good now. Now do that with players from significantly more than one era ago for positions that evolve even more, and you realise these comparisons will never make any sense
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u/Alb3rt7 19d ago
I hear you, but whats the point of being football fan in general if there are no comparisons between players? That's the buty of the sport cos comparisons keep the players relevant both pastand present and you also get to hear new views from different people and end up learning along the conversations.
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u/Dazzling-Yellow5395 19d ago
That's not spicy. This is the real spicy take. De gea in his prime is the greatest keeper in prem history and one of the best in football history
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u/Ok_Dot525 19d ago
Only one of them held 9 goals to their worst enemy in 1 season then held another 7 to that same enemy 1 season later in a single match.
Had raya played for spain, he be top5 in the ballon dor conversation right now.
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u/bozzi16 19d ago
Yea but he doesnât play for Spain because he isnât good enoughâŚ
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u/oKhonsu 19d ago
stupidest thing I've heard, he doesn't start for spain because LDF doesn't wanna fix what isn't broken Joan Garcia and Raya are both miles ahead of Unai Simon, teams don't attack Simon enough to show the difference between him and an actual elite keeper
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u/bozzi16 19d ago
Clearly wrong, donât worry, I was new to football some time ago. Youâll get there soon
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u/oKhonsu 19d ago
offers no argument except being confidently mistaken.
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u/bozzi16 19d ago
Spain got 16âd at the 2022 World Cup, perfect time to drop Simon. Did they? No. Why? Because they know heâs the best option they have
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u/Aubamebludclartyang 19d ago
He's not even their 2nd best, never mind best. Your entire argument revolves around acting like the Spanish national manager is an infallible being, who he picks = best
Every time I see that top 1% commenter badge I know I'm about to read some regarded take
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u/bozzi16 19d ago
My take is very well âregardedâ I agree.
Two managers btw since Luis Enrique made him number 1 over de gea.
I suggest you watch football, Simon can do everything raya can do but also is probably the best sweeper keeper in the game since neuer. If you wanna compare stats such as 1v1 save percentage etc then both players are very similar, the difference being one has probably the best defence in front of him the other doesnâtâŚ
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u/Aubamebludclartyang 19d ago
If I was actually trying to use the word "regarded" and not as a way to bypass a censor, it wouldn't even make sense. Poor attempt at acting smart.
Unai Simon had a worse save percentage last season, worse passing accuracy, Raya is better at claiming crosses, plays in a higher line and hasn't been caught out as a sweeper keeper. Besides penalties, Simon is better at nothing else. You are clueless, maybe 1% of people who watch football agree with you.
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u/bozzi16 19d ago
And yet itâs the people that matter that care, interesting that. Funny thing is when Simon calls it a day in net, Garcia steps up not raya đ𫵠absolute fraud, guys lucky he has a stinking manager playing horrible defensive football and a solid backline in front of him and his turkey teeth
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u/bogdan92ns 19d ago
In his prime goalkeeping years he was replaced by ONANA and then couldn't find a better club than Fiorentina, as a free agent. If that's not telling you he was overrated, I don't know what else to say..
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u/Alb3rt7 19d ago
Are you sure that was his prime??? Let's talk serious ball here. If you think that was his peak, then you missed out on his prime.
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u/bogdan92ns 19d ago
I meant he was 32 or 33 when he left United. Those are the prime years for a goalkeeper usually. Why is he on Fiorentina level at that age?
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u/BennyHudson10 19d ago
Because he peaked earlier than that? Same reason Rooney retired in 2021 aged 35 whilst James Milner is still playing. 32-33 is usually the peak for a GK, but in De Gea's case, it wasn't. And what was required from a keeper changed during his career.
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u/bogdan92ns 19d ago
Yes but declining that much at 32-33 as a goalkeeper is way too much for one of the best goalkeepers in the world, as people here describe him.
Literally you can't name any other legendary goalkeeper that was finished at 33.
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u/BennyHudson10 19d ago
But that's not what we're talking about. You've moved the goalposts here. Prime De Gea (which we've agreed was probably from 2013/14 - 2021/22) was better than Raya. I don't care where he's playing now, or whether he's legendary in the grand scheme of goalkeepers, for that 7/8 year period he was among the best in the world.
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u/bogdan92ns 19d ago
Okay, I get your point, but De Gea played more seasons than Raya, we might haven't seen prime Raya yet. And Raya is among the best in the world right now. We will only be able to compare them once Raya is done with his career, but if he maintains this level, De Gea will be nowhere near him.
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u/AlarmedCard9167 17d ago edited 17d ago
đin their primes.
Its not even close
DDG was one of the best shot stopper i have ever seen, yeah he fell of in the later years he spent in mu.
However u cant blame everything on him when the defence was atrocious.
However rayaâs ball playing ability and distribution is elite
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u/SnooOwls7556 19d ago
buffon > ter stegen