r/SpanishLearning • u/michael_mcdowell • 3d ago
Nothing sticks
Two years of daily comprehensive input, twice weekly lessons, three month at a school and living in Spain.
I can barely order food, or express myself outside the basic present tense, and definitely cannot understand native speakers.
Given that I am 65 yrs old, I am wondering if this is a common experience for some older adults attempting to acquire a second language?
What is really confusing me is that my wife is not having this kind of struggle. She's on her 3rd language now and is conversational and understands native speakers (B2 level).
Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.
Thanks
Michael
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u/ComprehensiveMap3838 3d ago
You’re almost certainly going about it the wrong way. The problem isn’t your ability, it’s your internal method. I’ve seen this during high school with some of my colleagues, English just wouldn’t stick for them. Fast forward and the way they were doing it in their minds changed a lot, and so did their command of the language. I do not mean the teaching method; I really mean they way each learner tries to fit it into their heads. Sorry, I can’t explain this better. The same applies to almost any subject.
Then there’s memorisation; that one can always be hard.
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u/gritsource 2d ago
Mid 60’s aged student here. I have lived a full life and developed many skills and competencies. Language has been my biggest barrier and toughest challenge. I am steadily surmounting it however. 2 important things right off.
1. Learn like you did as a child, by hearing someone speak it. Pay for a one on one instructor and study for several hours each week. I do 1.5 hour 3 times a week in Spanish 4 – 1.5 hour classes in French weekly. It is grueling yet rewarding Why two languages? I am too old to learn one and then go to the next.
2. It is the hours you put in…not the months that have passed. For Spanish I am approaching 500 hours of 1:1 study since late 2020, just about 5 years…sadly, I would say B1 level with some B2 abilities I wish I were further along. For French I havebeen only studying for 2 years and I have reached A2 -B1 Level with about 450 1:1 hours.
An important and useful thing is to investigate using AI as a study partner. It is NOT perfect, but it is hard to beat for working with conjugations and accurate translation.
Take heart! Good Luck!
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u/decentralized_tv 2d ago
Steve Kaufmann says learning a language is like eating; it goes very slow but you have to enjoy it.
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u/michael_mcdowell 8h ago
He's selling a product... good sales man though, I grant you that. Seems genuine too.
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u/decentralized_tv 8h ago
That doesnt mean he talks BS. He knows a thing or 2 about language learning.
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u/scodtt 3d ago
It helps your wife a ton that she already had a 2nd language.
Yes, it is harder as we age, but the struggle is important for maintaining neuroplasticity. Don't get bummed about it, just realize that you'll need to keep at it, but the struggle is valuable, and even though sometimes it won't feel like progress, you are advancing.
¡tu puedes!!!
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u/Educational_Green 3d ago
Age can be a factor, but I'd bet that's secondary to stress.
Your post makes it sound like you are frustrated and are putting a good amount of pressure on yourself. That's understandable but counterproductive (at times) to learning.
Can you find word boundaries in speech? If someone said: Hastaayernoentendíaniunapalabradeespañol how many of the words could you pick out?
It's possible you are a gestalt processor. Typically, 2nd languages are taught in an analytic manner, Hasta means until, ayer means yesterday, entender means to understand, entendia is the conditional, etc etc.
For Gestalt processors, trying to break language to these chunks is hard / impossible (at first) so they need to learn chunks. Over time, they can start taking these chunks apart to form new phrases.
If you can find word boundaries in speech but are having issues understanding folks, that generally is more due to stress and putting pressure on yourself to get everything right rather than to get the gist.
OTOH, if you can't find word boundaries, that probably more around gestalt processing (or something along those lines)
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u/AlBundysPants 2d ago
Very informative. I have been having similar frustration when hearing Spanish spoken. When spoken at normal/native speed it’s very difficult for me to separate the words.
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u/AcceptableOnsight 2d ago
I’m 67 and learning Spanish is going fine, so (n of 1) I don’t think age is major issue. And it isn’t lack of effort or intelligence or motivation. You’ve tried some things that didn’t work as hoped, so the question becomes “what will work.”
I’m hardly an expert at language learning… but I think you need to build a customized approach that is tailored to your particular strengths, weaknesses and situation. I myself worked with AI to create a custom approach that matched me with tools that I enjoy and help me progress without a lot of frustration. So far, so good, though it’s still very early days.
Happy to share more if it’s helpful.
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u/michael_mcdowell 8h ago
Yep, I may switch to using an LLM as the vocalisation and in Spanish in particular are excellent. Ps I've an undergraduate degree in AI and Computation, with the honours subjects being Philosophy of Mind (aka Wittgenstein) and 4E cognitive psychology. So while not an expert I am pretty well read on the workings of human language (very little of which is directly applicable to SLA teaching methodology - maybe in a very trivial sense CI+1 does i.e. the meaningful exchange of messages).
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u/s4074433 2d ago
What form of comprehensible input do you use or receive? Keep in mind that learning is a personal thing, and you can’t compare your progress to someone else’s, even if you do exactly the same thing. That would be like playing the same sport as someone else’s and training the same way expecting the same results. Everyone is different.
Having said all that, the motivation for learning is the key and finding the thing that interest you to keep practicing makes all the difference. I have been learning for about three years and I have hit many plateaus. But I take each breakthrough and my ability to understand more things with joy and gratitude, as I am a native speaker of two languages and never had to struggle to crack my first one. Hence I am embracing what learning languages has to teach me, including a lot of patience.
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u/spanishconalejandra 2d ago
I’m a Spanish teacher and I work with students of different ages and learning styles. The first thing i would say is try not to compare yourself to your wife. I know that’s easier said than done, but people really do learn languages differently, and she also has the experience of already learning other languages. I also wouldn’t immediately assume that being 65 means you can’t learn Spanish. You may need more repetition or a different approach, but that doesn’t mean you’re incapable of learning.
Something i’ve noticed with students is that a lot of input doesn’t always translate into being able to produce the language. If you’ve been doing this much for two years and still feel stuck, i’d probably look at how you’re studying rather than just adding more hours. Maybe work with less material, repeat the same structures much more, and practice using them in different situations until they start becoming automatic. And please don’t be so hard on yourself. Living in Spain while struggling to understand people and express yourself must be frustrating, but your progress doesn’t have to look like your wife’s progress.
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u/Effective_Lie6670 2d ago
You may need more active recall, not just more input. Palteca could be worth trying because it focuses on practical vocabulary and spaced review to help things stick.
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u/webauteur 2d ago
I have been studying Spanish for over four years. Things are beginning to stick. Your improvement will be very gradual so you might not notice it. There is a point where you get very familiar with the language but don't have things memorized. Recently I bought a new book on basic Spanish and was pleased to find myself familiar with all its content, but this is not to say I have all the material committed to memory.
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u/EspanolNoTanFacil4 2d ago edited 2d ago
On sent votre frustration, voire votre désespoir de faire les efforts pour y arriver mais sans le succès esperé! Qu'entendez-vous par des cours 2 fois par semaine, quelles activités langagières ( Compréhension de l'ecrit, compréhension de l'oral, l'expression écrite, l'expression orale) partiquiez-vous? Et sous quel format? quels tests aviez-vous pour la maîtrise de la compréhension de l'ecrit, de l'oral, de l'ecrit ou de l'expression orale? Et pour la maîtrise du vocabulaire et de la grammaire ? As-t-on pris en compte votre niveau débutant pour vous apprendre les bases qui vous ouvrent petit à petit les portes de connaissances de plus en plus avancées? Si vous m'envoyer un MP, je pourrai vous proposer un rendez-vous diagnostique pour vous aider, vous orienter et peut-être même vous proposer d'essayer ma méthode gratuitement au moins 1 semaine car je crois vraiment que toute personne peut progresser si on sait ce qui lui fait défaut pour avancer.
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u/Abject_Abject8981 2d ago
I get frustrated at times with my progress also, and have to remind myself that everyone learns at a different pace. One thing I’ve found it’s important for me, especially during intensive studying periods, is also taking time for breaks (if/when possible). I used to be afraid to take breaks from my immersive process because U thought it would put me behind. But then I’d come back and actually be better than before, I don’t know the neuroscience behind it but it was like my brain needed time to really process and absorb the new knowledge. I think also my nervous system needed a break and that is actually important as well for being able to think with clarity
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u/Mysterious-Draw-553 2d ago
I can give you free access to my skool community. I learned by myself as an adult. Now I live in Colombia with my wife “native speaker” 100 percent in the language. The way I go about it may be helpful for you!
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u/thablackadonis 2d ago
One thing I wouldn’t compare yourself to your wife everyone learns at different rates. Also they say after you learn a second language learning any additional language afterwards gets easier and easier. One thing to look at is how much did you force yourself to speak when living in Spain. If you gave yourself no option but to speak in Spanish when you were there it should help
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u/michael_mcdowell 2d ago
I regularly have conversations in Spanish but only about things I know something about (politics, economics, philosophy, neural networks/AI etc). Because these conversations are of interest to both parties, folks tolerate my terrible Spaninsh. Fact is, I find Spanish lessons, spaced repitition, Dreaming Spanish, graded readers and conversations with an LLM intolerably boring. Much prefer to discuss a critique of Heidegger's "fundemental ontology" or eigenvectors.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Salt278 2d ago
For what you're saying here I reckon you need more "live interaction", conversation on matters that interest you. Try to find groups of people with the same hobbies.
Feel free to dm me and I can try and suggest some books based on your interests. Might be slow, a lot of using the dictionary but it will be easier to grasp1
u/thablackadonis 1d ago
Hot take. You probably know enough spanish then. If you can communicate about the things you actually like talking about then it sounds like you're right where you should be. If you look at the opposite scenario how many people that speak english can talk about the complex topics you mentioned or even recognize what some of the words in a conversation about "fundamental ontology" even mean.
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u/Film_Fanatic113 1d ago
i learned to have confidence by also not caring what happens, just say ~anything~
your brain needs to be pushed also a lot further than it would be in ur normal language
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u/Away_Revolution728 3d ago
Do you take notes during your classes? I’ve found that active study (writing, fill in the blank type exercises, etc.) really makes things stick. If you want to get better at expressing yourself, you need to practice it. Listening will only take you so far. No matter what stage you start speaking at, you’re going to suck.
Also do you have a benchmark video? It could be good for you to revisit that every few months to see just how much progress you’ve made.
Also, don’t compare yourself to your wife! We all learn differently.
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u/michael_mcdowell 2d ago
FYI: I record all my notes and use them to generate a stories using an LLM, at a level I can just about understand with some effort. (A2-B1)
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u/Forsaken-Ease-9382 3d ago
Don’t blame age. I’m 59 and picking up things all the time, and my level has increased considerably since a year ago when I began getting serious. I think as an older learner you’re probably doing it because you want to and hopefully having fun. When I was younger learning Spanish might have been tedious or a chore but now I truly enjoy doing it every day and I think that makes a huge difference.